Talk:French Foreign Legion/Archive 1

Glasses ban
Hello, I think some mention should be made that the Legion doesn't accept those that wear glasses. (so around 25% of literate populations!). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.81.88.186 (talk) 12:45, 2 February 2015 (UTC)

Foreign Legion Equipment
Should we expand more on the equipment used by fighting forces (not just by the Legion but in general)? I feel like it would be useful to someone doing a research project on the Legion during a specific period.--CoriDoodle (talk) 19:42, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

The Gulf War
Shouldn't that be Kuwait, not Iraq, that they went into? I don't think anyone went into Iraq in 1990, especially not deeply. -- popsix
 * You can look at the map in the Gulf War article and judge for yourself if it was deep or not, but in Iraq they were. Carl Logan 20:01, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

Negative popsix, The Legion operated on the US left flank in Saudi and moved directly into Iraq during combat operations. They never touched Kuwait till well after the cessation of hostilities. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.184.144.97 (talk) 11:55, 20 March 2010 (UTC)

Unencyclopedic

 * The reason for its survival may be as John Elting says: "The French, being a thrifty and practical people, have always been eager to let any available foreigners assist them in any necessary bleeding and dying for la Patrie."[1]

That's an extremely un-encyclopedic sentence, violates NPOV among other things. Especially bad way to begin an article. No I'm not French; I'm actually an American and hate France. But still. Xiphoris 04:23, 7 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Vive la freedom fries! rofl-- 178.115.170.201 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 09:03, 9 April 2011 (UTC).

All caps
Shouldn't this article be at French Foreign Legion, not French foreign legion? All caps I would think as it is a proper name. Rmhermen 13:59, 30 Jul 2003 (UTC)

Cole Porter?
Reading the Wiki about Cole Porter I wonder when he was in the Legion ?
 * He was never a legionaire. He lied! Cat Balou 07:24, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

French mainland soil
"The proposition that 'French legislation prohibits the Legion from French mainland soil, and it is therefore based on Corsica' is obviously false" -- I always thought it was the desire of the French Foreign Legion never to be stationed on French soil, for various reasons of unit pride & doctrine. Besides, during the Battle of France, 1940, it was dispatched to the French mainland to fight the Germans. (IIRC, once inside France the formations were not redeployed in time to actually engage the Germans.) -- llywrch 21:01, 23 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Source for refusing French applicants?
Is there any source for the Legion refusing French applicants? David.Monniaux 19:34, 4 Apr 2004 (UTC)

In the past they could enlist, but only if they stated their nationality as Belgian, Swiss, or some other foreign French-speaking country. Nowadays everybody needs to provide a valid identification, but it seems that the French are also allowed to join. An excellent source for information on the history of the French Foreign Legion is the book "The French Foreign Legion", by Douglas Porch (ISBN 0-06-092308-3)66.167.104.91 07:14, 9 October 2005 (UTC)

Hello - When the Légion Étrangere was created by Royal decree in 1831, it was envisaged as a unit comprising foreigners only. Foreign units, based on French soil, had existed in one way or another in the French forces since the 1420's, but the French Revolution put an end to that for a while, as foreign troops were viewed by the revolutionaries as agents of the repressive monarchy. Swiss troops were particularly feared, as they had proved loyal to the death for King Louis XVI against the Paris mob. Napoleon widely used foreign troops in his Grande Armée, but not based in France. The restoration of the monarchy after Napoleon's departure saw the return of Swiss troops loyal to the King.

During further revolutionary turmoil in the 1820's, King Charles X, wishing to keep his throne, bowed to public presure and disbanded his Swiss units, but left them to fend for themselves in the streets of Paris. The Paris populace was not amused. He was deposed in 1830 and Louis-Philippe, Duc d'Orleans, elected as constitutional monarch. Forming a legion of foreigners to serve in the conquest of Algeria and be based there, was his way of getting rid of the Swiss ex-soldiers from the streets of Paris. That is the main reason why Frenchmen were excluded and the Legion was not to set foot in France - a political reason. However, excluding Frenchmen was not viable. From the beginning, French mayors saw a way of emptying their jails and many petty criminals were unloaded on the newly-forming Legion. To be accepted, they had to declare themselves Belgian, Swiss or other Francophone nationality. Suitably qualified Frenchmen were accepted as French into the Legion however - as officers. That has been the pattern right up into modern times, with a relaxation of rules on 3 occasions, Franco-Prussian War 1870/71, Great War (WWI) 1914-1918 and WW2 1939-45. On these occasions, additional manpower was quickly required and war-duration units were raised. As well as recruting foreign residents and incoming foreign volunteers (from still-neutral countries), the Legion was permitted to recruit Frenchmen. The Legion's war-volunteer battalion of the Franco-Prussian War was raised mainly from Bretons, parts of the bataillon de marche/regiment de marche of 1914-15 included Frenchmen and the 11e and 12e REI of 1939-1940 openly had many Frenchmen.

In modern times, the introduction of tighter security and admission rules, has meant full identity checks. It is now easy to see if someone is French or not, where previously a French candidate would just decalre himself Belgian or suchlike. To continue to accommodate Frenchmen, in this high security age, Frenchmen are permitted to join, but to satisfy tradition may then be declared as another French-speaking nationality.

As for not being allowed on French soil, since 1831, the loyalty and fighting abilities of the Legion was proved over the next 40 years in Algeria, Spain, Crimea and Mexico, so by the start of the Franco Prussian War in 1870 - time of great danger for France, the no-France rule was postponed and the Legion was shipped to France to fight against the Germans. A wartime-only volunteer battalion was also raised in France for that war. Of course, France's growing colonial empire meant expansion of the Legion and new bases outside Algeria - Indochina, Madagascar, Dahomey, Morocco. At the start of WWI in 1914, a composite regiment of legionnaires statuioned in Algeria was sent to France. Various wartime Legion volunteer battalions were raised in France itself, from foreigners and Frenchmen. Severe battle losses plus ongoing return of certain allied nationalities to their own armed forces as they too entered the war. saw the need to reform the Legion's units in France into one big regiment - Le Régiment de Marche de la Légion Étrangère (R.M.L.E.). By the end of the war, it was France's most decorated regiment. Today, the regiment's descendants, 3E REI, wear an updated form of the old RMLE's triple fouragère.

In early 1940, the 1er REI, based in Algeria, formed a composite unit - 13e D.B.L.E., to be sent to Finland as part of a French/British task-force, to assist the Finns in their fight to repel the invasion by the Soviet Union. The joint-allied force was too late to help, but a new war awaited them when Germany invaded Norway in April 1940. The same allied force landed in Norway and fought the German invaders. The Legion was heavily involved at the battle of Narvik. When it appeared the allies had almost won the war in Norway, they were withdrawn to defend France which was now being invaded. France fell before help came and the 13e DBLE was now based in Britain. The 13e DBLE was joined by other French units based in Britain who had escaped defeat and capture and was sorted into a new formation - the Free French Brigade (aka Fighting French), led by General Koenig and the only truly French fighting force available to the Allies. These were De Gaulle's Free French. Soon, the brigade joined the British 8th Army and fought against Rommel in the desert campaign, where the 13e DBLE fought valiantly.

As mentioned above, the Legion also raised war-duration units in France in 1939, they fought well in 1940 when the Germans invaded France and suffered many casualties. They were disbanded when France surrendered.

Since France granted independence to Algeria in 1962, certain legion units were sent to reamining French possessions or closely-allied ex-colonies. Other units were allowed at last to have their bases in mainland France and Corsica. That has worked well, however, Corsican separatist movements since tried to split from France and objected to the Legion's presence. As a result, the Legion's 2e REI was moved to as new base in Nimes (mainland France) whilst the 2e REP remains in Corsica.

Lastly, don't forget that since the end of WWI, Paris has hosted a grand parade on Bastille Day every 14th July. The Legion has always been represented and still is. Each year a different representative formation of the Legion takes part and its march down the Champs Elysee is a highlight of the military parade. Traditionally, the Legion marches last of all in the procession of marching or motorised military units. This is for a practical reason - the Legion's parade march is executed at a stately 88 paces to the minute, slow by most marching standards. This goes way back the the direct Swiss ancestors of the Legion, the Regiment (Legion) de Hohenlohe of the 1820's French army, who paraded at that pace. There's a sort of irony there, today's Legion, well loved by the Paris crowd, slow-marching in the tradition of the hated Swiss of the old monarchy, who ere hated by the Paris mob !

Regards Lachlan Gow 29/10/05

Legion tried to assassinate Charles de Gaulle
Didn't the Vichy loyal part of the legion have a plan to assassinate de Gaulle over the ceding of Algeria? If no one opposes I'll add it in. Also, isn't this the basis of not letting the legion operate withing France?


 * Sasquatch, unless you have citable reference for this, I think you should use proper wording such that it is not taken as fact. Since the FFL is an unusual formation, it is subject to much myth and rumor.  Let's not add to the confusion.  As far as I know, the story of FFL elements wanting to assassinate de Gaulle was from the original version of the movie "The Jackal", based on Forsyth's novel of the same name, and is fictional (http://www.destgulch.com/movies/jackal/).  There may be members or alumni of the FFL in the AOS, which was a secret organization opposed to de Gaulle and ultimately attempted to assassinate him, but it's not predominantly FFL.  Many units of FFL are in fact now based in France, for example in Aubagne near Marseille.  Only the paratrooper part (2eme) is based in Corsica.  When you refer to Vichy loyal part of the legion, are you referring to elements that *used* to be in the Vichy part of the legion?  If you can share your sources, I'd love to read/hear about it.  Please sign your comments with four consecutive tildes to get a nice time stamp.  Julius.kusuma 10:55, 3 Jan 2005 (UTC)


 * Well, i stayed up late last night watching a TV program on the Discovery Civilization channel... and it briefly mentioned the plot as fact (although i have yet to find any other source). Though this seems sketchy, I was merely seeing if anyone more knowlegeble on the issue knew more about this. Also, i am refering to the elments the used to be loyal to the vichy as i am well aware they merged later but there was a period of division between the legion. Anyways, just one of my curiosities, did not intend to degrade the legion in any way and it is true that the legion was banned from operating in France for a while (although i'm not clear on the dates). and sorry bout the tide thing Sasquatch 06:03, 4 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Beware: In French military history, the acronym FFL refers not to the French Foreign Legion but to the Free French Forces (Forces Françaises Libres) that fought alongside General De Gaulle during the Second World War. --F Sykes 15:17, 15 July 2005 (UTC)

Er... sorry if I sound pretentious, but one should really be prudent before stating "facts" on Wikipedia on topics one does not know much about, basing oneself upon some vague statements in TV shows.


 * The group that staged several assassination attempts on de Gaulle was the OAS. The real-life organizer of the much publicized machine-gun attack on de Gaulle at the Petit-Clamart, Jean-Marie Bastien-Thiry, was not a Vichy nostalgic, nor a legionnaire, but a military air engineer. I'm not an expert, but the OAS seems to have included a number of Vichy loyalists. A number of OAS-related people later joined far-right organizations.
 * A related event was the "Algiers Putsch" or the Generals' Pusch, in which some senior military officers based in Algeria revolted against their legal civilian leadership and threatened a coup d'état. This included a number of Legion officers, some of which, like Hélie de Saint Marc, were formerly in the French Resistance. They were, however, unsuccessful. David.Monniaux 10:32, 19 Feb 2005 (UTC)


 * David, keep in mind many readers of Wikipedia will be people who saw or read something on a topic from an unreliable source, & then turned to us to learn more. They start with vague statements, & hope to learn something definite. So please try not to bite the Newbies. ;-) -- llywrch 04:09, 10 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Hello all - As the Legion had been formed in Algeria in 1831 largely to keep unemployed Swiss mercenaries and other possible dissidents out of France proper, it was never intended to see the Legion stationed in France. However, the grave situation in the Franco-Prussian War of 1870-71 made it necessary for the Legion to be brought to France to fight the Germans. The next time the Legion would be stationed in France was during World War 1, where volunteer units were raised. Subsequently, France's most decorated regiment of the war was the famous RMLE of the Legion, heroes of the Western Front. Between the wars, the Legion was represented every Quattorze Juillet celebrations in Paris. In July 1939, Parisians were the first civilains to see the new style 'kepi-blanc'. In early WW2, the Legion raised volunteer units in France and a Legion reconnaisance unit, GRD97, took part in the Battle of France. In 1944-45, Legion units took part in the liberation of France and Western Europe. The hand-over of Algeria in 1962-67 saw a chnage of role for the Legion and a number of units were found bases in France.

The involvement of part of the Legion in the attempt to stage a coup d'etat in 1961 arose out of President De Gaulle's realisation that Algeria could not be held indefinitely by force and that it would have to be given independence. As a result, France's colonial troops based in Algeria would have to be re-organised, some disbanded and others relocated outside Algeria. Indigenous troops in the French army (such as Tirailleurs Algeriens) would be disbanded. Algeria had been the Legion's spiritual home since 1831 and in the bitter campaigns of the late 1950's and early 1960's, had fought hard to keep it in French hands. Having spilled much Legion blood, they felt by 1961 that they had won the war and would stay in Algeria. However, De Gaulle's bigger picture saw independence as the only possible way ahead. This made him very unpopular with pieds-noirs - white French families who had settled in Algeria since the 1830's. The OAS was a violent political resistance group which had large pied-noir support. Their protest chant was "Algerie Fran-caise !". Some Legion officers were sympathetic. In particular, the Legion's elite parachute regiment, 1er (B)REP, was heavily involved - many officers and men, and were part of a plot to take control of Algerian radio stations and key buildings. There was some support in their sister regiment, 2e REP. However, when the call came for the coup, 2e REP did not act. 1er BEP was on its own and the coup failed. The participants were tried in court and imprisoned and the 1er BEP was disbanded. Starting in 1962, France's indigenous colonial army was disbanded and its French content either disbanded or re-organised and re-named and stationed in France or remaining French possessions.

Though the 1er BEP had acted largely alone, De Gaulle now distrusted the Legion and intended to disband it entirely. This was highly unfortunate as, during the dark days of 1940-42, the small but loyal Free-French Brigade, called the Fighting French, which included the Legion's 13e DBLE, had kept alive France's and De Gaulle's honour and credibility, as an important part of the British 8th Army which defeated Rommel. Whilst some Legion regiments were disbanded in 1962-64 (such as 1er BEP, 4e REI, 2e REC, etc) the remaining units sought to become more relevant and indispensible in order to survive the cuts. Consequently, the fate of the Legion's regiments was:-

1er RE - left Sidi Bel Abbes 1967 - moved to Aubagne, France; 2e REI - left Algeria - moved to Corte and Bonifacio, Corsica; 3e REI - left Algeria - moved to Guyane to guard Ariane space project; 4e REI - disbanded 1964; 5e REI - re-organised as part Legion/part French Army-engineers regiment called 5e Regiment Mixte du Pacifique - based in Papeete, Muraroa Atoll, Tahiti; 1er REC - left Algeria - moved to Orange, France; 2e REC - disbanded 1962; 1er REP - disbanded 1962; the Paratroopers now are indeed called 2eme REP after being accursed to Corse But in the old days (1erREP) should be 1erBEB rest of the story is close to accurate. nicely done! Best regards An Legion Vet (Legio patria nostra) 2e REP - left Algeria - moved to Calvi, Corsica; 13e DBLE - left Algeria - moved to Djibouti; DLEC - small detachment based in Comore Islands, near Madagascar.

The last Legion unit finally left Algeria in 1967. This period marks the end of the old Legion and the start of the new-look Legion of specialists and fast-intervention forces, based across the World as well as Metropolitan France. The Legion were out of the public eye for a few years until the 2e REP burst into the news on 21 May 1978 with their epic air-drop and rescue of hostages around the airport, Kolwezi, Shaba Province, Zaire. Posted by Lachlan Gow - 26 October 2005

The Eurocorps-Foreign Legion concept and its Single European Regiment
The following URL is for those interested in the French Foreign Legion and its potential participation in the process of European Union defence integration in a NATO-EU(WEU) framework at the United Nations. This applies especially following the Strasbourg-Kehl NATO summit on 3-4th April 2009 when France rejoined its integrated command structure since French departure dating back to 1966: http://paginas.pavconhecimento.pt/pessoais/dw/Mario%5FZanatti and follow its debate on: http://cervens.net/legionbbs//showthread.php?t=34

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.172.0.62 (talk) 12:29, 12 May 2005 (UTC)

The Legion, The Germans, and Vietnam
I heard that after WWII many German soldiers joined the French Foreign Legion and, when the French was fighting in their war in Vietnam, the French switched from Legion troops, who were winning, to regular army troops because the French wouldn't support a war fought by former Natzis. This put the French on the losing side, forcing them to withdraw completely, leaving an opening the United States chose to fill. My only sourse for this is G. Gordon Liddy (from his radio show), so I don't know if it is true. If it is, maybe it is worth mentioning. -- Benjamin 10/6/05

Hello Benjamin - the Legion was very important to the French government's efforts to keep Indo-China in French hands. As the insurrection escalated, the French needed more and more troops. The troops available to fight were French regulars, Colonial troops (such as Algerian, Moroccan, Tunisian, Vietnamese) and the Legion. French conscripts were to be kept out of the conflict. As a result, Legion manpower needed to be increased sharply and they opened their doors to virtually all fit volunteers. Many Germans joined the Legion at this time, including ex-Waffen-SS soldiers. The Legion - including its German elements, was heavily involved in Indonchina/Vietnam from beginning to end, including the climactic battle of Dien Bien Phu (March to May 1954). Though the French held on after Dien Bien Phu and even had some success, it was the writing on the wall for French control of their colony and the French government had to come to a deal arrangement to split Indochina into (communist) North and (democratic) South Vietnam. The other former Indochinese colonies of Laos and Cambodia were already given independence by France. The Americans oversaw the transition and were eager to invest time and men in the new South Vietnam and as France moved out forever, the USA moved in.

The USA had been interested in SE Asia since the end of WW2 and had as its post-war goal the end of colonial rule by Western powers and establishing new national democratic governments - such as ending colonial British rule in India and Malaya, ending Dutch colonial rule in the East Indies and ending French colonial rule in Indo-China. The British already had its agenda for Indian independence, which was granted in 1947. The Dutch and French however, had no immediate plans for giving up their colonies and local guerrilla wars resulted, often communist-inspired. When the Chinese civil war ended in a communist victory in 1949, the climate in the whole region changed. The British delayed their plans for Malayan independence when a communist uprising started there too. Soon Korea was at war with itself. The USA developed its "Domino Theory", which expounded that if one country fell to communism, the next would follow, then the next until SE Asia was completely communist. America's leadership therefore saw it as necessary to combat communism wherever it was threatening the region. US forces went to Korea. British forces were already fighting communists in Malaya. Though the USA had previously put severe pressure on the Netherlands to leave the East Indies, this had occurred before the big communist upsurge. The new Indonesia, whilst not officially communist, had communist leanings and its government was soon inviting Russian advisors and engineers into the country to modernise it. The USA was excluded. Meanwhile, the USA saw France's efforts in Indochina as part of the greater anti-communist effort and was prepared to render aid to keep France fighting. The USA therefore was already investing both financially and with war materiel in French Indo-China long before the French left. When the French did leave in 1955, the USA stayed and developed its links with the new South Vietnamese rulers. They kept military advisors in the country, training montagnards, flew US Navy air observation missions etc right until an escalation of incidents in the early 1960's led to the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution and introduction of full US military operations in 1965 - the start of the Vietnam War.

As far as I am aware, the Legion's manpower needs were so great during the late 1940's early 1950's that it was happy to employ even ex-Waffen-SS troops, using the age-old change of identity method, while the French military and the French government were prepared to look the other way. As far as I know, German legionnaires were employed in Indochina until the Legion and the French moved out. France could not have done without the Legion at any stage as they were mainly infantry, whilst French regulars were paratroopers, armoured troops, artillery and engineers - France's infantry was conscript and was not used in the fighting.

regards - Lachlan Gow (26/10/05)

Why would the Germans need to change their identity...just simply say they weren't members of the SS?

69.216.97.240 01:41, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

I can explain that for you dear knowledge seeker! After the fall of the 2nd REICH the Germans felt there defeat, and saw what happend to the extremists afterwords. So they Saved their own asses SS or not SS that didn't matter at the end it was lost so no reason to die for anymore, but more reason to try survive as much as possible...as at that point Germans weren't the fav pets, people gladly helped out after what they did...So they acted like a real soldier would react: They joined another promising cause and if there is one thing you can say about the SS, is that they were scary motherfuckers, in those days for sure! I am convinced that the strict lifestyle of most legionnaires still has a lot to do with the after war in 1945 and the occupation and of course old habits that start to integrate in the ranks of most legionnaires, and start to be a part of their lifestyle! something you still experience in many ways. here few examples...Loads of ex SS songs are sung till the day of today!! Words are integrated in the sentences ex: Achtung or kamerad or if they drunk they say: je vais Steife ma geule. In your selection period you even have to pass The Gestapo and tell them every little detail from birth till intervieuw it's insane the feeling of intimidation that passes your body at that moment hehe looking back at all this just makes me miss it again  :'((Best time of ma life!!)  This are only few of the many habits that integrated in this exclusive club of nutcases that have a passion for war craft ;) cause if you decide to give everything up to start new, and you know how they work... you can not  be a normal person, otherwise you'd crack in no time, and believe you me bin there done that seen many crack mentally! To come out in tact you need few screws loose already in my eyes... (not in a bad way ofc!)Anyway a better training program still needs to be invented i think take the knowledge and know how to, or not to. is Deadly as no other cause you see the perspective of the to be used tactic from 156 different views and methods how to do your job in the best way there possibly is. For me this is crystal clear bounded knowledge find's a way in no matter how big the canal is! That's about it for now i guess i could go on for houres and houres but i think i cleared some stuff or atleast gave a fun read to know from the experience of a Veteran best regards

Brought to you by: Patrick Derere ( former legionnaire) 09:22, 7 December 2014 (UTC)

Where's the source for all of this? It's even like this in the main article, the book "Devil's Guard" is well known to be fiction. So why say somethine like "After the fall of the Third Reich, Germans, long a major presence in the legion, are believed to have accounted for roughly sixty percent of its manpower" and then introduce Devil's Guard? There's a page for "References in Pop Culture", no need to place it in the main article. And definitely don't use the book as a source. 58.111.251.137 (talk) 11:32, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

until the 1960´s, Germans in the FL make up a percentage of up to 60. if you take in account the people from alsace and lorraine, which were German citizens for quite a time, it is even more. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.154.195.115 (talk) 11:51, 19 September 2011 (UTC)

France never fought in Vietnam. That war happenend in Indochine. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 152.81.65.13 (talk) 13:13, 20 July 2012 (UTC)

Time to apply for citizenship
I removed the sentance in the first paragraph because:
 * 1) It's wrong. According to the Legion's web site you can apply after three years.
 * 2) The information is listed under the membership section.

Dubhdara 13:39, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

Legion in the literature
What, no word on P. Howard (Rejtő Jenő)? 195.70.32.136 16:30, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

incredibly editorial
dripping with compliments, which shouldn't be in any encyclopedia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.35.148.201 (talk) 04:32, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

review of French Foreign Legion article
French Foreign Legion is a professional mercenary fighting unit integrated into the main body of a French Army. Unlike other military units around Europe, it accepts various people ignoring race, religion, social origin or background of the recruits. Boasted for its discipline, fidelity and honor, French Foreign Legion, nonetheless, draws in many romantics and refugees. Generally, attracting volunteers from ‘problematic’ countries (Eastern Europe and Africa), the Legion consists of over a hundred nationalities. The multi-lingual Legion appeals to recruits with a paycheck of 975 Euros, a month (2005), an enormous sum by some standarts, and an opportunity for French citizenship.

The Wikipedia article about French Foreign legion is both brief and informative. The author starts with Legion’s history, discussing every major conflict that the French Foreign Legion participated in. Then the narrator switches to the composition, membership and current deployments of the Legion. Finally, the author lists the famous members of the Legion, and discusses the influence of the Legion on the popular culture. In general, the article provides basic encyclopedic information about the French Foreign Legion. The writer does not particularly persuade a reader with a specific viewpoint, rather relying on the second hand sources of factual information about the military unit.

It is clear that the author of the article has not been a participant of the Legion. The writer does make several strong and unsupported assumptions about the Legion. For example, he claims that desertion is a large problem in the legion. As contemporary sources suggest, desertion used to be a large problem in the Legion but it is significantly reduced today. Today, trainees entering the Legion’s service have a few opportunities to quit within the first year at the Legion. In addition, the author claims that the discipline in the Legion is “incredibly austere … far in excess of that of other contemporary units.” Nonetheless, the Legion’s official website and several other sources state that the training and the discipline of French Foreign Legion today is equivalent of any other French Army unit. Thirdly, in the “Membership” section that author states after WWII, sixty percent of French Foreign Legion was composed of German ex-combatant (even ex-SS) enlistees. That statement is not confirmed by primary sources. Indeed, this issue remains a very controversial topic, discussed by many military historians. Even though the author provides a second opinion (by journalist Bernard D. Fall), it is an overstatement to claim such high participation of German ex-POWs in French Foreign Legion without any references.

The primary account that is discussed in detail is the “History” section is the story of Capitaine Danjou [also referred to as the Battle of Cameron]. The participation of French Foreign Legion in WWI and WWII is summarized in a half of paragraph, which is much generalized considering there were books written about those events. The account of the partaking in warfare is not chronological. The author switches from Franco-Chinese War (1884-1885) to Battle of Dien Bien Phu (1954) in one sentence. To an inexperienced reader it could seem that Battle of Dien Bien Phu could have taken place during Franco-Chinese War.

The middle section of the article discuses composition and current deployments of the Legion. It is very informative and provides a place of every Legions’ unit deployment location.

The last part of the article talks about notable members of the Legion and influence of the Legion on popular culture. Interestingly enough, two out of twenty Legion’s celebrities are wanted Serbian/Croatian war criminals. Does the Legion really advertise that kind of publicity, with ten percent of famous members being wanted for genocide? In addition, the popular culture section seems somewhat out of place. It lists an appearance of Legionnaire cartoon characters and popular TV shows, creating an unusual contrast with a bloody French Legion history just a few paragraphs earlier.

The author did not list any primary sources. It appears that the author used second hand sources like books and popular articles. The only thing that reminds a bibliography is the list of external links that can lead the reader to either the official recruiting website or memoirs of ancien (retired legionnaire). Even though the length of external links consists of 16 web addresses, most of them provide only basic information about the Legion. It is somewhat disappointing because there are dozens of books and hundreds of articles on the subject. It seems that the author neglected to do in-depth research.

Overall, the author provides clear, concise, step-by-step organized information. It is good for basic information reference or to a person who is not familiar with French Foreign Legion. The article, however, is useless for people looking for detailed information. Consecutively, the preliminary reading of the article can provide convincing evidence. The further research into the subject, however, shows that the article is somewhat shallow and does not cover some very important aspects.

Several things can be done to improve this particular article. First of all, the article needs to be expanded and saturated with primary sources references (which there are plenty of). Second, the life and training of the legion sections need to be added. There are several interesting books on the subject and readers would be interested to find out about the unusual daily life and training of the Legionnaire. Moreover, the Popular Culture section needs to be significantly reduced. The encyclopedia does not need to have a reference to the Decembrists’ song or fictional Japanese anime character. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Aradel417 (talk • contribs)


 * Thanks for the comments. When commenting on Wikipedia articles, it is inappropriate to speak of "the narrator", "the author". Almost every article eventually has several editors, each of whom may have made only a small contribution.
 * We thank you for pointing out that several poorly-supported or heavily-biased statements were in the article, and in due time such errors may be corrected if they have not been already. Certainly any article will have some errors, and in this case some of them are errors that Wikipedia cites from verifiable sources, but Wikipedia editors can never be certain that those sources are indeed correct. Wikipedia editors are increasingly concerned with using good sources, and with giving readers direct references to them, but no editor is refused, and many times we make do with what is available. Thus your bringing specific errors to the table (and contrasting or improved sources) is always appreciated.
 * As for the popular culture section, that exists because Wikipedia, as an encyclopedia, acts as a cross-reference between various topics. There are many popular culture references to the Legion that may have articles and it is always appropriate to note them in the primary article, even if it seems to have little direct importance to the topic. That said, much of that section is overly detailed. --Dhartung | Talk 20:45, 23 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Wouldn't it be more that most articles will have one editor, the popular articles having multiple competing editors? Although if you increase your timeline enough, then yes every article has multiple editors, but then you run into other issues. Like Wikipedia ceasing to exist, for example. 58.111.251.137 (talk) 11:05, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

Members of the legion
Members of the Foreign legion are NOT, in theses days french citizens. Those who join are mainly from eastern europe and the former soviet countrys. Because these people see the legion, as a opportunity for a new life, instead of that life they lived in these countrys. 194.239.172.157 (talk) 10:27, 12 April 2006 (UTC)
 * French citizens may be Officers in the legion. 4.230.66.229 (talk) 15:59, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

That isn't true at all, You can join up as a French citizen, you just have to change your name and your nationality to a Francophone country like Belgium or a French Province. 70.106.247.101 17:56, 29 May 2006 (UTC)Mankind716


 * You are complete and utterly wrong. The members of the FFL are openly homophobic just like every other fighting force on the planet. Consider the fact that the legion generally will not allow people to enlist unless they're not in any serious relationships and officially do not allow marriage until after the initial 5 year term (and then only with written permission). Also consider the Legion used to run a thoroughly heterosexual bordello in South America until recently. They hand out (normal/non-anal) condoms to troups stationed in Africa because the troops are notorious for whoring in the region and the risk of aids is high. Now go troll elsewhere. -- 86.130.245.34 06:23, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Do you have verifiable proof of what you say? It sounds like a load of crap. Cat Balou 07:33, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
 * An even better point is how is that even related to the topic raised above? Nationality, not sexuality. The Legion does, so far as I know, require you to list yourself as single when joining, but that's not biased against any homosexual relationship, it's all inclusive of any gender preference. If you do your research, or even think about it for a moment, you'll find there's good reason the Legion tries to control marriages. 58.111.251.137 (talk) 11:11, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

Motto
Would not "homeland" be a better translation for Patria than nation? -- Carl Logan 11 may 2006

Would not "fatherland" be an even better translation? "Pater" being the Indo-European root meaning "father" and all. -- 69.216.97.240 01:41, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

The ancient motto of the Legion has always been "the Legion is our Fatherland" and that's how it actually translates. That being said the official modern Legion has changed the english version when speaking about it to homeland, what with the Nazi's and all. Colin 8 19:03, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

women
what's the story of the woman who joined up? kind of strange it's not mentioned here.
 * Why should it be? Women make military formations weak, that's a fact. Cat Balou 07:39, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

There's no evidence of that at all actually. Women would be, and are, just as competent as men when it comes to war. Tactical mobility or superiority is probably the most important aspect in an engagement; all women have to do is learn how to stand in formation, shoot here and there, and move forward (obviously with the added complications of modern warfare). Nothing impossible there, and certainly nothing that requires you being a specific gender.

The idea we shouldn't include something in an encyclopedia because of a personal POV is not what WP is about and your premise is faulty. Woman make a military formation weak eh?, and what about the Russians in the second world war, the Israeli's in every war they've fought, or the NVA or PLF. Or the woman who act in most western militaries now in any non combat role. Or the use of Woman as nurses and doctors going back to the Crimean War, And then of course are the myriad of ancient examples from the Amazon warriors to female Samurai to barbarian woman fighting in formation alongside men. Your personal views on the nature of men and woman and military structure have no place here.Colin 8 19:16, 11 May 2007 (UTC) Sorry UberCryxic for sandwitching my comment between your comment and your signature, it was an accident I don't know how to fix. Colin 8 19:22, 11 May 2007 (UTC) UberCryxic 18:13, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I have to disagree with you there. I've only just finished my stint and the combat fitness physical standards for females is less as opposed to males. I've seen men fail on fitness tests but their level of fitness surpassed the standard that the females had to do, and because of their "Failure" these men get notices asking for them to provide proof as to why they should remain in the army. We don't even do long marches with packs anymore, atleast nothing larger than 12.5 miles, even that. In the past 9.3 miles was the norm, with 25 miles or greater (40 to 60 miles) also conducted, fully kitted up. Now its 6.25 miles and 12.5 mile "pleasure walks", and only if we feel like it! An 18 year old male has to do a minimum of 50 push ups. A female of the same age does 35. In field exercises women were often sent to the rear area (usually the medical centre on base) to get a shower after a few days for "Hygene reasons". The men only had showers at the completion of the exercise. Equal opportunity gone mad. Cat Balou 10:07, 25 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Well you're not technically disagreeing with me, at least if you read my statement carefully. I said nothing about physical abilities; you did not really address what I said. My fundamental point was this: "Tactical mobility or superiority is probably the most important aspect in an engagement..." Tactical mobility is mostly not dependent upon physical strength. You can have a very well-trained and well-equipped women's unit versus a well-trained but poorly equipped men's unit; the latter would get raped in every case. There's a reason why those standards have dropped; warfare has changed. Napoleon's armies were the ones that had to march 30 miles a day (in those days, these differences might have made a difference, though it's unclear); modern armies cover that and more with tanks, APCs, and so on. All we have to do to get optimal combat performance from women is to simply train them in the tactical methods of the day. If they learn those, they'll be just as good as men.UberCryxic 18:16, 25 November 2006 (UTC)


 * I did answer your question, but you, being of the so-called "Progressive" mold, are not listening to reality. Let me ask you this question: Have you ever had to carry the pack of a female soldier in addition to your own because she couldn't carry it on a short 15km march? I think not. The problem is you've never served in the military, because if you did you'd know pretty well that not all terrain is conducive to the mounted/mechanized mobility that you talk about, and it is most likely in those kinds of places where you'll find the enemy. Take a look at Afghanistan for instance. Yeah, your "tactical mobility" really works in mountainous terrain doesn't it? Urban warfare is pretty gruelling too. You have to actually dismount off your APC and do some doorkicking, or jumping over walls, or going up and down stairs, not staying inside your vehicle and hope and pray the enemy would go away like PFC Lynch did. Out of curiosity what do you know about what you call "optimal combat performance"? Am I talking to an armchair general here or what? Don't pretend to be an expert on a subject you know nothing about. Combat-level fitness or Battle fitness counts inspite of what you want to believe. A high standard of fitness is essential because last time I knew, combat was still a very physical and exhaustive endeavour. Lowering standards on the excuse that "WE have the Technology..." has been proven time and again throughout history as the wrong way to do things. Oh, and another thing...Technology has changed. Warfare hasn't. If you sent your "well trained, well equiped women's unit" against my "well trained but poorly equiped mens unit" I will still win, and I'm not kidding. Let me provide a slightly modified example of the stupidity of your logic: If your kind of logic worked, then the Soviets would not have lost in Afghanistan. Sure the mujahadeen had the stinger missile, but other than that they were poorly equiped compared to the Soviet Army. You can believe in all the crap you want to believe, but don't pass of BS to someone who knows better than you.Cat Balou 11:01, 17 December 2006 (UTC)Cat Balou 10:41, 17 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Boy howdy is this ever OT. Does anyone have an actual answer to the anon's question?  Were there women in the French Foreign Legion, and if so what is the story on them? siafu 19:35, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I think there was a case of one female that was with the Legion in WW2 but in terms of being trained from the ground up as a legionaire I think not Cat Balou 10:07, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

I don't know what the anon is referring to. Officially, the French Foreign Legion does not permit women to join, perhaps the only unit in the French army that continues this policy.UberCryxic 19:43, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Yep, quite right, there are no women in the Legion per se. There are some female Sgts who are attached in clerical roles from the regular French army who are more or less seconded to the Legion. They do not join, nor do they go through basic training. The Legion did "adopt" Edith Piaf and she in return loved her Legionnaires (singing at least one song about them). There was a woman just after WWII whose name escapes me right now, who was unofficailly a "Legionnaire" (more or less an honorary rank due to her service at teh time)

There was a british documentary on British TV about the elite fighting force SAS and what it takes to join. They had some volunteers from different backgrounds that had to undergo a test of endurance similar to what they do in the SAS training. The tests were like a competition and were conducted by an high ranking x-member of the SAS. Some of the volunteers were women. The first few people to drop out of the ordeal were NOT women and in fact the women did quite well in all the whole thing. One of them did very well.

I won't comment on the pro's and con's of women in combat arms but to answer the question here, there are no women enlisted in the Legion at least prior to 1999 when I left. There was a woman as stated earlier but it was an irregular case from WW2 and most definitely not a conventional enlistment... There are however at least up until 1999 a group of women who were attached to the 2REP from the French Regular Army who repaired the parachutes at the 2nd REP. If they are still there I am not sure but they are not members of the Legion only detached to it. To my knowledge they are the only ones. The comment about the brothel at 3REI in South America is indeed true... it was on base, housed about a half dozen women, had a bar, a restaurant area to order burgers and watch tv as well... ;) Medic's pulled service there and did as stated earlier provide condoms to the guys... it was closed in 1996 roughly.Kurt Dundy (talk) 21:37, 7 January 2012 (UTC)

Mexico
The three soldiers did not surrender to the Mexicans, they were the only remaining Legionarres in the battle. When called on to surrender the Legionarres replied with "only if you agree to tend to our wounded and allow us to keep our arms". The Mexican Colonol said "To men like you, we can refuse nothing".

70.106.247.101 (talk) Mankind716 16:59, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

How do you get in the Legion?
I mean like the selection process. Physical fitness, mental ability, training...

Those sort of things. The article doesn't have much info on those.

im kinda curious. Jak722 07:48, 28 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Be really fit and have a long preparation. On Le Raid you'll be marching 150km in 3 days. Get used to running distances with load, hike long distances with heavy loads and the like. Cat Balou 07:37, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

You have to travel to France to begin with. There are (or used to be) sixteen induction centres scattered across the country. A lot of people join at Fort du Nogent in Paris but it's better to go directly to the HQ Regiment in Aubagne (near Marseille) as you won't waste up to 3 weeks in Paris waiting enough other potential recruits to justify putting you on the train South. You don't have to be fit to join but it obviously helps. Why people showed up out of shape knowing it was the Legion and that the training was likely to be physically tough is beyond me. At Aubagne you are put through a standard battery of tests for both physical and mental aptitude before shipping out to basic training. The induction period in Aubagne takes about 3 weeks and basic training is for four months. If you aren't in shape when you begin basic training, you will be by the time you finish. When you arrive they will take all your belongings from you except money and cigarettes. If you are accepted you will never see your stuff again. If you are rejected, your personal kit is returned to you along with a train ticket to the city where you first went into the recruitment centre. In other words, if you approached the induction centre in Strasbourg, you'll be given a ticket back there.

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Kinjite (talk • contribs) 08:40, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

Yes, you should be fit, but... Le Raid takes 5 days or 1 week, I don't remember. Rather boring than tough, it's all in your mind, don't think too much. When it comes to Legion, when it's time to think, do it, but more often you have to ignore your thoughts and just do your job... like in every army, I think. Preparation? Run a lot, do pushups, situps, pullups, prepare for marches (but I think that marches are more difficult for a brain than the legs). Maybe doing some IQ tests worth a while because most of the candidates fail in this part of selection and psychological tests.

There is one important thing, though. Your fitness level is actually just for your comfort and good scores in Castelnaudary which are important later. In Aubagne there is one physical test (running) and 90% of candidates pass it. If you run twice a week you'll pass it easily. They search one type of personality. Well balanced, emotionless, disciplined. A person who OBEYS the orders. They need people who are able to overcome suffering, fear, anger, worry, remorse, love, hatred and all the other feelings which aren't important in your way to achieve your goal. And your goal is to execute the order. They don't need people who want to kill. They need those who hate it but will do it on order. This kind of attitude will develop over long time but they search for those who will develop it without too much effort. They will break you emotionally and physically and then rebuild you. But when they start to do it there's no turning back because it's after selection. Of course, sometimes they make mistakes during evaluation and there are people who starts to lose their minds during Farm and they throw them out but normally when you pass the selection you're in the Legion and it's too late to change your mind. That's why your fitness level isn't that important. You don't need to be fit to forget about your hunger, pain and fatigue. And everyone will feel it. I ran marathons, can swim 5 km, marched a lot in mountains and I felt it. New equipment, less food, less sleep, more work, no contact with the family, and freezing weather... You can't prepare for it. Just don't mind. It's not important. The reward will come and it's not just the money or nationality. It's also good, professional advanced training if you show you're worth it.

Diabel (I'm not a user, I hope I don't break any "wikirules") —Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.40.34.249 (talk) 05:52, 14 March 2011 (UTC)

Colonialism
I'm a little disturbed by the language in the introduction to the French Foreign Legion page. Namely, the following sentence: "the painful dismantlement of French colonial empire and finally, the loss of its fatherland: Algeria." Not only does this seem apologetic to the horrors of European colonization in Africa, but it also seems to indicate that decolonization was "painful." This is unacceptable. The colonial project, whether undertaken by Belgium, England, Spain, or France, was a brutal and merciless enterprise used to fuel the fledgling capitalist economy. Along side of the "Belgian" Congo, French Algeria was a site known for its own brand of brutality toward the colonized (the cutting off of a hand of the child of a "lazy" slave was not uncommon). Just because we're discussing the history of a European nation here does not mean we can ignore the sickening past of colonization, let alone express sympathy for its demise.
 * It took two wars with tens of thousands of death for the french colonial empire to disapear and thousand of refuges from Algeria (the pied-noirs). If that isn't painful I don't know what is, it was painful for all parties. Especially if you compare with the british decolonization. If you think some other line is better feel free to make a suggestion. Carl Logan 20:49, 16 September 2006 (UTC)


 * I would agree with Carl Logan. French colonialism was often brutal and exploitative but its ending in Algeria arose through a war of appalling atrocity on both sides. See Alastair Horne's "A Savage War of Peace" for details. Tragically the history of post-indepence Algeria has continued the same pattern - from the massacres of pro-French Muslims in 1962 to the civil war of the past decade. The cutting off of hands is a new one - certainly this brand of cruelty characterised King Leopold's Congo Free State in the 1890s but I have never heard of the French tolerating it in Algeria. Incidentally they abolished slavery there.Buistr (talk) 04:32, 2 September 2017 (UTC)

Lt Kata —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.148.76.39 (talk) 03:26, 16 January 2008 (UTC)
 * How people with No knowledge talk of things they don't know...Contrarily to all other Colonies Algeria was a French department (9A) and part integrand of France..I am born There in 1951 and saw as child the Algerian war...Muslim were cutting hands and other things to children and adults during the war...If it is true that certain colon have abused some workers in farm it was a small percentage of them...I grow up with a Fatma Zouina which took care of me like her own son...The majority of Algerian people were happy to be part of France...The minority which were against the Frenchs are responsible for the war and massacre of Muslim pro French with an horrible effect after the Independence 100 000 Harkis Veterans were executed by the Islamics...They want the independence but invaded France...Please check your facts before to write ineptitude about things concerning Algeria

It is incorrect to say that they were talking with No Knowledge. The comments above about Colonialism were very apt and accurate. Your other comments were good, though. I find that much of the writing in the discusion areas of Wiki are better and more truthful than the main article itself. Carl Logan made some very good points at the beginning of this piece on Colonialism. As a side note - It is freightening now after all the antiwar films that colonial-like warfare, such as Iraq, is attracting many recuits on the basis of thrill and adventure and nothing to do with what's right and what is a just fight.


 * Right and just fight? Since when. :P The U.S.A. does have a legitimate reason for being in Afghanistan/Iraq, which would be 9/11. Britain too, although I forget the date they had suicide bombers attack. So you could say that is a right and just fight, no? But it's decried everywhere as being "about the oil", about lording it over weaker countries, etc. Very unpatriotic U.S.A.'ians are. But a "right and just" fight doesn't really exist now. Not for very long anyway. 58.111.251.137 (talk) 11:20, 8 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Just to mention how the Europeans came to Northern-Africa in the first place (with colonialism there as a later result): Barbary States-- 178.115.170.201 (talk) 09:20, 9 April 2011 (UTC)

13 DBLE
The statement about the vichy french 6rei soldiers joining the 13th dble after the 6th defeat by the 13th dble is wrong, having spoken to the few survivors, general De Barre, who commanded the vichy french forces, of the 100 odd survivors of the 6th, 2 door ways were set up for the prisonners, one marked free french the other marked vichy french, only 4 legionnaires passed through the doorway maked free french??? the 6th REG, the inheriters of the 6threi was disbanneded after the first war in the gulf when it became known to the french governmnent that they were inheritors of a vichy french regiment. please refer to the 6 REG book, la legion en marche, for clarification of the details.

195.137.94.207 (talk) 11:25, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

Pictures
What's with the childish paintings as "pictures" in this article? it looks bad. 89.0.166.35 03:39, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

No doubt some fair use crusaders decided they were a better option then real paintings. Bigbrisco 15:34, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

Uniforms
The leather "butcher's" apron and axe which they wield in the July 14th parade deserve some explanation. Any takers ? 89.224.198.53 12:48, 14 July 2007 (UTC)


 * My understanding is that it is only the Legion's equivalent of pioneers [] who have the apron and axe. I imagine these would be because of their involvement in construction tasks traditionally involving cutting wood and carrying stone. A leather apron would protect the clothing much like a stonemason's apron ( the predecessor of the freemason's apron ). But I've got no references on hand to back this up. --203.59.33.111 14:57, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

What about the berets worn the opposite way from other units, the cockade on the left instead on the right? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.101.62.251 (talk) 14:15, 16 November 2008 (UTC)


 * On a Legion history site, which I currently cannot seem to locate in my favourites, it said they had the axe for cutting through barricades. And because of their bravery are the only Legionnaires allowed facial hair. No idea how much fact there is to that, but it would make sense. 58.111.251.137 (talk) 11:22, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

Confirmed this is the case: Legion's equivalent of pioneers Kurt Dundy (talk) 21:43, 7 January 2012 (UTC)

Pop Culture
There currently isn't a list of Pop Culture references. But if others see fit to start one, I'd suggest an enchanting song by the Decemberists called "The Legionnaire's Lament." This is Track 8 on "Castaways and Cutouts." Iamdeadfish 16:18, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
 * There is an entire article about popular culture references: French Foreign Legion in popular culture were the Decemberists song is included. Carl Logan 18:08, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

Podcast as a reference?
This probably sounds incredibly stupid, but I've recently used information from George Hageman's Military History Podcast to add to the Battle of Camarón. Is a podcast a legitimate source? Hageman, from what I've gathered, uses accredited sources for his work. The Last Melon 23:46, 7 May 2007 (UTC)


 * You'll have more luck keeping your modifications in the article if you use the sources he used. It's like using an encyclopaedia rather than a magazine article which sites the encyclopaedia. 58.111.251.137 (talk) 11:24, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

Nationality
are the legionnaire french citizens or not? Paris By Night 20:30, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

No. They have the right to apply for French citizenship after completing 3 years of service (used to be five). Some do, most don't.

Previous answer wrong. Any French citizen can apply ( "service sous identité déclarée") and if accepted after recruitement tests gets an ID from any country where French is an official language (Swiss, Canada, etc. 32 countries in the world have French as an official language) French is the mandatory language in the Légion étrangère. And this "corps d'armée" ("army corps") serves under French flagship. And most "do" apply for French citizenship. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.71.67.83 (talk) 13:03, 24 July 2010 (UTC)

Dubious Information
Violence in the legion is not common as a means of training as this article appears to suggest. The main reason for desertion is the toughness of the training regime. Many recruits see the Legion as a means of escape and join without really knowing what they are letting themselves in for. Other factors such as theft, very long days with only six hours sleep and being unable to contact family for the first two months are more likely to result in desertion. --Alastair Swift 11:59, 17 July 2007 (UTC)Alastair Swift 17 July 2007.

Legion is an elite Force...If you want to join it you must accept your training and all which is part of a Legionnaire duties and traditions...I got no respect for any deserter for any excuse what so ever...When they sign they know what they are signing...There is enough informations of the French Foreign Legion every where you can't want wear the uniform and have the reputation of our "Anciens" if you cannot handle the good and the bad of The Legion...In the Legion you are pushed to the maximum of your possibilities and it is where the selection start... Many of deserter are people whom have betray the code of the Legion by doing reprehensible acts outside or inside the Legion and deserting is the easy way... LT Kata —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.148.76.39 (talk) 03:45, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Algerian Battalion
The Spaniard Carlists about 1836 raised a unit made up for the most part of defectors from the French Legion.It was known as the Algerian Battalion. It took part in the so-called "Royal Expedition" and at least once, at the battle of Barbastro in Aragon, put the French Legion to flight. This warlike Carlist unit suffered heavy losses.It was disbanded in 1838. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.142.175.22 (talk) 10:08, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

French language
I'm assuming you have to speak French but if not, then how are orders issued? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.32.249.82 (talk) 07:59, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

The NCO's will demonstrate, and basically you can see what all the french guys are doing and copy them. The FFL pride themselves on the fact that they do everything in big powerful groups, so I'm guessing that most of the time even if you can't speak french, there's someone there who does and can try to demonstrate and help the others out.203.51.167.251 (talk) 07:27, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

There are french lessons for those who joins —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.2.91.63 (talk) 21:24, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

See "Nationality". French is mandatory in the French Légion Etrangère. They have a very efficient way of teaching by creating small groups (2 or 3) "linguistically lead" by a French native speaker who's in charge of teaching the basics (and advanced) French to new recruits. There are courses too. But you must be ready to accept speaking French, which seems quite normal. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.71.67.83 (talk) 13:16, 24 July 2010 (UTC)

Desmond Hayes-Lynge scandal
There is reference to this in the 'recruitment' section. I can find vague mentions on google of a musician under this name, but nothing more. This section really needs to be expanded if any information exists about this person/scandal. R-T-C (talk) 08:19, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

correction to Mexico section
Corrected this;

"attacked and besieged by two thousand members of the Mexican Army,[3] organized in three battalions of infantry and cavalry, numbering 1,200 and 800 respectively."

Obviously that should read 'two battalions' and now does. —Preceding unsigned comment added by PowerSam (talk • contribs) 03:30, 21 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Detailed accounts of Camerone refer to three battalions of Mexican infantry numbering 1,200 men (see Douglas Porch and Martin Windrow). This is in addition to the 800 cavalry who encountered the Legion detachment first. Why "obviously"? - a battalion in any army in the middle of battle can vary in numbers and there is no reason to think that the Mexican forces of 1863 had particularly rigid establishment numbers for each unit. 210.246.20.41 (talk) 07:52, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

MP5
The article says Mp5 under equipment last I checked the Legion used the FAMAS. Did they switch or is someone making a joke? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wikired5 (talk • contribs) 01:59, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

The FAMAS is the main weapon of the Legion. They do of course use other weapons, and the MP5 may be one of them, but FAMAS is main. 58.111.251.137 (talk) 11:27, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

Further Details
In response to some of the above questions and assertions.

1) Can French citizens join the Legion? OF COURSE they can! And they do! When they enroll, they're given the option to "lie" about their true citizenship. My uncle, who's French, enlisted under a phony name and a phony address in Switzerland. Actually, he never set foot in Switzerland!

2) Do you have to speak French to join? NO. Although most those who enlist do have a decent level of proficiency in French. Officers (who are mostly all French citizens) teach the newcomers the basics of French in a few days. Since French is the language which is used in their daily life, after a few months of camaraderie, all legionnaires become rather fluent.

3) Of those who retire from the Legion, how many accept the French citizenship deal? Hard to say, there's no data. But among my uncle's buddies, about 25% did.

4) How long is the average career in the Legion? A large number of guys leave after 5-7 years. Many remain for much longer. My uncle served 21 years.

5) On life after the Legion: you're all set. The Legionnaires are extremely respected in France. Those who served a career in the Legion will be given a good training and a good job after they leave. The government provides a hefty pension as well as possible means of funding to start a new life (e.g. to buy a car or a house). The network of former Legionnaires is dense and well coordinated. It provides help and support to veterans in all kinds of forms (some rather unexpected ones. For example, veterans are granted the right to fly aboard military airplanes to travel. They thus fly for free -- although the schedule is not up to them and they may land on a military basis in the middle of nowhere!). Finally, in the city of Aubagne (outside of Marseille), there is a beautiful estate when veterans can spend the rest of their life. They're totally taken care of and dispose of small individual apartments.

6) The perception of the Legion abroad? Highly respected and envied in the entire world, except in the US. Bitter about being incapable to provide such a fine structure for its own average Joe veterans, the US will constantly denigrate everything French, especially the Legion, and brainwash its citizens into believing that the French legion is made of untrained brainless criminals, etc... Truth is, the US would die to have such an elite corp as the Foreign Legion. Such a structure as the Foreign Legion could have prevented the US losing the Viet Name war, the Iraq war, and the Afghan war. To be noted: "tough" US soldiers famous for throwing puppies off of cliffs and bombing herds of sheep on-the-go tend to be very quiet when confronted to a French Legionnaire. This only adds to the general bitterness and dissing.

NB: American citizens are well-known for being incapable of learning even the most elementary basics of foreign languages (including High English as spoken in the UK). For this reason, many US citizens are automatically disqualified to partake in the French Foreign Legion. Their natural lack of courage and ingenuity is also widely believed to contribute to this phenomenon.

" Tiens, voilà du boudin, voilà du boudin ! Pour les Alsaciens, les Suisses et les Lorrains. Voilà du boudin ! Pour les Amerloques il n'y en a plus, ce sont des tir-au-cul ! " —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.57.14.131 (talk) 17:02, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

You, Sir, are a fine example of the exact thing you seem to be disdainful about in your rant against American soldiers. And just as a side note--I am French, from Strasbourg to be exact, and live in the US. My students are extremely good at learning languages. Oh, and by the way, have you ever stepped foot in America? You should try it, you'd discover what a week of work really means. Parlez pour vous cher anonyme, sans implquer vos concitoyens, et sans essayer de faire passer votre haine pour des pseudo-véritees soit-disant bien connues.128.148.22.197 (talk)Anne-Caroline Sieffert  —Preceding undated comment added 21:11, 3 May 2011 (UTC).

Whatever people think about the Americans should this discussion page really be used as a platform to air views which border on racism? (I'm not American by the way...) 77.96.231.238 (talk) 09:11, 13 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Although I can't speak for every individual, as a former U.S. Marine Offer I can say that as a whole we have a great deal of respect for the French Foreign Legion, the British Royal Marines and any elite professional warfighting force regardless of national origin. Sure, Marines are a cocky bunch and will talk a lot of crap in social environments, but on the job the majority of us are professional warfighters and see a connection to others who have the same calling; a calling that transcends nations and historical eras.  As for bombing herds and lacking courage and ingenuity... I don't know what bunch of louts you ran into under the American flag, but they were certainly not the outstanding pack of devil dogs that I had the honor and privelege of leading.  Yes, there have been atrocities committed by Marines.  But, that is also true of the French Foreign Legion and every military in existence and that has ever existed.  That's not an excuse, just a fact.  However, when members of an American military service get involved in an atrocity, the court of international public opinion seems to forget about what has been committed by their own and other neighboring militaries and start throwing more stones then are due (yes, stones should be thrown... but *not* just at Americans).  In my time in the USMC I participated in several joint operations with multiple foreign militaries, elite and common.  And I can say about all of them, including the U.S. Marines, that every service contains some of the best and brightest humanity has to offer and some of the laziest, most vagrant and stupid, as well.  Enoch326 (talk) 18:44, 6 September 2008 (UTC)


 * To the "original contributor": I can tell what I think as an ex-legionnaire.
 * 4) How long is the average career in the Legion? Sorry, but what you say isn't true. Most of people don't finish 1st contract. In 2REP, I think that about 70% desert during first 3 years of service. I think that the main reason is a strict discipline (believe me, you probably won't see it in another armies). Examples: you can't buy a laptop (but I heard it changed in 2007, but not sure), you can't go to the city except for Calvi, where you must wear a uniform, actually during 3-5 months between the leaves legionnaries have nothing of the civilian live. But there are also some who desert few weeks or months after coming to the regiment. They thought it would be easier after instruction but they chose a wrong regiment.
 * 5) "The Legionnaires are extremely respected in France". Totally true... "Extremely" is a good word. People are scared of legionnaires. You can feel it everywhere. Men are scared, women are scared. You try to show with your behavior "I'm just a regular, nice guy. In my work I'm a machine, but here I'm a human being". You can't hide you're a legionnaire: foreign accent, 1mm cut on your head, fit body but not overgrown. That's funny in the beginning but it causes a lot of problems also.
 * 6) You present your personal point of view as a French. Americans aren't disqualified. They just don't come. If I was an American I would go to US Army. The Foreign Legion is a well trained professional force but some units in USA are much better. That's why they don't even come. There is one funny thing though: I met a lot of legionnaires who served in "western armies" and they all say that the food in French Army is extraordinary! Some things seem strange to me at the beggining like: "Why this steak is bleeding???" but I have to admit that french cuisine is fabulous. Every day you eat well. Go to any french restaurant and choose good full course meal (entree, main course, salad, dessert and cheese) and that's what legionnaires eat on a daily basis :) And really didn't pay attention to food before the Legion.
 * Diabel 77.115.128.171 (talk) 13:54, 14 March 2011 (UTC)

As a prior serving member of the Legion I can't say I ever remember anyone being on an anti american rant as that listed above... I think you are way off base there. I don't think the desertion rate is as high as that listed above... of the 36 I joined with I think we lost 5 during basic training, 1 or 2 died during their first 5 years I believe, a few more deserted but I'd say of the original 36 day one probably 15 to 20 finished the 5 years... at which point I can't say for sure how many left but there seemed to be a predisposition for the eastern european guys to stay on after 5 years for the citizenship. When I left at 5 you got a carte sejour and had to sign on for a minimum of 1 year more for a total of 6 to have your nationality paperwork completed... though that appears to have changed with the 3 years service comment above.Kurt Dundy (talk) 21:58, 7 January 2012 (UTC)

Korporaal1 (talk) 20:30, 20 July 2008 (UTC) The KNIL -Royal Netherlands Indian Army- never was a Foreign Legion analogue. It did have some foreigners under arms, but the recruitment and comissioning concept behind that was very different from the LE idea. The foreigners in the KNIL were all British or HEIC enlisted men and officers. When the Netherlands regained control over the East Indies, some British and former HEIC Army units there came under Dutch control. The habit of enlisting and comissioning British military men with experience in India persisted. The KNIL certainly wasn't open to all who wanted to join. Therefore I think that the reference to the KNIL as a Foreign Legion for the Dutch East Indies should be removed.

In regards to the above mentioned KNIL piece of the article, it is very superfluous. The paragraph even mentions that the KNIL army was not an emulation, making it's placement under 'Emulation' curious at best. I removed it on this basis.80.100.35.4 (talk) 09:17, 11 April 2013 (UTC)

Dischnesche Elizhcnsihe —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.19.62.101 (talk) 02:42, 25 December 2008 (UTC)

Where was the French Foreign Legion headquartered?
The article says that the FFL was founded in Algeria and that Algeria was its home for 130 years. I understand Algeria is quite a large place. Can someone please be a bit more specific about its starting place or HQ? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Gmackematix (talk • contribs) 01:45, 19 October 2008 (UTC)


 * In Sidi-bel-Abès —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.58.144.199 (talk) 16:03, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

The HQ of the French Foreign Legion are in Aubagne, a little town near Marseille. The Foreign Legion is not in Algeria since 1962. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Pelomar (talk • contribs) 05:36, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

Years required to serve in the Legion
How many years a Legionnaire is required to serve in a minimum? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kyuzoaoi (talk • contribs) 16:13, 13 March 2009 (UTC) The minimum is five years. ronin13 ronin13talk 18:52, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

I deleted a picture
It was blocking the table of contents and as I do not know how to move it I deleted it. ronin13 ronin13talk 18:52, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

I need to pick someones brain...
Please, i s there anyone out there to give me any details or information on the french foreign legion? DeeBirdie (talk) 23:18, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

Dubious content
In a search for info on the Legion, I found this wikipedia entry. However as soon as I started reading, it seemed that some dubious editing has been done.

e.g. in the first line: "The French Foreign Legion (French: Légion étrangère) is a unique unit of strapping gay harry men in the French Army, established in 1831. The legion was specifically created as a result of violent sodomey with foreign volunteers, to be commanded by French officers;"

Also further down, a photo

What's going on here?

Thx Craig

124.148.82.128 (talk) 01:51, 26 February 2010 (UTC) Craig what you saw was an idiot who had edited and changed the words. The Legionnaires are not sex deviate, they are soldiers. Nobody who has committed sex crime is taken by the Legion. The Legion got her own way to punish people caught in sex affairs. I can tell you that if this guy was in my hands he will have a bad time. His comments are insults toward the institution. May be he deserves to be sodomised as it seams that this person is a dreamer, a liar, may have an obsession with homosexuality. Any legionnaire who will read that will be very upset and will try to found who is this person and if they got him it will be a very bad day for him. Lt Kata

Beard
We probably need a blurb about some of the sappers wearing a beard. David.Monniaux (talk) 10:49, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

Moslems in the ffl can wear beards, after training and military regulation and all that is. 194.192.22.33 (talk) 08:40, 19 March 2010 (UTC)

I think you mean muslims..and NO, muslims aren't alowed to wear beards. noone is. Not even the cololens in each regiment come to work without the daily shave. The beards that you see are for traditional parades. The selected legionaires that take part in each ceremonie get a pass to not shave daily, like the rest of the legion, and take time to grow the beards. After the ceremonie it's back to normal. 78.97.165.83 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 14:12, 14 November 2011 (UTC).

joining the legion
pls how do i join the legion am a nigerian but presently live in cambodia i have a dream of being an army,how can i join the legion thanks —Preceding unsigned comment added by 118.103.176.10 (talk) 11:26, 12 October 2009 (UTC)


 * You could start by learing English or French. Then you could read this article. Then go to the official website.

Unbelievably, it actually tells you how to join, —Preceding unsigned comment added by 139.168.119.84 (talk) 11:43, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

Link in need of repair
The link under one of the pictures for "chapeau chinois" leads to the page for conical asian hat —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.105.250.205 (talk) 17:58, 4 July 2010 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with File:Beau Geste 1939 film poster.jpg
The image File:Beau Geste 1939 film poster.jpg is used in this article under a claim of fair use, but it does not have an adequate explanation for why it meets the requirements for such images when used here. In particular, for each page the image is used on, it must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page. Please check


 * That there is a non-free use rationale on the image's description page for the use in this article.
 * That this article is linked to from the image description page.

This is an automated notice by FairuseBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Media copyright questions. --00:56, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

Joining the French Foreign Legion
Hi all, I'm 17 years old and I would like to join the French Foreign Legion. Some time ago, there was something really bad that hapenned to me and I decided to restart my life in the French Foreign Legion. Unfortunatelly, the Legion requeres appliants to be at least 18 years old to fill the recruitment form by themselves, and if appliants are under 18 (such as my case), they require parental consent. Yet, I would not like my parents to know that I'm leaving to the French Foreign Legion, but I would like to join while I'm 17, not waiting untill I'm 18. So, is there any way for me to join the FFL while I'm 17 years old without a parental consent? It's very important to me. I would appreciate a quick answer. Thank you.

Tequilla355 (talk) 13:14, 2 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Hello Tequilla355, Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not an official site, nor a forum. See the official site of the legion for recruitment informations or see legionnaires' forum, there will probably be somebody eager to answer to your question.UltimaRatio (talk) 13:57, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

FFL contribution to WWII
This article says that the FFL played "a smaller role", while the FFL History article says that the FFL "was heavily involved in World War II, playing a large role in the Middle East and the North African campaign". Both versions are not sourced. Altough I don't a have a source that states that the FFL played a "significant" role in WWII. The use of the word "significant" seemed a good compromise to me between the FFL and FFL history articles. And it seemed to better match the reality than "a smaller role" (smaller compared to what???) .UltimaRatio (talk) 11:06, 19 May 2011 (UTC)
 * I think it depends on your point of view. It was a big war with many millions of men in uniform, and the Legion is and was -- relatively speaking -- pretty small in numbers. So, from that standpoint, and considering the war as a whole, they didn't have much of a role. However, from the standpoint of the Legion itself, it was totally involved in the war. It could hadrly be otherwise. Although, early on, part of the legion supported the Vichy (i.e., German puppet) government while another part of it was alligned with the Free French forces. Does that make more sense? -- Michael K Smith Talk 14:25, 20 December 2011 (UTC)

Lower-case Legion?
I notice that editor PaulinSaudi is going through the article changing "Legion" to "legion". I am no expert on grammar but is this correct? Isn't "the Legion" in this context a proper noun? That is to say the name of a specific military unit - even if in translated and shortened form. If we were talking about (say) Roman legions then the lower-case use of the letter would certainly be correct. I do notice that "the Legion" is the useage in every published source that I have access to. Buistr (talk) 18:47, 22 June 2011 (UTC)
 * You are right. The capitalization seems to be the rule as it is used on the Legion official website here and on the French article here.
 * I will revert it and let him know.
 * Thank you for pointing that out! Best regards. Mouloud47 (talk) 19:34, 22 June 2011 (UTC)


 * I understand that members of the Foreign Legion like to capitalize it. In the same way, (American) marines capitalize 'marine.' The US Air Force capitalizes AIr Force when it applies to the USAF. Now the US Army is attempting to convince us the word 'soldier' requires a capitalization. While at some point common usage might require a change to our grammar, we are not yet at that point. I direct you to the Wiki Manual of Style, which does not call for capitalization in these case. It is a minor thing, but I hope you will forgive me my tiny obsession. In any case, I hope you will not revert without a cite that using the standard forms of English is not called for. Paul, in Saudi (talk) 08:04, 23 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Hello again, and thank you for being willing to contribute to the article French Foreign Legion.
 * However, even if I do not know if the members of that unit "like to capitalize it", I do know that the capitalization of the word "Legion" is the broad usage since it is very often under this name that the unit is referred to. It seems sensible to me that when you use the name of a specific institution, the word needs capitalization.
 * I disagree with you over the interpretation of the guidelines MOS:CAPS as it states clearly:


 * And it seems, indeed, accepted as a proper noun, and here, the normal English usage and the common usage seem to be the capitalization of the word. We can see it in this article of The Telegraph, in this article of the Guardian, in this article of The Washington Post, in this article of Le Monde, in this article of Le nouvel Observateur, in this article of USA Today,....
 * And we can also see it is the common usage in a great amount of articles on Wikipedia, such as the German article, the Greek article, or the Spanish article...
 * Moreover, it is equally the rule and the common usage in numerous articles on the English Wikipedia referring to this unit, such as Lang Son Campaign, Outpost in Morocco, or Siege of Tuyen Quang,...
 * Also, I would like to warn you about the fact that a discussion was opened in the talk page. Hence, I strongly advise you to establish a consensus in the talk page, as recommended by the guidelines, on that controversial issue if you really think that you have a valuable reason (and ideally, reliable sources to support what you claim) to change the capitalization.
 * Feel free to leave a message on my talk page if you have any further questions or remarks. Best regards. Mouloud47 (talk) 14:26, 23 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Gosh, I am surprised to get in a revert war over this of all things. Let's move the discussion to the talk page and allow some neutral third party to step in. (I hate to think I might have to go back and re-do all those corrections if the discussion goes my way, but so be it.) Paul, in Saudi (talk) 16:59, 23 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Ok, I just want to point out that I am not a vandal and I will not throw myself into an edit war. But your proposition sounds reasonable since we clearly don't agree on this. I will move the discussion to the talk page. Best regards. Mouloud47 (talk) 17:17, 23 June 2011 (UTC)


 * I fear we (Mauloud and I) disagree on this. We need the help of other editors to settle this issue.
 * Many military units in the world use capital letters. (The US Army capitalizes "Army" the USAF capitalizes "Air Force," the US Marines use a capital letter for Marine. Here (at least some of the time) the article uses an upper-case "L" for legion. They do this because it is cool-looking, but in truth it is not correct. (I refer to the 18 April 1945 letter to the editor of The Times by Field Marshall Archibal Wavell on this very point.)
 * At the very least, the article ought to be consistent. We ought to use upper- or lower-case "L" in the word in every instance. Better yet, the article ought to written in standard English.
 * The Wikipedia Manual of Style and every other style guide is clear on this. "Tenth Legion," "Spanish Legion" and even "Legionnaire Jones" are all capitalized, while "legion" is not.
 * Just because it looks good is no reason to do it. Grammar is a means of organizing thought for clarity; it ought not to be abused without good reason. Paul, in Saudi (talk) 17:13, 23 June 2011 (UTC)

Where legion is used as a type of unit (whether French, Roman or whatever) it is lower-case and where Legion is used as an abbreviation of the proper name of the unit it should be capitalized. For example, if you're using paras as an abbreviation of paratroopers it's lower case and if using Paras as an abbreviation of the name Parachute Regiment it should be upper case. Radj397 (talk) 21:36, 4 February 2012 (UTC)
 * If you can show me a cite for this, I would appreciate it very much. Certainly many newspapers do this, but we all can agree newspapers use a funny sort of English. Kindly take a look at the Wiki Manual of Style. I feel I am fighting the flood on this, but gosh darn it, I am following the rules as I understand them. Paul, in Saudi (talk) 10:49, 5 February 2012 (UTC)
 * I see that this issue has been resolved after discussion on this and other pages. Congratulations to Mouloud47 and PaulinSaudi on the calm, courteous and rational tone of these exchanges. If only all Wikitalk was up to this standard! Buistr (talk) 01:57, 26 July 2012 (UTC)

American English or British English?
Which variant of the language are we using here? It seem we have a foot on each side of the Atlantic. Paul, in Saudi (talk) 09:59, 27 June 2011 (UTC)

Germans
The FFL is made up from different nationalitys, and it is the MAIN characteristic of this unit. The contribution of Germans is not mentioned anywhere in the article, despite them beeing the main "provider" of soldiers. The FFL is therefore an even bigger part for the German nation as for the French. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.154.195.115 (talk) 09:55, 20 September 2011 (UTC)

Legio Irus Actica
I notice that the motto "Legio Irus Actica" was added in this edit, but is this just a bit of vandalism that has gone unnoticed for almost two years? It's not mentioned in the French Wikipedia article, or on the FFL website, or anywhere else that hasn't obviously been copied from Wikipedia. It also doesn't mean "the Legion is Our Strength", or anything else for that matter. I thought it could be mangled somehow, like "irus" should be "virtus", but I doubt it. But I don't know anything about the Foreign Legion so maybe I'm overlooking something. Adam Bishop (talk) 07:30, 2 October 2011 (UTC)


 * I've removed it now. Adam Bishop (talk) 12:51, 15 November 2011 (UTC)

Training and Culture Development of the FFL
I was researching another subject some years ago when I ran across a discussion of the Legion in its earliest stages. One interesting tidbit I gleaned was that when the Legion was being formed, a small number of army officers & technocrats journeyed to the USA to study the USMC. It seems that the Espirit de Coup fostered in the USMC, was just what the FFL needed. Training and breaking down the recruit was paramount to building up into what is a soldier who does not question orders. The USMC gathered in its formation from the Hash-assassins & their "singleness of Purpose,” water-ladling and other disciplines. The focus on the Commandant and the Corps as the soldiers' Nation, as in a Roman Legion of old. This helped allow for executive fiat.

If anyone can supply more on this aspect of the FFL, I would welcome it greatly. I am new to this and hope someone can at least contact me if not ready to enter into this subject:  guatmark@yahoo.com

I was researching another subject some years ago when I ran across a discussion of the Legion in its earliest stages. One interesting tidbit I gleaned was that when the Legion was being formed, a small number of army officers & technocrats journeyed to the USA to study the USMC. It seems that the Espirit de Coup fostered in the USMC, was just what the FFL needed. Training and breaking down the recruit was paramount to building up into what is a soldier who does not question orders. The USMC gathered in its formation from the Hash-assassins & their "singleness of Purpose,” water-ladling and other disciplines. The focus on the Commandant and the Corps as the soldiers' Nation, as in a Roman Legion of old. This helped allow for executive fiat.

If anyone can supply more on this aspect of the FFL, I would welcome it greatly. I am new to this and hope someone can at least contact me if not ready to enter into this subject:  guatmark@yahoo.com

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Nbase41 (talk • contribs) 22:16, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

Article Introduction
".....exclusively created for foreign nationals willing to serve in the French Armed Forces. Commanded by French officers, it is also open to French citizens,.... "

Isn't this a contradiction? It is unofficially open to French nationals providing they give a false foreign nationality and name. So this should be explained.Radj397 (talk) 21:04, 4 February 2012 (UTC)


 * Not really a contradiction, although the wording could be clearer. The original FFL, raised in 1831, was meant to have non-French rank and file only. The modern legion recruits from French as well as foreign volunteers. Buistr (talk) 03:11, 4 March 2012 (UTC)

Wrong Word?
In the section "Post-Colonial Africa", the article says "many officers and men were arrested or deserted to escape persecution". Should that not read "prosecution", rather than "persecution"? I am going to make the change, as I assume that is what they mean, that is criminal charges rather than systematic discrimination and threats of harm. But, if I am wrong, and someone was persecuting foreign legionnaires, please change it back. 76.111.27.52 (talk) 17:53, 2 August 2012 (UTC)

Missing table about composition by nationality
There was a table on the article about composition by nationality. in thousand of individuals from the beginning of the Legion up to today. If i remember Germans were the most numerous followed by other nationalities. Where is that table ? 95.76.62.29 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 18:01, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

Confusion about promotion
Below the table of Soldats du rang (Ordinary Legionnaires), it says "No further promotions are given on attaining the rank of Caporal Chef" If true, then where do the next level of non-coms (Sous-Officiers - Non-commissioned Officers) come from?? Where do they get their Sergents, if you can't be promoted past Caporal Chef ?

Since this is not logical, I assume the wording is misleading?

21:12, 29 November 2012 (UTC) Ian Cargill 30 November 2012 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Icargill (talk • contribs) 21:12, 29 November 2012 (UTC)

Promotions goes from Caporal to Sergent; Caporal-Chefs are non-promotable to NCO ranks. Vesterrog (talk) 14:07, 1 April 2015 (UTC)

Copyvio on the Legionnaire's code of honor
It should not come as a great surprise that a creed can be found to be exactly matching to other recitations of that creed on the web. Similar creeds from the U.S armed forces are quoted verbatim on Wikipedia; the same should apply to this. Kenneaal (talk) 14:27, 29 March 2015 (UTC)
 * I don't know whether the Code d'honneur du Légionnaire is protected by copyright or not; France is unaccountably missing from our page on Official text copyrights. The English translation is more likely to be copyrighted. In any case, there is no possible reason for including either the code or the words of the marching song in this article. Wikisource is probably the place for them if it can be established that they are correctly licenced. Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 16:58, 7 April 2015 (UTC)

French section titles
Please remove all the French section titles. This is the English Wikipedia, we do not want, or need, French translations of section titles at all, let alone putting them first, with the English titles coming afterwards in brackets. Thanks - Arjayay (talk) 14:52, 5 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Yes please revert your dozens of section title and illustration size changes User:OJOM. This is verging on vandalism. No doubt you mean well but the edits are ruining the appearance and layout of the article. A lot of tidying up will be necessary, including grammar, style and spelling corrections. Buistr (talk) 20:27, 5 August 2015 (UTC)

Article overlong?
Thanks to Buistr for correcting the titles, and some trimming, and I have shrunk some of the oversized images. However, the article is far too long, with a total file size (text + images) of 413kb, and cannot be downloaded/read on some mobile devices,. From 26 June to 6 August, it grew from 97,181 to 143,182 (over 47%) almost 50%. I am sure User:OJOM means well, but an article that is so long that some people cannot download it, and is too long to comfortably read, by those that can download it, will have very few readers. The readable prose size is 63 kB (10457 words) (although this ignores all the tables, quotations and bullet points, so the actual text is considerably longer) and this exceeds the 50kB suggested atArticle size. As many sections already have main articles, some information in those main articles could be trimmed, without it being lost from the encyclopedia, whilst the long sections on Tradidions, insignia and ranks could be come another sub-article. IMHO the marching songs section seems trivia, and there is excessive use of YouTube as a reference, some of which appear to be copy-vios. - Arjayay (talk) 10:09, 7 August 2015 (UTC)
 * I would support Arjayay's recommendations. As military articles go, this is a high profile topic and inevitably it verges on the unwieldy. The creation or expansion of properly linked sub-articles will ease pressure all around.Buistr (talk) 00:27, 9 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Agreed: all the suggestions above are very practical for reducing the excessive article length. I would also say that the "Emulation by other countries" section could be reduced to a single paragraph with its subsections reduced to wikilinks: they don't need to be described so fully here. SteveStrummer (talk) 05:37, 9 August 2015 (UTC)

French "Legionnaire's Code of Honour" without translation?
For English-speaking Wikipedia I assume that the only language that the reader is required to speak is English. If this is the case, the untranslated "Legionnaire's Code of Honour" is next to useless. Should it not be translated? I don't think that it's necessary to even include the French original - many, many other Wikipedia pages are about subjects from regions where English isn't the primary language and they don't provide the original in the text unless it's particularly notable to do so. 86.0.32.216 (talk) 18:01, 26 November 2015 (UTC)

Shit article - needs to be broken up into separate articles
The narrative is poor, the structure is awful and it's an image farm. Basically, short of a fart (banality of triviality), anything that has ever happened in the French Foreign Legion is given its own section.

Interestingly the editor named OJOM, who seems to have the editorial expertise of someone with OCD (ie re-editing and then editing the same sentences over and over and over again) has never once engaged on this article's talk page. Something that speaks volumes about their character and motivations. And what mess they have made of this article.

First improvements - in a nutshell - would be to put the history, it's current operational structure and possibly ranks and insignia into their own stand alone articles. At least that would make the article more accessible because an overview could be left here.

This article needs to be edited by people who can write narrative in a concise and structure manner.

It's unbearable trying to read this current article because it's like trying to wade through a house of obsessive hoarder. Clutter every where. Plain and simple.

86.140.79.155 (talk) 15:13, 14 July 2017 (UTC)

This doesn't parse.
"entering in December 1960 and the revolt the generals, a crisis hit the legion putting its faith at the corps of the Army."

I'd correct it if I knew what it was trying to say, but I don't.75.169.144.201 (talk) 00:46, 27 December 2018 (UTC)

Marseille connection
Current headquarters, garrison quartier Vienot of Aubagne is in France, just outside Marseille.
 * I thought Marseille had always been the legion city. Valetude (talk) 20:14, 30 January 2019 (UTC)


 * Not really - until 1962 it was Sidi Bel Abbès in Algeria. However Fort Saint-Jean (Marseille) was historically the clearing stage for Legion recruits embarking for North Africa. Buistr (talk) 22:10, 30 January 2019 (UTC)

Date contradictions
This article says the FFL was founded on March 10, but Origins of the French Foreign Legion has the text of the decree, issued March 9. However, in neither article is the date cited, so what's the deal? Thanks. — howcheng  {chat} 04:31, 8 March 2020 (UTC)


 * According to the source reference added to the main text the royal ordinance creating the Foreign Legion was voted on by the Chamber of Deputies on 9 March 1831 and then, with one amendment, put before King Louis-Phililippe for approval and final signature on the following day. The actual formation of the new corps accordingly dates from 10 March 1831. Buistr (talk) 10:25, 8 March 2020 (UTC)