Talk:Federated States of Micronesia/Archive 1

Currency
Micronesia uses the US Dollar per the Compact of Free Association see [http://www.fsmlaw.org/compact/t02art05.htm Art. 5, Sec. 251] this link is the 1986 Compact; i'm pretty sure the 2003 text is the same. - Thanks, Hoshie | 12:28, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

Non-sensical statement
I removed the following, which needs factual correction:
 * The flag of Micronesia is blue because it is an island surrounded by water and has four stars representing each member of the population.

-- Beland 13:08, 1 March 2006 (UTC)
 * While it may be hard to verify that i believe that it is true. Blue representing the ocean and the four stars representing each of the four states       somewhat similar to the 50 stars on the US's Flag —Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.252.253.227 (talk • contribs)


 * You are probably right - see Flag of the Federated States of Micronesia - but as Beland says, the original wording was not --Henrygb 09:44, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

Standards?
Needs a symbol/ flag icon like this one: 🇵🇼

GeoFan49 20:18, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

Proposed WikiProject
There is now a proposed WikiProject dealing with the area of Micronesia at WikiProject Council/Proposals. Any interested parties should add their names there, so we can see if there is enough interest in this project to try to officially start it. Thank you. Badbilltucker 21:19, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

Motto
I removed the motto Peace Unity Liberty. I could find no reference for it: it isn't mentioned in the constitution, doesn't appear on coins or the coat of arms, and a Google search only gives Wikipedia mirrors. Pruneautalk 23:25, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Indeed it does appear on the coat of arms, on the scroll under the tree. Chris 04:38, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

Largest city, Ronkiti
Someone needs to make a page for it.--Salaka 17:34, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

Politics
Regarding the statement, "In international politics, the Federated States of Micronesia, since associated with the United States, are traditionally known as keen supporters of the State of Israel, voting almost consistently in its favor at the United Nations General Assembly." I removed the uncited and dubious statement. If returned, it should be rephrased for NPOV and used as an example (assuming it's true and has a citation) in a broader discussion of FM's international relations and foreign affairs. 65.33.142.40 17:36, 5 May 2007 (UTC) -Changed the statement to reflect the citation. The cite says FM supports US voting in the UN 100% of the time which includes all issues, not just issues related to Israel. In fact, Israel does not always vote on the side of the US according to the cite.Markbyrn 19:16, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Lovely pic
May I congratulate the beautiful picture of the stone money. It looks awesome, whoever put it there and whoever photographed it, its redundant to say well done.Tourskin 03:57, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

Micronesian Scouting
Can someone render "Be Prepared", the Scout Motto, into Ulithian, Woleaian, Yapese, Pohnpeian, Kosraean, and/or Chuukese? Thanks! Chris 04:36, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

Official Language
I don't see why every municipal and state language should be listed as the official languages. Only English is official at the national level. The list looks like a list of islands far enough away from each other to be a separate language. If this principle is to apply to the United States, Spanish, Chamorro, Hawaiian, Samoan and a bunch of native/Indian languages would be included, and for India--I can't imagine the length. HkCaGu (talk) 05:38, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

Location Map
The location map is thoroughly inadequate to actually "see" where the country is. Does anyone have a higher resolution copy of the same image? Thanks. -- Jophus00 (talk) 01:59, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

U.S. Citizenship
So, I'm curious, and think it would be relevant to the article to describe how the independence of previous U.S. territories (such as the FSM, Palau, the RMI, the Philippines, Cuba) affects the citizenship of it's residents. Did these people not have U.S. citizenship before the independence? If they did, how did they lose it? Doesn't the U.S. Constitution prevent that? Should Former U.S. Territories get their own article? At the moment, the closest thing is this section of the Historic regions of the United States article. - Eric (talk) 07:39, 5 June 2008 (UTC)


 * To my knowledge, no groups have lost U.S. citizenship. Palau, FSM, and RMI were only trust territory and never belonged to the United States (it was a "U.N. trust").  They never had U.S. citizenship.  As for real territories, their people are not U.S. citizens unless granted by the U.S. government.  To my knowledge, all former territories now independent of the U.S. were never granted citizenship.


 * I believe that such areas as Cuba and the Philipines did have citizens with US citizenship. Generally speaking, anytime the US acquired territory, the paperwork around it explicitly granted US citizenship to the occupants, excluding what were generally described in the treaties as the "uncivilized Indians."  For example, the Convention on Alaska explicitly grants US citizenship to anyone living there who did not return to Russia within three years (qv., Alaska Purchase).  Assuming simiar paperwork was drawn up for actual former US territories (that is, excluding UN Trust Territories), and those citizens did have US citizenship.  However, I would assume that upon independence, treaties were drawn up providing for a period of time in which citizens may return to the US, or else remain where they were, lose US citizenship, and be granted citizenship in the new country.  Remember, even though the US Constitution prevents the deprivation of citizenship, the territories mentioned did become independent, and, subsequently, the US Constitution had no jurisdiction over their territory. Mnmazur (talk) 21:33, 10 May 2009 (UTC)


 * No, Cubans and Filipinos were never US citizens. No group had ever lost US citizenship. People born on US soil do not automatically acquire citizenship--the constitution only cover states. Congress has to grant it by law. There is a lag time for granting citizenship to territories (except Hawaii because it was sovereign), and Cuba and Philippines never lasted long enough to survive that lag. Guam, for example, wasn't until 1950, and probably wouldn't get it if the much more populated Philippines didn't get their independence. HkCaGu (talk) 05:39, 11 May 2009 (UTC)


 * There was no lag time for Alaska, unless you count the three year gap, and Cuba and the Philippines were colonies for more than three years. Also, the COnstitution does cover the territories.  It applies to all sovereign territory of the US. Mnmazur (talk) 22:12, 11 May 2009 (UTC)


 * No, the US constitution has no effect on territories outside of the 50 states and DC. Look at each territory's constitution or organic act and you'll see how it has to explicitly mention the rights. Being born in a territory does not mean citizenship unless Congress says so. Of course for many North American territories which soon became states it didn't matter much because many births are from US citizen parents. For Puerto Rico it took more than one decade. 48 years weren't long enough for the Philippines. And to this day, American Samoans are still not citizens--that's 100+ years. HkCaGu (talk) 04:50, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

International Mailing Address?
As the FSM uses US-style mailing address format, when and how should you use a "country" line?

For example, if you are mailing something from the Philippines to FSM, should the address be:

Name Street Palikir, Pohnpei State, FM 96941 Federated States of Micronesia

Name Street Palikir, Pohnpei State 96941 Federated States of Micronesia

Name Street Palikir, Pohnpei State, FM 96941 USA

Name Street Palikir, Pohnpei State, FM 96941 via USA

Note that in the first one, the "FM" is then duplicative and non-sensical. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.36.150.125 (talk) 11:58, 4 October 2008 (UTC)


 * If mailing from outside the US, the address should be written for both the FSM and USPS, which is responsible for transporting mail to/from each island office. FM may be duplicative, but it's for USPS to read. You do not want to write "via USA" from Asia as that may send the mail the long way to the Mainland USA. The USPS standard for "city/state/ZIP" is Pohnpei, FM 96941. I don't know if they have street delivery there, but everything smaller that island (Palikir, etc.) ought to be the line above "city/state/ZIP". HkCaGu (talk) 15:41, 4 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Thank you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.199.197.50 (talk) 04:25, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

climate information ?
i think that there should be somewhere on the website that provides information of the wonderful tropical climate that the country has.

or if there is somewhere that shows it i have not found it.

thank you

just suggesting. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.32.167.8 (talk) 13:56, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

Conventional Short Form
I was wondering why Micronesia was not listed as the conventional short form of the state's name. I know the CIA World Factbook states that it has no conventional short form, however I have several encyclopedias that do denote Micronesia as the CSF (ISBN 0-19-521367-X; ISBN 0-09-177134-X). Furthermore, as the demonym listed is "Micronesian", it makes sense to follow that the CSF would be Micronesia. Anyone have any thoughts on this? If no one objects in a few days, I'll edit it in. Mnmazur (talk) 21:32, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Because it is not, especially locally. Micronesia is a separate article, covering the region. People not knowing the region may wrongly assume that FSM (CLF) shortens to Micronesia (CSF). HkCaGu (talk) 05:35, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
 * So you're saying that the two sources I provided above are incorrect? Personally, I'm inclined to believe two separate encyclopedias published on two different continents which do say that it shortens to Micronesia. Mnmazur (talk) 22:10, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
 * They are incorrect. Micronesia is the region, and FSM is the country consisted of the four districts which approved the constitution. The other two districts which rejected the referendum are now separate countries, but they are part of Micronesia. Look at the UN membership, it's not Micronesia, it's FSM. HkCaGu (talk) 04:58, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
 * That's like saying that Macedonia's not a country because it's UN Membership is under FYROM. Now if you'd have checked the books referenced, you'd have seen that the publishers are Oxford and Hutchinson & Co, both reliable encyclopedias that are sourced elsewhere, so for you to call them incorrect is tantemount to saying ALL of Wikipedia's incorrect.  Now, when I learned about Pacific History in High School, my teachers didn't say 'Federated States of Micronesia' every time they referenced the country, because it's impractical.  That's the purpose of a CSF.  They called it Micronesia, and if there was any doubt as to whether they refered to the country or the region, they'd specify.  Same could be applied to Australia the country and Australia the continent.  People don't say 'Commonwealth of Australia' when they speak of the country to avoid confusion with the continent. Mnmazur (talk) 23:18, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Macedonia calls itself Macedonia, but FSM doesn't call itself Micronesia. Palau and RMI of course don't call FSM Micronesia. In the region and in the US government, they'll use FSM. Your more reliable source in this case is the CIA Factbook, published by the government who really knows the region. (The State Department's involvement in the region is eclipsed by Interior and Defense.) "Micronesia" for the FSM is as informal as "America" for the United States. Too many people outside the region will have heard the full name FSM before knowing there is a region called Micronesia and therefore assumes it's safe to use "Micronesia" as FSM's CSF. HkCaGu (talk) 05:24, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I've given up by this point any hope of winning this argument, but I'd like you not to shout "WRONG!" at my edits on this or other pages, thank you very much. That is both offensive towards me and uncalled for by generally-accepted politeness, though I do recognize that as an American that's a concept hard for you to grasp.  Also, I - as a Canadian - am a proponent of using America as the CSF of the USA, as refering to it as the United States is, quite frankly, insulting to the people of Mexico.  Furthermore, the fact that the CIA, the US DoI, or any other American Government office has such a good knowledge of the region of Micronesia is nothing but further proof towards the evil imperialism of your country.  So until you learn some politeness, I am through with this conversation.  You are rude, obnoxious, and not worth my time arguing with. Mnmazur (talk)  —Preceding undated comment added 08:50, 15 May 2009 (UTC).
 * First i did not shout in capital letters as you indicated. Second, "Estados Unidos" and "EE. UU." in Mexico means "Estados Unidos de América". There is no controversy and they do not feel offended. Third, Micronesia is hardly a proof of "evil imperialism" of the USA, who imperialistically took Guam but didn't want all the other islands, which Spain then sold to Germany, who then lost it to Japan in WWI, who initiated the aggressiveness of WW2. The US invaded Melanesia then Micronesia with a great lost of lives to attack Japan (in coordination with the allies), not really to recover the Philippines and Guam. As the TTPI area was not sovereign and had not been self-governing for decades if not centuries, the UN tasked the US to set them up. Both UN and US wanted all TTPI districts to become one country called the FSM and had that happened the CSF would've been "Micronesia" and Guam or even the already-walked-away Northern Marianas most likely wouldn't protest. But it didn't happen. Beside the already-done-negotiating northernmost district, both the easternmost and the westernmost district didn't pass the referendum, and we have three countries sharing the Micronesian identity. Now that they're sovereign and politically independent, their government functions have not all become independent at once. The FAA inspects their aviation facilities; NOAA funds their weather offices; Treasury provides them currency and coins; USPS delivers them mail at domestic rates; FEMA comes to the rescue after a storm; the US military is their military that they can freely join. This ain't your usual foreign aid and diplomatic arrangements. It's not your usual "US imperialism" found elsewhere. HkCaGu (talk) 19:02, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Country data template
With regards to the Country data Federated States of Micronesia template: at present, the shortname alias "Micronesia" is used; a redirect is also at Country data Micronesia. However, as this is not a common short-name for the country (certainly not used in any official documents, either from the domestic government, foreign governments, or international bodies), it shouldn't be used. A name beside a flagicon is supposed to refer, in this case, to a state. "Micronesia" refers to the wider geographic region; it is one of the three ethno-cultural divisions of the South Pacific. I suppose it would be like having a Country data America template, or a Country data Central Africa template.

According to reputable sources, the FSM does not have a short-form name: the ISO, the FCO, the CIA, the USBGN, the UNGEGN.

I am in the process of cleaning up transculsions of the redirect. Once finished, I will propose a WP:TFD, with the aim to remove the alias from the main template, and to delete the redirect. Night w (talk) 18:47, 6 July 2010 (UTC)
 * As a matter of procedure, you'll want RfD for the redirect, not TfD, and we don't need anything more than normal consensus (here) to edit the template to remove the  parameter.  Also, note that these two items are completely independent; the redirect (used with flag) does not use the shortname alias.  You'll want to search for things like  to find those instances.  Shortname alias is also used with national team templates like  and, but the target articles are at Federated States of Micronesia national football team and Federated States of Micronesia national basketball team anyway, so the shortname alias should be removed to fix those links. — Andrwsc (talk · contribs) 21:21, 7 July 2010 (UTC)
 * So is it more appropriate to have the shortname alias "FSM", or none at all? The acronym is common enough, although I'm not sure of the conventions behind these things, and whether acronyms are generally avoided in those instances. I've noticed that the flagcountry templates for the Congolese republics use the full name (i.e. undefined =  undefined. Do I need to clean anything else up before it's removed? Night w (talk) 21:38, 7 July 2010 (UTC)
 * I recommend keeping the short form for now. Although unofficial, it is in common use. For example, there is a http://www.micronesia.com/ . Chipmunkdavis (talk) 21:49, 7 July 2010 (UTC)
 * The  parameter for the flag template system is optional, and only needed if the template name doesn't match the target article name.  A good example is Georgia (country), where we want to use  to render  Georgia. Note that the wikilink target and display name for the link are both exactly what we want.  But in this case, you can use  to render 🇫🇲 FSM and you don't need a   parameter to do that.  I've already taken the bold step to delete that parameter a few minutes ago, as I don't think it is needed here, and was actually getting in the way of the football and basketball templates. — Andrwsc (talk · contribs) 21:57, 7 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks, that sounds good. Night w (talk) 22:14, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

(ec) So is "America" for the United States, but we don't have Country data America for obvious reasons; it's a colloquialism, and shouldn't be used in reference to the state in an encyclopaedic context. The most active online Micronesian community is at MicSem, which evinces that in respect to common local usage, the acronym prevails anyway. Night w (talk) 22:14, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

Commonly Used Short Form
The previous short form discussion is old, I think it should be archived. I'd just like to ask what the difference is between using Micronesia for the FSM and using America for the USA. Seems like a similar situation, and america is listed as a short form for the United States page. Chipmunkdavis (talk) 23:25, 7 July 2010 (UTC)
 * FSM is the short form that I see. :) FM is the domain code though and I believe how letters are sent when using the US postal system. --LauraHale (talk) 00:05, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

Association with the United States of America
The history given in the Article is very interesting and I was pleased to learn. The Federated States of Micronesia have more association with the United Nations than USA, apparently. By contrast, the Marianna Islands chose to associate more closely with USA and vote in the primary elections, (nine delegates to the Republican convention in August). Charles Edwin Shipp (talk) 00:29, 24 March 2012 (UTC)

Requested move 7 August 2015

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: not moved. Jenks24 (talk) 08:09, 15 August 2015 (UTC)


 * Federated States of Micronesia → Micronesia
 * Micronesia → Micronesia (region)

– WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. WP:Commonname. WP:Concise. The current title is too long. It does not share a name with any other entity besides the region, which it occupies more than 50% Shhhhwwww!! (talk) 01:35, 7 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Oppose, FSM has a population of 136,000 people and an area of 702 square km, while Micronesia has a population of 574,000 people and an area of 3,200 square km. These figures are taken from Oceania and roughly rounded. The figures for Micronesia include those for FSM. I can't see how you conclude that FSM occupies more than 50% of the region. Also, the term "Micronesia" dates back to the 1830s, while the FSM has had its current name since 1979, and prior to that was parts of Trust Territory of the Pacific Islands. The name clearly belongs to the region rather than this one nation within it.- gadfium 02:09, 7 August 2015 (UTC)
 * I meant surface area which includes sea area. Shhhhwwww!! (talk) 03:15, 7 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Oppose. The region is the primary topic and this is the usual way the state is disambiguated including at the official sites . DrKay (talk) 07:44, 7 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Oppose per both editors above, the region is the primary topic. Zarcadia (talk) 19:32, 7 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Oppose Obviously not, since there's a lot more to Micronesia than the FSOM, particularly Palau and the Marshall Islands. While as Gadfium notes, the name Micronesia dates back to the 19th century, it's been applied to a civilization that goes back a thousand years. &mdash;innotata 23:12, 7 August 2015 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Comment on the suggested move
Comment on the above suggestion by User:Shhhhwwww!!: Parenthesis in article titles should be avoided when disambiguation is needed. A "natural disambiguation" is preferred. See Article titles: "Parenthetical disambiguation, i.e. adding a disambiguating term in parentheses after the ambiguous name: Wikipedia's standard disambiguation technique when none of the other solutions lead to an optimal article title." (emphasis added) Those other solutions are "Natural disambiguation" and "Comma-separated disambiguation". (Also mentioned in WP:Article Titles is "Descriptive title" and "Combinations of the above".) Therefore, using "Federated States of Micronesia" and "Micronesia" is preferable to using "Micronesia" and "Micronesia (Region)",--Iloilo Wanderer (talk) 04:22, 19 October 2015 (UTC)

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Associated State not an Independent State
The islands are not an "independent sovereign island nation" and a "United States associated state". Those two concepts are incompatible. As an associated state it is not fully independent.203.80.61.102 (talk) 03:36, 5 September 2017 (UTC)

City
The term city is defined differently in different countries. However no where could a village as small as Weno be called the "largest city". It is a large village, or small town.122.59.212.133 (talk) 06:43, 5 September 2017 (UTC)
 * There are several cities (officially designated as such) in my state (North Carolina) that are smaller than Weno. An incorporated municipality with more than 13000 people could easily be the largest such in the FSM. --Khajidha (talk) 01:01, 4 December 2017 (UTC)

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John Bull's Islands
Henry John Row named some of these after John Bull when he sighted them but couldn't remember hearing about them. I did think the article was rather funny, but I'm just dropping the ref in here: http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article2450242 jayoval (talk) 21:03, 15 November 2017 (UTC) (Note to self, read the whole article before posting information and then you won't have to correct it) jayoval (talk) 21:08, 15 November 2017 (UTC)

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Spanish claim
FALSE !!!! STOP PLEASE. The comment that you of wikipedia make about Spain claiming some islands from Micronesia is false. The government of Spain has actively and passively said that these islands belong to the Federated States of Micronesia. Please do not base your articles on discussions on facebook. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.145.125.108 (talk • contribs) 11:19, 24 July 2021 (UTC)

Yes, right, that information about the territorial claim of some islets has been changed. Spain has already officially declared that it does not have any territory in the Pacific Ocean. This information only served to generate conflicts, a conflict between Micronesians and Spaniards that has never existed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.145.66.236 (talk) 07:03, 29 August 2021 (UTC)