Talk:Eritrean Defence Forces

Untitled
Needs a map to show its mentioned strategically important geographic location. Pimlottc 19:41, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

The Reference of one dosent work and should be changed from this

http://www.worldairforces.com/countries/eritrea/ERIaircraft.htm

to this

http://www.worldairforces.com/Countries/eritrea/ERIaircraft.html

The "C" in countries.

The article lists Eritrea's active strength at 202,000. Yet, it also states that there are 300,000 Eritrean soldiers stationed along the Ethiopian border. —Preceding unsigned comment added by FTFKyle (talk • contribs) 22:17, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

In 2001 Eritrea had the largest military in the world per capita?
In the list of countries by number of active troops, it shows that North Korea has a higher active troops per thousand citizens, meaning higher active troops per capita. Puzzled, I checked the source in this article and found that it does not include North Korea. Anyone have any ideas as to what to do? --Hamster X (talk) 12:41, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Name Change
"Military of Eritrea" is not the official name of the Eritrean Military. I say that this article be renamed "Eritrean Defense Forces", since that is the actual name.

Reenem (talk)

wikileaks
I was reading through the wikileaks cables on eritrea and there is some great insight on the EDF. I don't know if someone wants to incorporate them in here but there good — Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.105.67.61 (talk) 21:18, 4 September 2011 (UTC)

POV tag
Sorry, but this reads like it was written by a member of the Eritrean defense forces. There are a number of dubious statements, among them that the Eritrean military's strategic importance derives from Eritrea's location on the horn of Africa (in reality, nobody outside of the Horn of Africa besides the US gives a flying $$$$ about what the Eritreans do, and the Americans only because the Eritreans have been funding terrorists), or that maintaining a force of 300,000 soldiers at the border is more difficult for Eritrea than for Ethiopia due to Eritrea's smaller population, which is frankly ridiculous. Quodfui (talk) 02:57, 12 November 2012 (UTC)

Quodfui, I'm not sure you've looked to see where Eritrea is located. It is on the Red Sea and its southern border helps to form the 2nd smallest choke point (behind the Suez Canal) for 8% of the world's shipping. Millions of dollars of trade cruises along the Eritrea border daily, so yes it is considered strategically important location by most of the world's great powers. PolSciProfessor (talk) 02:17, 15 November 2013 (UTC)

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Talk pages are available
Just a reminder that WP:TALK pages are available to sort out edit conflicts, such as the recent edit war on this page. You both have valid points to make. Seeing each other's point of view should lead to consensus edits. There is more space on the talk pages than in edit summaries, although edit summaries are a minimum. Talk pages also allow structure in discussions. Boud (talk) 00:01, 18 February 2021 (UTC)

Tigray conflict
I removed the accusations against Eritrea in Tigray from this article since it’s not the right article for such claims. The accusations against Eritrean army comes from a party involved in the Tigray conflict which are not verified claims. According to Eritrea it denies involvement. Even if there exist involvement, it’s not correct to cite non verified sources coming from parties involved in the conflict, per WP:NPOVS. There exist a Tigray War article where such views is more appropriate. Leechjoel9 (talk) 18:44, 26 February 2021 (UTC)


 * Mesfin Hagos used to be the Minister of Defence of Eritrea. I haven't seen any indication that he is "a party to the Tigray conflict". A list of the EDF divisions that entered Tigray Region that is attributed to Mesfin, former Minister of Defence, seems reasonable to me. We could add a statement by the Eritrean government saying that it has not sent any divisions into Tigray Region, just as we could add a similar statement by the North Korean government in a similar situation. But even Amnesty International, based on 41 witness reports, says that there is no doubt that the EDF is present in Tigray Region. Mulu Nega, head of the Transitional Government of Tigray, says that the EDF should leave Tigray Region. The Ethiopian Human Rights Commission, a federal Ethiopian government agency, says that the presence of the EDF in the northwest and eastern zones of Tigray Region "add to the challenge" of trying to administer the region.


 * Sehin Teferra is not a party to the Tigray War; as a pan-Ethiopianist, she would be more likely to be biased in favour of the federal government's official line - to say nothing at all about the EDF presence in the Tigray Region or to deny it - rather than against the federal government. This makes her an especially good source for the point on EDF rape in the Tigray War.


 * Regarding which article to have this information in: someone reading an article about the EDF wants to know information about the EDF and will not necessarily search in Tigray War to find out information about the EDF. If s/he is unaware of the Tigray War, then s/he won't think of checking there. Given the sources that we have available, it would be misleading to say nothing about the overwhelming number of reports from different sources about EDF heavy involvement in the Tigray War. The presence of divisions is a factual type statement; if you can provide us with an Eritrean government statement claiming that particular divisions were located at particular bases in Eritrea during certain dates, then that would help in NPOV. Other sourced information about the structure of the EDF, more generally, would be useful. This is an encyclopedia! Boud (talk) 21:31, 26 February 2021 (UTC)


 * All of the individuals mentioned are in some way connected to this conflict in some way, whether it be political or military. According to some there exist accusations against Eritrea, according to others there exist no involvement for instance, see the statements made by Secretary-General of the United Nations-Antonio Guterres or former US United States Secretary of State- Mike Pompeo in a time where the conflict was as it peak. I don’t think you can present one view, and leave out the other, especially in this sort of article. This article is also not the main place for such views, content on here should be relevant, verified and be about the topic, which is the Eritrean defence force. Leechjoel9 (talk) 22:06, 26 February 2021 (UTC)


 * Sources being in some way connected to the war does not exclude them for use in Wikipedia.
 * Please show specifically why you think that the following are sources that should be ignored. Vague generalities will not help this discussion converge.
 * Mesfin Hagos, former Defence Minister of Eritrea - see above;
 * Amnesty International, link above;
 * Mulu Nega, link above;
 * the Ethiopian Human Rights Commission, link above;
 * Sehin Teferra, link above.
 * It is you who has chosen to not add the alternative points of view, not me.
 * Pompeo was a minister of Donald Trump, who made false statements about 30,000 times during his four-year presidency.
 * You're most welcome to add a sourced, dated statement by Guterres declaring the absence of the EDF from Tigray Region.
 * Boud (talk) 22:34, 26 February 2021 (UTC)


 * What I meant with “both views” was your edits do not even present the views of neutral parties, and of course not the denying of the accused party (Eritrea), but also that the PM of Ethiopia to this day denies involvement. We could list several statements by parties involved (acussed or not) to this discussion, either way their statements are not relevant for this article. This sort of issiues should be discusse in the Tigray war article. Leechjoel9 (talk) 00:52, 27 February 2021 (UTC)


 * Feel free to add alternative, sourced points of view for WP:NPOV. Since you have referred to Guterres earlier, see UN alleges war crimes in Ethiopia’s Tigray, urges Eritrea exit, which even in the subtitle states Army divisions are a detail which is more natural in an article on the EDF rather than the main Tigray War articles. Boud (talk) 19:55, 10 March 2021 (UTC)

EDF article is grossly biased
If the article is about EDF, then the EDF as a military be desrcribed ie tanks, training, battalion, divisions etc not a biased article showing only criticism of EDF in the history section.Facttell (talk) 18:48, 14 March 2021 (UTC)
 * The information about "tanks, training, battalion, divisions" would definitely be useful, but should be sourced. Please add it! Boud (talk) 11:11, 15 March 2021 (UTC)


 * I plan on deleting anything which is biased against the intent of the article. If the information is just added to portray a certain biased view specifically the image of EDF being bad!Facttell (talk) 03:34, 15 March 2021 (UTC)
 * The is to show the EDF according to whatever is known about it; there is no intent to show it either positively or negatively. We do not add information based on whether it makes a military organisation look good or bad. We add information based on whether it's relevant and properly sourced. Boud (talk) 11:11, 15 March 2021 (UTC)


 * Mesfin Hagos is an unreliable source as he is interested in taking over power in Eritrea. Also any source from TPLF is unreliable and will be contested continuously!Facttell (talk) 05:06, 15 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Whether or not Mesfin wishes to gain political power in Eritrea is irrelevant to using him as a source. The information is attributed to him and the reader can read Mesfin's article to judge whether or not to believe him. Official sources from the EDF itself or from Eritrean government sources are very likely to be biased in favour of the EDF, but that's not a reason for removing them. Right now they're absent because we don't have that info. An EDF website for official info would be a good place to start. Boud (talk) 11:11, 15 March 2021 (UTC)


 * That is a complete falsehood, I’ve seen the deletion of Eritrean government sources from articles. The fact you are giving Mesfin Hagos and third party NGOs and Westerners who have not even been in the country for decades if at all undue credibility is the problem here. At this point anything unconfirmed with dubious sources especially paid yellow journalists will be deleted.Facttell (talk) 11:45, 15 March 2021 (UTC)
 * "" Please give the specific diffs of the edits that removed information from this article that you claim were sourced to the Eritrean government. Please also read WP:NPOV. Welcome to Wikipedia! Boud (talk) 15:04, 15 March 2021 (UTC)
 * This article is about EDF and not what the smear campaign of TPLF and HRW and Amnesty international write! Third party colluding with TPLF is completely biased against Eritrea and EDF! Eritrean and Ethiopian governments have already stated no presence of EDF in Ethiopia! Stop trying to spread disinformation on this article.Facttell (talk) 15:52, 15 March 2021 (UTC)


 * you were not happy with the other sources, so I provided uncontroversially independent sources. I again strongly recommend that you read WP:NPOV and WP:VERIFIABILITY. today on this article. I also strongly recommend that you read WP:3RR and WP:CENSOR. Wikipedia describes itself as the encyclopedia that anyone can edit, but we need to have policies and guidelines in order for that to be possible. Please take the time to read these. Please also read the assume good faith policy.


 * I reverted because Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch are uncontroversially reliable sources for human rights investigations and added the best point of view of the Eritrean government that I have found so far; this shows what WP:NPOV means in Wikipedia. If you can find a more direct denial by the Eritrean government, then please add that statement, with a source, rather than removing well-sourced, relevant information. Boud (talk) 16:37, 15 March 2021 (UTC)
 * On their own Wikipedia pages there are multiple criticism from multiple groups and nations. That is a complete false statement! That Tigray war does not belong on this article about EDF because that is just pushing a smear campaign on the EDF!Facttell (talk) 16:41, 15 March 2021 (UTC)

https://newbusinessethiopia.com/politics/tplf-to-target-civilians-using-eritrean-ethiopian-army-uniforms/ Tplf uses Eritrean and Ethiopian uniforms to massacre civilians in Tigray

We have received inside information that by recording this acts, TPLF is planning to falsely accuse the Ethiopian Army for killing civilians,” Major General Mohammed Tessema, head of ENDF Indoctrination told the state broadcaster – ETV last night. He indicated that the TPLF is planning to undertake a genocide like “it did recently at Maykadra”. Facttell (talk) 17:28, 15 March 2021 (UTC)


 * If you want to continue discussion on the allegations against EDF in the Tigray war then go to the following: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:War_crimes_in_the_Tigray_War#TPLF_involved_in_massacring_civilians_in_Aksum_and_other_places_in_Tigray

I have counter evidence and resources stating the involvement of TPLF in massacring civilians whether Amhara or Tigrayan. Adding your disputed content in EDF page will be contested not only by me.Facttell (talk) 21:05, 15 March 2021 (UTC)

EDF page should be in similar to other Military pages To bring this page to NPOV then the structure and permitted content should similar to other Country militaries. Currently this page is full of accusations and allegations painting the military of Eritrea as being villains only. Countries that have done far worse including dropping nuclear bombs on civilian population, the US and have committed far worst human rights violations and continue to do, their DF pages are not vandalised with outrageous claims. This page will be editted such as https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_Defense_Forces#Main_doctrine or the US or other countries with less military conflicts. HRW and Amnesty International sources with respect to Eritrea are highly political organizations with clear guidance and use by Western countries to project Western imperialism.Facttell (talk) 22:19, 16 March 2021 (UTC)
 * If you have any problems with the pages on US or Israel military, please go there and modify. it is not because those pages omit war crimes, that the EDF page should omit war crimes.Rastakwere (talk) 13:54, 17 March 2021 (UTC)
 * I am following the convention. Also adding allegations on this as duplication from the Tigray war is cluttering the page. This page is about EDF and not Tigray war.Facttell (talk) 15:32, 17 March 2021 (UTC)


 * Some content that’s extensive, not neutral/ disputed and that’s more appropriate in Tigray War article have been removed. This have been pointed out in the past in this talk page. Remember this is a article on the “Eritrean defence forces” and not the War in Tigray.