Talk:Elvis Costello/Archive 1

Picture
that is a scary picture! there's got to be something else! eeek! Kingturtle 05:57 Apr 18, 2003 (UTC)
 * I know... there's not much of a selection at the official site, and I wanted one with a clearly visible face (no sunglasses). I suppose either the last one on the first page, or the last one on the second, wouldn't be too bad, but I went with this one. Tuf-Kat
 * I suspect it's exactly as he would have wanted... :) --Taras 02:18, 11 September 2005 (UTC)

POV
This article, like so many biographies of musicians, is written with too much narrative, like something you might find on the artist's Web site. It also editorializes (without citation) on the quality of many songs/records and makes statements about Costello fans in general without support. An example:


 * With a number of poor songs (and even the better songs harmed by murky production), the record was poorly received upon its initial release, and even many ardent Costello fans see Goodbye as his weakest album

One could easily counter this statement by saying that the songs were not poor, the production was fine, the public had bad taste, and Costello fans loved the album, and the article has no evidence to the contrary.--Stellis 18:13, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

Nationality
As Costello stresses that he is Irish not British, and travels on an Irish not British passport, I've described him as being of Irish descent, words he himself uses when called British. FearÉIREANN
 * I came here looking for where EC is actually from, and this is misleading. EC was born in London and his parents are from Liverpool. He may not personally be keen on being called an Englishman, but he certainly seems to be one. Also I can find no reference of EC having an Irish passport or claiming Irish descent - can you cite any? The most plausibly detailed bios I can find are here and here. --Air 4 July 2005 12:42 (UTC)

It sorta seems silly to state that he is of Irish ancestry. You can tell from his real name that he is. You may as well state the descent of every other singer there ever was. But then Elvis Costello may be of other descent as well on his mothers and grandparents side, so if you state one your gonna have to state the others which gets tedious and even more rediculous. So i'm removing the statement on the grounds of its sillyness. 81.151.64.110 14:01, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Costello is also an Italian name, at least around here. Relax. --Fantailfan 00:45, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

I would have thought that anyone called Declan Patrick McManus is fairly obviously going to be of Irish extraction I wouldn't have thought this was a particular controversial thing to say regardless of whether or not that individual has ever explicitly said "I am of Irish descent". But then again I would have thought that someone who was born in London and who's folks are from Liverpool could be called British without much controversy either - since when is it impossible to be both British AND Irish (either in terms of ethnicity or nationality)? Given that anything up to 25% of the British population are of at least partly Irish descent I would've thought that there are plenty of people who are of British nationality but feel connected to some degree to Ireland. These are not 100% exclusive categories. He's a British singer of Irish descent. That seems an obvious way of putting it to me.

Actually, MacManus is clearly a Scottish name. While the Irish and the Scots share a common root heritage, MacManus, like MacAngus (my family name) both derive from the Clan MacInnes. It is not surprising, however, that there is some controversy, since I, for example, claim some heritage on my mother's side of the family, which is American Indian. Perhaps Mr. Costello (MacManus) has a similar tale. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.145.59.90 (talk) 13:25, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

As for the name Costello I always assumed it was one of those Irish names that come from the Spanish sailors who wound up in Ireland after the defeat of the Armada like Cruise/Cruz or De Valera. I could be wrong though? Reynardthefox 08:04, 15 October 2006 (UTC)


 * I have always thought the 'Spanish sailors from the Armada' was a bit of a myth... The Gaelic (so I found) is Oisdealbhaigh or Mac Oisdealbhaigh OR Goisdealbhaigh. I have absolutely no idea how to pronounce it. Costello was the first Norman name to become completely gaelicised and adopted the Mac prefix. link. Family name was De Nangle from combination of Norman surname De Angulo and place name (Angle, Pembrokshire in Wales) where they settled. The Gaelic name came from the given name of the Anglo-Norman Costelo de Angulo. link It is also pronounced COS-tel-low rather than caw-STEL-oh. link. Alternatively, it is Mac Coisdeala (son of Josclyn de Nangle), gaeliscised as (Mac) Coisdeala and anglicised as Costello.
 * My belief that Costello was Italian was based on the two famous "American" Costellos (Lou and Frank), who were Italian and born Cristillo and Castiglia respectively. I still don't know if it authentically Italian or always a reduction from names (like Castiglia) in which the first letter of a double consonant is not pronounced but rather modifies the pronunciation of the preceding vowel. (This theory would also explain the shift to caw-STEL-oh as Italian and Spanish words place the emphasis on the second syllable.)
 * I see that there are those who believe Elvis Costello took his stage surname from Lou Costello rather than, more obviously, his mother's maiden name.
 * Probably more than you needed. Fantailfan 13:25, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
 * As an example of confusing surnames, my surname is of Lithuanian Jewish origin and not, like most of the bearers of the name, Greek. Fantailfan 13:29, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Also, to confuse things more, I think the Italian or Spanish pronunciation of Costello would be Koh-STAY-yo. So its likelihood as a true Italian surname is shaky. Fantailfan 13:31, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Way more than you needed. Fantailfan 13:32, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Cruise is Irish version of the English Crouse. surname De Valera is of Hispano-American origin. Fantailfan 13:36, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

Costello has NEVER said that he was Irish, and he has in the past described himself as English.


 * I hear he's hanging out here a lot in Toronto these days and off on Vancouver Island and Vancouver, so maybe Costello sees himself as more Canadian these days... Canada Jack 03:09, 1 April 2007 (UTC)


 * I heard he once pissed in a bidet, so that makes him French - without any doubt. Errr no, hang on a minute, I got that slightly wrong. He died on the john. Ooooh, sorry... got the wrong Elvis !


 * Derek R Bullamore (talk) 00:19, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

The guy is Irish. He makes a big point that he is absolutely not English. Gingermint (talk) 21:04, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

Hey, there isn't anything wrong at all with being Irish. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Gingermint (talk • contribs) 21:11, 20 November 2009 (UTC)


 * It's amazing that not a single person in this discussion has provided a reference to back up anything they say. I'm tempted to yell "HE'S NORWEGIAN I TELL YOU! NORWEGIAN!". It would make about as much sense. DJ Clayworth (talk) 21:21, 20 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Oh, except this which lists his nearest Irish-born relative as being his great-grandfather. Both parents, and as far as I can tell, all grandparents, were born in England. DJ Clayworth (talk) 21:26, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

King's Shilling
Speaking of his Irishness, does anybody know the politics behind Costello's 'Any King's Shilling'? http://www.elviscostello.info/lyrics/spike.html#any_kings_shilling 89.100.195.42 22:15, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

Elvis Costello changes songs in middle of SNL performance
During a performance on Saturday Night Live, he changed songs in the middle of his performance to play a controversial song he previously agreed not to play, resulting in his banning from SNL. Interesting story, should be worked into main page. HI

http://www.ecostello.com/audience/990906.shtml —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 141.20.103.68 (talk • contribs) 20:59, 28 October 2004 (UTC)

That guerilla performance is of course a significant point in the whole Costello mythology, but this part I don't think is quite right: "(despite having been denied permission to play that song because of its anti-corporate message)" I don't 100% know, but my understanding was simply that he hadn't even asked to play the song, presumably just assuming that he would be denied. I've never heard anything to suggest that he actually asked to play the song.

I find it highly unlikely that SNL would have rejected this song for that reason- as if GE would give a fat rat's patoot about his song. If anything, the anti-corporate message would probably have made SNL staff in those days MORE likely to actually want the song. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 4.224.219.76 (talk • contribs) 14:31, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

GE did not own NBC in 1978, it became a GE subsidiary in the 1980s.

This is certainly speculation on my part, but it seems like Elvis' point was not really so much playing THIS song, as the whole idea of a guerilla act on live network television. It's precisely the transgressiveness of the gesture that was the point- which would have been totally lost if he had simply asked to play the song and gotten an OK. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 4.224.219.76 (talk • contribs) 14:36, 22 December 2005 (UTC) Al Barger www.morethings.com/music/costello
 * Added, then moved to "Radio Radio" song. --Fantailfan 18:43, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

If the original occurence of the SNL song-switch is not going to be a part of the article, then the subsequent section mentioned under the 1990s section mentioning his re-inactment makes no sense: For the 25th anniversary of Saturday Night Live, Costello was invited to the program, where he re-enacted his abrupt song-switch: This time, however, he interrupted the Beastie Boys' "Sabotage", and they acted as his backing group for "Radio Radio."

Article claims the Beastie Boys homage took place during Costello's return to SNL in 1989. Actually, Costello played two tunes from his most recent album at the time, "Mighty Like a Rose." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.255.160.227 (talk) 03:13, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

This leaves the reader looking back to see if he or she missed a section, previous.Hiram357 (talk) 06:36, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

SNL Reference is a Tease Without Explanation
"ecostello.com" link is broken BTW. I remember the show, but wish the reason was reported here. The article reference to this is almost a tease. Lyle (talk) 18:35, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

Ray Charles comment, They Might Be Giants?
The speculative statement
 * "The They Might Be Giants song "Your Racist Friend" may have been written about this incident."

appears to come from one person's opinion on a wiki for pop band They Might Be Giants. The contributor notes there that the assertion "is a stretch". I absolutely agree, to the extent that it isn't plausible or widely supported enough to deserve inclusion here. --Air 4 July 2005 12:48 (UTC)


 * This is fascinating to me. I originally advanced this idea on the TMBG wiki, and later, when I first came to Wikipedia, saw it again here, and wondered if my idea had been transported here, or independently arrived upon. I did NOT, however, include it here, where, I agree, it has no place, in case that was the implication being made above. Ncsaint 00:58, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

Article said a Holiday Inn Bar. I'm from Columbus, and I heard it was at the Newport Music Hall. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Cook31400 (talk • contribs) 21:23, 18 November 2005 (UTC)

Filmography
I think that the category Filmography should be deleted entirely for two reasons: first, Costello is not primarily an actor; second, there is already a link to his entry at the IMDB, so these entries are essentially wastes of space. CenozoicEra 22:31, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

I agree. Chop it. Design 13:43, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

Sorry for the deletions. I make a mistake —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Design (talk • contribs) 08:43, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

Addition to the Filmography suggested - Sans Plomb, a french film - see http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0249935/ for more info, saw it on TV recently, and thought of it when reading the article. [ChrisM 27/3/07]

Unencyclopedic comment
I took out: "The pop encyclopedia, indeed." from the Significance section. Carax 02:46, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

(I'm not the guy above and I don't know HTML)

But

Check out the Elvis Unencyclopedia page all you idiot fans and add to the shit...

Elvis is God and I have some very cool bootlegs if you're interested...

inman.james@gmail.com

Vegetarian?
Hi, can anyone please provide sources that prove that Costello is vegetarian? Thanks. --Amir E. Aharoni 06:48, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

The Simpsons
Wasn't Elvis on an episode of The Simpsons as himself in the episode where Homer goes to rock school? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Adomh (talk • contribs) 10:58, 05 June 2006 (UTC)

"Aloysius"
Guy of Irish Ancestry, picks up a new Catholic name during his youth - this has got to be a confirmation name hasn't it? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 195.195.166.31 (talk • contribs) 12:55, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Yes. There is not much of a mystery to it. I've modified the article along these lines. Gingermint (talk) 21:15, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

Influences
Is anyone interested in creating an 'Influences' section on this artist? I am rather unfamiliar with him, otherwise I would do it myself. Interested to see. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Lebroyl (talk • contribs) 11:20, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Died

Elvis Costello did not die?

Yeah..I had just happened to log onto the page and saw that someone wrote he died in graceland two days ago....when I came back it was gone.....i had to check the history to make sure i wasnt crazy....

Huey Lewis section
I really think that bit about Huey Lewis is totally out of place here. At most, it ought to say something like "Elvis Costello was backed by band X, who also had backed Huey Lewis previously" or something, and then leave the more detailed documentation of what Huey Lewis did with them to the Huey Lewis article. It totally disrupts the flow of the section.

I agree. There's also something weird about the flow of the sentence: "Clover did not exactly become Huey Lewis and The News (Huey Lewis did play with Clover shortly before the recording of My Aim Is True, but he and Sean Hopper, who does play on My Aim Is True, struck out on their own and recruited a new band, mostly from a competing band, Soundhole)." Technically the sentence should be able to stand up on its own without the brackets, but it is a little unstable:  "Clover did not exactly become Huey Lewis and The News". ...and? So what happened to them? Is it relevant? etc. You get my drift.

Artistic Significance section
i've not read the whole article, but the Artistic Significance section strikes me as unencyclopedic and far too biased/worshipful. While i agree that Costello is quite a musician, this is not the place for biased writing. Someone with more knowledge on Mr. Costello than myself should rewrite the section, or perhaps it should be removed altogether.  M ira F irefly  06:27, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

Removed some untrue but interesting additions
Someone had posted this:

"In 1997, he also collaborated with Kevin Nelson on a made-for-tv movie; although it starred the famous soap opera actress, Michelle van Aalst, the film never aired. The movie,tentatively titled Hysterics, folded after contract negotitions between van Aalst, Costello, and Nelson led to the inevitable demise of the production. van Aalst's increasingly bizzare contract additions nearly bankrupt Nelson, and were reported to have caused Costello "significant mental anguish." Nelson is currently shopping a screenplay based on his experiences in a Polish school for manic ennui."

I removed this paragraph as I note no citation for this information. I am the author of the quasi-official Costello biography at elviscostello.info, by the way (not that I'm trying to claim some kind of magisterial authority or anything). I assume that the paragraph was someone's idea of a joke. Pinglis 12:07, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Lead
This article needs a lead. There is literally no lead in this article. The lead is a brief summary of the article that goes before the table of contents. It would be advised to add one.  Kodster  (Willis) (Look what I can do) 23:14, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
 * The previous editor removed it. It's back now. --Complicated Shadows (talk) 05:32, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

"Associated acts" in the infobox
Are all of those acts really notably associated? The list is a good four or five times longer than any I've ever seen in an infobox. -- AvatarMN (talk) 21:00, 23 May 2008 (UTC)