Talk:Gardiner's sign list

Talk note 1
Cheeck out this interesting page I made on my home page:

User:Codex Sinaiticus/hiero

ፈቃደ (ውይይት) 18:08, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

Notes on hieroglyphs, etc
I created this article, so that I could get some hieroglyphic updates better, and of course, an individual learns other things along the way. (I sometimes correct spelling or wiki's or whatever, so I will leave the misspelling of "check" above to the next individual. But I do think some obvious misspellings on a talk page would we be a kind gesture, but there is a lot of misspellings out there on talk pages.)


 * I started today and noticed the "What links here" for the Gardner Sign List has references to the Jabiru and the Saddle-billed Stork. It took Years...... to understand Egyptian hieroglyphs, and actually you only get there if you also go to things like the Amarna letters and clay tablet cuneiform, and the Text corpus(The Rosetta Stone and text alignment(Part-of-speech tagging POS-tagging)(Greek)is how I got to Hieroglyphs).  The Epic of Gilgamesh is in Akkadian on 2-Column clay tablets.  I know, individuals, mostly guys?, males?, had the satisfaction of reading a Totally Existential story. (As well as their Job was to Re-Write it.)

The bottom line is that our lives on this earth are existential. And the discussion on the existential page is a little bit divorced from what existentialism really is. To be able to create, thru "Wikipedia" an article which explains, yourself, or... the world is quite an ability of existentialism.

In the Gilgamesh story, 11 or 12 chapters are summed up, when Gilgamesh, turns to take a 'bath in the pool' and his plant of "eternal" life (which was so hard to obtain}, is snatched by the evil snake, and the "gods" only laugh at him. They tell him: 'you are human; you're not supposed to live forever anyway.'   I noted on the Existential talk   Talk:Existentialism,  how all those famous and smart authors did not have access to cuneiform.  They were still living in that Uncivilized, backward world. I am pretty sure we still live in the Dark Ages, though we have a potential of coming out of it.  Our planet, and species may be in trouble, but we(humans) are at least aware of it.  We can't claim we don't know what is happening.

So the second bird is the Saddle-billed Stork. When I got to the bottom of the Gardner list page and realized how many pages linked to the List of Egypt-related topics, I was the one who was shocked.((I almost doubled the Egypt-related list, and somebody needs to divide it into a: List of Ancient Egypt-related topics)).(If I get bored, or have time I will do it on a sandbox page.) When I get back to the egyptian topics, I will check out the above reference.Thanx--Michael McAnnis,YumaArizona--172.163.85.133 00:35, 23 March 2006 (UTC)--((This didn't get tagged correctly. MMcAnnis))--Mmcannis 04:25, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

Translated German page
I started translating the german page with a free translator and I've fixed up almost nothing, but here it is: List_of_hieroglyphs/german-Gardiner-list-translated. The German page has the actual translations of the hieroglyphsics - something this page needs. Fresheneesz 04:08, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

Citation
"Gardiner's Sign List is a list of common Egyptian hieroglyphs compiled by Alan Gardiner. It is considered a standard reference in the study of Ancient Egypt ."

Wikipedia doesn't consider someone's homepage to be good source for much, and certainly not as a citation for the above statement. Find another.  ◄ ИΞШSΜΛЯΞ  ►  20:53, 24 August 2006 (UTC)


 * ?? What? (-along with next section!).. -Mmcannis 23:49, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Gardiner's History: on his Talk: page
I originally put all this biography on his Talk page: Talk:Alan Gardiner, since I found it here on his "Sign list page". {from the SonoranDesert of Arizona) -Mmcannis 23:49, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Organization
This needs to be organized by something, What do you think we should organize it by? Fresheneesz 00:29, 30 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Some reason why you started this article instead of using Gardiner's Sign List? Perhaps they should be merged? And renamed to List of Egyptian hieroglypyhs (and not Mayan or Hittite) 212.239.164.54 05:44, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

Full lists can be found at Help:WikiHiero syntax and Gardiner-Liste. Transcription should be added as well, of course. kwami 22:04, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

Merge
I don't think they should be merged, but I think that either the Gardiner list should have its actual list on the page, or this page can have the gardiner list on it. But I started this page to list all known hieroglyphs not just the ones on the gardiner list. Fresheneesz 03:33, 13 April 2006 (UTC)


 * I worked on the "Gardiner's Sign List" page as a preparation for entering hieroglyphic names into Wiki articles. I think it is too soon to merge the pages, as some developments are still being sorted out.


 * The category: Hieroglyphs needs to have more pages made or referenced. I originally wanted to put "SA" there, but the SA I am more interested in is the "SA" that refers to the word 'gnostic' in Greek, "to know", "to be cognizant of".  Cuneiform also has the same word, from the Amarna letters time period, in pre-Hebrew, Canaanite.


 * The "SA" hieroglyph I am referring to is an upside down "Flag-looking" glyph, above a seated man. It is also a god, with the symbol above his head, the god: " SA ", who can "see" the way ahead.  (He, she, it is cognizant, knows the way.)  He can be seen at the front of some Solar barges, showing the way.


 * So, I think some more development of individual Egyptian topics is needed, before a Merge. Another good example are the Scarab (Egyptian artefact)s artefacts.  It is a major hieroglyph, basically the Xeper, but is an artefact, often a Scarab (memorial) that was used to date, and memorialize. (An individual, a victory, an event, etc. The examples include the Thutmose III, 5-series Scarabs, which were reproduced like newspapers. Formerly the references to the Scarab, were only the beetle itself: Scarab beetle redirects to Dung beetle). The Egyptian hieroglyph was not just a linguistic item; it was a representation that linked to other parts of Egyptian ideology, (and still being understood, discovered, and re-understood).


 * "SA" is found, in the 3-stone series, on the Rosetta Stone series. The Greek texts of the stones, use the word "gnostic"  (gnorimon, I think. -- I just looked: in Uncials: ...., OPOS GNORIMON OI DIOTI, .....)-- MMcAnnis,YumaAZ--Mmcannis 23:42, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

Translation from german Gardiner's-list
In progress - List_of_hieroglyphs/german-Gardiner-list-translated from Gardiner-Liste

Enhanced list
Hieroglyphica: sign list - liste de signes - Zeichenliste (Publications Interuniversitaires de Recherches Egyptologiques Informatisees) by Nicolas Grimal, Jochen Hallof and Dirk van der Plas (ISBN 9039323496), partial content at URL: http://213.132.220.88/ccer/apps/hiero/hiero.html -- AnonMoos 08:30, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

A word of caution about the translations and any merger
The translations may be creating issues that should be avoided if possible. I have noted an issue with G16 in the article with the translations because it changes the gender of the subjects of the ideogram from female to male and it is not included among the list of deities or reptiles—only as a bird ideogram. This may be an original error, but that seems unlikely since the identification with Nekhbet is implied in the name of the ideogram, nbtỉ. These were The Two Ladies of the uraeus not two gentlemen as the translation indicates. Furthermore it seems likely that Gardiner, knowing enough about Ancient Egypt to assemble the list, would know that the ideogram indicated Wadjet and Nekhbet. If Gardner made the error in his description rather than it being the translator's error, the error calls the original list into question. If it is an error by the translator, there may be many more. I also see that some of the goddesses are called gods. Therefore, I would urge caution before any merger that might compound such errors, these are not likely to be the only errors in translation. Given these problems, the work needed to correct them, and the need to check for others, I think it would be safer to keep the articles separate, rather than to merge them. 83d40m 01:27, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

Vertical version of character missing?
Dear all, I miss the vertical version of, which is very frequently used. I know it's not in the original Gardiner list, but does anyone know how I can implement this character when using the Hieroglyphics template in Wikisyntax? How to obtain the vertical Y1-character? — N-true (talk) 16:25, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

C12 labeled Amun is wrong. It is Amen.
C12 labeled Amun is incorrect. The word that Sir Wallis Budge used is Amen. No where in Budge's Egyptian Hieroglyphic Dictionary does the word Amun show up at all. The word is clearly labeled Amen, not Amun. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Luckynumbers (talk • contribs) 10:22, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

Can somebody explain the expected symbol counts?
The sections show an expected number of symbols, e.g. "Group A consists of 55 symbols". For Group B, it says "Expected quantity: 7". But there are actually 57 (not 55) symbols shown in Group A, and 12 in Group B. I'm reluctant to edit those figures because I have no understanding of this topic, but they are so clearly wrong I can't help but think somebody is missing something obvious. (Perhaps it's me.)

So can somebody knowledgable please explain why it says (e.g.) 55 symbols when there are 57, or if it is a genuine error, fix it?

Thanks. -- Limeguin (talk) 09:56, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

Why has this page been split into sevral ones?
Why has this page been split into sevral ones? It is useless now when trying to find a specifc hieroglyph! In 2011, all PCs can open large web pages so there is no reason at all to split it into several ones. Suaven (talk) 18:27, 11 March 2011 (UTC)

Confusing mentions of "this wiki article" and other messiness in the subpages
Some of the subpages feature baffling references to "wiki article". To wit: Apart from that, the text tends to be messy, e.g. on List of hieroglyphs/Z: "indicates is has, that the prior sign an Ideogram as if it no feminine ending), can stand stand as an abundance stroke at empty places." This is borderline gibberish. Why is the text so messy overall? Were these pages inexpertly translated or copied from somewhere? There's no indication at all where is all the information coming from. (JudgeDeadd (talk) 08:30, 3 July 2013 (UTC))
 * List of hieroglyphs/A -- "Original Wiki English translation: sound sign for, only in "through" (jn)"
 * List of hieroglyphs/C -- "The use of alas is unclear in this document. While present in the original version of this wiki article, and therefore included, the origin and meaning are unknown." "Originally included in this wiki article, the following appears to be indecipherable..."
 * List of hieroglyphs/D -- "Original version of this wiki article stated "Phonetic for alas"". 
 * I did some digging in the article history, and it looks like the incoherent text in the subpages came from List of hieroglyphs/german-Gardiner-list-translated, an obscure subpage that was apparently created in 2006 as a translation of a German Wikipedia article—a resource for editors trying to beef up our coverage of hieroglyphs. But that type of page should have been deleted years ago. Ugh, I didn't realize there was such a mess here.


 * The incoherent text in the boxes really doesn't look helpful. Many hieroglyph lists have very short descriptions of what each sign depicts; I'd rather have nothing but that instead of long descriptions that make no sense. Maybe we should delete all that messy text and slap a proposed deletion tag on List of hieroglyphs/german-Gardiner-list-translated itself. If anyone feels like we need proper, detailed descriptions of each hieroglyph's functions, they can probably be found in Gardiner's books, or in Raymond O. Faulkner's Concise Egyptian Dictionary. A. Parrot (talk) 03:45, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

This page was split into its current awkward format of sub-pages back in 2010. This has happened without discussion, and it has annoyed me, and wasted my time, whenever I have tried to use it since. I suggest it is time to merge the subpages back into this one. --dab (𒁳) 17:29, 6 November 2016 (UTC)
 * dumped the list from the HieroWiki page. Our job is now to go through the list and properly annotate it based on the original publication. --dab (𒁳) 17:33, 6 November 2016 (UTC)

Since List of Egyptian hieroglyphs essentially duplicates Gardiner's list (with a few additions), I feel it is redundant to reproduce the entire list here. I would suggest this article should be about the publication history of the list etc., but it should not reproduce the actual list to avoid having to maintain the same list in two places. --dab (𒁳) 06:36, 28 November 2017 (UTC)