Talk:Frock coat

Military Frock Coats
I am not an authority on military uniforms - is the modern military frock coat exclusively British? We should link army and navy to something, but I am not sure which articles.

I will try to find some better PD illustrations of frock coats.

PKM 02:05, 30 July 2005 (UTC)

No, I've seen WWII period German Wehrmacht uniforms based on frock coats (Gehrock).

I am leaving the military bits to others however

Sator —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sator (talk • contribs) 10:55, 13 October 2008 (UTC)


 * edit

For a while now I have been reading and enjoying your various posts Sator. I have an image, which I would add myself but I can't imagine I'll ever figure out how to do this and I'm concerned about messing up the aesthetic balance of the article.

http://i42.tinypic.com/r22h04.jpg

It doesn't show the whole garment but it illustrates the distinctive silk fronting. A possible caption is "The Prince of Wales, Royal Colonel of the Welsh Guards, in Frock Coat. Dating from the 1830s this garment is worn only by Officers holding particular appointments, such as Regimental Adjutants, Commanding Officers or Royal Colonels."

Another possible image source would be my contribution to a thread on the Ask Andy forum: http://www.askandyaboutclothes.com/forum/showthread.php?p=990323

As well as: http://www.flickr.com/photos/stevenimmons/3465905446/

- Digby Snaffles

Seam
Does waist seam refer to a seam around the waist, or down to the waist?

Waht on earth is "optimal waist suppression"? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.45.150.59 (talk • contribs) 21:47, 12 May 2008


 * The waist seam runs around the waist, and waist suppression describes how the diameter of the coat at the waist relates to its chest diameter; to make a more conical shape, you need to cut the fabric more, adding a seam and side panels.—Kan8eDie (talk) 03:43, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

Comments from recent edit
I think the readability issue is real one. It raises an interesting issue - they need to have a basic style orientation as well as a technically in depth analysis from a cutter/tailor and dress historian's view.

I will probably add a pattern for a frock coat soon and move all of the technical stuff into that section. That will make the main sections much more readable while permitting readings to go into depth if they wish.

Sator —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sator (talk • contribs) 10:58, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

The article is very good if already know precisely what a frock coat is: the article is well researched, and the facts are all there. Unfortunately, even the first few sentences of the leader are totally arcane to most readers. I have tried to expand it a bit, and neaten up the history. In particular, this paragraph is useless even to me. I have removed it until someone can at least give translations of the words, and explain the significance of the translations. If you look up say, physics, you don't expect to be told what "physics" is in several languages. Some explanation is needed.
 * Linguistically, the term frock coat itself derives from the Middle English froke, from the Old French froc, from the Old High German hroc. The French and Italian word for a frock coat is redingote, and the German is Gehrock, or a Bratenrock.

Also, I wonder about this sentence: "Patent leather pump shoes were worn up until the Edwardian era with morning dress, a practice today reserved strictly for evening formalwear"; now, I am most surprised to find that patent pumps were daywear (certainly patent boots though). I will Sator's word for it if he is sure though.

Again, one more ambiguous sentence is "Another rare feature was the use of decorative braiding around the sleeve cuffs and lapel edges." Do you mean that the braiding was rare then or now?

Anyway, I love the article, which is full of information; it only has a couple of ragged edges to sort out.—Kan8eDie (talk) 04:29, 23 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the help correcting this, Sator. What is there is virtually perfectly finished.—Kan8eDie (talk) 14:31, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

Pictures of Obama's purported frock coat?
While there's no reason to disbelieve reports of Obama wearing a frock coat, every picture I can find of the ceremony has his clothing covered by a closed overcoat. Are there any images of the modern frock coats? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.60.166.192 (talk) 03:13, 26 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Frock coats are not uncommon on wedding. See for instance http://www.suitopia.com/en/wedding/ for a store that sells them as wedding dress. Looking at http://www.denisenadinedesign.com/Frock%20Coats.htm about halfway down the page is a comparison betweek modern and 19th century frock coats. // Liftarn (talk) 08:40, 24 March 2013 (UTC)

women wearing frock coats?
I have heard the things that Queen Elizabeth II commonly wears called "frock coats" as well. My British friend tells me that a coat with a matching shift underneat is also called "frock coat." — Preceding unsigned comment added by Skysong263 (talk • contribs) 13:42, 22 April 2016 (UTC)

Merge from "Redingote"
The former article named Redingote, previously nominated to merge with this article without objection, has now been merged here. Or rather split, with men's section here and women's section into riding habit (the latter which still needs improvement). This wasn't all too easy to assess. Although it could be argued that two different articles could be motivated, at least in its ultimate state the merge article seemed rather poor, and had remained so for a substantial time. As "frock coat" and "redingot" has been applied as synonyms on more than one occation in different languages, this also supported the merge. Anyway, arguments are welcome, as is improvement. Chicbyaccident (talk) 02:06, 16 November 2018 (UTC)

Lloyd George and Churchill
Are we sure that this famous photo is really from 1907?

My recollection is that it is of Lloyd George going to present one of his budgets. He was promoted to Chancellor of the Exchequer, and Churchill entered the Cabinet (President of the Board of Trade) in 1908. So more likely it is 1908-9, Churchill's reforming period. He was reshuffled to the Home Office early in 1910, I think.Paulturtle (talk) 19:47, 7 May 2019 (UTC)

Frocks and BrassHats
We'd need a source, but during the later stages of WW1, when British civil-military relations had become extremely strained, the conflict was called a conflict between the "frocks" (politicians, derogatory abbreviation of "frock coats") and "brasshats" (generals). I think it was supposed to have been General Henry Wilson who came up with it.Paulturtle (talk) 19:50, 7 May 2019 (UTC)