Talk:Emily Hobhouse

Photographs
The article states: "In this article just one photograph of those who suffered and died in the camps has been included (in following paragraph covering the Bloemfontein Camp) - no more than one photograph in the article is included because the quoted words of Emily Hobhouse are descriptive enough in themselves to evoke in the reader a feeling for the grief and pain of those who suffered and died.

More images would be gratuitous and would fail to respect the tragic losses and suffering of those caught up in the tragedy and would not help to show the due sympathy and respect for the feelings of their descendants."

This is clearly a violation of Wikipedia policies concerning photographic documents, neutrality and censorship. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.160.72.231 (talk) 11:19, 6 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Removed as inappropriate tone and adds nothing to the article. Also removed following quote from the same editor:


 * "One European had the following comment on England's conduct with the concentration camps: Great Britain cannot win her battles without resorting to the despicable cowardice of the most loathsome cure on earth - the act of striking at a brave man's heart through his wife's honour and his child's life.."


 * as unsourced. Please re-add if reliable source can be found.


 * Rettens2 (talk) 18:07, 25 October 2010 (UTC)


 * Found source. I was stymied for too long by the quote's inaccuracy as represented here. I only found the source after trying bits and pieces of it on Google. Binksternet (talk) 18:17, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

Is she now 'controversial', or at least was she in 1994?
The SAS Emily Hobhouse article's section on SAS Emily Hobhouse being renamed Umkhonto implied (without clearly and explicitly stating) that she is a controversial figure in today's post-apartheid South Africa, or at least was in 1994. Is this correct, and did she do anything to deserve this (perhaps through allegedly only caring about suffering whites, or something like that)? I note that in 2004, President Thabo Mbeki quoted a 1914 speech of hers that seems critical of Boer attitudes to Black South Africans, but did her actions in 1900-1902 differ from her words in 1914? Or was it just the submarine itself that was comtroversial due to its operational history, perhaps particularly its role in a 1972 raid on Dar Es Salaam? Tlhslobus (talk) 03:49, 2 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Not very controversial. The renaming of SAS vessels was just because they wanted to move away from white person's names. The renaming did not reflect badly upon Hobhouse's reputation. Binksternet (talk) 04:50, 2 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks. But 'Not very controversial' implies 'somewhat controversial'. If that is the case, this article should presumably say so and say why. Alternatively, if she's not at all controversial, the article on the submarine needs rewording, and perhaps this article may need to spell out that the renaming was 'nothing personal' (which in turn might perhaps be seen as implying some element of 'Black racism' in the renaming decision, which might also have to be denied, with reliable sources on these matters problably none too easy to find - though Mbeki quoting here in 2004 might help at least a little on both points). But I know far too little on the subject to feel comfortable making such changes myself. Tlhslobus (talk) 05:11, 2 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Is there any substance to the claim that she is not controversial. Simply stating she was not without backing up the assertion means nothing. Tlhslobus brings in evidence that there is some controversy. That means it deserves further investiagation not off the cuff statements.208.54.40.200 (talk) 09:52, 24 January 2014 (UTC)
 * That Mbeki quoted her yet approved the renaming shows that majoritarian (black, if you will) reactionary (if not racist) sentiment was responsible for the boilerplate, reflexive removal of her name and the renaming to SAS Umkhonto, IMO, although thankfully they didn't keep to gender and rename it "SAS Winnie Mandela". Quis separabit?  19:49, 24 January 2014 (UTC)

Naming warship after 'Peace activist'
Also, was there ever any controversy about the appropriateness of 'honouring' a supposed 'peace activist' by naming a warship after her? Tlhslobus (talk) 06:56, 10 March 2013 (UTC)

Assessment comment
Substituted at 14:26, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

Quotes too long
The extracts from her writings are excessive. They should form a separate wiki page. Valetude (talk) 05:35, 14 December 2017 (UTC)
 * I agree, far too long, and not adequately referenced. No indication of any elisions either. DuncanHill (talk) 13:09, 29 May 2019 (UTC)

Edit required - Rachel Isabella Steyn
The entry has a line "was collected by Mrs. President Steyn (who was to remain a lifelong friend) and sent to Hobhouse for this purpose. "

Although she was married to M.T. Steyn, last president of the Free State Republic, her given names were Rachel Isabella (Tibbie). Could this be edited please?

There's a detailed entry on her life in the Afrikaans Wikipedia (https://af.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rachel_Isabella_Steyn). Her name also appears in the English entry on President M.T. Steyn https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martinus_Theunis_Steyn NoiseJammer (talk) 16:44, 16 May 2019 (UTC)