Talk:Flying Spaghetti Monster/Archive 17

Requested move 2 December 2015

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: not moved. The proposal has gained no support beyond the nominator, and there have been no new contributions of any kind to the discussion since the 4th. Consensus is against this move. Egsan Bacon (talk) 14:07, 10 December 2015 (UTC)

Flying Spaghetti Monster → Pastafarianism – This article talks mostly about Pastafarianism in general, not exclusively the Flying Spagetti Monster. Proud User (talk) 22:50, 2 December 2015 (UTC)

Survey

 * Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with  or  , then sign your comment with  . Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's policy on article titles.


 * Opppose move The FSM article is already very long. Keep it where it is. Moving to Pastafarianism will create an overly long article. Megalibrarygirl (talk) 00:02, 3 December 2015 (UTC) Oppose move because more people will search for FSM than Pastafarianism. Megalibrarygirl (talk) 00:04, 3 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Comment "More people will search for it" is not a valid reason to oppose the move. We need to rely on Wikipedia's policies and guidelines to help decide weather to support or oppose the move. Actually, avalible evidence from Google suggests that the term "Pastafarianism" is more searched than "Flying Spagetti Monster" anyway. Also, if someone does happen to search for an alternate name (other than the name of the Wikipedia article), Wikipedia is still very likely to show up (for example, a Google search for "the free encyclopedia that anyone can edit" brings up Wikipedia's article on itself, without even having to type in "Wikipedia.") --Proud User (talk) 00:32, 3 December 2015 (UTC)


 * split there should be two articles, one on the thing, the other on the movement -- 70.51.44.60 (talk) 05:58, 3 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Oppose and no need to split the article. Never heard of the second term and only appears, sometimes, jokingly in books. In ictu oculi (talk) 08:14, 3 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Comment "Pastafarianism" is the official name of the religion and reliable sources can confirm that. --Proud User (talk) 10:15, 3 December 2015 (UTC)


 * Oppose per Per WP:COMMONNAME. --Guy Macon (talk) 06:47, 4 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Comment: If the article talked specifically about the Flying Spagetti Monster, then I could see why it would be considered a "common name." But it doesn't. It goes into general detail about Pastafarianism itself, so I see no reason why we should have such a specific name for a title. "Flying Spagetti Monster" is not the name of the religion, but "Pastafarianism" is.--Proud User (talk) 21:08, 4 December 2015 (UTC)
 * No it isn't. The proper name and WP:COMMONNAME of the religion in question is the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster. See [ http://www.venganza.org/about/ ] --Guy Macon (talk) 23:27, 4 December 2015 (UTC)

Discussion

 * Any additional comments:

Oppose — Preceding unsigned comment added by SmokeyJoe (talk • contribs) 11:04, 3 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Comment Why do you oppose? Also, remember to sign your posts.--Proud User (talk) 19:20, 3 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Per WP:COMMONNAME. The proposed is a less common made up version of the first, slightly cleverer, but less recognizable.  Also note .  In the references, one name hugely dominates the other in frequency of use.  --SmokeyJoe (talk) 23:29, 3 December 2015 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Request to add new link to the "Notes" section
Jasmine Jaksic (27 April 2015). "Six Modern Religions for Freethinkers". Huffington Post — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jjaksic (talk • contribs) 02:55, 19 December 2015 (UTC)

Headgear in photos
Sometime and sometime soon we need to stop listing everyone who gets a drivers licence with a colander on his or her head. It has simply become unencyclopedic Andrewgprout (talk) 07:27, 12 January 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
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 * Attempted to fix sourcing for www.boingboing.net/2005/08/22/diy_flying_spaghetti.html

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The Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster is allowed to perform marriages in New Zealand
New Zealand Gazette Alvar ☮ 11:26, 18 December 2015 (UTC)

In fact, the article completely lacks information on where FSMism is legally recognized as a religion. At least New Zealand and Holland do, AFAIK. I think the article should report this. Efforts for FSMism recognition (and successes) are very important to grasp the attitude of the FSM community. Moongateclimber (talk) 19:53, 28 January 2016 (UTC)

Legal status
Shouldn't there be a map of Pastafarianism's legal status in the world? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.173.136.137 (talk) 09:03, 8 February 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 6 one external links on Flying Spaghetti Monster. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20091202222303/http://www.wired.com:80/culture/education/news/2007/11/flying_spaghetti_monster to http://www.wired.com/culture/education/news/2007/11/flying_spaghetti_monster
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20090318015817/http://broadcast44.com:80/FSM/about.htm to http://broadcast44.com/FSM/about.htm
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20140817170636/http://www.news-leader.com/article/20091119/BREAKING07/91119022/Atheists-to-gather-at-MSU-for-Scepticon-this-weekend to http://www.news-leader.com/article/20091119/BREAKING07/91119022/Atheists-to-gather-at-MSU-for-Scepticon-this-weekend
 * Attempted to fix sourcing for http://crossville-chronicle.com/local/x960637460/Flying-Spaghetti-Monster-takes-up-residence-at-county-courthouse/print
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20121202011544/http://www.sfgate.com:80/news/article/Pasta-loving-church-tests-Pa-holiday-display-4073601.php to http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Pasta-loving-church-tests-Pa-holiday-display-4073601.php
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20090822160012/http://www.answersingenesis.org:80/articles/2008/01/22/flying-spaghetti-monster to http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/2008/01/22/flying-spaghetti-monster

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Spaghettification
There has to be a FSM-related joke in there somewhere... :) --Guy Macon (talk) 18:07, 21 February 2016 (UTC)


 * Ramen to that! Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 19:56, 21 February 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 29 March 2016
Update the amount of loans funded by the FSM group on Kiva.

On the nonprofit microfinancing site, Kiva, the Flying Spaghetti Monster group is in an ongoing competition to top all other "religious congregations" in the number of loans issued via their team. The group's motto is "Thou shalt share, that none may seek without funding,"[67] an allusion to the Loose Canon which states "Thou shalt share, that none may seek without finding."[68][69] As of 29 March 2016, it has funded more than $2,969,925 in loans.[70]

(Change date on [70] to reflect 29 March 2016).

Aggiekat (talk) 17:50, 29 March 2016 (UTC)
 * ✅ But note that the figure is slightly different. Chhandama (talk) 02:09, 30 March 2016 (UTC)

FSMC in Poland
Dear Wikipedians!

I'm afraid tha FSM Church in Poland is still not legally recognized. The quote from The official page (http://www.klps.pl/) of FSMC (Kościół Latającego Potwora Spaghetti) states:

"Wniosek o rejestrację KLPS został wysłany 27 lipca 2012. 15 marca 2013 otrzymaliśmy decyzję odmowną. 28 kwietnia 2015 sąd uchylił II odmowną decyzję MAiC, mimo to urząd 19 sierpnia ponownie odmówił rejestracji. 17 września 2015 wysłaliśmy III skargę do WSA."

I will not transtale, but basically it means that bureaucratic procedure is still in progress and not ended.

Also, quote from Polish Wikipedia about FSM is:

"Przedstawiciele KLPS zapowiedzieli odwołanie od decyzji, a także skargi do Sądu Administracyjnego w Warszawie, Naczelnego Sądu Administracyjnego i Trybunału Praw Człowieka[19]. 8 kwietnia 2014 Wojewódzki Sąd Administracyjny w Warszawie wyrokiem uchylił decyzje Ministra Administracji i Cyfryzacji, Michała Boniego z 2013 roku [3][20]. Następca Boniego na stanowisku ministra administracji i cyfryzacji, Rafał Trzaskowski zapowiedział możliwość zmiany decyzji ministerstwa[21] na korzystną dla pastafarian. W październiku 2014 roku sekretarz stanu Stanisław Huskowski wydał w imieniu Ministra Administracji i Cyfryzacji decyzję o ponownej odmowie rejestracji Kościoła Latającego Potwora Spaghetti. Od decyzji MAC Kościół się odwołał i następna rozprawa w sprawie rejestracji została wyznaczona na 28 kwietnia 2015."

Which also means that the procedure is in progress (although this is slightly outdated).

Most probably the Polish officials will do not recognize FSMC and Pastafarians will have to sue Poland in European Court of Human Rights.

I know that the linked page says otherwise, but it is not correct.

EDIT: Yeah, I forgot to sign :P --Kaworu1992 (talk) 15:03, 19 April 2016 (UTC)

First wedding information incorrect
5280native (talk) 21:24, 19 April 2016 (UTC)Multiple places here, and in the media, state the 1st official wedding was just recently in New Zealand. This is highly incorrect, as I myself have performed three official weddings in the name of the Church of the FSM as an ordained minister of the church (I was not the first either). This all started from one misinformed AP writer in New Zealand. I, and those others, who have performed weddings in the name of his noodly goodness would like this to be fixed. R'amen.
 * Please provide some reliable neutral references to back up this claim. Thanks and R'amen to you too.--Dmol (talk) 22:06, 19 April 2016 (UTC)

"Pastafarian" pre-dates FSM
There was an old joke I heard back in the 80's along the lines of "have you heard of pastafarians? they listen to ragu music". It seems this deserves mention in the article as FSM acolytes clearly co-opted a bit of pre existing history. (and btw, "ragu" is an Italian word for spaghetti sauce, it's not just an American brand) 68.175.11.48 (talk) 17:05, 4 May 2016 (UTC)
 * They must have been pirates or descendants of pirates. It is an ancient religion, approximately 6,000 years old, per devout adherents. Lipsquid (talk) 17:19, 4 May 2016 (UTC)

Important Changes Must Be Made
All throughout the page, the Church of FSM is constantly called a 'parody religion' or 'satirical'. There is also an issue with some basic information such as, saying that it was first seen in 2005, the creator was the Prophet Bobby, THAT is not the truth. Pastafarians have been around for a long time, the originals were pirates. Bobby didn't create the FSM, he was just touched by His noodly appendages and made it widely public. Nobody created the FSM, He created us, we did not create Him. Pirate XIV (talk) 05:20, 4 May 2016 (UTC)
 * If you will notice, our article on the Mormonism does not say that the religion was founded by Jesus. Nor does our article on Islam say that the religion was first practiced by Adam and only revived by Muhammad.  Nor do the articles on Arya Samaj or the Transcendental Meditation movement credit the authors of the Vedas as their founder.  That is because Wikipedia sticks to secular history.  Ian.thomson (talk) 05:54, 4 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Ummm, Jesus is in the official name for the Mormon church, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and the Islam article says "Muslims also believe that Islam is the complete and universal version of a primordial faith that was revealed many times before through prophets including Adam...." maybe you were making a joke or maybe you don't know what you are talking about...  Lipsquid (talk) 17:26, 4 May 2016 (UTC)

Can't add spanish language
Spanish version of the page "Flying Spaguetti Monster" (which is "Monstruo del Espageti Volador" which redirects to "Pastafarismo") can't be added on language section due to a conflict with the "Monstruo del Espageti Volador" page. Super-mpm (talk) 00:53, 31 August 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
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Link to dab page redirect for Bobby Henderson
I removed the linking brackets from Bobby Henderson in the infobox because there is no WP page for this Robert Henderson. If it had been a red link, I would have left it, but a link to a dab page is not acceptable even if the dab page has a black-text entry for this person (which points back here). What is your reason for reverting?  &#8212;jmcgnh  (talk) (contribs)  23:09, 29 December 2016 (UTC)


 * Sorry I was looking at the edit summary and noticed that at some point the edit was mentioned as a RL/ reason given that RLs are good for WP. Stupidly assumed that it had been a rl.TeeVeeed (talk) 18:22, 2 January 2017 (UTC)


 * I will try to be clearer in future edit summaries.  &#8212;jmcgnh  (talk) (contribs)  03:33, 3 January 2017 (UTC)

Monotheism
I just added Pastafarianism to the Wiki page "Monotheism" (specifically, the list of monotheistic religions) and it was immediately reverted as being "inappropriate". Anyone with an account care to take this one? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.168.220.251 (talk) 11:15, 14 January 2017 (UTC)

Add information about driver's license in Germany
I want to add information about headgear in legal documents in Germany between the first two paragraphs of this section (to stick to the chronological ordering):

On August 9, 2011 the chairman of the church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster Germany Rüdiger Weida obtained a driver's license with a picture of him wearing a pirate bandana. In contrast to the Austrian officials in the case of Niko Alm the German officials allowed the headgear as a religious exception.

Toutouwai314 (talk) 09:09, 17 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Yes check.svg Done  B E C K Y S A Y L E S  03:55, 4 February 2017 (UTC)

Add legal status in Germany
I want to add information about the legal status in Germany:

Since 2006 the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster has the status of a registered association (German: Eingetragener Verein) in Germany and has officially been recognised as a non-profit association in 2011. In 2014 the world's first Pastafarian church opened in the city of Templin. The church was allowed to put up signs at some of the roads leading to the city to advertise their weekly noodle service on Fridays at 10 a.m., which is a common habit by various religions in Germany.

Toutouwai314 (talk) 08:48, 17 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. TerraCodes  (talk to me) 02:59, 18 February 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 11 May 2017
I would like to add an additional line under Identity photos. The photo of his interim driver's license with the issue date is available with his information blacked out.

On May 11th 2017, an Indiana BMV issues a drivers license to a man wearing Pastafarian headgear. The photo required the branch manager's approval. Faylah (talk) 20:46, 11 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made.. Also, there have already been multiple examples listed of individuals obtaining drivers licenses wearing colanders. Does another example really add any context to the article? Altamel (talk) 04:50, 23 May 2017 (UTC)

Trying to add a link to the Russian version
"The link ruwiki:Пастафарианство is already used by item Q14397660. You may remove it from Q14397660 if it does not belong there or merge the items if they are about the exact same topic." - I get this even if I link to Летающий Спагетти Монстр instead. Not sure what if anything should be done about it (casual user here). Markus Ramikin (talk) 14:04, 29 June 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 1 July 2017
79.181.103.155 (talk) 13:22, 1 July 2017 (UTC) add national animal: Unicorn
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Cannolis (talk) 13:26, 1 July 2017 (UTC)

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External links modified
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Semi-protected edit request on 28 August 2017
Please change the following claim, "The first legally-recognized Pastafarian wedding occurred in New Zealand on April 16, 2016.[6]" to "The first legally-recognized New Zealand Pastafarian wedding occured on April 16, 2016."

Reason: I was married in Des Moines, Iowa, Polk County on August 31, 2013 by the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster. Our marriage license was filed and validated with the Polk County Clerk's Office. Additionally, I don't believe mine was the first legally recognized FSM marriage because prior to getting married I read numerous testimonies on the legality of other FSM marriages (mostly in the US). AbominableLint (talk) 00:14, 29 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done for now: G'day, unfortunately we cannot take people's claims as evidence of an event. We would need an independant source like a news website to state that, or an official statement from the FSM themselves. Uploading a copy of the marriage certificate would be unadvisable, however, would also be considered a reliable source. —   IVORK  Discuss 01:26, 29 August 2017 (UTC)

The request was not to add a new claim but to remove a dubious claim. That requires a lower standard of evidence. Ccrrccrr (talk) 02:20, 11 January 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 6 February 2018
i would like to edit this page because i have some info that is not already on here Username3443 (talk) 21:05, 6 February 2018 (UTC)
 * You'll have to say what edit you want. This where you request that someone else edits the article, not where unlock the article for just long enough for you to edit.  Ian.thomson (talk) 21:07, 6 February 2018 (UTC)