User talk:Boud

first edit to my talk page (2003-03-15)
Hello there, welcome to the 'pedia! I hope you like the place and decide to stay. If you need pointers on how we title pages visit Naming conventions or how to format them visit our manual of style. If you have any other questions about the project then check out Help or add a question to the Village pump. Cheers! --maveric149 10:13, 15 March 2003‎ (edit by User:Mav at 10:13 on 15 March 2003‎)

DYK for Mohammad Fahad al-Qahtani
Orlady (talk) 16:03, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

Saudi soldier death section
Hello there, user. Consider that you were taking charge of contributing to the Saudi Arabian protests, if you read the recent news there would be two deaths: a protester and a government soldier. I have place the soldier name as part of the death list, but I can't really tell if that's the right place to put, unless if you really want the death table section to be under protester-ONLY death (meaning no pro-government troops were included). Either way, I will leave those for you to decide where you want to put the soldier's death. Thanks

Myronbeg (talk) 15:00, 4 August 2012 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the note, i'll have a look. BTW, i would recommend that details relevant to an article go on the article's discussion page, and a note on my talk page to let me know is enough. Also, remember WP:OWN. So even if i edit your edits, it doesn't make me the owner... If the KSA authorities ignore the 2000s in Morocco option, sooner or later there'll soon by an avalanche of new editors and i'll become a minority editor. Boud (talk) 18:21, 4 August 2012 (UTC)

Saudi protests
Hi, user. You will need this:

August 5 http://www.presstv.ir/detail/254508.html

August 6 http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2012/08/06/254715/saudis-hold-antiregime-demo-in-tarout/

August 7 http://www.presstv.ir/detail/254934.html

And recently 13 August http://www.nowlebanon.com/NewsArticleDetails.aspx?ID=427435
 * This one is hard to use: the Ministry only says that the shooting occurred in a region where political protests take place, and specifically claims there is no link with the political protests. I think the others are now in the timeline. Boud (talk) 23:40, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

Thanks Myronbeg (talk) 13:12, 13 August 2012 (UTC)

Hi, user. There are two events ongoing, but for the one in Awamiyah, do you think it should be under the Saudi protests or it just another outside event? If it should be included then I will include another death toll.

http://www.trust.org/alertnet/news/saudis-stage-rare-protest-over-security-detentions-without-trial

http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/news/international/Bangladeshi_man_shot_dead_in_Shiite_area_of_Saudi_Arabia.html?cid=33494664

Thanks. Myronbeg (talk) 14:26, 11 September 2012 (UTC)

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/09/24/us-saudi-protests-idUSBRE88M0GT20120924 Myronbeg (talk) 05:51, 24 September 2012 (UTC)

http://ca.reuters.com/article/topNews/idCABRE88Q05920120927 Myronbeg (talk) 07:57, 27 September 2012 (UTC)

DYK for Alexander Barankov
Casliber (talk · contribs) 00:02, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

DYK for Political prisoners in Saudi Arabia
PanydThe muffin is not subtle 16:02, 10 September 2012 (UTC)


 * Nice going with that article.  Mohamed CJ  (talk)  16:15, 10 September 2012 (UTC)

DYK for Suliman al-Reshoudi
Yngvadottir (talk) 00:03, 3 October 2012 (UTC)

Saud al-Hashimi
Are you familiar with this case? If I can find enough sources, I'm going to try to start an article on al-Hashimi in the next couple days. Thought you might be interested, given your previous work in this area. Cheers, and enjoy the week, -- Khazar2 (talk) 13:21, 21 October 2012 (UTC)

WP Human Rights in the Signpost
The WikiProject Report would like to focus on WikiProject Human Rights for a Signpost article. This is an excellent opportunity to draw attention to your efforts and attract new members to the project. Would you be willing to participate in an interview? If so, here are the questions for the interview. Just add your response below each question and feel free to skip any questions that you don't feel comfortable answering. Multiple editors will have an opportunity to respond to the interview questions, so be sure to sign your answers. If you know anyone else who would like to participate in the interview, please share this with them. Have a great day. –Mabeenot (talk) 17:48, 9 November 2012 (UTC)

Thursday Qatif demo
http://observers.france24.com/content/20121109-people-will-not-forget-those-killed-saudi-shiites-march-dead-saudi-arabia-qatif-protest Myronbeg (talk) 04:27, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

November battle (dubious) of Damascus
It was agreed already on the talk page of that article that there are no sources to confirm a Battle of Damascus, it was the POV of one editor, Alhanuty. Also, the article was more of a content fork from the Rif Dimashq campaign article. All other editors agreed that the info from the article was better suited to Rif Dimashq campaign article (by a count of 3 to 1). And it was merged. Alhanuty went against consensus and reverted back without even talking. Alhanuty didn't even try to start a new discussion, he simply went against a majority consensus. And I'm once again pointing out that the article, which he created, is totally at this point his own POV because there are no sources to indicate a battle for Damascus or even a siege as he suggested. Also, more than half the content he put in the article is already in the other one. The current rebel offensive that Alhanuty has been pointing out to has not been happening in Damascus itself, but 30 kilometers to the east of the capital in Rif Dimashq province, which the Rif Dimashq campaign article already covers in detail. This includes the airport which itself is not in the capital itself, but 30 kilometers southeast from it, and is already covered in the other article. I have merged the new content that you added to the Rif Dimashq campaign article, thank you for those updates. EkoGraf (talk) 14:43, 3 December 2012 (UTC)


 * P.S. I clarified those sentences you pointed out to at the Casualties article. Hope they are good now. :) EkoGraf (talk) 14:49, 3 December 2012 (UTC)


 * Ok, since it has become a hot topic I made a totally new proposal at Rif Dimashq campaign article. The main central article on all the fighting in Damascus capital and Rif Dimashq province will be 2011–2012 Damascus clashes. The sub-articles to that article will be Battle of Damascus/Operation Damascus Volcano, Darayya massacre, 1st Rif Dimashq offensive (military August-September; result - indecisive), 2nd Rif Dimashq offensive (rebel November-present; result - ongoing). So in essence I am proposing to split Rif Dimashq campaign up into a 1st offensive and 2nd offensive articles, the military one and rebel one. Since the issue of the scope of the article has been hotly debated. And some even proposed that the article cover all the way since November 2011, but 2011–2012 Damascus clashes already does this. So, can we agree on splitting the article into two offensives? Since we already agreed that there have in fact been two offensives. And the 2nd offensive article would of course also include the current sporadic clashes in the capital, although they are still minimal. EkoGraf (talk) 15:40, 3 December 2012 (UTC)


 * In reply to not seeing Alhanuty commenting anywhere on that talk page, he is user 24.0.208.70. In any case seems we have reached a wide agreement on what to do with all of the articles. EkoGraf (talk) 14:23, 4 December 2012 (UTC)

Talkback
Can you comment on this? FutureTrillionaire (talk) 22:01, 18 December 2012 (UTC)

Title change
Can you comment on this also? Talk:Rif Dimashq offensive (November 2012–present). -- FutureTrillionaire (talk) 23:18, 18 December 2012 (UTC)

DYK nomination of International Criminal Court investigation in Mali
Hello! Your submission of International Criminal Court investigation in Mali at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and some issues with it may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know!  The C of E God Save the Queen!  ( talk ) 11:12, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

DYK for International Criminal Court investigation in Mali
— Crisco 1492 (talk) 05:51, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of International Middle East Media Center


The article International Middle East Media Center has been proposed for deletion&#32; because of the following concern:
 * No indication of notability

While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

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I agree...
I agree with you re Contract of mandate. Now deleted.-- SPhilbrick (Talk)  18:45, 27 July 2013 (UTC)

August 2013
Hello, I'm BracketBot. I have automatically detected that [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=571003878 your edit] to Geneva II Middle East peace conference may have broken the syntax by modifying 3 "[]"s. If you have, don't worry, just [ edit the page] again to fix it. If I misunderstood what happened, or if you have any questions, you can leave a message on [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?action=edit&preload=User:A930913/BBpreload&editintro=User:A930913/BBeditintro&minor=&title=User_talk:A930913&preloadtitle=BracketBot%20-%20&section=new my operator's talk page]. Thanks, BracketBot (talk) 23:14, 31 August 2013 (UTC)

Hi and thanks

 * Hiya. I just wanted to say how much I appreciated your support on the unintentional but irritating debacle on the recent 2013 Ghouta attacks edit block. I picked it up, and you put much work running with it. I recommended at the beginning that a SP should be set. It was rejected. I think that was the worst admin oversight. No blame, just having to think off the cuff. Anyway, cheers! Irondome (talk) 05:28, 1 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Glad that you found my work useful! Boud (talk) 15:06, 1 September 2013 (UTC)

Dolfinarium Harderwijk
Thank you for taking the time to look over the Dolfinarium Harderwijk article. Apparently I missed a whole lot of small mistakes and you managed to further clear up some other sentences as well. It is appreciated! I also wish to express my appreciation for the articles you create and contribute to yourself. You produce some really important and in-the-news content. Keep it up. Crispulop (talk) 22:57, 2 September 2013 (UTC)

DYK nomination of Geneva II Middle East peace conference
Hello! Your submission of Geneva II Middle East peace conference at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and some issues with it may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! Crispulop (talk) 14:39, 3 September 2013 (UTC)

DYK for Geneva II Middle East peace conference
The DYK project (nominate) 00:02, 10 September 2013 (UTC)

DYK for Ali Mohammed Baqir al-Nimr
— Chris Woodrich (talk) 07:10, 5 October 2015 (UTC)

ArbCom elections are now open!
MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 08:51, 23 November 2015 (UTC)

Merger discussion for Monotypic taxon and Monospecificity
Articles that you have been involved in editing&mdash; Monotypic taxon and Monospecificity&mdash;have been proposed for merging with another article. If you are interested, please participate in the merger discussion. Thank you. Nessie (talk) 16:04, 17 August 2017 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Global Hunger Alliance
Hi I’ve added a PROD template to an article you created some years ago. The Global Hunger Alliance seems to have vanished. Mccapra (talk) 15:46, 5 December 2017 (UTC)

DYK for Anti male-guardianship campaign
Alex Shih (talk) 05:34, 1 June 2018 (UTC)

YasminaDD (talk) 22:46, 2 June 2018 (UTC)Thanks Boud
YasminaDD (talk) 22:46, 2 June 2018 (UTC) Hi Boud.Thanks for your edit. I added a reference for the first "citation needed". However, for the second part, I am not sure how can I cite emails and meetings that took place years ago?


 * Other Wikipedians will have to judge the validity of your first reference - see WP:NONENG for suggestions.


 * For the second part, you would need to convince, for example, a journalist or someone active in a human rights organisation that this is an important issue, and provide the emails and reports or verbal memories of the meetings to that person to help convince him/her that this really happened. If that person then published a report (preferably online: newspaper article, human rights report) with the information in those sentences, then that would be one example of a secondary source for the information. Someone who is recognised as a journalist or publishes in a serious newspaper, or who is active in a human rights organisation and succeeds in getting his/her report published officially, is someone who has judged the validity of the information and should be aware of the context; his/her report or article will also have gone through several degrees of criticism by colleagues/editors. This type of procedure does not guarantee that the information is reliable, but it does tend to remove some obvious types of false facts. Different organisations and publishers also have different reputations for fact-checking. As long as the publishers have been around for a long time, Wikipedians can generally make some judgement about whether a publisher satisfies WP:RS or not, although obviously there's a fuzzy middle ground.


 * If Yasminah E. has an online public cv, then that would count as a primary source, which is not normally acceptable - see e.g. Biographies_of_living_persons, although there are exceptions.


 * This might sound unfair, since you feel that these facts are important and should be in the Wikipedia article and you're sure they're true. (I personally have no reason to believe that they're false, and they seem both credible and relevant to me.) But you have to think of the whole system of trying to check claims of facts and trace their sources, and see the point of view of Wikipedians and Wikipedia readers. There are millions of people around the world who contact ministers and bureaucrats and politicians and successfully convince them to implement administrative/legal changes. But who judges what were the "causal" factors that led to the change? Journalists, historians, human rights organisations have (some) credibility for judging what the facts are and how significant they are and who/what was most important in getting the change to happen. Wikipedia does not substitute for them. You can see longer (more careful :)) explanations of what I've more or less said here in the links above, especially:
 * Verifiability
 * NOR
 * COI - if you are the same Yasminah... (you don't have to say if you are, but you should read the guideline)
 * WP:BLP - Yasminah Elsaadany is presumably still alive, and Wikipedia is especially sensitive to claims of facts about living people (though positive facts are less sensitive than negative ones).
 * Boud (talk) 23:56, 2 June 2018 (UTC)

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Template:Did you know nominations/Murder of April Tinsley
Hi, thanks for helping out with the reviews at DYK. Just a heads-up: if you write a hook, you cannot review it, per Rule H2. It seems the nominator did tweak this one enough to make it his own, but in future you could either suggest a new hook and then leave it to another editor to finish reviewing the nomination, or encourage the nominator to write his own alt hooks. Thanks, Yoninah (talk) 22:42, 3 September 2018 (UTC)
 * H2 refers to "You're not allowed to approve your own hook...". Sure, that's obvious.
 * I guess what you're trying to say is that my variations on FallingGravity's hook and tweaking of his/her ALT3 hook are felt by you to be "my" hook. Given that ALT1 and ALT2 contained almost the same information as FallingGravity's original hook, and that FallingGravity wrote ALT3, and I only modified it a little, I don't really think it can be called "my" hook without modification of the guideline.
 * I propose to work on your suggestion of an extra guideline at Wikipedia_talk:Did_you_know/Supplementary_guidelines. Boud (talk) 07:32, 4 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Just to clarify in this particular case: although I wouldn't use the description "my hook", I do see that it would have been useful to let a third-party reviewer judge whether or not to finish the review, e.g. using subst:DYK?again, especially since there's a BLP aspect here. Boud (talk) 08:03, 4 September 2018 (UTC)

Help adding an article about prominent woman?
Hi there, I'm new to Wikipedia and don't really know how it works, but I created an article about a prominant and notable woman. I'm wondering how to get it to appear on Wikipedia. Can you help? It's over here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Cyan_Banister

Thank you if you can help!! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 1Mynamegoeshere1 (talk • contribs) 23:11, 7 September 2018 (UTC)

Talkback
Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 04:42, 18 September 2018 (UTC)

DYK for Israa al-Ghomgham
Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 00:01, 22 September 2018 (UTC)

Nomination of Tiger Squad for deletion
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DYK for ALQST
Alex Shih (talk) 12:01, 5 December 2018 (UTC)

Draft:Naresh Dadhich (political scientist)
Hi. I've moved this article to draft because it is in a pretty poor state. It looks like you created it from existing content so it's nothing personal. However, it's obvious that the subject of the article has been editing it and it is basically promotional from start to finish. If you want to do anything about it, you know where to find it. Deb (talk) 12:50, 27 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Hi . I've put an edit history analysis at Draft talk:Naresh Dadhich (political scientist). So yes, the "this-is-ND's-brilliant-self-cv" content was put copied there by me under the assumption that it was covered by CC-BY-SA, without condoning the (low) quality. As a matter of principle, do we have any policies about removing an article from mainspace to Draft - without any of the normal discussion procedures for move and delete proposals?
 * In terms of practicality, in this particular case, it's probably hard to complain and WP:SNOWBALL applies. In 12 years of en.WP history, the ND-political-scientist article has not progressed at all. Four titles of what appear to be books and no other bibliometric information do not constitute a list of verifiable references for inline sourcing of factual claims in the article. The involvement of User:Nareshdadhich, whose user page looks like a not-very-humble cv, doesn't suggest that the person most motivated to improve the quality of the article by asking for help from uninvolved parties has made any effort to read any Wikipedia guidelines. (Which makes me wonder about the author's would-be academic skills...)
 * So I'm not disputing the move, but I am curious about whether a policy exists. There could be similar cases that are not so clear-cut. Boud (talk) 21:14, 27 January 2019 (UTC) minor edit Boud (talk) 21:16, 27 January 2019 (UTC)
 * I don't think so, but I've done it once or twice recently (I should add that I came across this one purely by accident - I wasn't tracking the article creator or anything.) It certainly meets the criteria for speedy deletion, but this seemed like a less drastic solution. I'm not sure where to go from here. Deb (talk) 21:18, 27 January 2019 (UTC)
 * It's an unreferenced BLP. That would have justified deletion. I agree that draftifying was nicer. I'm going to put a template on the ND-the-Wikipedian's talk page - as a retired political scientist and VC, he might be willing to invest the time to learn the elementary academic principles as practised at en.Wikipedia. Chances are he hasn't yet realised that this corner of "the Internet" is not just "click and it works", and that intellectual care and effort are expected and required. Boud (talk) 21:26, 27 January 2019 (UTC)
 * In case you're curious, - you can see my suggestions at User talk:Nareshdadhich. Boud (talk) 22:04, 27 January 2019 (UTC)

Nomination of Committee for the Abolition of Illegitimate Debt for deletion
A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Committee for the Abolition of Illegitimate Debt is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

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MfD nomination of Draft:Naresh Dadhich (political scientist)
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Speedy deletion nomination of Maria Ribeiro (disambiguation)


A tag has been placed on Maria Ribeiro (disambiguation) requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section G14 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because it is an orphaned disambiguation page which either
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DYK for 2019 Saudi Arabia mass execution
&mdash; Amakuru (talk) 00:01, 26 June 2019 (UTC)

Sovereignty Council of Sudan
Hi Why the name of the article is Sovereignty Council of Sudan and not Sovereignty Council? --Panam2014 (talk) 23:01, 21 August 2019 (UTC)


 * Hi Panam2014 - In MayorCarter made the change from Sovereignty Council (2019) to Sovereignty Council of Sudan without respecting the fact that a debate was opened: I warned him/her about that. I'm assuming good faith, that MayorCarter will learn from this mistake. In terms of Wikipedia principles, the move made by MayorCarter has no effect on the discussion, except for annoying people. If you like you can ask for admin help for temporary move protection - and explain that it would help for the present discussion to move the name back to the name when the move request started, to reduce confusion. Keep in mind that the better you explain yourself, with appropriate links, rather than forcing admins to have to look for all the info themselves, the more likely it is that an admin will respond to you quickly. Start from the top of Protection_policy for more info about admins (how they're selected, who they are) and this particular role of admins. See Template:diff for a guideline on how to show individual edits like I did above. Boud (talk) 00:27, 22 August 2019 (UTC)

Bluetooth mesh networking - Community usage
A note about using a peer-to-peer communication app in HK is interesting, but I'm afraid it's not about Bluetooth mesh protocol, as standardized by Bluetooth SIG. To my knowledge, none of the phones available on the market are capable of peer-to-peer Bluetooth mesh communication. They only can talk to mesh network if one of the nodes provide them with so-called proxy capability. So I assume that Bridgefy app uses some other form of mesh communication, most probably based on iBeacon protocol. iBeacon is based on Bluetooth Low Energy like Bluetooth mesh is, but they are different things. Summarizing, I'd suggest to move your info to some other Bluetooth- or mesh- related pages. MichalHobot (talk) 11:43, 3 September 2019 (UTC)
 * The sources used in the article do not, as far as I can see, make the surprising claim that "mesh networking" is a protocol. It might well be true that Bridgefy is not based on the Bluetooth Mesh network specifications but instead on iBeacon, which according to you depends on Bluetooth Low Energy. If so, please add your sources and cite the info from them at Bridgefy, and it would be best to use web.archive.org or wikiwix.com to include archiveurl's so that if the sources are volatile, the Wikipedia entries will still make sense in a few years' time. Nobody guarantees that s/he will maintain any given Wikipedia article...
 * It would be best to place more specific discussion on the talk pages of these articles - interested readers and editors are more likely to find the info in the obvious place in that case - thanks! :) Boud (talk) 01:16, 4 September 2019 (UTC)
 * MichalHobot, a Comparison of mesh networking software might be a good thing to make from some of the software at Category:Mesh networking. We also have Smartphone ad hoc network, Wireless ad hoc network and Wireless mesh network, which seems like it might be a bit redundant. HLHJ (talk) 02:58, 2 September 2020 (UTC)

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self-closed tag
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Question about errors
Question about https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Timeline_of_the_2011%E2%80%9312_Saudi_Arabian_protests_(from_July_2012)&oldid=prev&diff=925222111

How do you fix the "|first= missing |last=" errors? Quebec99 (talk) 17:24, 8 November 2019 (UTC)


 * I think you may have already started fixing that - see . Instead of first and last, use author. My interpretation is that these authors are initials, but there would be no point trying to separate out the initials into "last" and "first" names. It would be speculation. In principle, looking at the newspaper's list of journalists should make it possible to work out who is who, but that would be quite a bit of work. Boud (talk) 17:40, 8 November 2019 (UTC)


 * I made a few of these changes just now, but I'm happy to leave it to you to do more on this series of pages. Since Press TV often lists two authors with a slash - AB/CD, meaning e.g. Andrew Bloggs and Carol Dean - we could in principle split to |author1=AB |author2=CD. Since the author information in this case is already weak, I would say that keeping a single author is just as useful as the split. Boud (talk) 17:48, 8 November 2019 (UTC)

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Google Code-In 2019 is coming - please mentor some documentation tasks!
Hello,

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I would like to ask you to take part in Google Code-In as a mentor. That would mean to prepare at least one task (it can be documentation related, or something else - the other categories are Code, Design, Quality Assurance and Outreach) for the participants, and help the student to complete it. Please sign up at the contest page and send us your Google account address to google-code-in-admins@lists.wikimedia.org, so we can invite you in!

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--User:Martin Urbanec (talk) 21:58, 23 November 2019 (UTC)


 * No thanks for the GAFAM spam. Boud (talk) 22:12, 23 November 2019 (UTC)

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(thanks)
Thanks for catching those  that my editor adds for me (seemingly randomly). I don't always notice when it happens. Apologies! 🌿  SashiRolls t ·  c 19:07, 1 December 2019 (UTC)
 * You're&amp;nbsp;welcome.&amp;nbsp;:) Boud (talk) 19:24, 1 December 2019 (UTC)

The Ohconfucious date scripts
These tools help to align the date format in the articles. To let editors know the last time the tool was used, it changes the template date to the current year and month. Dawnseeker2000 17:28, 5 December 2019 (UTC)
 * OK, I re-read the info at the top of Template:Use_dmy_dates - I think you (and the bot) are right about the intended meaning of the date tag in the use dmy dates case. Boud (talk) 20:20, 5 December 2019 (UTC)

2018–19 Iraqi protests → 2018 Iraqi protests
Only you and me have expressed opinions. Do u know anyone who could finally close that move request and do the rename? 83.11.94.170 (talk) 16:47, 7 December 2019 (UTC)


 * Anybody with an account can move the page. (I've gone ahead and done it.) Could you look back over the article and restructure it so it doesn't still have 2018 protests / 2019 protests as its main division?  I hacked away everything post-summer 2019, but decided to leave the actual sectioning of the remaining gno-ledge to the experts. :)  🌿   SashiRolls t ·  c 23:28, 7 December 2019 (UTC)
 * I have read that involved editors should not close requests. I have no idea about the two sections division. Certainly there should remain some reference into 2019. Hacking away only post-summer 2019? Well since the rename everything post 2018 should go out. So I did some of it also. Thanks. 83.11.94.170 (talk) 03:41, 8 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Everything should go out except a general reference of 2019. Well what is now does not look bad. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.11.94.170 (talk) 03:44, 8 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Reference TO 2019. Sorry. English is not my native. 83.11.214.121 (talk) 18:05, 11 December 2019 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Book:Observational cosmology - 30h course/Preface


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Happy New Year, Boud!


Happy New Year! Boud, Have a prosperous, productive and enjoyable New Year, and thanks for your contributions to Wikipedia.

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Send New Year cheer by adding {{subst:Happy New Year fireworks}} to user talk pages.

Protests of 2019
Tsukide (talk) 15:50, 16 January 2020 (UTC)
 * The place to talk is Talk:Protests of 2019 in the appropriate on-topic sections. You should also carefully read Articles_for_deletion/Protests_of_2019. If the article looks like it starts containing more and more WP:OR, then it will become more likely for there to be a new deletion proposal. Boud (talk) 17:19, 16 January 2020 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of File:Dres polish subculture small.jpg


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Proposed deletion of 2020 coronavirus outbreak in Poland


The article 2020 coronavirus outbreak in Poland has been proposed for deletion&#32;because of the following concern: "No confirmed cases or deaths within the country. Should be recreated when/if widespread cases appear."

While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, pages may be deleted for any of several reasons.

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Nomination for merging of Template:2019–20 coronavirus outbreak data/Europe medical cases
Template:2019–20 coronavirus outbreak data/Europe medical cases has been nominated for merging with Template:2019%E2%80%9320_coronavirus_outbreak_data/International_medical_cases. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. Thank you. UnitedStatesian (talk) 02:18, 3 March 2020 (UTC)

RfC on COVID 19 navbox
I started an RfC concerning pointing to the template namespace in the COVID 19 navbox. You voiced an opinion about this voiced about a week ago, so please feel free to restate your opinion at Template talk:COVID-19.  Bait30  Talk? 05:11, 3 March 2020 (UTC)

Helping me with updating a file.
Hey, You have previously said that there's a button "Upload a new version of this file" on the but I dont see any button like that, and there's also is a text saying "You cannot overwrite this file." So, how I can upload an updated, a newer version of that .svg picture? Thx, for help. Natanieluz (talk) 13:26, 8 March 2020 (UTC)
 * If you have Polish set in your preferences: go to the bottom of the section "Historia pliku". Just above the next section "Wykorzystanie pliku" you should see "Załaduj nowszą wersję tego pliku". In English do the equivalent. :) In many browsers (e.g. firefox), you can use Ctrl-f to search for a string (sequence of characters) within the page. Do you see "You cannot overwrite this file." at the position in the page that I'm talking about? Boud (talk) 17:00, 8 March 2020 (UTC)
 * I found the explanation: Commons:Commons:FAQ + Commons:User_talk:Natanieluz - you only created an account at Commons at 16:43, 6 March 2020 UTC = 17:43 CET, so you'll have to wait two more days, until 17:43 CET 10 March, before being able to upload new versions. I don't think that for you to switch to new file names for each update until then would be reasonable. The idea of forcing people to wait until they've had a chance to learn is reasonable, and four days is not extremely long. For reading through the various guideline pages, four days is in fact rather short. Building an encyclopedia is a long-term project. At your talk page on Commons you have a welcome message pointing to lots of th e key guidelines. If you switch your preferences language to Polish, then this welcome message will very likely to switch to Polish. Boud (talk) 17:27, 8 March 2020 (UTC)

Re: medonet ref as generic source
Yes, you are right.

Regards --Wiklol (talk) 20:34, 9 March 2020 (UTC)

Table collapse and sorting
Hi, from this I figure you know something about tables. On 2019–20_coronavirus_outbreak the desire is to have the Template:COVID-19 testing table collapsed, and when expanded to have headings that are sortable. Unfortunately that seems technically hard, that there is a choice between either having it collapsible or having it sortable, see Template_talk:COVID-19_testing. Can you help? Sun Creator(talk) 16:13, 11 March 2020 (UTC)

Ref source in templates
Hey, you often write: the ref source is/should be in one of the templates, can You tell me where (in which template this is), how You made that source and how to use it? Natanieluz (talk) 21:45, 17 March 2020 (UTC)
 * hi Natanieluz. The templates are Template:2019–20 coronavirus pandemic data/Poland medical cases and Template:2019–20 coronavirus pandemic data/Poland medical cases by voivodeship (which you edit quite often). The idea is that the full source for a reference should only be in one of these; references in the other or in the main article should be repeat references. I've noticed that recently you've started using repeat references :), which to me makes sense. However, you're using ref names such as ":0", which apparently is the only option allowed by Visual Editor. I edit the wikicode directly using a text editor. This allows me to use the keyboard and keyboard shortcuts, almost without using the mouse, which makes editing fast and efficient. I use the firefox browser and the emacs text editor. Emacs has many powerful tools to make systematic editing efficient. To use these two together, in my   file I have
 * and in  I have the edit-server.el code that does the work. Here's a longer explanation. When I start an "edit" on Wikipedia, I see a little "edit" button at the bottom-right of my editing window; if I click on this, I get a standard emacs editing window, which has the full power of emacs, rather than just the firefox editing tools. I don't know if VE (Visual Editor) shows you the reference names; if you try edit code to at least look at the source, you'll see ref names such as MOHPL_LD8_DS5_OP1_SL1_ZP1_PD1_17Mar. The idea is that when you're looking at the full reference, you cross-check the name against the actual source of the reference; and when you're editing numbers in a table, you can add up the numbers from the name, e.g. if the references for one day include DS5 DS2 DS1, then you expect to get DS=8.
 * With other powerful text editors (where you can do everything from the keyboard without wasting time with a mouse), e.g. vi, (and there are many, many text editor programs available that are less powerful than emacs and vi), you'll have to find other ways of connecting them to your browser.
 * For making the structured references, you're welcome to cut and paste from notes on my user page (they're obviously CC-BY-SA, since they're on Wikipedia), or make similar notes on your own page.
 * Hope this answers your question. :) (BTW, in English you don't capitalise the "y" in you, except at the beginning of a sentence. :)) Boud (talk) 22:32, 17 March 2020 (UTC)
 * ohh ok, thanks - and sorry for late answer but I have pretty bussy days right now. Yea and I know that "you" is writted with "y" not "Y", but I like starting you with "Y" couse of (for me) that make more pleasant and welcoming :). So there is a more "easy" way to make that sources like you? or is this 100% needed to be done with every source?  Natanieluz (talk) 18:58, 19 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Each of us contributes what s/he can: we're all volunteers, including you. I think that this method (with names such as MOHPL_LD8_DS5_OP1_SL1_ZP1_PD1_17Mar) is good and will tend to reduce errors, but you've seen that I made a few errors recently, even with this method. I've seen that a few other editors have been following the method with the information in the ref name. But as long as you don't mind me or others updating your references with the longer named ones, you shouldn't feel bad about adding references with the ":0" label from VisualEditor. This is already better than copy/pasting the same reference in full detail many times. :) Boud (talk) 21:44, 20 March 2020 (UTC)
 * okey, if I am not wrong, I can "manualy" (in VisualEditor or in source editor) edit that ":0" to source name, like you done here, in short - when I publish changes in VE and then we have ":0" I can manualy overwrite which source name e.g."MOHPL_WP4_DS3_PD2_PK1_MA1_LU1_KP1_452tot_21Mar", if that will work - I will do that Natanieluz (talk) 14:24, 21 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Sounds good to me. :) Boud (talk) 14:35, 21 March 2020 (UTC)
 * I did it, there isn't anymore ":0", can you see if that works normally? thx, Natanieluz (talk) 20:48, 21 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Nice work :). I made on the voivodeships template.
 * Also see template. If you look carefully at the two templates, you'll see ... sections in each, at the top, and at the bottom. This means that when the template is included in another page, the noinclude parts are ignored. Each of these two templates calls the other one in its own noinclude section. If you look at a template on its own, you see the noinclude parts. This way, a reference in one can be used in the other, and looks OK without having to go to the main article. But also, the main article does not end up with multiple copies of the same reference. If you want, you can experiment in your user space, e.g. create User:Natanieluz/sandbox/test, User:Natanieluz/sandbox/medtemplate, User:Natanieluz/sandbox/voivodetemplate, and put  in a noinclude section in /sandbox/medtemplate, and do it the other way around too, and put in some simple references. Put in a bit of text, enough to avoid getting confused which article is where. Boud (talk) 21:35, 21 March 2020 (UTC)
 * now is everything good? Natanieluz (talk) 18:38, 22 March 2020 (UTC)
 * In terms of the logic of referencing and cross-referencing, I didn't see any mistakes. :) I looked at your edits without separating them from those of other people - there were one or two others who made minor changes not long after you did - but I assume the changes were mostly from your edits. I made one change (to the three pages) in the name label: there was DS twice, instead of MA4 the second time. The numbers in the tables were correct (it seems to me); it's only the label itself that was wrong, and it was wrong in a consistent way, so it was only a problem for humans, not for robots. Someone coming along later (one of us or someone else) might have got confused later on. I made that sort of mistake in name labels at least once or twice. Also, I replaced http by https - for some people this is quite important for personal privacy - see especially Edward Snowden to understand why most of the world shifted from http to https a few years ago - and I changed archive.vn to archive.today - see this discussion. Boud (talk) 20:10, 22 March 2020 (UTC)
 * In terms of the logic of referencing and cross-referencing, I didn't see any mistakes. :) I looked at your edits without separating them from those of other people - there were one or two others who made minor changes not long after you did - but I assume the changes were mostly from your edits. I made one change (to the three pages) in the name label: there was DS twice, instead of MA4 the second time. The numbers in the tables were correct (it seems to me); it's only the label itself that was wrong, and it was wrong in a consistent way, so it was only a problem for humans, not for robots. Someone coming along later (one of us or someone else) might have got confused later on. I made that sort of mistake in name labels at least once or twice. Also, I replaced http by https - for some people this is quite important for personal privacy - see especially Edward Snowden to understand why most of the world shifted from http to https a few years ago - and I changed archive.vn to archive.today - see this discussion. Boud (talk) 20:10, 22 March 2020 (UTC)

"Template:Cablegate" listed at Redirects for discussion
An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect Template:Cablegate. Since you had some involvement with the Template:Cablegate redirect, you might want to participate in the redirect discussion if you wish to do so. Guy (help!) 18:50, 18 March 2020 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:WikiLeaks cable
Template:WikiLeaks cable has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. Guy (help!) 18:52, 18 March 2020 (UTC)
 * At the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page I do not see any proposal for deletion for Template:WikiLeaks cable, and I don't see a proposal notice at Template:WikiLeaks cable itself either. Is there a deletion proposal? If so, where is it? Boud (talk) 19:17, 18 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Are you proposing to delete the template itself in the same proposal as the redirects? That's rather confusing - deleting a redirect to a template is less serious than deleting a template itself. However, I'll assume that that's what you mean. Boud (talk) 19:20, 18 March 2020 (UTC)
 * , no, just the redirects. Guy (help!) 21:40, 18 March 2020 (UTC)

"Template:Wikileaks cable" listed at Redirects for discussion
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Disambiguation link notification for March 22
An automated process has detected that when you recently edited 2020 coronavirus pandemic in Poland, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Online learning ([//dispenser.info.tm/~dispenser/cgi-bin/dablinks.py/2020_coronavirus_pandemic_in_Poland check to confirm] | [//dispenser.info.tm/~dispenser/cgi-bin/dab_solver.py/2020_coronavirus_pandemic_in_Poland?client=notify fix with Dab solver]).

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SARS-CoV-2 spread in Poland and its neighbours
Rgarding 2020 coronavirus pandemic in Poland, I believe  you are responsible for producing this insightful gnuplot graph of "SARS-CoV-2 spread in Poland and its neighbours".

The graph can be still improved:

a) Please always use the red color for the most important country, in this case: Poland b) Please arrange the countries on the graph's legend roughly in the same order as the are placed in the figure, namely, from top to bottom: DE, CZ, PL etc so that the eye need not search the entire graph to localize the next country in the graph c) remove labels from the "y" axis for the multiplicities of 2 (2, 20, 200, etc.) d) on the y axis, introduce minor tics (in gnuplot: "set mytics 10"). Their length is typically half the length of ordinary tics e) it should be possible to draw the "30% slope% curve as a dashed line. Ths would easily indicate that this curve is different in nature and does not represent any country. Also, please do remove the symbols from its ends!!! You can also reduce the line thickness for it.

Anyway, great job, this is my favorite figure for many days!

PracownikFizyczny (talk) 09:21, 23 March 2020 (UTC)

Look at Poland_medical_cases_by_voivodeship.
Hey, can you look at, I'am not sure if everything is correct, there were too many info from MOHPL today, they are even correcting there own tweets. Natanieluz (talk) 21:27, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

Edit war
Your recent editing history shows that you are currently engaged in an edit war; that means that you are repeatedly changing content back to how you think it should be, when you have seen that other editors disagree. To resolve the content dispute, please do not revert or change the edits of others when you are reverted. Instead of reverting, please use the talk page to work toward making a version that represents consensus among editors. The best practice at this stage is to discuss, not edit-war. See the bold, revert, discuss cycle for how this is done. If discussions reach an impasse, you can then post a request for help at a relevant noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases, you may wish to request temporary page protection.

Being involved in an edit war can result in you being blocked from editing&mdash;especially if you violate the three-revert rule, which states that an editor must not perform more than three reverts on a single page within a 24-hour period. Undoing another editor's work—whether in whole or in part, whether involving the same or different material each time—counts as a revert. Also keep in mind that while violating the three-revert rule often leads to a block, you can still be blocked for edit warring&mdash;even if you don't violate the three-revert rule&mdash;should your behavior indicate that you intend to continue reverting repeatedly. Ythlev (talk) 18:12, 30 March 2020 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:2019–20 coronavirus pandemic data/Singapore medical cases
Template:2019–20 coronavirus pandemic data/Singapore medical cases has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. Darylgolden(talk) Ping when replying 03:34, 3 April 2020 (UTC)

Nice close!
You did a good job summarizing all arguments and closing the RfC on discrimination in the coronavirus pandemic article. I'm impressed! -Darouet (talk) 22:46, 10 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I was a bit worried - at Talk:2020 coronavirus pandemic in Poland/Archive 2 my editing on that page is mostly described as propaganda (without targetting me personally). I disagree, but I listen to criticism. :) Boud (talk) 01:18, 11 April 2020 (UTC)

The decentralised Fediverse servers.
Hey, you often write about this Fediverse or/and Mastodon, e.g. here can you provide me any examples of other gov having a server there? I'm quite interested in this, and sources/examples will be very helpful :), Natanieluz (talk) 10:48, 12 April 2020 (UTC)
 * OK, I'll keep an eye out for that. My comment was mainly that any government department could do that. For the moment, what I know of includes:
 * https://mastodon.etalab.gouv.fr/about - the description at the right ("Instance ouverte...") says that the server is a test server, that creating an account is open to all employees of the French state, provided they have an account on .gouv.fr (general French state domain) or on one of other certain other domains listed on the link, which includes many research organisations, some universities, the Parliament, the Senate; any new user must first read the terms and conditions (CGU); 1600 users are registered, 118 are "active" (which seems to be defined as "did something in the previous month").
 * Boud (talk) 11:36, 12 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Not quite the same topic, but related - pressure on governments to provide open data: https://opendatabarometer.org/4thedition/report/ - Poland is ranked 46th out of 114 countries in the 4th edition (2017). Boud (talk) 20:45, 13 April 2020 (UTC)
 * ohh, Poland is behind Russia and Turkey... And unfortunately things in Poland is getting worse and worse, even yesterday (13 april) I saw a public attack by Polish government controlled media (TVP) "Telewizja Polska" they attack private oppositional tv media (TVN) (TVN is owned by Discovery group), they are even attacking journalists's family :/
 * And the saddest thing is that even if they sue that gov propaganda - most of our courts and judges are politicized, here you have a example what "our" judges from political attached do. (This "judge" is a member of totaly politicized National Council of the Judiciary (pl. KRS) most (if not all...) of judges who are sitting there are political members, there are not neutral, there are not independent.Natanieluz (talk) 09:45, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

Barnstar for current events article
Please accept this barnstar, with my compliments. By the way, I am the Lead Coordinator at WP:History, and also the head of WP:Contemporary History task force. --Sm8900 (talk) 03:42, 15 June 2020 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the compliments :). But I'm wondering if the delete procedure can be appealed since the person who contributed probably about 70% of the content last time I checked - me - was not alerted to the AfD proposal. I had no idea that there was a new AfD going on. Right now I'm rather busy, and the edit record should not disappear from the WMF archives. It would probably be easiest to restore the article once there are some peer-reviewed academic articles on the topic rather than hurrying to re-create it. The difficulty is that academics studying the topic are more likely to be studying what's happening sociologically in relation to the pandemic... Boud (talk) 23:48, 15 June 2020 (UTC)
 * no problem. I'm very glad that you said that. not only can it be appealed.... it is being appealed. click this link to view it! so hopefully, perhaps we can get this article to be retained!!!


 * Link to current appeal: Deletion_review/Log/2020_June_15


 * thanks!! --Sm8900 (talk) 00:58, 16 June 2020 (UTC)

note re Protests of 2019 article revisions
hi., what is the latest status, on the edit process or article improvement process for Protests of 2019? I have saved the latest version in my user space, at User:Sm8900/Drafts/Protests of 2019. you are welcome to work on it there, or alternately to create your own copy. could you please let me know what the current status is? I appreciate all your efforts. thanks!! --Sm8900 (talk) 19:12, 18 June 2020 (UTC)


 * I don't quite follow. The article, including its full edit history and copyright of all the authors, is temporarily undeleted at Protests of 2019. In terms of copyright, I am forbidden from working on any version that includes contributions by other authors without the proper copyright tracing, since the copyright conditions of their contributions - CC-BY-SA by default unless they declare something like PD on their user pages - require full attribution. There's a procedure we can look up for requesting a copy of the full article including the edit history in user space, but I'm not going to look it up right now.
 * But back to your question: I technically cannot edit or improve the article right now (unless I write a script to download the full edit history and reconstruct that on another mediawiki server, which I'm not going to do; or if one of us requests restoral of a full copy with full attribution in our user space). The temporary undeletion makes it a little easier to respond at Deletion_review/Log/2020_June_15. I'll discuss there. In principle you should put a warning on the snapshot that you have made about attribution and the context. Boud (talk) 22:51, 18 June 2020 (UTC)
 * - see Userfication and Category:Wikipedia_administrators_willing_to_provide_copies_of_deleted_articles for policy and admins willing to provide you with a userfied copy of the article. You should also ask the same admin to delete - on your request - the page User:Sm8900/Drafts/Protests of 2019 - on the grounds that you created this with the best of intentions, but without realising the problems of missing attribution. I don't think just a warning placed there is really enough. I would also suggest that you place your opinion in the DRV as either endorse or overturn or relist, in the style that others have done, with a very brief summary of your reasons, and briefly state that longer comments by you are above. That would make it easier for uninvolved people to more easily get an overview of the discussion. Boud (talk) 00:41, 19 June 2020 (UTC)
 * ok. thanks for your important points on that. --Sm8900 (talk) 19:56, 19 June 2020 (UTC)

COVID-19 in Poland site
Hey! can you take care of this site COVID-19 pandemic in Poland nad Statistics of the COVID-19 pandemic in Poland for a few days? I will be offline until Monday or Tuesday. I will be glad if you can replace me for few days, and update that site regularly. :) Natanieluz (talk) 12:03, 26 June 2020 (UTC)

Category:Peacebuilding institutions has been nominated for merging
Category:Peacebuilding institutions has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Marcocapelle (talk) 09:11, 7 August 2020 (UTC)

Category:Peace mechanism has been nominated for renaming
Category:Peace mechanism has been nominated for renaming. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:42, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

Protestor vs protesters
Hello, I'm Akmaie Ajam. I need to clear up ambiguity about whether "protestor" should be corrected into "protester" or that "protestor" is correct and just an alternative to "protester". I'm confused about whether to correct it or not because you reverted my edit in the Sudanese Revolution article but not in the 2020 Belarusian protests article. Thank you. ᐱᔌᕬᐱɭᕮ ᐱᒍᐱᕬ  (Talk)  08:49, 26 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Selamat malam (di sini sekarang malam)! :) See wikt:protestor. Both are correct. The general policy with a question of style like this (such as US vs AU/UK English) is to prefer consistency within any single article. Consistency between different articles is not generally expected. Once an article is one style, it's generally not a good idea to change unless there's a special reason to, or if all editors agree. The Sudanese Revolution article (that started off as a "protests" article), has had "protestors" for a long time. The Belarusian 2020 protests articles had had "protesters" more or less since it started (I think). Keduanya artikul baik. Boud (talk) 21:52, 26 August 2020 (UTC)
 * I'm surprised that you can speak Indonesian. Anyways, thank you (terima kasih). ᐱᔌᕬᐱɭᕮ ᐱᒍᐱᕬ   (Talk)  06:16, 27 August 2020 (UTC)

Thanks!
I'd come across Eman al-Nafjan when looking for sources for Riyadh International Book Fair, whose red links (and long DYK nom on the talk page) you might find interesting. HLHJ (talk) 02:37, 2 September 2020 (UTC)

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Phasiko Mochochoko
Thank you for creating this article, but the subject's correct first name is Phakiso. 73.71.251.64 (talk) 20:56, 4 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Yes, thanks! ✅ That was my error with an unfamiliar name. If you know how to say "Phakiso", preferably with a reference, then please add the info at Talk:Phakiso_Mochochoko, or directly in the article after checking the expected Wikipedia conventions. Boud (talk) 01:39, 5 September 2020 (UTC)

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IP message about Teatr TrzyRzecze
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Requesting some help in article expansions
Hello

Greetings,

I visited your profile and and viewed couple of contributions. I have been supporting and looking for article expansion support for some of following.


 * International Conference on Population and Development
 * Draft:Sexual politics (Gender politics)
 * Draft:Autobiographies of Muslim and Ex-Muslim Women
 * Draft:Expressions of Muslim and Ex-Muslim Women through media ineteractions
 * Draft:Women's rights in Muslim societies
 * Draft:Civil life in conflict zones
 * Draft:Women, conflicts and conflict zones

After visiting your profile, a question came in my mind whether Wikipedia has any article on Women's role in promoting peace.

Please see do consider above topics and also help / support in expansion of those which you find interested in.

Thanks and warm regards

Bookku (talk) 14:50, 27 October 2020 (UTC)


 * I only know of the one paragraph at Peace process (the reference is in the references section). There's an image next to the section that you may find useful. Boud (talk) 00:01, 28 October 2020 (UTC)
 * PS: An article you may be interested in is Feminism in Saudi Arabia - women are organising and defending their humanity even in the most extreme misogynistic environments (as well as in more "moderately" misogynistic places). Boud (talk) 00:24, 28 October 2020 (UTC)

ITN recognition for 2020 Polish protests
Nice work! Thanks for making it Main Page-worthy! – John M Wolfson (talk • contribs) 16:48, 28 October 2020 (UTC)

November 2020
Please do not remove maintenance templates from pages on Wikipedia, as you did to October 2020 Polish protests, without resolving the problem that the template refers to, or giving a valid reason for the removal in the edit summary. Your removal of this template does not appear constructive, and has been reverted. Thank you. Elizium23 (talk) 02:37, 2 November 2020 (UTC)
 * You are attempting a one-person edit war against overwhelming consensus. So let's look at the evidence and get more and more uninvolved parties to look at the case. Boud (talk) 02:52, 2 November 2020 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Mirosława Makuchowska


The article Mirosława Makuchowska has been proposed for deletion&#32;because of the following concern: "The coverage (references, external links, etc.) does not seem sufficient to justify this article passing General notability guideline and the more detailed Notability (biographies) requirement. WP:BEFORE did not reveal any significant coverage on Gnews, Gbooks or Gscholar. If you disagree and deprod this, please explain how it meets them on the talk page here in the form of 'This article meets criteria A and B because...' and ping me back through WP:ECHO or by leaving a note at User talk:Piotrus. Thank you."

While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, pages may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the page to address the issues raised. Removing will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 09:36, 13 November 2020 (UTC)

Ping to administrators
This is just a ping to admins that In the news/Candidates is ready and waiting for posting either with a blurb or as Ongoing, as you see fit based on the discussion there. Boud (talk) 00:19, 7 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Closing as it has been posted. Several admins monitor ITNC, so it isn't necessary to make a help request. 331dot (talk) 15:26, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

All-Poland women strike
Dear Boud, I'm concerned about the impartiality of editing when it comes to "All-polish women strike" article. It is strange you address warnings to me, and not to the user Trasz and other anonymous who constantly remove sourced information? Are the statements I added false? About relevancy: What is relevant? Statement about Suchanow can be treated as a minor detail. But I do not remove it. The acts of symbolical violence by many organizers and protesters, devastations of monuments etc. are important hallmarks of the protest. The lack of clear condemnation of the violence by organizers is also important. I cited Marta Lempart herself and added original source. So do not aim your threats to me, rather help to write an unbiased article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Semper liber sum (talk • contribs) 18:45, 7 December 2020 (UTC)


 * The best place to discuss this is Talk:All-Poland Women's Strike Boud (talk) 19:27, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

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election forensics
I have just discovered, through your user page, that you were the author of the famous paper applying Benford's law on the results of the 2009 Iranian election. I had read about it ten years ago. This is fascinating. Have you written on the subject ever since? Kahlores (talk) 04:01, 26 December 2020 (UTC)


 * Glad you liked it. :) My main subject is cosmology, so the short answer regarding Benford's law is "almost nothing", apart from getting the paper peer-reviewed. I did write a chapter in this non-free Princeton book coordinated by Steven J. Miller (not the Trump guy), and a few weeks ago I did a quick calculation which Reuters included in its fact check on the "Elvis lives!" rumours about the US presidential election.


 * What you might find interesting, since you appreciated the 2009 paper (peer-reviewed in JApS), is my SARS-CoV-2 paper, currently waiting for the peer review report(s). It's again a "statistical signs of likely fraud" paper, using a completely different method, but again based on "what's obvious to an astronomer". Here's a brief popular explanation. Poland turned up as one of the "minor heroes" of the paper. Algeria and Belarus are the "champions" in defeating Poisson noise. The paper aims to be one of the new generation of quantitative science papers aiming at high-quality, long-term reproducibility: any quantitative scientist with reasonable scientific computing skills should be able to check the complete chain from the source data to the pdf form of the paper. Boud (talk) 11:48, 26 December 2020 (UTC)

Grammatical error suggestion
Thanks for your suggestion at grammar mistakes that I edit. Regardless of grammar question, I'm not competing with, I'm constructing edit that tells Wikipedia's openness. See this edit by, he have no idea what he is doing when editing the page which means "changed Kiev into Kyiv 9 times". Despite the title of the show is notably called Kiev Day and Night, not Kyiv, according to sources or even in Ukrainian language, this editor invert the proper title without competent reason. You should see their edit to the subject, not grammar alone. 196.188.241.215 (talk) 06:50, 13 February 2021 (UTC)
 * I'm glad you weren't discouraged. :) I didn't want to get into the specific editing conflicts - you can always ask uninvolved editors to help if a conflict is difficult to resolve. I'll just comment that the Ukrainian language is normally written in cyrillic script, and since the Russian language is widely used in Ukraine (I don't know the political implications of the choice of language there), there's the problem of transliteration from either Ukrainian or Russian into the latin alphabet - which often leads to long disputes about the "correct" transliteration. See Talk:Maria Kalesnikava for a recent long title debate about a Belarusian trying to restore democracy in Belarus. (By the way, comments on talk pages are normally added at the bottom.) Boud (talk) 13:40, 13 February 2021 (UTC)

Requesting article expansion help
Greetings

Requesting you to visit article Draft:Sexual politics  and please do expand them if find yourself interested.

Thanks and warm regards

Bookku (talk) 06:35, 17 February 2021 (UTC)

Your edits on Eritrea
I restored your edits on the population of Eritrea. Since you did not engage in the discussion and preceded with doing changes without reaching consensus. Also you did several changes to include accusations of crimes supposedly committed in Tigray conflict by Eritrea. These are claims and not verified are not appropriate in that article.Leechjoel9 (talk) 18:21, 26 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Followups are at Talk:Eritrea and Talk:Eritrean Defence Forces. A good background review about the "persistent, widespread and systematic attack against the civilian population and .. crimes against humanity and ... the crimes of enslavement, imprisonment, enforced disappearance, torture, other inhumane acts, persecution, rape and murder" in Eritrea as found in the 2019 Universal Periodic Review of Eritrea by the United Nations Human Rights Council might help anyone interested in following the discussion. Boud (talk) 01:04, 27 February 2021 (UTC)

A notice about discretionary sanctions for the Horn of Africa
Doug Weller talk 16:32, 28 February 2021 (UTC)

LISTGAP
Hey, just a reminder that when you reply to, the options are   or. is always wrong. (Lots of editors don't know it, and it's not the end of the world, but it is better to get it right when you can.) WhatamIdoing (talk) 22:35, 1 March 2021 (UTC)
 * It's not the end of the world, which is still another 4.5 Gyr or so away, but it's a bit embarrassing. :P Thanks for the correction here and at AN/I! :) Boud (talk) 22:46, 1 March 2021 (UTC)

War crimes in the Tigray War
Hi Boud, you added 2020 Oromo schoolyard massacre to War crimes in the Tigray War claiming genocide as whole under Tigray war crime causes controversy. it supposed to be under Ethiopia page not Tigray war crime page. to keep matter apart not associated each other. however you insisted to be appears in the page. Therefore I added the link of related massacres to signify matter related to all. Please be careful as you are editing very sensitive issuesMfactDr (talk) 00:13, 4 March 2021 (UTC)


 * I'll switch over to the talk page for the article in a moment... Boud (talk) 00:23, 4 March 2021 (UTC)

Women in Red
Hi there, Boud, and welcome to Women in Red. I'm really glad to see that we can benefit from your wide experience of editing, now that you intend to spend more time on creating biographies of women. In this connection, if you have not already done so, you might find it useful to look through our Primer for creating women's biographies. Please let me know if you run into any difficulties or need assistance. Happy editing!--Ipigott (talk) 13:07, 7 March 2021 (UTC)

March 2021
Facttell (talk) 15:42, 15 March 2021 (UTC)

Please stop vandalising the Eritrean Defense Forces page
Please refrain from making unconstructive edits to Wikipedia, as you did at Eritrean Defence Forces. Your edits appear to constitute vandalism and have been reverted. If you would like to experiment, please use your sandbox. Repeated vandalism may result in the loss of editing privileges. Thank you. Facttell (talk) 16:45, 15 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Those are not vandalism, those are called WP:NPOV and WP:NOTCENSOR. Boud (talk) 16:47, 15 March 2021 (UTC)
 * For the record no consensus has been reached and the material you want to add to EDF has major issues. Additionally the EDF article is currently biased against EDF. The material you want to add only adds to the bias therefore making the page POV of "EDF is bad". Criticism of an organisation is ok but to point of just being smears especially by active participants of the conflict ie Amnesty and HRW being in collusion with TPLF, makes there reports unreliable. Both Eritrean and Ethiopian governments have rejected. Also Amnesty and HRW have not specifically called out TPLF for their war crimes.Facttell (talk) 18:09, 16 March 2021 (UTC)
 * This discussion is closed. Finding the factual errors (extraordinary claims without evidence) and the logical flaws in the 18:09 16 March 2021 comment is left as an exercise for the reader. Boud (talk) 19:59, 16 March 2021 (UTC)


 * Facttell Closing Response: Click the Show function to see the full discussion. On my part, this discussion is moved to the Eritrean Defence Forces Talkpage. The issue is unresolved and adding Amnesty International and HRW reports as sources and adding the Tigray War section is controversial.Facttell (talk) 01:39, 17 March 2021 (UTC)


 * Boud, I've blocked Facttell as a ✅ sock of .-- Jezebel's Ponyo bons mots 20:45, 17 March 2021 (UTC)

April editathons from Women in Red
--Megalibrarygirl (talk) 20:15, 22 March 2021 (UTC) via MassMessaging

May 2021 at Women in Red
--Rosiestep (talk) 21:35, 28 April 2021 (UTC) via MassMessaging

DYK for People's Peace Movement (Afghanistan)
Cwmhiraeth (talk) 00:02, 16 June 2021 (UTC)

June 2021
It appears that you have been canvassing—leaving messages on a biased choice of talk pages to notify them of an ongoing community decision, debate, or vote—in order to influence Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard. While friendly notices are allowed, they should be limited and nonpartisan in distribution and should reflect a neutral point of view. Please do not post notices which are indiscriminately cross-posted, which espouse a certain point of view or side of a debate, or which are selectively sent only to those who are believed to hold the same opinion as you. Remember to respect Wikipedia's principle of consensus-building by allowing decisions to reflect the prevailing opinion among the community at large. In particular, posting a notice only on Wikipedia Talk:Systemic bias does not appear to reflect a nonpartisan distribution in posting notifications. Thank you. — Mikehawk10 (talk) 21:36, 26 June 2021 (UTC)


 * WP:BIAS is by definition a topic aimed at avoiding the well-documented demographic bias in en.Wikipedia. Boud (talk) 00:38, 27 June 2021 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Society for Development and Change


The article Society for Development and Change has been proposed for deletion&#32;because of the following concern: "I can't find WP:SIGCOV of this organization in multiple RS. I see some trivial mentions in reliable sources, such as The Independent, but I don't see multiple in-depth citations from reliable, independent sources. As such, I think it fails WP:GNG and WP:NGO."

While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, pages may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the page to address the issues raised. Removing will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. — Mikehawk10 (talk) 07:06, 27 June 2021 (UTC)

August Editathons at Women in Red
--Megalibrarygirl (talk) 22:24, 23 July 2021 (UTC) via MassMessaging

DYK for Rukhshana Media
— Maile (talk) 00:02, 24 August 2021 (UTC)

Precious
You are recipient no. 2644 of Precious, a prize of QAI. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:51, 24 August 2021 (UTC)

Thank you! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:35, 24 August 2021 (UTC)

Eritrea
Probably not enough for an SPI, given the time passed, but does from 2016 sound familiar to you? BubbaJoe123456 (talk) 15:22, 11 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Interesting. There are quite a few similarities in specific and general style and in topic, though my feeling is that there are also a few characteristic differences. This is just intuitive - I haven't tried using any proper statistical tools. picked up some SPs last time around when I failed to be sufficiently sceptical. Boud (talk) 19:46, 11 October 2021 (UTC)

Vandalism of page on Menelik II
Hello, I am in dispute with another editor User_talk:Mooproop1. This regards the page Menelik II. Would you look into the matter and advise? Rastakwere (talk) 05:08, 16 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Each of us has limited experience, and the context of the Tigray genocide is the wider context of hate speech being encouraged in Ethiopia. The assumption of Wikipedia since two decades ago is that assuming good faith and giving people a chance to learn is not just a matter of idealism, but it can work in practice, especially when there are many third-party people checking the full record of what's going on. But third-party people need evidence. Mooproop1 may not have been aware of the concept of hate speech and the fact that it's unacceptable and that hate speech itself plays a role in the ten stages of genocide. I've to the List of ethnic slurs page so that people unfamiliar with the term can understand that it's offensive. I also warned Mooproop1 on his/her talk page. While it can be difficult to assume good faith, you could try starting a section at Talk:Menelik II and asking Mooproop1 to justify why s/he thinks that the sources are invalid. (BTW: the link for the user's contributions is Special:Contributions/Mooproop1). You could consider a WP:3RR warning if the user continues rapidly removing well-sourced material and/or using hate speech in edit summaries. Boud (talk) 09:30, 16 October 2021 (UTC)


 * THis Rastawarke guy keeps putting fake oromo news on the menelik page about aanollee without citing any reputable sources. Can you warn or ban them as they are spreading hate. I've provided my sources and yet he keep reverting it back — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mooproop1 (talk • contribs) 23:42, 16 October 2021 (UTC)


 * I have started a talk page section where you, Rastakwere, and others can discuss this editing dispute. Please read the 'assume good faith' guideline. You need to assume that Rastakwere has checked the sources and believes that the text is justified by the sources, and you should not make claims that s/he is deliberately spreading hate. Please also read WP:TALK about editing talk pages. You should not delete material on someone else's talk page as, and you should sign your comment with four tildes: ~ . Focus on the content of the editing and the quality and content of the sources, rather than attacking other editors. The location for discussion should most reasonably be Talk:Menelik II. Thanks. Boud (talk) 01:30, 17 October 2021 (UTC)

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Nomination of 2020 May Kado massacre (2nd nomination) for deletion
A discussion is taking place as to whether the article 2020 May Kado massacre (2nd nomination) is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Articles for deletion/2020 May Kado massacre (2nd nomination) until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article. Dawit S Gondaria (talk) 05:13, 18 November 2021 (UTC)

Request for review
Hi there, I am writing you to ask whether you could help me with the review of the page European Partnership for Democracy, on which I've been working on so that it fits with the community standards. I would be grateful if your expertise could help me enhancing it again, if it needs to, or if you could validate the publication. Thank you in advance for your consideration. Coffeebreak12 16:18, 23 November 2021 (CET) 23

Follow up on your comments
Hi Boud, thank you very much for having taken the time to answer me in the talk page of European Partnership for Democracy. I truly agree with your comments -- I've been trying to include the more external sources as possible, but unlike NED/IRI/NDI/USAID that you mentioned, the EPD is a network of NGOs relying on funding from various donors, mainly from the EU (The Secretariat support the actions of its members towards the EU institutions, both in terms of advocacy and fundraising). The only researchers that spoke about EPD are already included in the draft article. Find below some additonal sources that could help editing the article. At the EU level, EPD works in coalition with other European NGOs to work on democracy related issues of the EU - for example, recently by recommending actions on the EU Rule of Law report, or co-organise events with various stakeholders such as policymakers and civil society. Actions on the ground are mainly about civil society support (capacity building, helping advocacy coalitions etc) and depends on the funding opportunities (EPD answers to call for proposals to this extent) and cooperation between local CSOs and governmental authorities (for example, on issues related to media development in Kyrgyzstan through the project Media Dialogue. On the other hand, the approach to policy dialogue promoted by EPD (through advocacy and project) is inclusive and participatory (see a recently published paper on the topic that seeks to frame policy dialogue methodogolies in international cooperation). To further answer specifically on your questions, EPD's view on digital democracy is to have democratic principles in the digital sphere, including in the rules that govern the online public sphere. EPD supports open data (through the Charter Project Africa ), advocates for transparency in paid add advertising (through research and advocacy ) to give a few examples. I did not thought of including these information before because I understood Wikipedia article standarts as primarly focused on dictionnary-like information (general and not anecdotic information to keep the article short and concise).

Best regards, Coffeebreak12 14:56, 24 November 2021 (CET)


 * hi again . You were probably right to put this reply on my user talk page, since to some degree it's a discussion between you and I about what's relevant, and risked being a bit distracting to others. However, the list of references itself probably could have been put directly on the EPD talk page, since more people will be interested in checking the URLs themselves and judging if they have notable information in them. In some sense, a raw list of URLs is more neutral for someone in your situation than a full discussion, because you let the others decide what they see as notable information in them, rather than debating which of my questions are the most relevant. Of course, in that case you would not have had your response directly linked to the references. In any case, no harm done. :)By the way, if you use structures on a talk page, better put within the same section so that the references remain in the section; otherwise, they will slide to the bottom of the page each time a new section is started. You can do an "edit" of this page and then cancel without saving to see how I've done it here.As for "dictionary-like, general, not anecdotic" information: it's true that anecdotes don't constitute general knowledge. However, concrete, well-sourced information tends to be better accepted by Wikipedians than more abstract general claims that require a lot more judgment and interpretation, and have to have good sources to avoid WP:SYNTHESIS. Until academics publish peer-reviewed information on a topic, overviews tend to be risky and have to be limited to summaries. Boud (talk) 15:55, 24 November 2021 (UTC)

Hi again ! Thank you for your mentoring in this process -- I've included into my references, I hope it helps. I understand that it's relevant to provide these links to editors -- thank you by the way to redirect potentiel editors from the page of Talk Page of EPD to yours. I've been kind of struggling making it right for the past weeks, and I am really thankful for your help in this review/approval process. I mainly aim at updating the information because the current page is really out to date and provides for inacurate information. It's very interesting though to participate in the Wiki community and to get familiar with writing standards and address to one another -- a full new world for me. I remain at your disposal to provide you with any information on my edits' proposals, if any. Best, Coffeebreak12 17:36, 24 November 2021 (CET)

Hi again  I hope this message finds you well. I really appreciate that you started to review my changes in the page of EPD and I hope that other editors will continue reviewing my change. For the sake of love to academia and definitions, I just would like to build on your comment in the edit histoiry, saying that we should prefer the use of "democracy promotion" rather than "democracy support" -- which is a page that does not exist and is not a wide concept in your view. First, please note that in the page of Democracy promotion, it's written "can also be referred to as democracy assistance, democracy support". We at EPD use the word democracy support, because this wording defines our work more than "democracy promotion". Democracy support is a bottom up movement building on the needs of civil society in the ground, joint contextual analsysis and shared objectives. On the other hand, "democracy promotion" is connoted with the idea of an external support and influence coming from a third party regardless of policies and programmes ownership on the ground. Many international organisations such as the OECD or the European Parliament speak of the field with the term of "democracy support". Thanks for the discussion, hope it's interesting for you. Best, Coffeebreak12 17:31, 30 November 2021 (CET)

Hi there, thanks for the discussion on the talk page of Democracy promotion. I would like to raise something in relation to your change in the page of EPD - you put between quotation marks the word "partnerships", to deal with the work in EU partners country. I am not sure that it is the best way to convey this idea, because it may imply irony and self denomination while it's not the case in fact. When 'EU partners countries' are named as such, it means that the actions implemented in these countries is within the framework of agreements and partnerships between the EU and third countries. For example, with the Organisation of African, Caribbean and Pacific States, and Eastern Partnership countries, [], Armenia-EU Comprehensive and Enhanced Partnership Agreement. These imply joint agenda and establishment of funding priorities, hence I think you can probably remove the quotation mark.

To continue our discussion on the distinction between democracy support and promotion, these frameworks establish win-win relationships - unlike the negative history of the understanding of "democracy promotion" may imply (e.g. Iraq)

Best, Coffeebreak12 10:35, 1 December 2021 (CET)


 * The quotes are indeed risky, because they risk being scare quotes. I had assumed that this was jargon rather than well-defined terminology, but partnership does seem to define the word, so I put that instead as a Wikipedia intrawikilink. ✅ As for the question of whether the partnerships and democracy support within them are genuinely win-win relationships or not, from a Wikipedia point of view, that's up to third-party sources to judge. Boud (talk) 10:50, 1 December 2021 (UTC)

url-status versus url-access
(If you already know this tip, then skip over it.) I notice that you like to add archive.org/web links to citations. One request that I have is that if you are making up a citation to a website that requires a subscription to read the article (nytimes.com and independent.co.uk come to mind; though I don't recall you using those two much) that instead of using |url-status=live you instead use |url-access=subscription. When Wikipedia displays the citation, it will offer up the archived version first. Usually the archive version will access the entire article without needing a subscription. (I don't know why; maybe they have agreements with Internet Archive.) Anyway, it's something to keep an eye out for. I rarely add archived links to live pages, but I always do this for New York Times citations (because otherwise I cannot read the article).

Also, thank you for removing a "the" in front of a university name. I have long since noticed that most Americans obsessively add "the" in front of just about everything, even when it isn't necessary. Platonk (talk) 04:57, 27 November 2021 (UTC)


 * Hi I have no objections to adding url-access=subscription to articles that are paywalled, but I prefer to do this in addition to the url-status=live and archive for the article.However, I don't think it's justified for me to add url-access=subscription for a reference for which I have no evidence about the paywalling. The paywall-blocking mechanisms are apparently quite sensitive to what sort of javascript or cookies or browser parameters are set in the user's browser (including geolocation info, for example). If someone else allows some cookies or third-party javascript and finds that the page is paywalled as a result of that, then I think it's up to him/her to add the url-access=subscription tag.The reason for archiving all sources, including live pages, is that the world-wide-web is volatile. In the early part of the web epoch, even a few mainstream Western media switched their web server software without putting in redirects to old URLs - after all, for a serious newspaper to have web pages at all was quite radical - and the old pages either disappeared completely or became quite difficult to find. Archiving provides, to some degree, an increased confidence in having a long-term record of the source by a more-or-less independent web archiver (see digital preservation, for example). Boud (talk) 14:38, 27 November 2021 (UTC)


 * I didn't realize those two parameters could reside simulataneously. I thought I got an error message when I tried that before, indicating they were mutually exclusive, but I could be wrong. No matter.


 * I agree about how volatile some links are. I also read somewhere that Internet Archive and Wikipedia work together in that when you add a link to an article in Wikipedia, within a short period of time IA sees that and archives the link. I don't think IA did years ago, but I've seen this behavior somewhat. For example, I'm looking for an archive link to add to a WP article and I find that the IA archiving started shortly after someone added the original URL to the WP article (which could be months or years after the source article was published). So that confirmed for me that IA and WP were cooperating. I've seen someone else being scolded for adding too many archived link (on the basis that it bloated a large article, maybe?); didn't know if it was some sort of unwritten rule. So I don't routinely add them, but I don't object to others doing so.


 * Yes, of course you wouldn't add url-access=subscription if you didn't know there's a paywall. Most people don't even know there's that parameter, though, and you're the only editor I've seen who routinely adds IA links. I'm always annoyed when people who have subscriptions to NYTimes add links that then I cannot read. I have to copy the link, open IA, paste the link, select a version, open the IA copy (slow website, that), then decide if I want to add the link to the WP article or not. And that's just to read something I was interested in (because I do use WP for my own interests, even if I'm not in an editing mood). Well, I guess I should be greatful to at least have a workaround to getting an NYT subscription.


 * Thanks for the reminder about how those sites determine whether or not to block readers. I can imagine geolocation being used by some websites. There's a small local newspaper that uses cookies and people are always complaining on Facebook they can't read it; all they have to do is delete their cookies and they'll get to access another few articles for free. Ta! Platonk (talk) 19:57, 27 November 2021 (UTC)


 * If you use firefox, then you might want to consider uMatrix and/or uBlock Origin. Unfortunately, I seem to remember an announcement a few months ago by the main uMatrix developer that s/he was stopping maintenance, which is a pity, because the red/green 'matrix' type interface is very intuitive and easy to use (you do need to experiment a bit with clicking). Boud (talk) 20:17, 27 November 2021 (UTC)

New message from Ue3lman
You are invited to join the discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Ethiopia. Ue3lman (talk) 05:02, 6 December 2021 (UTC)

AGF
Please do not attack other editors, as you did at Talk:EHRC. Comment on content, not on contributors. Personal attacks damage the community and deter users. Please stay cool and keep this in mind while editing. That was like the fourth or fifth similarly disrespectful tirade of yours I've read. I hope to never again read one of these. Platonk (talk) 00:25, 7 December 2021 (UTC)
 * That was a comment describing concern about the action, not the person. Try reading WP:BIAS: it's about a statistical demographical bias. Boud (talk) 05:49, 7 December 2021 (UTC)

Nonsense. I'm not going to discuss or argue the WP:Systemic bias essay with you because this isn't about the other editor's edit, it is about how you handled yourself in this situation, causing me and another editor to get involved to deal with it.

Recap: You made a change to a decade-old redirect to co-opt it into a disambiguation page with a flimsy edit summary. An editor with 10-times your edit experience reverts it. That is considered a challenge to your edit. But instead of you following WP:BRD advice ("Discuss the contribution, and the reasons for the contribution, on the article's talk page with the person who reverted your contribution. Don't restore your changes or engage in back-and-forth reverting.") you escalate the situation by reverting them with a snide edit summary. They respond by reverting you with a matching sarcastic edit summary, you revert them and this time you demand she explain herself instead of you explaining yourself. She doesn't return to explain or answer you, but you're not done with her yet. You then post your invectives on both Talk:Tigray War and Talk:EHRC. You express yourself like a tantrum, call her reverts "racist", suggest she is from some "rich country" and her act of reverting your edit was "a pure case of [such] bias".

At that point you were no closer to understanding why she reverted your original edit, and despite your tirade — which was disturbing to read even though it wasn't directed at me — I offered you a perfectly logical explanation of that editor's actions that indicated no bias on their part.

So yes, you were assuming bad faith of her edits, insulting her personally, and showing your contempt for your fellow editor who you perceive as different from yourself. No, Boud, you weren't focusing on content but on that editor's person, because you were making assumptions about that editor's background and intentions.

This wasn't the first time you used these insults. The last time I recall you using these sorts of terms was in the RSN about tghat.com just two weeks ago, but I know I've read them elsewhere, too, in the last month. I wasn't able to find them yet, but in my searching I discovered other discussions as far back as the mid-2000s complaining about how you were inappropriately bandying about the term or concepts of "racist" and "bias". I highly suggest you check your personal POV at the door before entering Wikipedia editor space. And please refresh your understanding of WP:Civility and WP:PA to see how in the future you could contribute to a more pleasant editing environment within Wikipedia.

Platonk (talk) 20:29, 8 December 2021 (UTC)


 * You made a change to a decade-old redirect to co-opt it into a disambiguation page with a flimsy edit summary. I disagree with "flimsy". The edit summary was just one word, but I saw no reason for there to be any controversy about switching to a disambiguation page. An edit summary does not need to be detailed if the reason is clear.
 * 10-times your edit experience Unreal7 vs Boud. 10 times my number of edits, true, and 47 edits per day, compared to my 3 edits per day. Less experience than me in terms of years editing. Typically smaller edits: mean edit size 132 bytes, vs me at 434 bytes.
 * you escalate the situation by reverting them An experienced editor can make a mistake, especially one who edits on average 47 times a day; reverting a mistake is not an escalation. I can make mistakes too, of course.
 * with a snide edit summary There is nothing snide in "this is a world encyclopedia, not the UK encyclopedia". That is your interpretation of my brief description of statistical demographic bias in the context of the particular article being edited. The bias is well-known and there's no easy or magic solution. Here you are violating WP:AGF by adding your misinterpretation of my comment.
 * They respond by reverting you with a matching sarcastic edit summary, I fail to see any sarcasm in "It's not the Ethiopian one either. This is a two dabs situation." The first sentence is clear: it's a fair comment that this is not the ET.encyclopedia. The second sentence is unclear: there's no disambiguation policy that I could find that forbids having a disambiguation page point to two articles, in a situation with no obvious justification for one being the "main" article, and where either could reasonably be the article that the reader is looking for.
 * you demand she explain herself instead of you explaining yourself. I made a guess as to the likely outcome of consensus and opened up a discussion, inviting Unreal7 to participate if she wished to.
 * post your invectives I do not see any invective in my comments; "repeated attempts" seems objective to me - where is the inaccuracy? The references to WP:BIAS and the main argument for having a disambiguation page are as above - the statistical bias is known and documented. It doesn't imply anything about the particular editor. The adjective racist is, per Wiktionary, "1. Constituting, exhibiting, advocating or pertaining to racism" or "2. Discriminatory.". This does not say anything about intentions. It's about behaviour as part of a statistical pattern by many people. The link was to the page on the statistical behaviour by large groups of editors. It said and implied nothing about intentions. Obviously, there are contexts in which "racist" refers to claims of intentional behaviour, but there's no hint of that at WP:BIAS.
 * So yes, you were assuming bad faith of her edits, insulting her personally, No, that's a false statement. I only described her edits as being consistent with a statistical pattern of the Wikipedia editor community in general. There were no personal insults against her.
 * you were making assumptions about that editor's background and intentions. No. I now see what Unreal7 says briefly about her background, and I have no reason to doubt that. At the time, I had no idea what her background was, and I made no assumption about her background; I only saw the editing events. I made no statement and implied nothing about her intentions or her background.
 * I think the core misunderstanding here is about WP:BIAS as a statistical demographic phenomenon. It doesn't imply bad intentions by individuals.


 * WP:CIVIL. Yes, I would suggest that you read it too. Claiming that I had bad intentions and was snide and used invectives in my comments is a matter of your interpretation, i.e. these are hypotheses from your side, they don't look like attempts at clarification: "First of all, consider whether you and the other editor may simply have misunderstood each other. Clarify, and ask for clarification."
 * Civility. True.


 * Boud (talk) 23:05, 8 December 2021 (UTC)

January 2022 Women in Red
--Megalibrarygirl (talk) 16:02, 28 December 2021 (UTC) via MassMessaging

Nomination for deletion of Template:GNU social
Template:GNU social has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the entry on the Templates for discussion page. – Jonesey95 (talk) 15:05, 3 January 2022 (UTC)

Creating Kazakh unrest or uprising redirect
Hello, Boud. I seen in your WP:RM on talk page that you have purposed moving the page from 2022 Kazakh protests to 2022 Kazakh uprising, but there are clearly two arguments whether the page moved or not was divided into two sides supporting only one word, someone supporting "uprising", including you as nominator, and others who supporting page move as 2022 Kazakh unrest.

The pages you want to purpose to move have not yet created (redlink), so why not creating redirect pages (2022 Kazakh uprising and 2022 Kazakh unrest) in anticipation of page move consensus? 125.167.59.48 (talk) 00:43, 10 January 2022 (UTC)


 * A good reason not to create them (yet) is technical, to avoid creating extra work. If a page Y already exists, then page X cannot be moved to Y. The technical operation of a "move" is to keep all the editing history (and talk page) the same - only the name is changed, from X to Y. But if page Y already exists (as a redirect), then extra technical help is needed to first delete page Y, and then carry out the page move from X to Y. See Redirect for more discussion. After an uninvolved person has closed the discussion and (depending on the result) made the page move, then making redirects will be reasonable. Boud (talk) 01:20, 10 January 2022 (UTC)

New message from Ue3lman
You are invited to join the discussion at Talk:Maekelay Zone § Requested move 28 January 2022. Ue3lman (talk) 21:25, 28 January 2022 (UTC)

February with Women in Red
--Megalibrarygirl (talk) 15:09, 31 January 2022 (UTC) via MassMessaging

WP:EW
Yo, I'm hoping we won't see any more of this nonsense from you. There isn't anything like a consensus for the change on talk and never was, and the proposal had been clearly contested at the time you tried to force it back through, and I know you knew that at the time you did this since you had already replied. Split warring is hugely disruptive and doubly inappropriate in a subject area that is under discretionary sanctions. VQuakr (talk) 22:32, 23 February 2022 (UTC)


 * It does seem that I might have misestimated the likely consensus. Boud (talk) 23:21, 23 February 2022 (UTC) (edit: more conditional) Boud (talk) 00:10, 24 February 2022 (UTC)
 * On the other hand, the WP:SPLIT is now clear: 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine, 2022 anti-war protests in Russia, List of military engagements during the 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine, Cities and towns during the Russo-Ukrainian War, Timeline of the 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine. Boud (talk) 17:54, 25 February 2022 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:COVID-19 pandemic data/Europe medical cases
Template:COVID-19 pandemic data/Europe medical cases has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the entry on the Templates for discussion page. Nigej (talk) 16:16, 25 February 2022 (UTC)

March editathons
--Megalibrarygirl (talk) 16:37, 27 February 2022 (UTC) via MassMessaging

A barnstar for your efforts
Thank you! Listening to the charity concert mentioned here. I created the articles of the composer and the soprano. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:20, 10 March 2022 (UTC)

Now, you can also listen on YouTube, and more music, the piece by Anna Korsun begins after about one hour, and the voices call "Freiheit!" (freedom, instead of "Freude", joy). Music every day, pictured in songs. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:29, 14 March 2022 (UTC)

The Prayer on the Main page, finally + new flowers --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:59, 23 March 2022 (UTC)

Warning for disruptive edits on War Crimes in the 2022 Russian Invasion of Ukraine
Please stop your disruptive editing. If you continue to disrupt Wikipedia, as you did at War crimes in the 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine, you may be blocked from editing. Chesapeake77 (talk) 01:14, 15 March 2022 (UTC)
 * If you are engaged in an article content dispute with another editor, discuss the matter with the editor at their talk page, or the article's talk page, and seek consensus with them. Alternatively you can read Wikipedia's dispute resolution page, and ask for independent help at one of the relevant noticeboards.
 * If you are engaged in any other form of dispute that is not covered on the dispute resolution page, seek assistance at Wikipedia's Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents.


 * I would recommend that you read the comments of other editors at Talk:war crimes in the 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine, and try to read both WP:WTRMT and WP:WNTRMT more carefully. Boud (talk) 01:27, 15 March 2022 (UTC)

Nomination of Mark Bernstein (Wikimedian) for deletion
A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Mark Bernstein (Wikimedian) is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Articles for deletion/Mark Bernstein (Wikimedian) until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article. LaserLegs (talk) 13:55, 17 March 2022 (UTC)

April Editathons from Women in Red
--Megalibrarygirl (talk) 22:44, 22 March 2022 (UTC) via MassMessaging

Geographical bias of sources
Following the closed discussion at the Bucha massacre talk page, there remains a fundamental difficulty, though I don't see it affecting that particular page. For Bucha massacre, we already have 5 Russian references (3 reliable, 2 unreliable; and 4 Middle Eastern (reliable)), and other specific "non-NATO" sources can be discussed there if their reliability is controversial.The broader question is that there are purely statistical analyses that show systematic differences in the probability of publishing false data by government agencies from around the world. For example, the worse the Reporters Without Borders Press Freedom Index is for a country, the more statistically suspicious (on average) the country's COVID-19 pandemic daily infection count data are. The results are not purely NATO vs non-NATO, since Turkey is in the list of the countries with the most statistically dubious data, i.e. (depending on which of the two analyses you look at) Algeria, Tajikistan, Turkey, Russia, Belarus, Uzbekistan. See Reliability of open government data for the question of how Wikipedia should handle open government data (typically, numerical data), which, in principle, should be less subject to political interference, as opposed to news type information, which is more likely to be affected by political interference. The peer-reviewed research papers listed here do their primary analysis based purely on the statistical properties of the data. The consequence of these analyses is that, unfortunately, there is a difficult-to-avoid playoff between favouring reliable sources versus minimising geographical bias. The countries whose mainstream media currently dominate en.Wikipedia are those with unsuspicious COVID-19 data; this makes it difficult to work against the existing geographical bias. And in the essay, there's an open question for Wikipedia more specifically, especially for infoboxes - do we sufficiently well warn readers of the difference between official data and reliable data, especially in the case where official data is dubious? In what ways should or could we handle the specific case of official versus reliable data? Please edit the essay directly if you have any good ideas, where it will be more useful than here... Boud (talk) 21:59, 6 April 2022 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the mention, and for the link to the article on geographical bias. Some time ago I was thinking that seemed like an important question to look into and cover; I'm glad there's already work being done. I started typing out some thoughts yesterday, and have now put those in a very much not-quite-fleshed-out state at Reliability_of_open_government_data/Intralexical%27s_Response. Not putting anything in the main essay yet as I'm not sure if any of it counts as "good ideas", and I would want to put more thought into it and flesh it out more in any case. Not sure when or if that will happen, so also feel free to take from the draft if you see anything you like. Intralexical (talk) 20:58, 7 April 2022 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the comments! :) I put some point-by-point responses at Wikipedia talk:Reliability of open government data, and I made several edits to the essay itself based on your response. Boud (talk) 17:14, 8 April 2022 (UTC)

Wikipedia:WikiProject Women in Red/Metrics/April 2022
Women in Red metrics pages are bot-driven. Ideally users will not edit the page to add articles, but rely on the bot process. diff thx. --Tagishsimon (talk) 23:25, 17 April 2022 (UTC)

Nomination of Sexual violence in the 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine for deletion
A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Sexual violence in the 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Articles for deletion/Sexual violence in the 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article. Curbon7 (talk) 07:28, 19 April 2022 (UTC)


 * As a personal note, this isn't meant unkindly at all, and isn't a reflection of my view of you as an editor (of which I view you as a very good editor). I really appreciate the hard work you've done, I just feel this article was created far too soon. Curbon7 (talk) 07:32, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

May Women in Red events
--Megalibrarygirl (talk) 16:51, 30 April 2022 (UTC) via MassMessaging

June events from Women in Red
--Megalibrarygirl (talk) 09:19, 31 May 2022 (UTC) via MassMessaging

ANI or AE?
Thank you for your comment here, which looks helpful. I have a very vague idea about the differences between ANI and AE, and I had been wondering all the afternoon about the reason why Black Kite suggested that AE is the appropriate venue. Conciseness is not my main virtue but I think I can manage to summarise my main quarrels in 500 words. It won't be easy: it's a pattern (I argue) of incivility and tendentiousness, not a few edits. If you have any practical suggestion as to how to proceed, I'd be grateful. In any case (I imagine) it will be necessary to wait for the closure of that discussion at ANI - or am I wrong? Gitz (talk) (contribs) 22:46, 22 June 2022 (UTC)
 * My guess is that Wikipedia talk:Administrators' noticeboard is a good place for the meta-question of how to withdraw your ANI complaint (I assume that's possible) so that you can open an AE request. Conciseness is often not easy, but without that, uninvolved people don't have the time to make any useful assessments. Boud (talk) 23:24, 22 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your reply. After a long thought and this conversation with Alex Bakharev, I decided not to pursue the matter further. If in the future I will have new reasons for believing that Volunteer Marek doesn't comply with WP:CIV, WP:AGF and WP:DIS, I will follow your advise and raise the issue at AE. Best, Gitz (talk) (contribs) 12:59, 24 June 2022 (UTC)
 * For what it's worth, the cases I did at WP:AE are this one and this one, both concerning the same user. I found the declaration of the result in the first case quite appalling: the admins (or at least the closer) didn't seem to have actually checked the match between claims and evidence by myself and the other editor, and the closer called my behaviour "substandard" and I was "cautioned to moderate" my behaviour (along with the other editor). My only reasonable interpretation is that the admins read the editor's claims without checking the evidence properly. This is possibly because it was difficult to understand the editor's behavioural problem without having sufficient understanding of the editorial conflict. In the second case, an admin at least gave me the chance to explain to him/her how to check the validity of the troublesome editor's claims. So despite my huge investment of time and patience, and presentation of evidence that the editor was repeatedly making false or misleading statements, which makes rational discussion extremely confusing and tiring, there were no formal sanctions against the editor.However, my huge investment of time (the whole process was several months for the first WP:AE + an RfC + the second WP:AE) did actually give results: the editor's behaviour became a bit more constrained after the first WP:AE, and one admin made one highly significant statement regarding a key content issue during the second WP:AE, which was enough to convince the editor that s/he would have to accept NPOV on that key content issue.The long-term (a year or so) effect seems to be stable in terms of Wikipedia content, but I admit that the effort was exhausting. It was concerned with the existence (around 2021) or non-existence of about 3 million people in a particular country (population 3 million versus population 6 million), so it was probably worth it for people interested in that part of knowledge. (Of course, if more, sufficiently experienced and patient editors with basic understanding of what distinguishes a good quality source of demographic information from a low quality source had been involved, the issue would have ended up as NPOV in a few days instead of several months.) Boud (talk) 16:53, 24 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Thank you for sharing those links. Your past experiences are such as to moderate my most warlike spirits - I really don't want to go through all that! However, if there's a problem one needs to address it somehow, otherwise one becomes angry and rude in the long run, or just stops editing. Maybe one problem of that dispute of yours was that it required a relatively high level of technical expertise from the editors: consensus among uninformed people may be a problematic way of producing knowledge. At War crimes in Ukraine, on the other hand, everybody could in principle read the sources and express a meaningful view on how to best summarise their contents. In fact, I strongly believe that the best way for de-escalating that conflict would be to bring in more editors - I mean, editors who have a detached, objective approach to the subject, editors who at least try to have such an approach, and who could help containing the few vociferous ones that have an entirely different way of editing Wikipedia. Gitz (talk) (contribs) 13:26, 25 June 2022 (UTC)

Women in Red in July 2022
--Lajmmoore (talk) 15:45, 27 June 2022 (UTC) via MassMessaging

War crimes in the 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine has an RFC
War crimes in the 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine has an RFC for possible consensus. A discussion is taking place. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments on the discussion page. Thank you. Gitz (talk) (contribs) 11:58, 6 July 2022 (UTC)

Merger discussion for 2022 Sri Lankan political crisis
An article that you have been involved in editing&mdash;2022 Sri Lankan political crisis&mdash;has been proposed for merging with another article. If you are interested, please participate in the merger discussion. Thank you. Sgnpkd (talk) 21:37, 25 July 2022 (UTC)

Women in Red in August 2022
--Lajmmoore (talk) 10:57, 29 July 2022 (UTC) via MassMessaging

Pokalchuk
Hi Boud. The DAB page Pokalchuk (disambiguation) is malplaced because DAB pages should be at the base name if there is no primary topic. If you don't object, I would like to move the contents to Pokalchuk and either keep it as a DAB page, or make it a surname page. What do you think? Leschnei (talk) 18:12, 6 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Go ahead either way, shifting to Pokalchuk as either a DAB or a surname page. I did actually suspect that I did this the wrong way around - I scanned through WP:DISAMBIG too rapidly... Thanks in advance for the cleanup. :) Boud (talk) 18:18, 6 August 2022 (UTC)
 * No worries. I've changed it to a surname page. Leschnei (talk) 19:19, 6 August 2022 (UTC)

Women in Red in September 2022
--Lajmmoore (talk) 15:34, 31 August 2022 (UTC) via MassMessaging

Thanks
Hello, Boud! I just wanted to thank you for the recent edits on the 2022 Ukrainian southern counteroffensive. I had evidently misread the source, so good that you recognized this and corrected it! Sometimes I should rush less when working on article updates... Applodion (talk) 22:04, 31 August 2022 (UTC)

Women in Red October 2022
--Lajmmoore (talk) 14:58, 29 September 2022 (UTC) via MassMessaging

Women in Red November 2022
--Lajmmoore (talk) 17:32, 26 October 2022 (UTC) via MassMessaging

Nomination of Dominika Lasota for deletion
A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Dominika Lasota is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Articles for deletion/Dominika Lasota until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article until the discussion has finished. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 03:33, 2 November 2022 (UTC)

Nomination of Nadia Oleszczuk for deletion
A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Nadia Oleszczuk is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Articles for deletion/Nadia Oleszczuk until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article until the discussion has finished. The Wolak (talk) 08:34, 8 November 2022 (UTC)

Women in Red December 2022
--Lajmmoore (talk) 20:53, 26 November 2022 (UTC) via MassMessaging

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Women in Red January 2023
--Lajmmoore (talk) 18:00, 27 December 2022 (UTC) via MassMessaging


 * Just putting Finkbeiner test here for easy re-discovery, especially for men who become scientists or Wikipedians despite being surprised by the competitivity in their field. Boud (talk) 07:50, 4 January 2023 (UTC)

Women in Red in February 2023
--Lajmmoore (talk) 07:26, 30 January 2023 (UTC) via MassMessaging

Your edit war in Tabassum movement
Boud, I suggest you to stop your unreasonable edit war (WP:EDITWAR) against me in the article "Tabassum movement". Even if you're the major contributor to this article, it doesn't mean the article belongs only to you and other Wikipedia users need your permission to edit the article.

Your argument that putting all refs into Reflist is somehow much more "legible" and "easy to edit" doesn't hold water at all, because most of Wikipedia articles don't use your put-all-refs-into-Reflist format (use WP:VisualEditor instead of waging edit wars). You can put all refs into Reflist again, I don't mind it. However, if you continue to revert the whole edit (diff) because of your individual (and, IMO, debatable) preferences, then you leave me no choice but to ask Wikipedia administrators to be involved in this case.

I repeat again: the majority of Wikipedia articles don't use your "legible" and "easy-to-edit" way of putting all refs into Reflist. Don't use it as an excuse for edit warring. Russian Rocky (talk) 18:53, 2 February 2023 (UTC)


 * Majoritarianism is not an argument. There is no consensus implying that anyone should use VisualEditor.Editing that respects the work of other editors generally makes changes that can be reasonably easily checked using the differencing functions on the wiki source provided by MediaWiki software. Your shifting of the references into the main body and renaming the labels made any changes you made in sentence and paragraph structure hidden by the shifting of the references.I'm sorry if my edit reversed some of your content changes, but those were camouflaged by your shifting of the references. If you want to use something like VisualEditor, then better use it in a way in which your changes are still easy to see if you want to avoid someone misinterpreting an edit like you seem to have done in this case. Your edit overwhelmingly looked like shifting references into the body, making any content changes difficult to see. If there is no option in VisualEditor to keep the references in the references section, then propose a wishlist item for VisualEditor to be fixed. People who use VisualEditor have to take responsibility for any damage done using it.In fact, it appears that look useful but only concern a few dozen bytes of wiki source. Let us not confuse the two different issues. Boud (talk) 22:25, 2 February 2023 (UTC)


 * It would be best to go to Talk:Tabassum movement my matching of source to content might be wrong. Boud (talk) 23:03, 2 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Boud, there is no "put all refs into Reflist and no other way" consensus either. It's definitely not a good reason for edit warring and calling names as if you know better than others what is and what isn't "more illegible and difficult to edit". Just because you personally prefer putting all refs into Reflist, it does NOT mean that it's more "legible" and "easy to edit" for others. And this isn't just about the article's size. You make it impossible for other editors to edit references in the "Section" mode. Because you put all refs into Reflist, other editors need to edit the whole text. It's a nightmare when an article is long.
 * And what damage are you talking about? You reverted the whole edit because you personally prefer putting all refs into Reflist. You literally said it in your edit summary, calling it your "bibliography". I didn't try to camouflage anything as you claim. I added categories, wikilinks, improved references (added author-links, dates, used proper cite templates, etc). I didn't know that touching your so-called "bibliography" in Reflist, which is visible only in the "Source editing" mode, would provoke you.
 * You've said "respect the work of other editors", but I've noticed that you arbitrarily put refs into Reflist in almost every article you edit (diff1, diff2, diff3, diff4, diff5, etc). What will happen if someone arbitrarily shifts another "bibliography" of yours into article text? Another edit war?
 * Sorry, I don't really get it. You tell other editors how to edit your article, but you yourself edit other editors' articles as you like.--Russian Rocky (talk) 06:36, 3 February 2023 (UTC)
 * impossible for other editors to edit references in the "Section" mode ... other editors need to edit the whole text: incorrect: the technique is to edit in a modular way: one edit to the body section, then one edit to the references section.There is no edit war; We appear to have converged.Thanks for the cooperation. Boud (talk) 08:19, 3 February 2023 (UTC)
 * My errors? Now you slander me with "four errors in matching content to sources [which] have been corrected by another editor after [you] pointed them out". Do you mean these edits (diff1, diff2) by User:Dl2000? FYI, Dl2000 fixed your errors after you copy-pasted your own old refs with old ref names (diff).
 * In my initial edit (diff), there were no errors. I can prove it for each of the four errors you slander me with:
 * 1) One of the victims was Shukria Tabassum, a nine-year-old girl. → One of the victims was Shukria Tabassum, a nine-year-old girl.
 * Dl2000 fixed your error. In my initial edit, the same sentence is the following: One of the victims was Shukria Tabassum, a nine-year-old girl.
 * Note: (in my initial edit) corresponds with  (in your edit)
 * 2) In reaction, on 11 November 2015, 2,000 –20,000 protestors marched → In reaction, on 11 November 2015, 2,000–20,000 protestors marched
 * Dl2000 fixed your error. In my initial edit, the same sentence is the following: In reaction, on 11 November 2015, 2,000 –20,000 protestors marched
 * Note: In the original version of your article, this sentence was the following: In reaction, on 11 November 2015, 2000 –20,000 protestors marched (diff).
 * 3) negotiations were held between some of the protestors and officials on the protestors' demands for improved security measures. → negotiations were held between some of the protestors and officials on the protestors' demands for improved security measures.
 * Dl2000 fixed your error. In my initial edit, the same sentence is the following: negotiations were held between some of the protestors and officials on the protestors' demands for improved security measures.
 * 4) The 11 November protest was self-managed and calm, with human chains formed at the sides of the march to leave pavements available for non-participating pedestrians. → The 11 November protest was self-managed and calm, with human chains formed at the sides of the march to leave pavements available for non-participating pedestrians.
 * Dl2000 fixed your error. In my initial edit, the same sentence is the following: The 11 November protest was self-managed and calm, with human chains formed at the sides of the march to leave pavements available for non-participating pedestrians.
 * And what "technique" are you talking about? Your "technique" means 2 edits each time. Do you think you have the right to lecture other editors how to edit Wikipedia articles? Russian Rocky (talk) 18:37, 3 February 2023 (UTC)
 * You and I disagreeing on how we think the content matches the sources is not a case of slander, it is a case of either you or I or both of us making errors. I've put a few strikethroughs above. In any case, convergence makes sense over at the talk page of the article.Regarding Wikipedia editing, there are many Wikipedians, and many disagreements on the best ways of editing. Boud (talk) 21:45, 3 February 2023 (UTC)
 * If the case is closed, then put strikethroughs in Talk:Tabassum movement as well (namely, "These errors can be seen in "). Your list of "my" 3 errors looks like an attempt to frame me. In fact, these errors first appeared in, not in . You now know it.
 * I don't want to be framed as if the reason of this edit war was my "errors" and you fixed them with the help of Dl2000. You're fully aware that the true reason was your personal preference of using the so-called "bibliography" reference format.--Russian Rocky (talk) 13:06, 4 February 2023 (UTC)
 * There was no edit war, and others will intepret our edits in the ways they wish, preferably according to WP:AGF for both of us. No "slander" and no "framing". See WP:AGF. You and I differ in what we see as editing in a way that makes it easier for other editors to see what has been changed. Neither you nor I are likely to persuade each other. Boud (talk) 14:02, 4 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Ok. Let's consider the case closed. It's counterproductive to waste each other's time any further. Regarding Cite Q, I think it has uncertain prospects in the English Wikipedia. As far as I'm aware, the English Wikipedia doesn't trust Wikidata due to vandalism concerns. That's why WP:Short descriptions were implemented, which in turn resulted in a permanent conflict with Wikidata's item descriptions (Wikidata's item descriptions "begin with a lowercase letter except when uppercase would normally be required or expected" while the English Wikipedia's short descriptions "start with a capital letter").--Russian Rocky (talk) 18:39, 4 February 2023 (UTC)

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Nomination for deletion of Ethiopian civil conflict (2018–present)
., Ethiopian civil conflict (2018–present) has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the the discussion page. Petra0922 (talk) 20:27, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

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BLP notice
Hello, I'm ElKevbo. I noticed that you made an edit concerning content related to a living (or recently deceased) person, but you didn't support your changes with a citation to a reliable source. It's been removed and archived in the page history for now. Wikipedia has a very strict policy concerning how we write about living people, so please help us keep such articles accurate and clear. If you think I made a mistake, or if you have any questions, you can leave me a message on my talk page. Thank you! ElKevbo (talk) 22:29, 12 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Which edit? Boud (talk) 22:32, 12 April 2023 (UTC)
 * You've recently made a few edits accusing someone of plagiarism. ElKevbo (talk) 22:35, 12 April 2023 (UTC)
 * I made some talk page edits showing text matches, with sources. I comment that they appear to be plagiarism, using the well-accepted definitions that do not require interpretation, and ask if there are external sources, since these are prominent people so the existence of external sources is likely. So I think what you're trying to say is not that you've reverted some of my edits, since at least at the time of, you had not reverted any of my edits, but instead that you're worried that those edits violate our BLP policy. Is that what you're trying to say? Boud (talk) 22:41, 12 April 2023 (UTC) Adding ping: . Boud (talk) 22:42, 12 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Yes. I haven't reverted the edits because I've asked administrators to delete them entirely so they're not visible in the edit histories; that's our typical approach for edits are serious violations of BLP. ElKevbo (talk) 22:52, 12 April 2023 (UTC)
 * So where's the discussion? Are you claiming that the discussion has to be offline to protection the reputations of those two people? While BLP applies to talk pages as well as article pages, the context is different. I understand your motivation, but this is not like accusing someone of rape or murder without sources - while copy/pasting without attribution is seen negatively, in this case there were sources show the exact copy/pastes. In any case, it would nice to be able to participate in the discussion rather than have this happen behind closed doors. Boud (talk) 23:00, 12 April 2023 (UTC) Sorry, forgot to ping:  . Boud (talk) 23:00, 12 April 2023 (UTC)
 * If there's a Libera irc channel to discuss this, given that some info may need to stay non-public, I could join now. Boud (talk) 23:09, 12 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Just to make things clear: I'm happy to go by whatever the consensus is, but so far I'm not convinced by "serious violations of BLP". Obviously, it's tricky to discuss details if the final decision is that they are BLP violations, because then this meta-discussion would have to be deleted. Boud (talk) 23:19, 12 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Whether copy/pastes are interpreted negatively or not is a matter of interpretation. The current state for the Ursula von der Leyen, for example, seems to be that the copy/pastes themselves are undisputed - the disagreement is about whether they are ethically acceptable or not. I'm not convinced that my brief comments risk convincing anyone to make interpretations of intentions one way or the other. Anyway, I'd be happy to chat over irc with BLP admins for off-the-record discussion. Boud (talk) 23:37, 12 April 2023 (UTC)
 * ✅ Seems like case closed. Sorry for people wishing to read details, but BLP issues cannot always be discussed on-wiki. In any case, while the initial comment above was a standard template, leading to confusion, the bottom line is that there was a de facto consensus. Boud (talk) 22:26, 23 April 2023 (UTC)

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Charles III requested move discussion
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November 2023
Hello. This is a message to let you know that you have made an edit summary or a comment that did not appear to be appropriate, civil, or otherwise constructive, and it may have been removed. If you think a mistake was made, or if you have any questions, you can leave me a message on my talk page. Thank you. Please do not use edit summaries like invitation for those objecting to the anti-advocacy RfC to contribute constructively rather than complain. We are all here to contribute constructively. O3000, Ret. (talk) 22:52, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
 * If you look through the full set of comments on the initial RfC, I think that you will find complaints. Several of the comments were constructive, and several included complaints. I am assuming that all of you aim to be constructive, and the evidence of that will be seen in any edits. WP:CIVIL applies to all of us. Thanks! :) Boud (talk) 23:04, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
 * The problem with edit summaries is that you often cannot respond like that in another edit summary. O3000, Ret. (talk) 23:44, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Fair point. There are some cases where empty edits are accepted (e.g. to fix a major problem in your own edit comment), but using empty edits to respond to previous edit comments by other people would be extremely disruptive. Boud (talk) 23:47, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks for not replying that we shouldn't template the regulars. But, I'm lazy and it's easier than typing. O3000, Ret. (talk) 01:06, 12 November 2023 (UTC)

Refseek
How goes it? Hi I saw your RFC at WP:VPR. I'm pretty much in agreement with you. I always thought the recent limitations of google, along with the "Don't do evil" thing which went went up in smoke 2008-2009 is a good reason not to exclusively indicate its use at the find sources template. I started using which should be on the list. Its a much more academically orientated search engine. There is specialised search engines that don't see the light of day on here. I would also like to see archives on it, for example archives.org. What is current state of the RFC. It seems a bit chaotic. It looks as though its being reformed?  scope_creep Talk  16:56, 21 November 2023 (UTC)
 * I took a break for a few days with the hope of depersonalising the discussion away from focussing on me personally. I'm about to have a look at what progress has been made about seeing if there's consensus on what the format of the RfC itself should be...As for Refseek itself, it doesn't (yet?) seem to be Wikipedia-notable, and the About and Contact pages give no hint about who organises it or how it's run. 7.i of Terms of Use hints that there's a relation to Princeton University, but in any case, independent WP:RS would be needed. I do see at least one academic source and some others, so it might be Wikipedia-notable. Boud (talk) 18:39, 21 November 2023 (UTC)
 * I never thought about those aspects. I'm still on surface I guess. I never bothered looking to see who ran it. I've found it quite useful and seems to find stuff that Google doesn't care to share. It will be interested to see how you get on. I've been wanted to change that template for more than a decade. There seems to be quite a few of these new search engines. I don't mind mucking in to create new articles on any of this stuff, assuming its notable to advance your project.    scope_creep Talk  18:50, 21 November 2023 (UTC)
 * A Wikipedia article would be useful no matter the outcome of the current discussions. What's interesting here is that you say that you more or less agree with me, but one of my points is at the meta-level: what do we know about how we know things? or what do we know about how we find out about how we find out about things? We, as a community, should be able to do better than our own anecdotal experience. The word "notable" is now removed (not by me) from my userspace draft of the RfC - which makes Refseek now "eligible" (per the wording of the question) despite not being notable. Personally, I would consider Refseek ineligible until we at least have a viable Wikipedia article on it. Anyway, I'm about to check the VP discussion ... Boud (talk) 18:59, 21 November 2023 (UTC)

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Speedy deletion nomination of Category:Jockie Soerjoprajogo songs


A tag has been placed on Category:Jockie Soerjoprajogo songs indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion.

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 * Seems like that probably should have been a move, since Category:Songs written by Jockie Soerjoprajogo was created at 21:05, 8 February 2024‎ and Jockie Soerjoprajogo's song Kehidupan is in it. I changed it to a redirect. Boud (talk) 13:00, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

"National Intelligence and Security Service (Ethiopia" listed at Redirects for discussion
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 * See also: 2024-03-22 to 2024-04-22: m:Event:EmpowerHer Editathon 2024 Boud (talk) 23:50, 23 March 2024 (UTC)

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ICC
Hi Boud! Thank you for your additions. Unfortunately I don't understand "reflist talk" or "Please add further discussion within this section above this 'reflist-talk' line". Do you want me to add something?

I tried to read WP:ARBECR, but I failed to unterstand it. What's that about "non EC editors may only file edit requests in AI/IP topic area"? Cheers, 93.211.218.228 (talk) 22:53, 24 April 2024 (UTC)


 * On the first point, no, there's nothing particular you need to do with the 'reflist talk'. You can see reflist-talk to see a longer version of the "hidden comment" meant to explain the role of the template. Boud (talk) 23:00, 24 April 2024 (UTC)


 * On the second point, you are (in this role, at least) an IP user, so you count as a "non-EC" editor. That means that in principle, even on the talk page Talk:International Criminal Court investigation in Palestine you're not supposed to "discuss the topic". I haven't followed the degree to which these rules are implemented in practice. While the talk pages are, in principle, only supposed to deal with discussing edits to an article, in general it's not always possible to discuss edits without discussing the topic itself, and what is known about the topic, how reliable sources are, and so on. The risk is that on sensitive topics like this, inexperienced editors risk seeing the talk page as a forum, or a lot of energy needs to be invested in explaining well-evolved Wikipedia guidelines. Maybe could add a comment here if my explanation is unclear, or if there's not enough explanation at WP:CTOP. I think that if you stick to focussing on requests to edit nobody will object. Boud (talk) 23:15, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
 * +1 on the last sentence, that's the essence of WP:ARBECR. I usually give more detailed explanations to new users but not to IPs, sorry about that, it doesn't say anything about you personally. Selfstudier (talk) 23:22, 24 April 2024 (UTC)


 * Aha, Thanks to both of you! Most of the time I/IPs are allowed to start a request. (Open systems make autopoiesis. Closed systems die.) --93.211.218.228 (talk) 23:34, 24 April 2024 (UTC)

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Copyvio?
I have been editing on WP for a long time now and I know what a copyio is. Making pointy and irrelevant edits is not a good look, suggest you desist. I will ignore, this time, that you also breached the 1R rule, removing the fact that the court did not comment twice. Selfstudier (talk) 22:01, 29 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the alert about 1R - technically you're right, even though it was about removing non-information, which I hadn't thought was particularly sensitive. To be careful, .The source (The Guardian) says The ICC has not commented officially and has advised diplomats that it is not aware of any dramatic moves in the investigation. and added The court has not commented officially and has advised diplomats that it is not aware of any dramatic moves in the investigation. That is clearly a copyright violation. Changing "ICC" to "court" or paraphrasing does not make a copyvio into a non-copyvio. The legal risk was low, because it was only one sentence, but it was still a copyvio. The information in the edit description linking to WP:COPYVIO is for all people who check the edit history, not just you personally.To clarify other reasons for, apart from the fact that the second sentence was a copyvio: WP:RELTIME was a problem; "not aware of any dramatic moves" is too vague for Wikivoice; whether Japan counts as Western world is definition-dependent - the source does not say which particular G7 members attempted to influence the judges of the ICC; we don't know if the G7 diplomats are genuinely worried about disrupting ceasefire talks, so "for fear" risks talking about the diplomats' genuine thoughts (which we cannot know) rather than their statements - it's safer to say that that's the argument they presented, no matter whether they believed it or not - amid concerns that such a move could disrupt the chances of a breakthrough in ceasefire talks is ambiguous about who has the concerns, it could be either "everybody" (implicit generally accepted knowledge) or it could be these particular diplomats who have the concerns. Boud (talk) 07:56, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

Introduction to contentious topics
Selfstudier (talk) 22:19, 29 April 2024 (UTC)


 * Since it seems you may be unaware of the restrictions. Selfstudier (talk) 22:20, 29 April 2024 (UTC)

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Can you quicken approval for FAB-1500?
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Thanks
For getting the ICJ case into wikinews. Well done. Nishidani (talk) 11:55, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
 * You actually did most of the work, but thanks anyway. BTW, I think it's risky to say "wikinews" for WP:ITN, since Wikinews exists. (I don't see much point in Wikinews, especially since the culture there is opposed to inline sourcing, and long-term, integrated encyclopedic knowledge is a lot more useful than summarising hot-off-the-press mainstream media reports, which probably give us as much info about the main model of Western media as about events in the world itself ... Though apparently ru.wikinews is very active - maybe it serves a useful purpose, given the particular situation?) Boud (talk) 15:58, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Well, all these distinctions about wikipedia escape me, I thought they were one and the same thing. At least wiki got it as 'in the news'. Exactly 24 hours after the ICC judgment was passed, the article on it in the NYTs, reproduced from the Associated Press, ranks in 43rd position, way down the bottom of the World News page, a superb illustration of conscious mainstream bias. 'Out of sight, out of (we don't) mind', mind of course being paying attention, and taking care.  Cheers Nishidani (talk) 16:26, 20 July 2024 (UTC)