Talk:Georg Groddeck

NPOV
The tone of this article seems rather partisan and the facts seems dubious. He provided "Siegmund Freud" with the concept of the id? I'd like to see some support. -- Antaeus Feldspar 20:59, 26 January 2006 (UTC)


 * You have support below. Now please remove your ignorant remark!


 * Go read WP:NPA. There is no excuse for that kind of gratuitous insult. -- Antaeus Feldspar 01:30, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

It was not a gratuitious insult. You exposed your ignorance about Groddeck and I helped you out of your ignorance. Now it is time for you to remove your remark.


 * You may not know this, but in English it is very rude to call someone "ignorant". It is a very strong statement; it does not imply that a person does not know one specific thing, but that they are completely lacking in knowledge in vital subjects.  Even if you were not aware that this word makes such a strong statement, you have no good excuse for making it a command instead of a CIVIL request. -- Antaeus Feldspar 15:52, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

REPLY
I orgininally added this entry to the German wiki and posted it later also in the English one. The communication between Groddeck and Freud, which I know, is in German only. There is literature as: Psyche (Stuttg). 1983 Sep;37(9):769-804. Origin of the id: Freud, Groddeck, Nietzsche--Schopenhauer and E. von Hartmann(Article in German) Psyche (Stuttg). 1985 Feb;39(2):150-69. Freud, Groddeck and the history of the id (Article in German)

see also http://www.midtermpapers.com/view.php/Philosophy/3104.HTM

see also: A Glossary of Freudian Terminology at http://www.haverford.edu/psych/ddavis/p109g/fgloss.html:

"Id(das Es, lit. "the it") Freud borrowed this term from Georg Groddeck's (1923) The Book of the It. Groddeck defines it thus: I hold the view that man is animated by the Unknown, that there is within him an "Es," an "It," some wondrous force which directs both what he himself does, and what happens to him. The affirmation "I live" is only conditionally correct, it espresses only a small and superficial part of the fundamental principle, "Man is lived by the It." (Groddeck, 1923/1961, p. 11) The notion that we experience as other, as it rather than I, our own deepest sexual and aggressive motives -- and their linkage to memory images, to the flow of speech and action, and to the general tone of our personality -- is at the very center of Freud's psychology. His own best discussion of these matters is in the 1933 New Introductory lectures on Psychoanalysis, where Freud sums up the goal of therapy -- and indeed of all healthy personality development -- with the evocative epigram, "Where id was, there shall ego be" (Wo Es war, soll Ich werden, literally "Where it was, I shall come to be")."

When these sources are enough, pls give the article free again!

DIH7184 07:30, 8 May 2006 (UTC)


 * I add the following from The Meaning of Illness, Selected Psychoanalytic Writings New York International Universities Press, Inc., 1977. page 12, Freud's latter to Groddeck at Christmas 1922 "Do you remember, by the way, how early I accepted the It from you?" On page 14, Freud is quoted as writing to Groddeck "I do not, of course, recognise my civilized, bourgeois, demystified Id in your It. Yet you know that mine derived from yours."


 * Now can we please delete that ignorant comment and restore this article to normal?


 * Go read WP:NPA. There is no excuse for that kind of gratuitous insult.  And the article is still highly suspect in its claims and partisan in its language. -- Antaeus Feldspar 01:32, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Really, what exactly is still highly suspect?