Talk:Fuwa

Curse
Should this section really exist? It seems rather tenuous and unhelpful with no sources stating that this is a widespread rumour 82.69.49.153 (talk) 22:41, 19 June 2008 (UTC)


 * It was listed earlier with references in one of the earlier edits even before the flood happened. I think a number of people were offended, and deleted it. We did the sources of the number 8s at this old edit. However it may or may not be related to the dolls. There was also a discussion whether that section should be kept. Benjwong (talk) 01:33, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

Despite the appropriateness of putting this part into the article, the related description in the Mascot section should be deleted since the official website never states that the image of Beibei is inspired by the Chinese sturgeon.--Onlim (talk) 02:06, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
 * User 210.176.70.2 insisted it was a sturgeon on this edit.  We should move it back to match the official website description. Benjwong (talk) 02:39, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

As per the earlier Paranormal arbcom, because this is a verifiable superstition which forms part of the wider popular culture surrounding the Fuwa it has a place on Wikipedia. - perfectblue (talk) 13:48, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

The curse and internet section is nothing more than heresay and is not backed up in anyway by any concrete facts. Such superstitious rhetoric has been deleted and SHOULD NOT be returned to this article. Wikipedia does not spread rumors based on no evidence.--Venixer (talk) 10:25, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

Rumour, superstition or negative campaining are no neutral POV facts. Section removed. 145.116.1.211 (talk) 13:57, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I think you misunderstood the POV policy. It is not up to the editors to decide whether it is superstition or 100% truth. Wiki policy states that it presents all views with sources.  It has plenty of sources. Benjwong (talk) 21:15, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
 * These "curses" are not based in any evidence just rumors and nothing else. Wikipedia is for information not hearsay. Section deleted.

Furthermore, to illustrate the uneducated status of these "curses" they use the example that the mascot Jingjing represents the earthquake in Sichuan. Jingjing represents the element of Wood, not Earth, which is what the Tibetan Antelope mascot Yingying represents. As said before, this is inaccurate information and should NOT be presented in an article where people go to find facts. Wikipedia is for FACTS, not rumors! --Venixer (talk) 11:49, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
 * It is a FACT that the rumour exists. We have a Wikipedia article for the tooth fairy, even though she is a myth.  I don't think anybody is suggesting that the Beijing Olympics is somehow cursed - certainly I would change any Wikipedia article that suggested this.  Kransky (talk) 12:55, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

Facts: Although noting point (1), I think it should not be included in this article. It would perhaps be more fitting in a different article.145.116.1.211 (talk) 13:51, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
 * 1) It is mentioned by Reuters press.
 * 2) It is an interpretation of events.
 * 3) It conveyes more information about human psychology or about the current worldview of a particular group of people, than it does about the Fuwa.
 * There are at least 30 notable sources on the subject. Millions (if not billions) of people are already talking about it. By the time the newspapers printed it, it was already old news. Benjwong (talk) 21:28, 17 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Knowledge is not democratic, and Reuters is known for making things up, and this is absolutely a made up "curse". If you want to mention curses, then feel free to do so in another article or another Wiki, but Wikipedia is not for rumors. These "curses" are not founded by any evidence, and just because someone made it up and everyone's reading it doesn't make it legitimate knowledge. They got the information on the Fuwa wrong anyways linking the wrong attributes to the mascots, proving that they don't even know what the Fuwa were, when they were writing about them. I have removed them again and will continue to do so. This is not freedom of speech, this is about accuracy and facts, and the fact is the Fuwa are not responsible for any "curse". This is not tabloid journalism. --Venixer (talk) 23:15, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Wow I didn't know the earthquake was fake. Thanks for informing us that everything was made up.  Judging by your edit history, you must be new. Wikipedia will not tolerate censorship. If you don't like it, don't read it. THE FACT IS there are millions of people already talking about it. You are purposely ignoring this fact. Benjwong (talk) 03:42, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Then create a new article for the "Fuwa in popular culture" area where you can spill all the rhetoric you wish. Hearsay is not going to be permitted on the Fuwa article because simply they are not backed up. --Venixer (talk) 04:34, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
 * IT IS backed up. There are sources on it EVERYWHERE. Benjwong (talk) 06:15, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

Sources on the internet propose it as a theory. Comments contain 'considerable amounts of' people opposing this theory. I am considering to add the other side of the story, i.e. criticism on theory. As it stands now, it is very limited POV, not neutral yet, and we have obviously not reached concensus about the article so far.145.116.1.211 (talk) 07:54, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
 * The internet also proposed that people believe in Santa claus. Whether he is real or not, it does not matter.  Wikipedia is open to all theories. Criticism of the theory is better than deletion. Benjwong (talk) 16:28, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

Benjwong, if you are determined to keep the section on the Fuwa curse in this article, please expand it with more opinions/points-of-view to balance. If you want to keep the fish-death section in this article, please make clear how it relates to the Fuwa, other than, 'they are both related to the 2008 Olympics' (for example). I have narrowed down my objections so that the sections may find a place in this article after all, and I'm sure that if those points can be adressed this article can become both comprehensive and balanced.145.116.1.211 (talk) 15:23, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
 * The dead fish was a Chinese sturgeon species. Just as the mascot is also supposed to be a sturgeon. It is related.  That is why Beijing did not give bass or groupers as a gift.  I am removing the tag. It would be best if you and user Venixer expand on the other points of view. Wikipedia will accept notable sources in any language. Also you two are calling the theory fake.  So far I am not aware of any sources claiming the government's response.  They have not accepted or denied the curse theory. Benjwong (talk) 16:28, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

"Cultural analysis"
I suggest removal of this paragraph. It's full of original research which are totally pseudoscientific.
 * Support - This belongs in an article on Chinese Superstitions, if any, definitely not here given its original and pseudoscientific nature. Shiyang (talk) 04:39, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Oppose - We are reporting on superstitions that are in the common domain (not original research), and we are reporting this as a pseudoscientific concidence, not factl.  Please sign your comments  Kransky (talk) 08:28, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

Kransky - the SMH article is unfortunately wrong, the train accident was in zibo, quite a stretch from weifang, which itself is a stretch to be associated with "the" kite city in China. These popular superstitions have no basis in wikipedia except maybe in a supersititons article of its own. Shiyang (talk) 20:53, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

There was an arbcom a while back that stated explicitly that things such as myth legend and superstition most definitely do have a place on Wikipeida so long as they are quantified as being myths legends and superstitions.

Something that is verified as a superstition may be included even if the superstition itself is not born out by facts  and that the fact that something exists in popular culture (such as a belief in the curse existing) means that it can be included in Wikipedia.

perfectblue (talk) 13:44, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

Interpretations
Fú is better translated as blessing or good fortune rather than auspiciousness (JíXiáng), while Wá may also carry the meaning of dolls. It's perhaps worth mentioning that they represent fire, water, air, earth and forests as well.

I know the official site translates "北京欢迎你 (Běijīng huānyíng nǐ)" as "Welcome to Beijing", but a more accurate translation would be "Beijing welcomes you[!]" Plus, it's more cuter, keeping in with how cute the Friendlies are! Axistence 13:27, 12 November 2005 (UTC)

The fuwa are being introduced as "little friends" (小伙伴), so I think "children" is more accurate that "dolls", although they do look very cute and cuddly =D

I'm not sure if they really do represent the Five Elements of Chinese philosophy, 金木水火土 (metal, wood, water, fire, earth). It was mentioned in a news article that the Five Elements were part of the inspiration, but they don't appear in the official descriptions of the five mascots. -- ran (talk) 23:35, 12 November 2005 (UTC)

Can someone add the meaning of the characters in their names (贝, 晶, 欢, 迎, 妮)? Are they simply the "represented ideal" values? DenisMoskowitz 18:00, 16 November 2005 (UTC)

No, the five characters, when put together, sound like (but not entirely equivalent to) the phrase "Beijing Welcomes You". The five characters themselves are just "cute-looking" ones that were chosen to "feel" plausibly like the names of little kids. If you insist, the characters themselves mean "seashell", "radiant", "happy", "welcome", and "maid", but the meaning for the last one is completely obsolete and the character itself (妮) is used only for its phonetic value and its "female" radical nowadays, especially in names and such. So adding the meanings would be rather meaningless, if not misleading. -- ran (talk) 06:56, 22 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Thank you very much. DenisMoskowitz 00:49, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

The Official Mascot site takes a really long time to load. Can someone upload thier pictures to Wikipdeia? Wizrdwarts 00:02, 11 February 2006 (UTC)
 * I have just uploaded them. Someone experienced please verify if the fair use tag is appropriate. -- Felix Wan 02:06, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

They're adorable<3

Sixth Mascot
There is in fact a sixth mascot. 

Should it go here, or on the 2008 Summer Paralympics page?

Colargol

 * They look exactly like Colargol, or Barnaby bear. Hektor (talk) 19:41, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Friendlies Beibei.jpg
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Fair use rationale for Image:Friendlies Jingjing.jpg
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Fair use rationale for Image:Friendlies Nini.jpg
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Fair use rationale for Image:Friendlies Yingying.jpg
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Political References
This section was removed: "The Hong Kong Alliance in Support of Patriotic Democratic Movements in China group led by Szeto Wah have said the olympic slogan should be changed to "the same world, the same human rights, the same dream, vindication for the June 4 Tiananmen Square protest". And that the five Fuwa doll should represent democracy, freedom, human rights, the rule of law and peace. " Reason: The section does not seem relevant due to lack of notability. It was only a remark made during a campaign by one of the political parties in Hong Kong. The context of what was being said was simple rhetoric rather than an official statement or a serious request. It was a rather piece of obscure news that had little public support (though no one voiced their opposition either). On the other hand, if the Fuwas had actually caused offence and controversy, then the public reaction and remarks by the main political parties should be noted in this section. Clearly this was not the case, and it seems, at least to me, that whoever added this section did it with political bias in mind and not with the intent of contributing relevant information. 210.176.70.2 (talk) 02:27, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Are you implying the political reference of the dolls has less relevance than Sonic the Hedgehog video game? Benjwong (talk) 04:43, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Politics may have more significance, but certainly it has less relevance here. One should not confuse the two. Politics is not relevant to an article on the Fuwa. It is more relevant to articles about human rights and protests, and as such I have placed this information (which may be considered by some people to be important) on the Hong Kong Alliance in Support of Patriotic Democratic Movements in China page as well as the Tiananmen Square protests of 1989 page instead. It is obvious that the inclusion of this so called "political reference" in a page dedicated to Olympic mascots (and is mainly viewed by children) is politically motivated, and Wikipedia is no place for political propaganda. If the party were making comments about the waste of national resources to develop and market the Fuwa, then it would have been a serious point worth including here under "Criticisms". Moreover, I have not seen sections called "political reference" in Wikipedia, while "cultural reference is a common section, meant to reference interesting trivia, such as the Mario and Sonic game. At least the game passes the notability test far better than slogans by a minor political party. 210.176.70.2 (talk) 07:32, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I see your point. I removed it out of the group's page but left it in the protest page. It is not the political group's slogan. Is like the olympic slogan. Benjwong (talk) 22:59, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

Curse of the Fuwa
It is reasonable to include the "curse of the Fuwa", but on two conditions.
 * The phenomenon is described in terms of a coincidence that has been noted by commentators (not just the Internet community but elsewhere), rather than an "actual curse". I don't think anybody is seriously suggesting that the games are jinxed (and I request people unhappy with  the section's inclusions not to think this is the intention).
 * This piece of trivia is only fleetingly referred to in the article. The article on the 9/11 attacks does not go into great depth about the Wingdings coincidence.  Nor should trivia be a significant feature here.  Kransky (talk) 16:12, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I changed this section from "Curse of the Fuwa" to "Superstition" since that is afterall what it is, I mean what else would you call a curse? I made some corrections. Nini is not a kite, the bird, but a Swallow. Jingjing represents not the element of earth, but wood. Its clear whoever wrote the articles on the curse didn't even do their research on what the Fuwa represent, so I corrected these mistakes.--Venixer (talk) 00:48, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Before you complain that Nini is not a kite etc, please do your research. The animals were never properly presented to begin with. As Beijing screwed up the wu xing five elements from the start. There is no such thing as "air"??? Beijing screwed up its own Chinese culture and presented it on the international stage. Is embarrassing.  Benjwong (talk) 01:12, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Benjwong: I haven't noticed anybody finding the Fuwa as "embarrassing", although the inclusion of a Tibetan antelope has criticised as politicising the games (and children's toys). Venixer: I don't even think the issue deserves its own section; I would be happy if we just have "Trivia" with a dot point on the superstition issues. Kransky (talk) 01:31, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Ya make a trivia section for it, because it is not relevant to the true spirit of what the Fuwa represent.--Venixer (talk) 04:41, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
 * The Tibetan antelope is consistent with the PRC view contrary to all the western media complaining. What I was suggesting is research this one all the way through with sources.  But like Venixer said, we'll leave it alone, since it is representing the olympics. BTW trivia sections are discouraged under wiki guidelines btw. I renamed it to "incidents". Hopefully neutral enough. Benjwong (talk) 21:53, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

Now all we need is...
Fuwa porn! 195.197.240.134 (talk) 10:13, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

You want a citation?
Someone disputes the existance of the Fuwa in Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games. It says [citation needed]. How's THIS for a citation? Do other Wikis count? Fuwa dogman15 (talk) 20:02, 9 August 2008 (UTC)


 * No. See Verifiability. Tempshill (talk) 01:34, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

Not just one cartoon
I have noticed on Youtube that there is in fact two different cartoons and this site only refers to the one titled The Olympic Adventures of Fuwa, which has a Toy Story influence with a barbershop quartet styled theme tune where accord to this article, they sing out their names sequentially. Just want to point it out. Jay Pegg (talk) 06:35, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

Table
I really don't know how to edit tables, but the current composition of the table makes it hard to read. Would it be possible to slightly change it and fix this? Itzjustdrama (drama?) 18:55, 21 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Afterthought suggestion: Is it possible to convert the whole table to prose? Itzjustdrama (drama?) 19:00, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

Criticism
Would be nice to have some criticism of the Fuwa themselves instead of the one blurb about how China should improve its human rights record. There was a Wall Street Journal article where the artist, exasperated, threw up his hands at the micromanagement from Chinese officials and said "Christ, they just have to shoehorn a panda into this. Just great." (I'm paraphrasing of course.) Tempshill (talk) 01:34, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

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Fuwa and Keroro Gunsou
Did people on blogs noticed that the color scheme of the Fuwa are similar to those of Sgt. Keroro? The blogs alleged that the Fuwa were partially inspired by the Keroro Gunsou characters, and they claim it was copyright violation.

Though I took this with a grain of salt. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kyuzoaoi (talk • contribs) 14:29, 21 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Whatever happened to Keroro being a violator of the teenage turtles and Battletoads? You should look into that one first. Benjwong (talk) 06:29, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

Pedo-bear! 99.189.66.191 (talk) 01:22, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

CCTV Fuwa translations
Can you please translate "福娃五连环" into English 174.91.73.91 (talk) 14:12, 22 June 2013 (UTC)

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