Talk:Ernest Mason Satow

Untitled
The pronounciation of Satow is still a problem in this article. It states the Japanese a is short. While this is true, it is short in length, not sound as the article indicates. I have Japanese books which state the Japanese a sounds like 'father' or 'ah' (as in Ah, that's great!). Can I edit this? I am not an expert, but the pronounciation article is all wrong.221.23.238.148 (talk) 22:24, 24 August 2009 (UTC)

The external links in this should be stripped out and converted into Wikipedia content. Jpatokal 04:46, 28 Sep 2004 (UTC)


 * The source of his Sorbian heritage is his biography published in Japan. According to this book, the surname Satow is Sorbian, so it is so unusual among Germans. The suffix -ow is obviously Slavic. --1523 07:41, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

I find this man very interesting. I, however fail to understand the difference in the "a" pronounced in Satoh by the Japanese and the "a" pronounced in "tomato" by the British. Could you be more clear about this pronunciation difference between the two, or educate me about the difference? Malnova 20:36, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

I think the author means to say "tomato" as pronounced by the Americans.
 * (I agree, and I'm changing the text accordingly. As it is, it makes no sense. Even worse, "short a" in discussions of American English refers to as in "cat" -- which doesn't occur at all in Japanese -- not to  as in "cart" or "father" (also called "broad 'a'"), which does occur, as in the name "Satō". -- The section name should be changed accordingly, but I don't want to break any links to it. I've seen a way to do it right but I don't remember where.
 * OED long, adj.1, def.13a, note 3: "In ordinary language ‘the long a, e, i, o, or u’ denotes that sound of the letter which is used as its alphabetical name, while ‘the short a, e, i, o, or u’ denotes the sound which the letter most commonly has in a stressed short syllable (in the notation used in this Dictionary, respectively (æ), (ɛ), (ɪ), (ɒ), (ʌ))." --Thnidu (talk) 00:11, 13 March 2008 (UTC))

This whole discussion of his name and the choice of kanjis is problematic. The author states that there is no Japanese word with the pronunciation of Satow (assumably as pronouned in the American "tomato"). But in fact this is possible, although not common in Japanese names. For example 正藤 （せいとう）or 瀬藤（せとう）would achieve the desired result.


 * I have met and spoken to one of Ernest Satow's English relations. He told me that "Satow" was pronounced with a long a. The Japanese changed this to a short a to suit themselves. That is all I was really trying to say, and I am sorry for any confusion which has resulted. Indeed the whole paragraph should probably be removed as not being very useful. --Historian (talk) 01:49, 22 April 2008 (UTC)


 * I think that the sentence should be revised. If you ave going to keep the essence of it in, please could you make reference to the sound as defined in the IPA, rather than just saying "long". I wouldn't have thought it would be pronounced as the "a" in American "tomato" which is actually quite short. Also, I am fairly sure that Japanese does have a "long a" (or at least an intermediate length "a"). It may well be that the Japanese chose to make it short, though, which could be relevant, but only insofar as it affects English-speakers' choice on how to pronounce it. Muchado (talk) 03:54, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

There's no Chinese transcription of his name? Elvisrules 15:21, 23 January 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Elvisrules (talk • contribs)

Connections with other notable persons
If anyone thinks its of value a new section could be added linking to (wiki site of) other notable people he met / knew, e.g.:

William Gifford Palgrave (28th April 1881 diary entry) Edward Lear (21st Dec 1875 diary Entry) John Russell Young (22nd June 1882 diary entry) - new American minister in China .. etc Referenced from "A Diplomat in Japan Part II" Ian Ruxton (ed) ISBN 978-0-557-10457-4--Victnihon (talk) 13:27, 31 October 2012 (UTC)

Link to volume one of satow's beijing diary
http://books.google.com/books?id=V7ztUW-RXrYC&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false

Rajmaan (talk) 20:00, 17 December 2012 (UTC)

Japanese wife
his wife Kane is Japanese? she was from China. please collect. Wikipedia lies? Yuriko Tanabe (talk) 08:09, 2 May 2016 (UTC)
 * I would say "cite a professionally-published mainstream academic or journalistic source for your claim," but your other posts seem to indicate that you seem to be obsessed with some ideas of racial purity that Wikipedia policy doesn't support. Ian.thomson (talk) 03:09, 6 May 2016 (UTC)
 * I think the word you're looking for is "correct", not "collect". They mean two completely different things. Regardless of that, your comments make no sense. ··· 日本穣 ·  投稿  · Talk to Nihonjoe ·  Join WP Japan ! 08:07, 6 May 2016 (UTC)

British policy
satow pointed out that the emperor's existence had not even been mentioned by this Chinese emperor came to Japan. please collect. and please point out the Japanese emperor's existence. Yuriko Tanabe (talk) 06:21, 3 May 2016 (UTC)
 * You can read about the current emperor here, or read about the head of the Imperial House of Japan at Emperor of Japan. Outside of that, I don't have any idea what you are talking about as your comments make no sense. ··· 日本穣 ·  投稿  · Talk to Nihonjoe ·  Join WP Japan ! 08:09, 6 May 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
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External links modified
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I have just modified 3 external links on Ernest Mason Satow. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090316095459/http://www.aplink.jp/synapse/4-931444-06-7.htm to http://www.aplink.jp/synapse/4-931444-06-7.htm
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090316101926/http://www.aplink.jp/synapse/4-931444-09-1.htm to http://www.aplink.jp/synapse/4-931444-09-1.htm
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Never married his wife?
The beginning of the family section begins with the line "Satow was never able, as a diplomat serving in Japan, to marry his Japanese common-law wife, Takeda Kane 武田兼 (1853–1932) whom he met at an unknown date." This statement has no citation or further context to clarify what it is actually trying to say. How can one not be wedded to their common-law spouse? Was it that the marriage was unrecognised by the British and/or Japanese governments? Was it that they never had a religious ceremony to officiate the wedding? If anybody can help clarify I would be quite grateful. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Canodae (talk • contribs) 17:25, 13 October 2018 (UTC)