Talk:Ender's Shadow

Anton's Key?
If this article is redirected from Anton's Key, should it have some explanation of it? Kimun 00:58, 11 Mar 2005 (UTC)

The Book Ender's Shadow uses the term Anton's Key many times, so yes it would seem pretty dumb if no one had explained it yet. If your really so botherd by it, add it to the page. --Jln Dlphk (talk) 22:26, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Wow
This book sounds awesome. Ender's Game was a blast from the future.

Space kids would dig in for sure.

Its not as good as the first one. It all ends up seeming like the formic war was fake and just the pretense for global war and some continental unions or some such trash. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.102.139.175 (talk) 06:40, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Preference
Actually, I liked Ender's Shadow better than Ender's Game. Though Ender's Game was the book that I liked least in Cards whole Ender series. One thing about Shadow though, it seems to assume you've already read Ender's Game, so when I read Game after reading Shadow, it cleared up a lot of things about the flash suits andother things concerning the war game.Wiz kid 23:04, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

Orson Scott Card really is amazing if he can satisfy so many different people. Personally, I enjoyed Ender's Game. It is my favorite book in the series. Ender's Shadow is awesome too, and I'll improve this article if I ever find the time. Bean's series is too good to have an article like this.--Sol Kiske 20:30, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

Wikify Template
I added the wikify template to this article as I believe it needs to be expanded and formatted better to match the rest of the Ender book articles. Unfortunately, I don;t have the time to work on it right now so I tagged it in hopes that someone else will. --SSTwinrova 22:30, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

Revisionist? Uncomfortable joins between the two books.
I love both EG and this book, but I do find the revisionism in Ender's Shadow a little off-putting. Because Card has to make this book fit in with the original, he often tries to manipulate the dialogue, or our perception of it, eg taking something that Bean said seriously in EG and now making out that it was actually sarcastic. Some of the plot "glueing" is annoying, in EG we see that Ender considers Bean to be only good at using small forces like a scalpel, but in ES everyone knows that Bean is the best at everything (apart from personal relationships), so Card invents some other reason why Ender didn't use Bean much (ie because Rackham had deliberately sown the seeds of doubt in Ender's mind). Anyway, I don't know how Card could have done much better given the task at hand. A great book anyway.Leeborkman 07:03, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

I fully agree that there are serious inconsistencies. For instance, it seems to be directly stated that the Dr Device in EG is a beam type weapon, not a missile or projectile. Whereas in ES it seems to be some type of payload/warhead system that must be delivered. This was also a contrast in Children of the Mind (or whichever was the one that had the Lusitania fleet incoming.) Further, there are serious differences in characterizations in certain scenes. Such as when Bean and Ender confront each other in the hall. I understand that there was a POV difference but some things seem to be narrated differently as well, perhaps as a retcon. Also, it seemed to me that either Petra was lying to Bean about what happened in the hallway or that again Card changed it retroactively for us, because her version seemed contradictory to what was in EG.Lazarus Plus (talk) 12:51, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

What about in Ender's Game when Bean thinks about himself being homesick(Page 224 or chapter 12 towards the end)? I though Bean was glad to be away from Rotterdam.

Bean
Is Bean really a particularly important supporting character in Ender's Game? This is particularly revealed in Ender's Shadow. I think it's valid to just call him 'largely peripheral' in Ender's Game. QueenStupid 04:50, 29 September 2006 (UTC)


 * As someone who read EG many times before Ender's Shadow was ever written, I can't agree with you there, QueenS. Bean is at least as important as Petra, Dink or Alai, even in EG.  Bean is the one soldier that Ender The Commander befriends, and also the one soldier that Ender mistreats, because even in EG Ender realises that Bean and he are so alike.  Ender places great trust in Bean, even in EG, making him a very special Toon Leader.  Of course, in ES, Card tries to persuade us that Bean was even more important that Ender ever guessed in EG, but even so, Bean is undoubtedly a major character.  In my opinion, Ender, Valentine and Graff are the main characters, because we see through their eyes, but among all the rest, Bean is emphasised as special, if only as an ironic narrative device to highlight the change in Ender from pint-sized launchie to uber-soldier.  What do you reckon? Leeborkman 05:02, 29 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Well, I have read othe of the ender books and really, it depending on which one you read, and your perspective, it determines how to characterize the characters (pun not intended?). In Shadow, it is told from Beans POV (Point of View), so he should be the major character and Ender should be an important character (maybe even main) but not the most important. Just as Ender's Game is told from Ender's POV, thus making Bean a less important character, but still important.--Cadet_hastings 01:07, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

The Reason That Ender Cannot Know
There is a difference between the reason that the IF does not tell Ender that he is commanding the fleet throughout the 3rd war in EG and ES. In EG, it is that only a perfectly empathetic commander will be able to understand and thereby defeat the buggers, but a perfectly empathetic commander will not be willing to defeat them, so he must be kept in ignorance. In ES, it is that a commander that knows that he is sending men to their death will be too hesitant to command effectively. Is this an inconsistency, or is Card depicting two different perspectives?

I would say it is two different perspectives. In EG, the theme of empathy for the buggers is persistent throughout, but ES has a much more direct tone, as for Bean, the idea of choosing who lives and dies is odd, and he doesn't want to be like the bullies, particularly Achilles who had that choice. For Bean, empathy with the buggers doesn't seem possible, so he is more afraid of hesitance.

Setting
The article states the book takes place around the year 2170. Is this true? I've read every book in both series twice (the first ones thrice) and I don't remember any specific dates. I believe it even mentions that they're on a different calender system, though I could be forgetting something. Is it explicitly stated in the book that it's ~2170? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.49.23.51 (talk) 02:09, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

So This Is The Reform One
Ender’s Shadow 2603:8001:A303:1400:A01C:107D:F95C:821A (talk) 22:05, 3 April 2024 (UTC)