Talk:Giorgi Latso

A note
I intend to improve my article by fixing a problems. I am aware that this article was previously nominated for a speedy deletion. Therefore, I have created a new shorter version of Bio, spending an hours in researching reliable sources such as references etc. I personally don't see anything promoting in a bio sections (however if there are I am willing to remove or rewrite it). I am trying to create an encyclopedic version, not an advertisement. I would rather get some motivation than get my very first article deleted. I understand Wikipedia is discovery by millions of editors and volunteers like me. I spend time and energy in this, I am asking you to volunteer and help me in creating a substantial article, by editing, polishing, rewriting sentences. I am an amateur musician, and my next articles are going to be also about some artists. I will do my best to improve my article in order to become encyclopedic. Thanks! Sausa11 (talk) 18:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

G11
Did my best to deflower the thing. I think a list of wards is de rigueur for this sort of creative professional and left those alone. Will leave it to another to determine status. Dloh cierekim  18:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

Not g11
I think the article is getting better. Much encyclopedic, good references. No need to be deleted! Rexmusic (talk) 19:18, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
 * I guess it was just easier to retag than trim. Dloh cierekim  21:05, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

Why I think this is spam
All the hallmarks of spamming with a commercial intent are there:
 * Extensive media, including much stuff which I have never seen with such IP rights (e.g. publicity shots, CD cover art, entire passages of live concerts) posted to commons
 * Apparent high level of editorial interest in this relatively obscure artist to have articles created across the various language wikipedias all at around November 2009 may suggest a concerted PR onslaught by friends and supporters of the artist notwithstanding differences in quality and sourcing issues.
 * the article seems to attract only the attention of single purpose accounts to work on this article
 * very obvious promotional tone of the piece, including an entire section about his being "an educator". Many artists give classes, and there is no proper definition as to what constitutes a "masterclass". -- Ohconfucius ¡digame! 07:23, 3 December 2010 (UTC)
 * OK, I have now reviewed some of the sources herein, and am now satisfied that notability is established. However, I would still take issue with the last citation, which is clearly a bio written by Latsabidze himself, and could be excluded on grounds of it being a source lacking in independence. -- Ohconfucius ¡digame! 15:48, 3 December 2010 (UTC)


 * Thank you Ohconfucius! Regards!Sausa11 (talk) 18:01, 3 December 2010 (UTC)

Please don't call this article Spam. Thank you Ohconfucius!
Here the answers to you points which unfortunately contradicts yours: Thanks for your time in reading this. Ragards! Sausa11 (talk) 16:33, 3 December 2010 (UTC)
 * As I said earlier, I am a new user in wikipedia and this is my very first article. I have never created the article before and I would very much appreciate if you would not call my article spam any more just simply because I am spending significant amount of time in this. There are some CD cover art and photographs of this pianist on wikimedia commons, bt this surely doesn't have to do with a quality of my article and different users who are contributing their time in improving and polishing in order to become it encyclopedic. I understand and have respect what you saying, but I also want to remind you that there are others too(wikipedia editors, and administrators)who think that my article is fine and they doen't call it spam. As you see I have removed all Media section as well as entire passages of live concerts . I am interested in creating an substantial encyclopedic article, not a spam as you call it. I intended to create articles about other musicians too. I would kindly ask you to respect my work  - I would be very thankful!
 * I think this artist deserves to get little more respect than you think. I am not sure why you call him "obscure" but I would oppose your opinion. I think in classical music, certainly in piano field there are very few remarkable young pianists. I don't know if you are familiar with classical music, but I am and I know what I am dealing with. In this regard I also would ask you to be more respectful to artist if you could. Moreover, for your future reference I would like to point out that he is neither my son, nor my neighbor or friend. I chose to write about him because I just recently attended his concert, was inspired and thought I would create an article. What was before with music43lover is not really my business, I wrote on his wall that I would create a shorter version than he had.
 * My article was created on December 2, 2010. Today is December 3rd. There are at list 4 different editors working on this what I see from the history page. Non of them belong to single purpose accounts. I have been communicating with them and they've been doing some edits. Anyone who sees this I am encouraging to refer to the history page here. This users are different, they surely DO NOT belong to single purpose accounts.
 * I am fine with removing educator section if you insist. No one objected or mentioned that before. I don't see anything promotional here. In fact, many concert pianists are busy with their concert appearances, but they don't really teach to much. It's important to point out that this guy is spending significant time in judging competitions and doing some masterclasses. Not many active pianists do that because of the lack of time.
 * As you see from my talk page, I have been communicating with at least 10 various users and asking them some help. I know I am new to this, but I guess everyone had this period of time in here. I am always open for any suggestions and advices. And again, If you see there any sentence or phrase suggesting "promotional tone" I will remove it, but certainly nominating my page for deletion was not very good choice.


 * As regards spam, see WP:SPAM and WP:NN. Anthony Appleyard (talk) 09:59, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

Artical removed from my workspace
I have removed the article from my workspace since it is no longer needed at that location. Music43lover (talk) 03:10, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Sorry - I meant to delete it from my workspace and made a fat-finger error. Music43lover (talk) 03:14, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

Quotations
I would like to ask you a question and I would appreciate if you could help me. According to some researches I have done I would like to add some quotations cited by some critics and published in some newspapers. Here is example what I would like to include in the article : He mesmerized concertgoers and critics, who have praised “Sheer poetry and art of the highest order” (Berliner Zeitung, Germany); “Today’s piano playing at its very best” (Salzburger Nachrichten, Austria), “One of the world-class virtuosi of the 21st century” (Le Monde, Paris).
 * Dear Anthony Appleyard,
 * Please have a look my article when you grab a chance here
 * Well I might change the opening sentence where i mentioned words: "mesmerized critics..praised" - I think putting this in wiki would be a problem? Please let me know what is your suggestion. I can reference this reviews. I need to know some opinions from other users what they think about putting these sentences in article. I just wanna make sure it will not be a subject of removal, however if that contradicts notability of this article I will consider not putting in it. Thank you! Regards Sausa 07:49, 8 December 2010 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sausa11 (talk • contribs)


 * With each quotation, add a reference to say where it comes from, but be prepared for other users editing or removing them. Anthony Appleyard (talk) 10:02, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm going to risk a blanket statement here by saying superlatives of this type are typically found in promotional brochures, and have no place on WP. They certainly contributed to my wanting the original article deleted as spam, and which also caused a neutral admin to delete it. I'm glad they are gone. By all means cite the fact that reviewer(s) have praised him, and link to them to establish notability, but please leave such quotes, sourced or otherwise, out of the article. -- Ohconfucius ¡digame! 13:43, 8 December 2010 (UTC)


 * Thank you very much to both of you: Anthony Appleyard, and Ohconfucius! I will take your suggestions in consideration! Regards Sausa (talk) 19:12, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

Books LLC, Alphascript, Betascript, Fastbook Publishing ...
I've removed this Books LLC reference: In its product description, Amazon.com gives the following URL: http://booksllc.net/?id=23491960 which redirects to the Giorgi Latsabidze page in wikipedia.
 * Georgian Pianists: Georgian Classical Pianists (2010). Books LLC. ISBN 978-1157841326: http://www.amazon.com/Georgian-Pianists-Latsabidze-Goglidze-Mdivani-Buniatishvili/dp/1157841325 (Page archived here).

See: User:Fences and windows/Unreliable sources and Amazon.com controversies. Playmobilonhishorse (talk) 04:15, 16 December 2010 (UTC)

Elimination of Latsabidze Giorgi biography in French Wikipedia
Hello my name is Adolfo, I have 39 years and I studied piano for 30 years, I'm writing from Spain. My teacher was from Georgia and he spoke of his country's best musician Latsabidze Giorgi, I study their records and know well their work and career. First I want to congratulate you for your good article on Latsabidze in the English Wikipedia. I'm writing because I need your help because Latsabidze's biography has been removed from the French Wikipedia, they have told many lies about Latsabidze, they say they have never won the international competition Rubeinstein of Paris, who has never received the scholarship Carol Hogel, who has never recorded an album etc .... As you can see here:http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discussion:Giorgi_Latsabidze/Suppression I wrote to administrators to demonstrate the lies they tell: http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discussion_utilisateur:LPLT  (August 12) http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discussion_utilisateur:Wikinade (August 15) After demonstrating that they lie, I have requested that the biography is restored in the French Wikipedia as you can see here:http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipédia:Demande_de_restauration_de_page#Giorgi_Latsabidze (August 17) They've given the reasons as you can see and I have proven to be lies. I need your help and the help of the English Wikipedia, I need people to write to show their disagreement with the decision because only tell lies about Giorgi Latsabidze. I can not and I just need people to agree with me that it is written in the French Wikipedia showing their disagreement. Thank you very much for your attention. --Carlitosbull (talk) 20:32, 25 August 2012 (UTC)
 * I am now convinced that it all is very extensive interwiki POV-pushing. Secondary sources are weak, rarely (if ever) focused on subject, and of dubious independance. A very clever advertising exercise from people ready to spend any amount of time and resort to any argument, however irrelevant, to insist this pianist is notable, until you are totally fed up and just want to leave the discussion. --Azurfrog (talk) 09:33, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

Biography
The biography section would benefit from being more of a biography and less a set of paragraphs about aspects of the pianist's professional life. Thus "In 2012 Latsabidze was appointed official pianist to Foo, and while in this role performed at Bar hall and recorded several of Quocks preludes." I hope this makes sense. Rich Farmbrough, 16:50, 22 September 2012 (UTC).


 * Hi Rich Farmbrough: working on editing and improving Latsabidze's article. Made some changes, hope I did cite sources right. Please explain your last sentence, didn't really get what you are saying... Sorry! Are you talking about particular sentence or paragraph from the article? Thanks! Helen-Heller (talk) 21:14, 23 September 2012 (UTC)
 * If you would give me couple of examples from what you meant in previous messages, I 'll see if I can change some in biography section. Thanks! Helen-Heller (talk) 08:19, 24 September 2012 (UTC)

External links modified
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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120921011829/http://www.sjss.org.uk:80/events/ignatz-waghalter to http://www.sjss.org.uk/events/ignatz-waghalter
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20130115194236/http://www.wigmore-hall.org.uk/about-us/newmusic/past/2010-11 to http://www.wigmore-hall.org.uk/about-us/newmusic/past/2010-11
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110716061416/http://www.wigmore-hall.org.uk:80/whats-on/productions/james-turnbull-oboe-craig-white-piano-irmina-trynkos-violin-giorgi-latsabidze-p to http://www.wigmore-hall.org.uk/whats-on/productions/james-turnbull-oboe-craig-white-piano-irmina-trynkos-violin-giorgi-latsabidze-p
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20100718123543/http://www-scf.usc.edu/~capmt/page2/page2.html to http://www-scf.usc.edu/~capmt/page2/page2.html
 * Added tag to http://web-app.usc.edu/ws/eo2/calendar/32/event/867369

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External links modified
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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110515153727/http://www.pianistsfromtheinside.com/interviews.htm to http://www.pianistsfromtheinside.com/interviews.htm

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Lacks of References
After first review this article lacks of references - many of the given citations do not prove the given statements or are dead. CommanderWaterford (talk) 11:23, 17 May 2020 (UTC)

Comments, as requested
, as requested on my talk page, I have now read your current text carefully. A few points:
 * It hardly needs saying, but where there is a "citation needed" tag you need either to justify the relevant statement with a citation or else remove it. More widely, you should satisfy yourself that the comment in the section above this one that "many of the given citations do not prove the given statements or are dead" is no longer applicable. This means checking each one: does the cited source say what your text says it says?
 * The lead is rather skimpy: it should mention all relevant aspects of the main text. You might add a few words on his biography – date of birth, debut etc, the works/composers with which he is particularly associated, and anything else of note about him.
 * There are too many stubby paragraphs. Try to group sentences together in paragraphs that each relate to a general topic under sub-headers such as "recordings and broadcasts", "reception and critical opinion" "compositions" etc and to give, as far as possible, a chronological sketch of his career to date.
 * I'm not sure you want two separate paragraphs about recordings as well as a list of them at the end. Unless there is a particular reason to give details in the main text, something like "His first recording, Aaaa's Bbbb, was issued in [date]; his later recordings include works by Xxxx to Yyyy" might be better.
 * The references need tidying up: words all in capital letters, e.g. "BEETHOVEN – CONCIERTO PARA PIANO NO. 5 "EMPERADOR" should be in upper and lower case (see MOS:ALLCAPS); there is a bare URL at ref 46, and in refs like 27 and 28 you want a bit more detail: for online refs the citation should preferably show the page title, the source, the organisation publishing it, and the date of publication or date retrieved.
 * There are a few infelicities in the prose, but if you address the above points you'll have made a good start to improving the article.

If anything else occurs to me on a further read-through, tomorrow probably, I'll add it here, but I hope the above will be of use for now. Happy to discuss any point further if wanted.  Tim riley  talk   18:44, 23 May 2020 (UTC)