Talk:France-Albert René

Untitled
Hmmm, those nasty Americans were behind it all along. It couldn't have anything to do with exiled swingin' James_Mancham, whose voice was heard on the tapes that one of Hoare's men failed to completely destroy?--Jpbrenna 08:49, 30 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * I've never heard such a claim (and I am fairly familiar with Seychelles), but it certainly is a possibility.

By the way, the article implicates South Africa and Ian Smith, not the United States —Sesel 12:25, 30 Mar 2005 (UTC)


 * It doesn't? "...but some theorize that South Africa was just a client state for American interests in the region."


 * You must be joking, South Africa a client state of America! No self-respecting South African would even want to work too closely with the USA, the country could never be said to have been a client state of the USA. The published evidence shows the 1981 coup was initiated by Marcham and his supporter, and backed by South Africa - and possibly America.  There were no "remnants of Ian Smith's former Rhodesian regime" involved.  That country was history.125.237.111.80 (talk) 04:22, 9 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Mancham's whereabouts during the coup attempt are disputed. He claimed to have been in London, but according to the plan worked out with Hoare, he was supposed to be waiting in Nairobi.  (A British journalist claimed to have spoken with him on the day of the coup on Majorca, which is neither London nor Nairobi.  If he was really there, why?  It's one of the many bizzare unanswered questions in this case).


 * Upon receiving word of the successful capture of Rene, his cabinet and the radio tower (which would broadcast a taped message bearing the news of his resumption of power in Seychellois Creole) Mancham and a small group of Kenyan gendarmarie reinforcements were to board a plane for the Seychelles. Rene had reinforced the Seycelles army with Tanzanian troops, and there was apparently some rivalry for influence between Kenya and Tanzania at this time.  The Kenyans refused to become involved in the coup attempt itself, but signalled that they would be ready to help "stabilize" in (a successful) aftermath.  (These details, reported in The New Mercenaries by Anthony Mockler, are, I believe, according to Hoare and some of the other mercenaries.  I don't consider any of them any more or less believalbe than Rene, Mancham and the South Africans.


 * The mercenary who was left behind at the airport ("accidentally," it was claimed), was Jeremiah Puren. He was supposed to destroy all the documents related to the coup, including maps, contracts, broadcast tapes etc. and then try to make the flight.   A half-burned tape was found by a female reporter in the airport ladies room after the Seychelles Army retook the facility and allowed journalists to view the destruction (most of it caused after the mercenaries left, by Seychelles troops who thought they were still there and wanted to "soften-up" the terminal before they entered it).  The recoverable fragments of the tape were played at the mercenaries' trial, and a state radio employee testified that one of the voices was that of Mancham, for whom he had often mixed tapes for official broadcast, in the days before the "revolution."

--Jpbrenna 21:06, 30 Mar 2005 (UTC)


 * We're both right. This passage is about a 1979 abortive coup, but as far as the arrangement of forces against René, I believe it holds for the other coup attempts as well:


 * In 1979, a plot to invade the Seychelles and overthrow René was aborted when it was discovered by his government before the mercenaries were able to leave Durban. An official investigation into the matter by the Seychelles government concluded that the United States and France had been directly involved with the plotters, that the American ambassador in Kenya had been in contact with supporters of James Mancham, the man deposed by René, and that the US Charge d'Affaires in the Seychelles was the link man in the conspiracy. Several of the 120 Americans employed at the US base were expelled from the country. (p. 268 of Blum, William. Killing Hope. Monroe, ME: Common Courage Press, 2004. ISBN 1-56751-252-6)


 * As far as the exact circumstances of the Hoare coup attempt, it appears that I may have exaggerated US involvement in his coup:


 * Hoare testified further that he had met someone from the CIA in Pretoria and informed him of the coup plans. The United States was interested, the soldier of fortune said, but he described the CIA man's attitude as "extremely timid" and Hoare didn't suggest that the United States had played an active role. Under cross-examination, however, he acknowledged telling his troops that the CIA had approved the plan. (ibid., p. 268-69)


 * I'll work on rewording the article later tonight. —Sesel 23:26, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

Clearing a few things
Would be good if someone could provide details about these two alleged coups: "The 1981 attempt was the second major threat to his government at that point in time, and there were two other unsuccessful coup attempts in 1986 and 1987."

It says also that he came to power through a military coup. Shouldn't there then be military information in the infobox? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.4.228.5 (talk) 01:03, 19 December 2017 (UTC)

Planned work
I plan to redo this article within the next few days. —Sesel 03:06, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

"Won elections"
Since there was a coup in 1977, and a one-party state, is it correct to say that Rene "won" the "elections" in 1979, 1984, 1989 and 1993?Royalcourtier (talk) 18:44, 20 November 2014 (UTC)

Neutrality
This article seems very biased, particularly the introduction:


 * During the many years of his Presidency, F. A Rene was an extremely well-loved and respected national figure. He managed to turn Seychelles from a poverty stricken, least developed country to a middle income well-governed state, with universal health coverage and over 90% literacy rate.


 * He is also credited with having provided robust on the job political-training to all the politicians in his camp.

I am skeptical to say the least of any such claims about an autocrat in a single-party African state who came to power through a coup and held office for almost 30 years. Furthermore it seems to contradict much of the "Legacy" section:


 * His critics believe that he and his party are responsible for systematic torture and other human rights abuses involving opponents of the government, allegedly including the death of a prominent dissident in London, Gérard Hoarau. After the 1977 coup, a significant portion of the population (including the deposed President Mancham) fled to the UK and South Africa due to political persecution and fear of the new government's alignment with the Soviet Union, Tanzania and North Korea. René also faced international pressure regarding his government's former requirement that all applicants to the country's secondary education system graduate a compulsory National Youth Service which included traditional curricula, political education and, according to critics, ideological indoctrination and paramilitary training. This requirement was disbanded after the transition to multiparty rule and the organisation was eventually abolished entirely. According to various reports, cronyism, corruption and impunity for law-breaking were problems during René's almost three decades of rule.

67.174.141.241 (talk) 12:40, 17 March 2015 (UTC)

I agree, the veracity of this article seems suspect. If there is anyone who knows of some solid objective sources for information about him, please share. Bzzzing (talk) 03:49, 31 December 2015 (UTC)

From what I understand, after just a small amount of research... it was James Mancham who initially started the boom in tourism in Seychelles in the early 70s before the country was given independence. Mancham knew that it would eventually be given independence, so he invested in creating a tourism industry, and in local politics. By 1976, when independence finally came, Seychelles was already in the midst of a tourism boom, and Mancham had gained enough popularity with the people to get elected president. From that small amount of research, and given the fact that René took over a democratically elected country via a coup, seems to indicate that this article needs a closer look. Bzzzing (talk) 04:37, 31 December 2015 (UTC)

problematic source
The article originally stated:
 * In 1981, a planned invasion of Seychelles by supporters of Mancham with the assistance of American diplomatic staff in Kenya and Seychelles was discovered before it could be carried out. An official investigation also implicated France with involvement in the coup.

The incident referred to in the source, however, was supposedly to take place in 1979. The source, the 2004 edition of Blum's book Killing Hope, gives two references for this supposed invasion attempt and a U.S. role in it. One is an article by Ellen Ray in the emphatically non-RS magazine, Covert Action Information Bulletin, and the other is a 1981 article from the Durban Sunday Tribune, which apparently claimed that an "official investigation" had turned up evidence of U.S. involvement in a coup plot; Blum gives no other information. Blum's work is full of badly sourced and inaccurate claims; something more substantial is needed to support this statement. Rgr09 (talk) 23:21, 5 July 2019 (UTC)

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 * Rene and chirac.jpg