Talk:Emoticon/Archive 4

Add Link on mane subtitles
Add: Main article: List of common emoticons

In every subtitle that has a list of emoticons

Caracho (talk) 19:45, 17 December 2008 (UTC) Caracho 2008-12-17

-_-
Means "Well Duhh" often used in the West. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.151.219.175 (talk) 17:46, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Can you prove that? Reliable   Forever talk 14:49, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

normative isues in lists
Hi All, ^______________________________^

I was pretty confused over the recent cleanup of the emoticon page. I thought the tables of emoticons that were in previous versions of the page Emoticon, were just fine and in fact I became accustomed to them being there at my leisure. Until today, I had no idea that someone had moved those tables to the page List_of_common_emoticons.

Look at what Mel Etitis said in his post 'Recent clean-up':

"this is suppsoed to be an article on emoticons,       not a directory of them."

That is awfully Normative. I can't imagine anyone being the authority on emoticons or the proper repository of them. In fact, the move was just confusing to me. I thought the page Emoticon was a fine place to actually find emoticons. That detracted from my 'wiki-experience,' and look, I dont even work here, im just a normal web-surfer... Thus, I believe Mel's explanation in this regard is an example of the Naturalistic_fallacy.

Also look at what Mike said in 'I think some changes need to be made on Common Examples':

"A lot of these really aren't that "common".       I believe the list either needs to be shortened        or expanded to accurately reflect the use of        emoticons on the internet."

That line of reasoning has ambled away from reality, perhaps fantastically. I cannot image a better way to collect the accurate use of emoticons on the web than to have a wikipedia page where people can contribute emoticons to the collective knowledge base! Think of the solution to that dilemma: should we have a table of emoticons and their weigthed usages too? Who amongst you would propose to empirically acertain those weights? Should such a table be inserted into the page, Emoticon or perhaps under List_of_common_emoticons, or even better, a new page entitled Comparison_of_Emotional_Icons.

Mike, come on: "A few examples for illustrative purposes are fine, but the situation had become silly. Moreover, the lists were a magnet for anons adding their personal favourites, often used only by them and their friends."

That's what an emoticon is...

Emoticon
Emotion Icon?

69.221.114.176 21:58, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Uh what do you mean by emoticon icon? Reliable   Forever talk 14:47, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

ツ
anyone knows where the use of ツ came from? → Aza Toth 20:09, 5 January 2007 (UTC)


 * It's just a single Japanese letter, so I'd assume it's simply a case of non-Japanese speakers misusing it. 75.153.221.227 06:14, 20 February 2007 (UTC)


 * It's usually used as a handwave. Sort of like (^_^)/, except it's (^^)ツ. The dashes are supposed to represent movement -- febOBJECTION! 15:54, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

It is a japanese symbol for...the letter-phrase "Tsu" in Katakana

So if you spelled "Tsuki" It'd start with the ツ symbol.

I'm a freak when it comes to Japanese so....wee

And it is.....but in a way, it's the English-person's way of modifying =) or :)

Okay, well...just thought I'd say that. go to http://www.magnifythelord.org/cma/Nihongo_files/image011.gif for other symbols --Mandirjs 00:13, 28 March 2007 (UTC)


 * It's also sometimes used in the half-width form with ノ(no) like this: (^_^)ﾉﾂ but ｼ (shi) looks better than ﾂ (tsu) in that case (^_^)ﾉｼ ·:RedAugust 13:09, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

Dumbstruck Smiley
I'm new to this, so could someone change the label of the dumbstruck smiley back to "shrugs" or at least include it in the label? It is way more fitting than dumbstruck. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.38.24.153 (talk • contribs) 07:13, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

Animated Emoticon Generators
Here is a good link with animated emoticon generators, maybe it should be included - www.mywlm.com/emoticons —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.172.249.4 (talk • contribs) 18:49, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

Verbal Mashup
The word is portmanteau. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Teamcoltra (talk • contribs) 03:08, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

I think some changes need to be made on Common Examples.
A lot of these really aren't that "common". I believe the list either needs to be shortened or expanded to accurately reflect the use of emoticons on the internet. Basically, I think the problem arises from the fact that different groups or cliques across the internet (and by that I mean large groups not simply circles of friends) use entirely different sets of emoticons that they consider common. Point in question: the commonality of something like "c:". Around my stomping ground, I see it being used quite frequently as a sort of variation on the traditional ":)" smiley. I understand why the addition of this could be considered OR, but at the same time I don't think lists made by instant messaging services are really accurate sources.  Personally, I support expansion of the list or creation of a new one.  Your opinions please. —PokiToki (talk • contribs) 22:55, 22 February 2007.
 * I mostly agree - this particular article draws a lot of OR & Ascii art as well as valid but less than "common" examples - people all want their example in the list, which is supposed to be examples only, not comprehensive. I personally feel the answer is to remove nearly all the "examples" from this article and create a separate "Lists of Emoticons" article with sections for various types - the benefits: the new article would be more friendly to less common additions & would draw them away from here --Invisifan 01:33, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

I agree. There are emoticons out there that some people have no knowledge of, like @:) (man with a turban), which could also be included. Wiki zilla  ( Talk )signme! 20:58, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

There is one other emoticon that I would suggest could be included here as I see it frequently - the wink ;-) Having a separate list of emoticons is better than cluttering up this page. --Mike 01:15, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

Erm ... "Bemused Indian woman"? -jklp 124.180.217.226 01:50, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Lol I cant believe you guys left out ,,,^..^,,, (cat looking over a fence[Spying])I really do think that there should be a dedicated emoticon page. I was wondering though,is this already taken, (All in all I mean),I made it up from my little bro's favorite TV show ( =^_^=, Naruto, Crazy berserker[and happy about it]) Hope you can help Archangel, king of run-on "side-notes", W00T!!! ,,,^..^,,, ( + )

Smiley
Smiley links here, why is this article not then incorporated in Smiley or renamed Smileys using computer keys? What on earth is an emoticon other than a smiley? Captain Scarlet and the Mysterons 17:37, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Patents
Patents related to emoticons are controversial and of public interest. See List_of_software_patents.--Nowa 22:55, 24 March 2007 (UTC)


 * But edits need to be explained (at least in an edit summary) and given proper citations. --Mel Etitis ( Talk ) 23:16, 24 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Mel, Thanks for your note.  Is there anything in particular that needs a citation that isn't already cited?--Nowa 01:32, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

The problem is that when an edit is completely unexplained, and appears to contain no citation, it's much more likely to be reverted. In this case, the citation was embedded in the paragraph in a non-standard (not incorrect) form, and I missed it. That's one reason that always using an edit summary is a good idea (aside from courtesy to other editors). --Mel Etitis ( Talk ) 12:00, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

Animated Emoticon examples
I added some new animated emoticons examples. The emoticons are from commons.wikimedia.org and licensed under GNU free license, they are in fact designed by me so copyright is approved for use on wikipedia. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Paulwhiteway (talk • contribs) 09:23, 2 April 2007 (UTC).


 * Their addition to the article was unexplained and unsourced, as I explained each time I removed them. Why should your designs be included as examples of usage?  The article isn't a gallery for people's emoticons. --Mel Etitis  ( Talk ) 10:07, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

the current examples of animated emoticons aren't even emoticons. I think we need some much better examples of emoticons/smileys. I dont care who's they are but the current examples are very lame. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.206.54.159 (talk • contribs) 10:29, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

the asian smileys~
where did the examples of the japanese emotes go? T_T i used those~ —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.124.79.156 (talk) 19:26, 26 April 2007 (UTC).

I have the same question. Where did they go? - --149.101.1.131 20:23, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Ya me too, where'd it go? Right now, I'm using the past verison for them. 125.238.122.130 06:28, 27 April 2007 (UTC)


 * I restored them for now, but the fact remains that the tables need to be cleaned up per above. WP:RS needs to be taken with a grain of salt in these cases, because in a strict interpretation, WP:RS asks for sources such as the NYTimes or an offical website--we're talking about emoticons here. However, original work is strictly prohibited. So while WP:RS can be enforced unilaterally in most cases, here we need more community consensus. Per above, I think we should extend the tables to reflect common usage accurately, perhaps with sleeker more streamlined tables (or none at all; non-table lists), perhaps some high-tech hide/show-able tables. As for rarer emoticons, we must beware original work, though not necessarily by enforcing WP:RS--if a user has never seen it, have them post a query on the talk page, and if no one else has seen it before either, then it will be deleted. --gwc 01:15, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

Recent clean-up
As I said in my edit summary, this is suppsoed to be an article on emoticons, not a directory of them. A few examples for illustrative purposes are fine, but the situation had become silly. Moreover, the lists were a magnet for anons adding their personal favourites, often used only by them and their friends.

There might be a case for an article like List of common emoticons, or something of the sort, though I'm not enthusiastic. --Mel Etitis ( Talk ) 15:00, 30 April 2007 (UTC)


 * I copied the tables that you deleted, as well as some of the text from this article and put it in the new List of common emoticons article. Now, I'll admit that I haven't actually done any editing on Wikipedia before, other than a few typo fixes here and there. I'm also not claiming any of the content. I hope it's alright. Suiken 02:58, 1 May 2007 (UTC)


 * It needs some work, but I've added a couple of templates to attract attention. As I said, I'm not convinced it's needed, but there you are. --Mel Etitis  ( Talk ) 08:53, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

Given the clean up, the common emoticons subsection now only contains two which have already been explained previously in the article, and thus the section would now appear completely superfluous? --80.175.250.218 12:08, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

It is highly likely that most visitors to the Emoticon article come there to decypher some emoticon that they are not yet familiar with. One could convincingly argue that utility would be better served if the article entitled Emoticon was devoted to emoticons themselves and not the history of emoticons. At the minimum, the article should give equal weight to both needs and not toss the most useful part of the article under the rubric of "cleaning up".

deviantArt emoticons
There should be a section on deviantArt emoticonists such as sereneworx, melonhead-emotion, and koffeeben 139.142.6.101 10:39, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

Bierce invented a smiley no later than 1912
 seems like reliable documentation that Ambrose Bierce invented a kind of smiley no later than 1912. But he was, sadly, like Gregor Mendel, ahead of his time.
 * Brilliant Bierce, as always. - Tenmiles 02:51, 6 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Google Scan of Bierce invention. The actual book didn't render it using ascii characters, but created a whole new character not on our modern keyboard. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.153.241.162 (talk) 19:05, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Why redirected from Less Than Three
Why does Less Than Three redirect here?67.176.141.168 02:14, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
 * I guess because <3 is the "heart" emoticon --80.175.250.218 12:18, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
 * There is no reference to <3 or "less than 3" in the article. It should either reference it or the redirect should be removed.  Jons63 12:25, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
 * The <3 Emoticon is actually in List of common emoticons the redirect should be pointed there, but I do not know how to change a redirect. could someone fix this? Jons63 12:30, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, I guess I have done that --Dumarest 22:28, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

History
An early example of an emoticon is in the book, Dr. Syntax, by William Combe, Frederick Warne and Company, 1878 (approx.), pp 115, Bedford Street, Strand, London. About mid-page the typesetter inserted the wink ;-) at the end of a line. Sidi j mahtrow 15:09, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

Earliest ASCII emoticon, not CMU but U of ILL on the PLATO system
I will have to digup my posts on PLATO NOTES system, but I was using :) and :-) as a smiley when I was at the U of I back in 1978 on the PLATO system, and I was shown it by others so it had been around a long time before 1982. When I have a post I will place it here, but 1982 was several years after it had already been in use on the PLATO system.

Both being used in chat (TERM-Talk) and in discussion groups (NOTES) as well as email.

Not sure why someone from the University of Illinois hasn't posted a response to this, and the claim of 1982 from CMU. Funny thing is that CMU had a PLATO system in the late 70's and early 80's as I recall and that's most likely where it was first seen by the CMU folks.

Kdbaumann 19:45, 24 June 2007 (UTC) After you've gone and tidied up, this will probably annoy someone, but I saw this recently: - ‹(•¿•)> - not sure what the emotion is though! Keithcaley 14:47, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

Ethan (talk) 16:01, 27 November 2008 (UTC) We were also using emoticons in email and the bulletin board "bboard" on the LOTS time sharing computer at Stanford while I was an undergraduate there, and thus before 1981. I doubt we can find backup tapes to support that, though.
 * I heard teh NPR interview about the 'man who invented the smiley emoticon' and I was slamming my hand on the steering column from sheer hopelessness. It is lies and a rewrite of history and I can't get my hands on the Apple II BBS floppy backup to prove he's lying. Alatari (talk) 12:45, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

Western Style - Common examples
the example of a smile with a tongue hanging out it depicted as :p... but I have only seen it used as :P. Does anyone else think this is the more common usage and that it should be changed, or at least noted? 24.68.249.197 19:31, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Ah, yeah. BTW, I think this emoticon, smiley with the tongue hanging out, it is sometimes :-P and ;-P. Regards, Blake3522 11:18, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Well I've had friends use :p. It may have been unintentional. --M1ss1ontomars2k4 (talk) 17:03, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

Eight Equals Uppercase Dee
What does "8=D" mean? --Blake3522 11:18, 20 July 2007 (UTC)


 * It's a crude interpretation of a phallus. ·:RedAugust 13:12, 4 August 2007 (UTC)


 * It is sometimes a grin emoticon. --Blake3522 13:33, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

Use of smiley to show emotion
For example, I am not one to use the smiley ":)", but I only use it when necessary to show that I am not mad at someone. For example:

Thanks, but I didn't want you to play that song as a request from me on your radio show.

That message would come off as me being annoyed or angry at the DJ when in fact I feel no such way. I cannot see any way of rewording that sentence to make it come off friendlily, but with an emoticon, it can be done.

Thanks, but I didn't want you to play that song as a request from me on your radio show :).

The emoticon adds the emotion needed to this sentence, and I think the article could use such an example. The article has a lot about the types of emoticons, but doesn't have much about how emoticons can be used to change message meanings. -- Codell Talk 07:12, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

"Sometimes smiley (^^) is missunderstood - people thinking it represents eyebrows."
what the hell is that suposed to mean? 0.o --TiagoTiago 09:15, 19 August 2007 (UTC)


 * I guess that some readers might regard this as raised eyebrows, while the writer may have meant it to represent normal eyes.
 * It may also be misinterpreted as female breasts, depending on the amount if "dirty phantasy" in the mind of the reader :-)
 * --80.134.39.145 21:03, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
 * So, like a raised eyebrow, as in (-^) ?
 * ~The Unwanted Comment A Dirge for her, the doubly dead. In that, she died so young. 00:47, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

I might be able to understand if there is no mouth, like in the example, (It really shouldn't even havethe "face"->, this is how its supposed to be -> ^_^ ,'Cause if your gonna go anime ,You might as well do it all the way) But boobs LOL!, now thats just messed up. Archangel, king of run-on "side-notes"  W00T!!! ,,,^..^,,, ( + )

"Emoticlips?" Whatever.
I suggest "Emoticlips" be expunged from the page. It does not meet Wikipedia's criteria for importance, and is essentially blatant advertising placed there, most likely by the ad agency that created the things, in a desperate attempt to make them the "next cool thing". Gregly 20:08, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

The majority of this article is not of any particular note. Wikipedia shouldn't be a list of emoticons. Honestly people. 70.109.152.49 (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 15:25, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

:(
I recall some emo-electronica band called ":(", could that be included? undefined N  a  N  14:26, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

New Emoticon?
I've been seeing people using the following emoticon in some games, swapping between the 2 images formed:

(\_/)    (\_/) (\(^_^)/)    /)(\  ("")("")  ("")("")

Should it be included? E fansay--- T / C /Sign Here Please 09:02, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
 * being multi-lined I belive it is more an example of ascii art than of emoticon --TiagoTiago 19:25, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

I don't know exactly where to post it, but I have a good one a friend taught me a long time ago =+ {/D////}  <====Ho ho ho, it's Santa!

pronunciation key and stuff like that, plz?
I would like to ask for the pronunciation key and the other pronunciation related stuff to be added to this article (me and a friend were talking about how to pronounce "emoticon", and couldn't come to a conclusion whether it was "eh-mow-tee-con" or "eh-mow-tai-con" or somthing else, so we looked it up on wikipedia just to discover no pronounciation info was present in the article :/ --TiagoTiago 19:22, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
 * It's pronounced e-mot-ih-cahn or e-mote-ih-cahn. ;) Reliable   Forever talk 17:39, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

Variation
In the section Variation, the following self contradictory sentance needs to be fixed: can all be used interchangeably, sometimes for subtly different effect. If they can be 'used interchangeably', they cannot at the same time have 'subtly different effect'. 207.69.137.15 03:10, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

Broken table?
The table goes all the way to the bottom of the page, pushing all the text over. I'm only an egg around here, could somebody else fix it? I tried, but couldn't make it right. Seems like it doesn't like a character in the table. 75.71.37.218 01:36, 9 November 2007 (UTC)