Talk:Food desert

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A food desert is different from a lack of supermarkets
A food desert is different from a lack of supermarkets (if that's really a problem..) 195.224.10.194 (talk) 13:37, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, maybe it is. Maybe it is.-- The LegendarySky Attacker 21:20, 20 August 2009 (UTC)


 * I edited this point in the introductory paragraph and in the definitions so far.Skingski (talk) 22:50, 21 August 2012 (UTC)

I would like to see some sort of citation for healthy food being more expensive calorie for calorie. Is the comparison fresh apple vs. cups of apple sauce? Or more like making a dinner for four for under 10 dollars vs. each person buys a Hungry Man and considers themselves fed? I don't think it's something you can gloss over "generally." If the term was coined by that book then the book itself should be credited for the concept rather than make a tiny article about something people don't really have exposure to outside of the book, making it difficult to establish notability. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.204.8.200 (talk) 16:11, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

There is a difference between the shortage of supermarkets and food deserts. The shortage of supermarkets may not be an actual problem for a local economy that has functioning small businesses that can supply for the community. Food deserts are an issue of accessibility to fresh produce not an issue of being able to travel to or afford supermarket priced food. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.41.171.174 (talk) 19:10, 12 March 2011 (UTC)


 * See the revised Definitions section on this. Researchers disagree as the definition of accessibility varies.Skingski (talk) 22:50, 21 August 2012 (UTC)


 * Hi, I’m new to this page. I have been doing some research to try to improve this article. I have noticed the discussion over the definition of food deserts, I was thinking that it might give a better understanding using the USDA’s definition. I would like to add it, I believe it would greatly improved the understanding of the concept.


 * “According to the USDA, census tracts qualify as food deserts if they meet low-income and low-access thresholds:

1. They qualify as "low-income communities", based on having: a) a poverty rate of 20 percent or greater, OR b) a median family income at or below 80 percent of the area median family income; AND 2. 2. They qualify as "low-access communities", based on the determination that at least 500 persons and/or at least 33% of the census tract's population live more than one mile from a supermarket or large grocery store (10 miles, in the case of non-metropolitan census tracts). (USDA) Therefore it leaves this community to it shop for food in other places, shopping at convenience stores or going to fast food. These option are more expensive and less nutritious food options.” 239to913 (talk) 23:26, 1 November 2015 (UTC)

Shortage of supermarkets is directly linked with Food Deserts-studies have found that supermarkets increase access to quality, healthy food because they offer lower- cost versions. Fewer supermarkets operate in low-income neighborhoods and as a result, residents resort to shop in convenience stores and gas stations. Store audit research suggests that supermarkets are the most effective way to supply communities with a wide selection of fresh and relatively affordable healthy food, and tax incentives target many supermarkets. Moreover supermarkets are open year-round and accept they are typically also open year-round for more convenient hours and generally have EBT (electronic benefit transfer) (Neckerman, Bader, Purciel, & Yousefzadeh, 2009). — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kankan628 (talk • contribs) 19:25, 25 April 2011 (UTC)

This is such a bullshit topic lol. Made up. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.208.45.142 (talk) 21:48, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

I run a food co-op in a community in Cleveland, Ohio. I think it laughable that people don't think this is important or relevant. Whats worse is some of the above opinions about supermarkets. As executive director, and one of those who reviewed the industry analysis and market research before building this co-op, I learned quite a bit about the community we were focusing in on. The Central community IS a food desert, and the definition is so very accurate that it deserves a recommendation. Access to fresh produce is also DIRECTLY related to supermarkets. The corner stores don't sell produce because it has such a short shelf life, and you have to sell so much of it for it to be profitable. These corner stores have a problem with unsanitary conditions; and mostly make their money from alcohol, tobacco, lottery, and junk foods. Many of them even sell carry-out fried foods. The supermarkets make money on mark-ups. Suburban communities provide better returns than urban or rural communities. The latter two is where you will usually find food deserts.

This, of course is my area of expertise. There are definitely higher rates of food related health disparities like high blood pressure, hypertension, high cholesterol, and heart disease. This has quite a bit to do with the availability of nutritious foods. Two thirds of all of Cleveland's low-income projects are in this community. There is ONE supermarket in the entire community. Access to fresh produce is very minimal. Fast food restaurants love these kinds of neighborhoods, because they command a larger portion of the market. After generations pass living in this situation, health problems become commonplace. Anyone who thinks this is a B.S. topic evidently suffers from privilege and entitlement issues.

We are solving a huge problem in poorer communities. If it isn't relevant to you, you are far too disconnected from real life. In this economy, many people who thought this would never be a concern to them are finding themselves at food-banks. Live it up, just another day for you in paradise.Donvalantino (talk) 17:05, 30 April 2011 (UTC)

Supermarket Shortage(s) is a very important topic/issue--one that has been going on for decades and requires proper and extensive coverage on Wikipedia, especially the current efforts being made by major cities to deal with the shortages to curb the related health issues affecting their populations. I believe the topic stands on its own and should be separate from "Food Desert." — Preceding unsigned comment added by Doctorxgc (talk • contribs) 13:58, 28 May 2011 (UTC)


 * I agree.Skingski (talk) 22:50, 21 August 2012 (UTC)


 * I have a suggestion for the implications section.
 * It is important to note, this demographic is mostly nonstandard workers. “Nonstandard work arrangements are nonstandard schedules such as work hours that fall outside “typical business hours (i.e. the nine-to-five day), including rotating shifts and night or evening shifts.” In this situation it makes it harder for people working these hours to make it to a traditional grocery store, especially smaller stores that typically close earlier. Therefore, it illustrates how this problem continues to evolve. It inevidently sends this demographic in search of other alternatives such as fast food or convenience stores, that are generally open later. 239to913 (talk) 00:09, 2 November 2015 (UTC)

"the exclusion refers to the shift of food retailers away from urban areas, an outcome of urban sprawl and segregation." Actually it is an outcome of market viability. Urban supermarkets are closing because no one is shopping there. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 159.178.35.70 (talk) 08:10, 14 March 2012 (UTC)

I'm taking out the line in the intro about how food deserts are associated with Supermarket shortage, because supermarket shortage is more of a factor leading to the creation of a food desert. I would rather replace this with a line about this and other causes of food deserts. Defa16 (talk) 05:38, 25 July 2015 (UTC)

African American communities have the less access to food with in food deserts. “Food access is particularly bad in African-American neighborhoods because of a lack of full-service supermarkets, whether independent or chain. Food access in Hispanic communities is generally better than in African-American neighborhoods due to the presence of independent and small chain supermarkets, but full-service chains are missing. Changes between 2005-2007, in general, have brought more discount stores, but few others, to African-American communities.” Hispanic communities within food deserts have targeted hispanic food market. 239to913 (talk) 23:25, 2 December 2015 (UTC)

Perhaps in the article, more info can be given about how some people don't necessarily "believe in" food deserts? Providing arguments from both sides? H.tennis (talk) 03:46, 2 February 2017 (UTC)

Parts of the article discussing the causes of perceived supermarket shortages should be moved to the Supermarket shortage page.Skingski (talk) 13:07, 8 July 2017 (UTC)(talk)

References and brevity
This article is replete with missing references, such as "(Morland, 2002)," to name one of many. Can this be fixed? Otherwise, they need to go. Also, the article reads like a series of dissertations. Can the gist of each article be presented for the reader? Skingski (talk) 03:44, 18 July 2012 (UTC)

Update: I am going thru the article now to Wikify it. I'm doing it slowly - If you have any problems with an edit or ideas, let me know ASAP. Thanks! Skingski (talk) 22:35, 21 August 2012 (UTC)

it seems as though all of the references are all there H.tennis (talk) 03:44, 2 February 2017 (UTC)

Thanks!Skingski (talk) 14:41, 6 July 2017 (UTC)(talk)


 * As can be seen, I am trying to pare down the verbosity to present the gist of each research article.Skingski (talk) 03:59, 18 July 2017 (UTC)(talk)

Eliminating "Barriers to food access for elderly living in rural food deserts"
I propose this section be deleted or moved to a suitable page since it does not specifically deal with food deserts but the problems faced by elderly in eating well in general.Skingski (talk) 02:43, 24 August 2012 (UTC)
 * I propose to merge the relevant part of this section into the page Food choice of older adults and/or Food security.Skingski (talk) 18:37, 3 July 2017 (UTC)(talk)
 * Deleted "Inability to leave the home" section for reasons above as well as the fact there is no reference to a food desert study to back up subjective conclusions. Moreover, "limited mobility" is asserted without citation as a barrier for the elderly in a prior paragraph.Skingski (talk) 18:40, 6 July 2017 (UTC)(talk)
 * Part of this was moved into Food choice of older adults along with a reference on widows from the Transportation subsection.Skingski (talk) 22:17, 10 July 2017 (UTC)(talk)
 * Moved "Nutritional concerns" subsection into "Health outcomes" section as it is a health outcome. Indeed, this section is supposed to be about "Barriers" not health outcomes.Skingski (talk) 03:56, 11 July 2017 (UTC)(talk)

I am combining transportation problems for food deserts into this section and will rename this section soon. I moved a paragraph from "Affordability" section. There is another bit on transportation in "Income and food prices" section and the introductory paragraph to "Rural food deserts" to combine. Transportation references currently in the Barriers section include urban food deserts as is. Transportation is a common problem for elderly and poor.Skingski (talk) 19:26, 11 July 2017 (UTC)(talk)

Eliminating paragraph on community gardens
The paragraph proposed to be deleted starts, "One community intervention that increases food access is the community garden." As can be seen on the relevant Wiki page (Community gardening in the United States), such gardens are not meant to be a food source for deprived neighborhoods, but rather "a promising approach to promote healthy behaviors." As a behavior modification tool, it is therefore unrelated to the topic of food deserts (areas deprived of or with high barriers of access to healthful food sources).Skingski (talk) 21:50, 27 August 2012 (UTC)
 * This was deleted. It is also noted there is no reference that proposes this as a solution. Skingski (talk) 05:48, 3 July 2017 (UTC)User:Skingski

Stray references
I went through the article and standardized everything as inline footnotes, but there were a few stray references at the bottom that didn't correspond to any specific text. I'm placing them here for reference. Calliopejen1 (talk) 20:20, 18 February 2014 (UTC)

In which countries does this problem occur?
In which Western countries do the relatively poor have any difficulty accessing healthy foods? It evidently exists in the United States. But which other countries has this problem? My dad claims that food deserts occur in Britain, too. As far as I know neither Sweden, Italy, France or the Netherlands have this kind of problem. In these countries relatively healthy food is actually less expensive than junk food. Also, fresh fruits are available everywhere in the cities. I think the situation is the same throughout most of Europe. Lena Synnerholm, Märsta, Sweden. 2015-01-04

I am going to try to tackle this issue and broaden the article to a global context (if it exists, which it probably does). I will nest the US sections with other countries if/when I do. Let me know if you had ideas/suggestions/sources you would like incorporated. Defa16 (talk) 05:29, 25 July 2015 (UTC)


 * As I note on this page (Issues by Region -- United States), nesting the U.S. in this section makes little sense since the entire article is about the U.S. and to some extent Canada. So I propose merging the small bits of US info into the rest of the article, but keeping the "Issues by Region" section (retitled -- "Issues by Regions Outside the U.S."?) for other countries.Skingski (talk) 18:51, 15 July 2017 (UTC)(talk)


 * Hi, I’m new to this page. I have been doing some research to try to improve this article. I was following the advice of what this needs. “The examples and perspective in this article deal primarily with the United States and do not represent a worldwide view of the subject.” So I’ve been searching for information, I found an article supporting evidence of food desert in Melbourne, Australia. “In Melbourne, households with lower individual socio-economic position and area disadvantages have restricted access to food because of lack of money and /or having physical limitations due difficulty lifting or lack of access to a car for food shopping.” 239to913 (talk) 01:05, 6 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Food desert in France- “European (non-UK) food access research also frequently highlights the problem of poverty in relation to accessing a healthy diet.” France researches have noted that lower income consumers have a tendency to reach for more affordable items such as high caloric foods, (i.e. cereals, sweets, and added fats) instead of nutrient rich single source foods. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 239to913 (talk • contribs) 18:15, 2 November 2015 (UTC)


 * Be careful of editorializing or advocating in your findings and in your research. But contributions are indeed welcome! Hires an editor (talk) 02:13, 1 December 2015 (UTC)

Also, there is this poorly designed but full of information website from England: Hires an editor (talk) 02:17, 1 December 2015 (UTC)


 * Is there enough evidence to say that food deserts is a widespread multi-country problem. I've been researching, for several months and not got a lot to add to this section.239to913 (talk) 23:32, 2 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Not sure where you've been researching. Wikipedia offers its editors access to various academic and other behind-paywall or other restricted access journals (you'll have to investigate that, though). My own personal opinion is that this is likely a First-World problem, in that lack of access to food in most other regions of the world isn't measured this way. To be more PC about it: Developed economies have a different issue regarding food access than do developing ones, and so discussing the issue is going to use different terms and language. Hires an editor (talk) 00:47, 3 December 2015 (UTC)


 * I guess what I’m saying is it might be a problem, but I’m not sure there is enough documentation to commit to the statement that it is a worldwide. I appreciate your feedback and thoughts. I have been searching academic search engines and using peer-review articles. I searched different terms, food security, food access, and other combination.I found this one particularly article interesting, and maybe explain why it wasn't easy finding lots of articles. I agree you are most likely correct say its a First-World problem.
 * “Food deserts exist, at least in the United States. Evidence is both abundant and robust enough for us to conclude that Americans living in low income and minority areas ten to have poor access to healthy food. However, Studies on the price of food were generally of low-quality, and their findings were mixed. Evidence from other countries is sparse and equivocal. The evidence that is available is much less compelling than evidence from the United States. On this basis, evidence from other countries does not warrant firm conclusions at this time on whether access to healthy, affordable food systematically varies to disadvantaged so socioeconomically deprived ares.”   http://www.cdc.gov/pcd/issues/2009/jul/08_0163.htm


 * What are your thoughts?239to913 (talk) 05:06, 3 December 2015 (UTC)

Are there really any food deserts in France? Anyone wo can verify or refute this?

2015-12-31 Lena Synnerholm, Märsta, Sweden. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.114.144.9 (talk) 18:36, 31 December 2015 (UTC)

This section on countries is on a new page Food deserts by country.Skingski (talk) 20:08, 29 July 2017 (UTC)(talk)

Why simply adding a grocery store to a food desert isn't the answer.
Additional Barriers

There are safety concerns for residents of food deserts. Many food deserts are in high crime area, with bulletproof glass or bars on the windows, not a comfortable shopping environment. The neighborhoods have higher rates of community violence, with most having a lack of transportation. They will also have to walk these streets caring their food, and maybe also being responsible of a child or children.239to913 (talk) 01:55, 2 December 2015 (UTC)
 * This is addressed in the article.Skingski (talk) 00:42, 15 July 2017 (UTC)(talk)

Online EBT Purchases
I made the following edits to the article, I plan to do more research about other areas of the country that may be engaging in online EBT purchases. I think that this information betters the article in that it can open peoples eyes to the fact that there are people trying to correct the pains of food deserts. "State and federal agencies in New York are working together to create a program that allows EBT users the option to purchase healthful foods online and have them delivered to their homes. In the fall of 2016 a pilot program was launched in conjunction with an established food delivery company, FreshDirect. This pilot allows two zip codes in the Bronx to have access to the services provided by FreshDirect and the option to pay by EBT. The advancements being made by the USDA to enhance access to fresh local foods could eliminate the existence of food deserts in areas that gain access to this food delivery model.[75]" Does anyone know of any other areas in the country where these advancements are being made? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Greenmachine3 (talk • contribs) 02:16, 8 November 2016 (UTC)

The edited version of this has been moved to the new page Food deserts by country. Skingski (talk) 23:02, 4 August 2017 (UTC)(talk)

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Food desert in West Oakland merger
Portions of this page (Food desert in West Oakland) should be merged into this one and the remainder may be deleted as it is irrelevant to food deserts. Skingski (talk) 05:57, 3 July 2017 (UTC)(talk)
 * Completed merger from this page and added redirect to here.Skingski (talk) 19:42, 18 July 2017 (UTC)(talk)

Merging "Proposed solutions to rural food deserts" into "Barriers and proposed solutions"
The former section contains information that also appears in the latter (Both deal with only America). As well, all? the solutions listed for rural food deserts are not limited to rural areas and some are only in urban food deserts. Therefore, I propose to merge them and separate "Barriers and proposed solutions" into two separate sections if possible. Skingski (talk) 22:03, 5 July 2017 (UTC)(talk)
 * The item, "* Residents in community-supported agriculture programs (CSAs) must commit to buying some produce from a local farmer annually", is moved into Farmers market article with an appropriate reference. CSAs are inappropriate for low-income residents due to how risky they are.  If there is a bad crop year, residents receive little or no produce in return for their money.  Moreover, presumably low-income residents wouldn't have much money saved to afford to buy a CSA box to begin with.Skingski (talk) 17:24, 14 July 2017 (UTC)(talk)
 * Completed merger of sections. As noted in edits, this section has no info on "Barriers", so that part of title was dropped.Skingski (talk) 18:44, 15 July 2017 (UTC)(talk)

Moved detailed information from "Incentivizing supermarket and grocery store number" to the main Supermarket_shortage.Skingski (talk) 01:15, 23 July 2017 (UTC)(talk)

Mexico: "Obesity"
No reference in this section examines food deserts. Consequently, the information here was moved into the Wikipedia page Obesity in Mexico.Skingski (talk) 22:32, 5 July 2017 (UTC)(talk)

Mexico
This entire section deals exclusively with dietary trends, farming and such, not food deserts. No study on food deserts in Mexico is presented. This section should be deleted or merged into Obesity in Mexico.Skingski (talk) 14:47, 6 July 2017 (UTC)(talk)
 * Food resources subtopic entirely dealt with Food security and was moved into that page.Skingski (talk) 19:20, 6 July 2017 (UTC)(talk)
 * Moved remaining dietary trend section into Obesity_in_Mexico; deleted section.Skingski (talk) 16:21, 9 July 2017 (UTC)(talk)

Issues by Region -- United States
This section has redundant information to what precedes in the article as the article is entirely about the U.S. until we reach "Issues by Region." I propose to move and merge the information on the U.S. in this section into the prior portions of the article.Skingski (talk) 01:31, 12 July 2017 (UTC)(talk)
 * Deleted redundant information:
 * – paragraph on "2.4 million households" is said earlier in the article with same reference;
 * – "there are disparities in the retail food environment" said previously in "Racial, ethnic, and socioeconomic disparities" and elsewhere with same+other citations;
 * – "larger supermarkets have followed this trend and are most prevalent in these white suburban neighborhoods" said already in "Racial, ethnic, and socioeconomic disparities" with same citationSkingski (talk) 15:31, 17 July 2017 (UTC)(talk)
 * Moved "food swamps" information to "Affordability" subsection.Skingski (talk) 15:31, 17 July 2017 (UTC)(talk)
 * Moved food desert mapping paragraph into mapping info in "Measuring food access" "Distance" and "Fresh food availability" subsections.Skingski (talk) 15:48, 17 July 2017 (UTC)(talk)
 * Completed move.Skingski (talk) 19:52, 20 July 2017 (UTC)(talk)

This section and other countries moved to new page Food deserts by country.Skingski (talk) 20:06, 29 July 2017 (UTC)(talk)

Affordability and Economic pressures
These sections say virtually the same thing and should be merged.Skingski (talk) 21:57, 12 July 2017 (UTC)(talk)
 * Merged sections.Skingski (talk) 19:55, 16 July 2017 (UTC)(talk)

Data from income/food prices studies in the "Income and food prices" subsection were also merged into Affordability subsection. The former section is devoted to defining the parameters of what constitutes a food desert. The latter is interested in research outcomes.Skingski (talk) 21:04, 16 July 2017 (UTC)(talk)

This was moved to Food deserts by country. Skingski (talk) 23:01, 4 August 2017 (UTC)(talk)

Implications
This section's first paragraph deals with the problem deriving from low numbers of supermarkets in food deserts. This issue is also addressed in the "Racial, ethnic, and socioeconomic disparities" and "United States" sections. This information should be combined and a subsection with an appropriate title for this with a link to the main relevant page, Supermarket shortage.Skingski (talk) 00:42, 13 July 2017 (UTC)(talk)
 * Moved a relevant paragraph from "Racial, ethnic, and socioeconomic disparities" into this section. Other parts of "Racial, ethnic, and socioeconomic disparities" section may need to be moved here as well.Skingski (talk) 20:44, 16 July 2017 (UTC)(talk)

Research
This section is almost entirely devoted to health outcomes and belongs in that section entitled "Health outcomes". Moreover, the entire article is a recitation of research, so the title of this section does not make sense.Skingski (talk) 00:42, 13 July 2017 (UTC)(talk)
 * Moved paragraph 1 of "Research" into "Implications" section; the rest (entirely devoted to health outcomes) was moved into "Health outcomes" subsection; deleted "Research" section.Skingski (talk) 03:43, 18 July 2017 (UTC)(talk)

Beyond physical access
I propose to consolidate most items on people's decisions on what foods they choose to consume into this section since they do not deal with physical access, and add a wikilink to Food choice for more information.Skingski (talk) 20:15, 14 July 2017 (UTC)(talk)
 * Consolidated most information on food choice (behavior, education, etc) here. Also moved fast-food information on behavior and locations here as it is not in itself related to food deserts.Skingski (talk) 01:24, 20 July 2017 (UTC)(talk)

I think the subsections "Work and family", "Safety and store appearance" and "Fast food" should be eliminated or moved to a different wiki page. These issues are not unique to food deserts. Alternatively, we could summarize them in one sentence as mitigating factors.Skingski (talk) 16:42, 3 August 2017 (UTC)(talk)

Africa
This section is exceedingly verbose and doesn't even make sense in places.Skingski (talk) 16:33, 17 July 2017 (UTC)(talk)

"Definition" and "Differences in measuring" subsections have much of the same information. Merged the similar information and kept transportation problems in the latter section with a new titleSkingski (talk) 17:42, 17 July 2017 (UTC)(talk)

This section and other countries moved to new page Food deserts by country.Skingski (talk) 17:53, 1 August 2017 (UTC)(talk)

Definitions
"While there are a myriad of definitions for the term food desert, " -- this isn't accurate. There is one definition mentioned in the first sentence of the article for "food desert." The mention of controversy I think would be better served in a separate section on "Controversy."Skingski (talk) 20:15, 29 July 2017 (UTC)(talk)

"Measuring food access" should be moved into the "Definitions" section since every subsection here are essentially expounding on the parameters listed in "Definitions."Skingski (talk) 20:23, 29 July 2017 (UTC)(talk)
 * Merged. Skingski (talk) 00:41, 8 August 2017 (UTC)(talk)

Rural food deserts
This section is entirely about U.S. food deserts and so should be moved into Food deserts by country. Skingski (talk) 22:50, 4 August 2017 (UTC)(talk)

History
Created new section, moving info from introduction into it and adding a bit more. A concern is citing the term "desert" being first used in 1973. I think it is helpful, but the reference it is from is a thesis. It quotes p. 3 of a book by John D. Baines ("The environment," Batsford, London, 1973). Many sources post-2003 seem to copy the same info from this thesis. I can't find an e-copy of Baines to double check or a better scholarly publication. -- Since it is just a thesis, I should think it only be used here and not for other things that can be verified by publications. Skingski (talk) 04:38, 10 August 2017 (UTC)(talk)
 * Sadly I can't find the 1995 document from the policy working group of the Low Income Project Team of the UK's Nutrition Task Force. But everyone in the field cites it, starting with the reference I used, Cummins and MacIntyre 2002. Skingski (talk) 04:52, 10 August 2017 (UTC)(talk)

Removed suspected copyright violations
Some new additions were recently put into the article, but the formatting of this text makes it clear it is not being written for Wikipedia, but is being copied verbatim and pasted into the Wikipedia article. While expansion and revision of this article is appreciated, it must be original writing (with proper citations, of course) and cannot be merely copied from a prior source. WP:COPYVIO has relevent policy direction here. -- Jayron 32 17:09, 17 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Jayron- I was remiss in adding the course note- students had created this content as a small group project so while it was C&P from their working document, it is original content. Thanks Richardjames444 (talk) 02:24, 12 December 2017 (UTC)

Copyright problem removed
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History section

 * The history section could use some expansion, to include history of the phenomenon, not just the term. Abramshaw1 (talk) 03:44, 13 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Easier said than done. The problem is the term "food desert" was invented/accepted before evidence for such a thing was found.  Thus, sociologists have presented various ideas as to what general real-world problem should be denoted by it -- e.g., lack of grocery stores, low-priced grocery stores, stores with healthy food, fresh produce and/or local produce, cultural barriers, traditional diets, types of access, some or all of these options, etc. Skingski (talk) 19:45, 2 March 2018 (UTC)skingski

New Article: Food deserts in Texas
The food desert parent page is relatively well-developed, but there is no page looking at food deserts in specific places. I am interested in writing an article on food deserts in Texas specifically. Please refer to my user talk page for more updates. Aminawilliams (talk) 13:39, 6 September 2018 (UTC)

Elephant
Wikipedia depends on reliable sources, defined as politically correct academics, so I thought I'd point out the elephant in the room: Supermarkets are unlikely to be built in minority neighborhoods because minorities commit more robberies and shoplifting. The cost is passed on to consumers, one way or another. Also, poverty makes it easier to eat healthy, not harder: the cheapest, healthiest food is in the produce aisle, and the unhealthiest, most expensive food is fast food and restaurant food. If everyone wanted cabbage instead of french fries, businesses would find it profitable to meet that demand. Apparently the factors that make neighborhoods poor resemble the factors that make them prefer fast food. Art LaPella (talk) 18:15, 15 September 2018 (UTC)
 * You are suggesting one possible cause for food deserts. It might be a good idea for the article to have a "Causes" section. I don't currently see any discussion of causes... Ar2332 (talk) 19:12, 15 September 2018 (UTC)
 * You are correctly identifying an elephant, but I suggest you find a book or research paper covering the topic and cite it. Large supermarkets actually don't "avoid" minority areas, they simply "prefer locating" in suburban areas with parking and access to the wealthiest customers. We fought one of these battles in my home city of 100,000. Fought and lost. Your points are not all true however. The cheapest calories and satisfaction are not in the produce aisle, they are at the take out window. When you are hungry, raw cabbage loses to a mayo slathered hamburger every time. Anyways, cheers 72.141.106.240 (talk) 17:58, 23 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Previous editor's comment might be interpreted as suggesting that grocery stores do not enter some areas, resulting in some areas being "food deserts". Instead, I believe it is grocery stores leaving previous locations as they become unprofitable, creating food deserts. The questions we should ask are about why businesses leave, not why businesses do not enter areas. Is it shoplifting, lower sales, security risks, smaller numbers of customers, sales of low profit items, etc.? Instead of "food desert", a term that focuses on the present situation, it might be useful to view this through a different lens/label, such as "retail withdrawal". Instead of only complaining about the problem (and it is a genuine problem), it will be helpful to reduce/prevent this problem in other areas by asking such questions as, "Why do established stores, including grocery stores, close their stores in some locations? What can be done to keep retail stores? What are early signs of an area becoming a food desert?" This approach may provide steps to keep stores open, which is easier than trying to entice stores to return. Editor AR2332 called for a section on causes and I heartily agree.  Complex topic: too easy to shout slogans, much harder to bring about needed community change.
 * I see many students are looking at this page for courses. I challenge them to look at the true complexity of the situations, not simplistically blaming retail companies. What initiatives can communities themselves do to retain important retail stores, including grocery stores and pharmacies?Pete unseth (talk) 20:29, 29 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Again, the matter of the causes for areas becoming food deserts is neglected in the article. Many have written about consequences of food deserts, but the factors that are invovled in the process of areas becoming deserts has been neglected. The changes that lead to an area becoming a food desert take place over a period of years, or at least months. Retail withdrawal affects many businesses, not only those that sell groceries. It is not popular to say it, but the negative actions of some of the people within communities can lead to stores closing and leaving those neighborhoods. A useful section on "Causes leading to food deserts" should examine this and list things more specific than "economic conditions". I drove through a food desert yesterday and I was wondering how it became this. I have some ideas, but we need more than my hunches.Pete unseth (talk) 19:12, 9 June 2023 (UTC)

Expanding on History
In the History section of the article, it mentions how the term "food desert" was coined and officially adopted. However, I think that the History section of this article should not only outline the emergence of the word "food desert" but also how food deserts themselves started to come about and evolve over time. AMRara (talk) 04:03, 6 September 2019 (UTC)
 * I agree with this statement. There needs to be a larger discussion as to why food deserts became associated with racial inequality, as the current paragraph structure seems to be incohesive. --Moonleigh (talk) 01:36, 22 April 2022 (UTC)

"Controversy"
Afaik, there is much polemic if the concept of "food desert" is relevant or even makes sense (an example of an article questioning the relevance of food deserts); should not that is a section "Controversies" or "Opposing views" in the article?--MiguelMadeira (talk) 13:34, 23 July 2020 (UTC)

Health literacy
It's not really clear how the section on health literacy relates to the overall topic of food deserts. Since health literacy is about individual choices. Whereas, food deserts are caused by systemic issues that have nothing to do with the individual. No one that lives more then a mile away from grocery store and lacks transportation is going to is going to magically start buying healthier products just because they learn to read food labels. At least that's how I understand it. Can someone elaborate on the connection between the two concepts, if there is one, so it can be better reflected in the article? --Adamant1 (talk) 04:25, 22 September 2021 (UTC)


 * Editor Adamant1 said "food deserts are caused by systemic issues". We need more study on the processes which lead to food desserts. It may be helpful to think of the causes including the sum of many individual decisions in the community. "Systemic issues" can be "systemic results" and also "systemic causes." The article desperately needs a good discussion on trends within a community that lead to withdrawal of grocery and other retail stores, and also the trends that lead to retail stores not (re)entering communities. Pete unseth (talk) 17:52, 22 September 2021 (UTC)


 * I don't disagree. It's possible a lack of health literacy leads people to not shop at grocery stores. Which in turn causes them to close. Therefore leading to food deserts. That's the only connection I think of, but there isn't any research that I'm aware that makes the connection. So maybe it's better to leave the section on health literacy out of the article for now or at least only give it a brief mention somewhere instead of a complete subsection. --Adamant1 (talk) 12:13, 23 September 2021 (UTC)

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 18 January 2021 and 14 May 2021. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Yaydnew. Peer reviewers: OctopusGarden91, Natalieychu, Manorhe18.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 11:08, 18 January 2022 (UTC)

Shoplifting
I added the following to the introduction of the article:

All across the country, numerous mainstream sources have reported that shoplifting and looting are major causes of food deserts.

User:Kind Tennis Fan deleted it, and commented, "Rv. good faith recent edits, but in my view not an improvement, as it may be undue for the lead section which should only be a summary of the main content, as per WP:LEAD. Also overcite and a cite error. Please gain consensus on the talk page first for this content in the lead section."

I'd like to hear what others think of this.

Thanks for your comments!

Baxter329 (talk) 17:57, 31 January 2022 (UTC)


 * It's been three weeks and no one has responded. I'm going to put the content back in the article, but not in the introduction. Baxter329 (talk) 03:03, 23 February 2022 (UTC)


 * I have been surprised that the matter of theft was never mentioned previously in the article. When large grocery stores close their doors in some neighborhoods, it is not because the people have quit eating. They do it because they are not making a profit. Theft is clearly one part of the broad picture. We need to think about the process of how areas become "food deserts", not merely classify areas as whether they are "food deserts", or not. Theft needs to be acknowledged as potentially one of the major factors in the closing of existing stores in communities that still have many residents. The recent edit has very many citations, but nobody will be able to say it's only an isolated problem. Pete unseth (talk) 15:31, 23 February 2022 (UTC)
 * That is precisely why I included so many citations. The problem is broad and widespread. I also agree with you that it seems odd that the issue wasn't already in the article. It certainly has received a massive amount of reporting from reliable sources. Baxter329 (talk) 21:09, 26 February 2022 (UTC)

I found the number of "sources" given suspicious so I took a very quick look at them. A lot seem to be very duplicative and unnecessary. I didn't listen/watch all the audio/video ones but I did search them all and fully zero of them contained the phrase "major cause" in any context, never mind in a way that supports the claim here. (Note: I searched for "major cause" not "major source", as it says in my edit summary on the article. That was a mistake in my edit summary.) Furthermore, we already have the paragraph beginning Crime plays an important role in food deserts. which covers this matter perfectly adequately. Accordingly, I have removed the paragraph as I feel it adds nothing to the article not already covered far better. --DanielRigal (talk) 22:31, 26 February 2022 (UTC)

The entire text related to theft/shoplifting as a contributing cause to the creation of food deserts by stores closing seems to have been deleted. This makes us speculate about the motives. Somebody please restore some mention of shoplifting as a contributing cause to some grocery stores closing. Pete unseth (talk) 02:03, 30 March 2022 (UTC)
 * That is an excellent point. SquirrelHill1971 (talk) 21:34, 22 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Per your request to restore the material, I added the following to the section called "Causes." It's mostly the same, with a few changes, most notably the addition of links to archives:


 * Food deserts have been created by shoplifting and looting in neighborhoods in the U.S. cities of Chicago    , Minneapolis   , Philadelphia  , Pittsburgh , San Francisco,      and Seattle.


 * SquirrelHill1971 (talk) 21:35, 22 August 2023 (UTC)


 * (Coming from recent changes patrol) it was interesting to see this issue picked up again after a year or so on the talk page. I think some extensive pruning needs done regarding the numerous sources. My first impression seeing the edit was that it looks a lot like original research, synthesizing a number of sources to reach a conclusion that isn't expressed in any of them. I checked out a semi-random set of eight of them. First was to search for 'desert' (a good start entering any restaurant), to see if the article even mentioned the topic. They did, but many mentioned a food desert saying that looting made it worse, but nothing about the cause. Among those I saw, the first, from WBEZ (NRP) was the best secondary source for the assertion, as it cited other research indicating that looting can perpetuate or maybe cause a desert from the after-effects, discouraging suppliers from providing an outlet.
 * I'd say there's something there, but if we're going to avoid the elements of original research, I think it needs to be trimmed to eliminate sources that don't mention causation, and rely on the sources that have drawn relevant conclusions. I see the issue history dealt with stating that looting is a "major cause"; here, the edit reads "have been created by"; some might argue for "have been identified as one of the causes of". So the edit needs improvement. It should be trimmed to a short declaration of what the sources say exactly, and a handful of sources suffice to support it. I might not be able to get to this myself ver... not it!  signed, Willondon (talk)  22:51, 22 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Wow! You really put a lot of time and thought into that. I very much appreciate you being so helpful.
 * It's true that the phrase "food desert" doesn't appear in some of the sources. But all of the sources talk about grocery stores disappearing due to crime, and its impact on the local community in terms of making it harder for people to get groceries.
 * Perhaps someone else here will take a look at those sources, and propose an entirely new set of text.
 * Again, thank you for your assistance.
 * SquirrelHill1971 (talk) 06:14, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

Lead Section
The lead section must mention that there are multiple fresh food retailers that must be considered to deem an area a food desert. This section only considers supermarkets, but subsequent sections mention that other retailers such as farmer's markets and warehouse clubs can provide healthier options to these communities as well.--Moonleigh (talk) 01:00, 24 April 2022 (UTC)

Beyond physical access
Sanitation concerns should be further expanded upon in this section. This issue can make community members hesitant to shop in these stores, as already mentioned in the Safety and store appearance subheading. --Moonleigh (talk) 01:19, 24 April 2022 (UTC)

Wikiedu Topic
I am considering editing this article for my wikieducation course. I want to make it easier to read and also add the relatively new terminology of "food apartheid." See my user page for more details. Avamcclung (talk) 04:56, 14 September 2022 (UTC)


 * Adding the term "food apartheid" will need substantive documentation. The term seems to carry the same weakness as have several previous edits (many now deleted) of this article: assuming that grocery stores do not operate in poor neighborhoods as an act of discrimination. Usually, stores withdraw when an area is no longer profitable. Sorry for the grim welcome to this article. Happy editing. Pete unseth (talk) 18:03, 15 September 2022 (UTC)

Wiki Education assignment: Writing for justice and change
— Assignment last updated by VTSC3 (talk) 06:09, 4 October 2022 (UTC)

I want to add another section that brings attention to the term food apartheid since it is only mentioned once in the article. I also want to start a section on global perspectives. — Preceding unsigned comment added by VTSC3 (talk • contribs) 05:54, 3 December 2022 (UTC)

pharmacy access
The article claims that there are many pharmacies in food deserts, that they sell less nutritious foods. Another Wikipedia article complains that there is a pharmacy shortage in poor urban areas.

Can't both be true! Pete unseth (talk) 16:58, 6 May 2023 (UTC)

Wiki Education Assignment
I'm considering revising this article to include a more global perspective on the different academic theories and definitions that have been proposed for food deserts. In addition, because this article is primarily focused on food deserts in the US, I'm considering beginning a new article and transferring a good majority of this article over to the new page and making some revisions to the existing content on the new page. Cd631874 (talk) 04:01, 15 September 2023 (UTC)
 * That sounds sensible to me. Gog the Mild (talk) 21:11, 25 September 2023 (UTC)
 * User:Cd631874/Food desert/Bibliography Here is a link to a description of my planned work as well as an annotated list of sources I plan to reference while creating/revising the two articles.
 * Here is a description of my planned work in revising this existing parent article and creating a new child article focused on food deserts in the US:
 * In order to address the inconsistencies in information (such as the proposed causes of food deserts) and lack of a global perspective on food deserts in the parent article "Food Deserts", I would like to revise the parent article to include more global theories and definitions of food deserts that address food deserts as a global issue without implying it is a problem in every country. Likewise, I’d like to create a new article on food deserts in the US, and move a majority of the content in the current version of the parent article over into the new article. Within the new article, I plan to add to the “History” section of the article to outline the proposed theories on how food deserts emerged in the US as a result of systemic inequalities and unfair policies. There are also some more minor edits I’d like to make to the existing article’s content. Please let me know if you have any suggestions, comments, questions, or concerns. Cd631874 (talk) 22:11, 1 October 2023 (UTC)

Wiki Education assignment: Poverty, Justice, and Human Capabilities
— Assignment last updated by Efloden (talk) 16:09, 25 October 2023 (UTC)

Causes of Food Deserts Section
I drafted a section titled "Causes" to add to this parent article because I recognized a lack of information about the proposed causes of food deserts in the current version of the article. However, in my research, I discovered that most of the proposed causes behind the formation of food deserts are in the context of the US because food deserts is a primarily Western concept that most relevant for the U.S and parts of Europe. Because I'm also planning on creating a new child article focused on food deserts in the US, I'm thinking of adding my newly-drafted causes section to the new article and focusing more on the idea behind not being able to apply the same food desert framework to other countries in this article. Does anyone have any thoughts or concerns? My draft of the "Causes" section is available for viewing in my sandbox, and I'm going to begin drafting the sub-section "Alternative Frameworks to Food Deserts" in there as well. All feedback would be greatly appreciated- thank you! User:Cd631874/Food desert Cd631874 (talk) 22:24, 8 October 2023 (UTC)


 * I finished my draft of the new sub-section titled "Alternative Frameworks to Food Deserts" in my sandbox (User:Cd631874/Food desert). I'm deciding whether or not to move the America-specific paragraph to the new child article "Food Deserts in the US" I intend to create. I'm not entirely sure whether to just include both the global and US perspectives on the shortcomings of the FD concept in this article because they do both provide a holistic review of the concept's potential limitations.
 * If anyone has any thoughts or comments on this, please let me know! All feedback is greatly appreciated. Cd631874 (talk) 01:56, 12 October 2023 (UTC)
 * I drafted a re-write of the existing section on impacts to health in this article in my sandbox (User:Cd631874/Food desert). Any feedback and comments on my draft would be greatly appreciated!Cd631874 (talk) 01:39, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for pinging me for comment. You are asking good questions and at this point in the article's development, there are many options so the choice of next direction depends on you. You are doing fine! Thanks for messaging.  Bluerasberry  (talk)  16:54, 17 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Yes, you could create "Food deserts in the United States" If you made this new child article, then you address a few problems. One is that the article already has a notice at the top saying that it needs to be globalized as it presumes that the US perspective applies everywhere, when it does not. If "food deserts" had all the basic definitions and concepts, and "food deserts in the United States" had all the country-specific concepts, then I think the article would be more readable and open development to coverage for other regions like Africa which you developed. If you go this route, then I recommend merging content over 5-10 edits rather than one big edit so that the edit history leaves an explanation to reviewers about your selection process. Also, do all your merging before doing additional cleanup and editing, so that it is easy to see what you moved before you start changing things.
 * Consider repeating your references after every sentence. In Wikipedia people can start editing everywhere. I am going to give my opinion that I think this article is tangled due to lack of authoritative sources. My wish is that there would be 1-3 authoritative, respected, comprehensive sources which we could cite to establish the basics. Instead this Wikipedia article is establishing the fundamentals through 20+ sources, each for some basic concept. It is usually easier to understand a topic when one source presents the basics, then other sources focus intensely on some nuance. We just cannot do that here because we have no basic sources. Because of this, can you put citations after every sentence you posted? It looks like you are skipping some. This is not a hard rule because often using a citation only at the end of a passage covers the whole passage, but for this article, I think it is a practical reality that we can expect lots of related details from multiple sources.
 * Rethink older sources This may not be a problem for you but as I look at this, I see cited sources which are 20 years old. They may still be relevant, or the info may be outdated. Student editors and beginners are often shy about judging older content, but look around a bit and if you see something outdated or misleading, then consider deleting it with a note or posting about it on the talk page.


 * Thank you so much for your insight and feedback! I truly appreciate the time you took to answer my questions and provide further guidance as I work through this project. Cd631874 (talk) 18:47, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

Consumer choices of what they buy
As I have watched this article over the years, repeatedly reading the Talk section, and reading some of the sources cited, there are repeated mentions of people making poor dietary choices (e.g. fast food) and the need for health education. Also, there have been sections on the health results of poor diet. I have also read about the high numbers of liquor stores in some food desserts. Consumers make their own choices. I find it interesting that the existence of food desserts is often blamed on corporations that close stores and leave certain neighborhoods. How do the choices of residents contribute to poor health and also the creation of food desserts? The article needs a significant section on the processes by which neighborhoods become food desserts. What factors (plural!) contribute to them? Pete unseth (talk) 19:55, 22 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Hi! Thank you for bringing this point up. I added to the "Causes of food deserts" section; let me know your thoughts on my additions. I'm happy to discuss any points with you.Cd631874 (talk) 19:10, 31 October 2023 (UTC)


 * You improved the article. It's a complex subject, and some parts of it are contentious. Pete unseth (talk) 13:59, 1 November 2023 (UTC)

Peer Review Feedback
Great additions to this article. I think that you were very thorough in presenting neutral information in the sections you added, as well as making it easily understandable for those unfamiliar with this topic. I especially enjoyed reading the alternative frameworks section as it contained a lot of interesting and new ideas / literature for me while still being an easy read. The one thing I would suggest is adding more WikiLinks in the sections you wrote - this would help page traffic and clarify some of the terms that may be confusing to readers but do not necessitate an in-text definition or explanation. You could also potentially benefit from some more illustrations (if you can find relevant ones) to avoid continuous large chunks of text (especially in later sections). Overall, I enjoyed reading what you added.

Pouchwarm (talk) 18:32, 23 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Sounds good, thank you so much for your feedback! I will be sure to follow up with any questions I may have as I continue to edit this article. Cd631874 (talk) 00:12, 3 November 2023 (UTC)

Wiki Education assignment: Environment and Justice
— Assignment last updated by W3877 (talk) 20:15, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

Wiki Education assignment: Equitable Futures - Internet Cultures and Open Access
— Assignment last updated by WikiEdit7205 (talk) 18:44, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

Incorrect source for Types of food deserts
The same Tulane article (23) is cited throughout this section however the source contains little/no information about the content it's being cited for. 38.126.26.6 (talk) 16:44, 26 June 2024 (UTC)