Talk:Grid-tied electrical system

Merge proposal
---NO MERGE---

Is a different kind of grid tied system and by the way Solar Gried Systems are way more important and relevant. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.180.70.169 (talk) 16:18, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

V2G should not be merged with Grid-tied electrical system.

The potential of V2G to change the energy landscape is huge, however before this can happen, a chicken and egg problem must be overcome. V2G will not be commercially viable until there are large numbers of V2G cars on the road. The concept relies partly on the law of averages e.g. if you toss a coin ten times, you might throw anything from 0% to 100% heads. If you toss a coin 1,000,000 times, you will almost invariably throw 50% heads (to the nearest one percent). Similarly, a large fleet of V2G cars can be relied upon to be available to the grid when required. A small fleet offers no such reliability.

Thus government support will be essential. The problem is, I have seen few people in government who understand the concept. My own attempts to alert the Australian Government to the potential of V2G have been met with silence. The key then, is understanding.

If V2G were merged with Grid-tied electrical system, it would be less likely to be seen as a solution in its own right. V2G must be given prominence. I believe V2G is THE missing piece in the energy sustainability puzzle. Let's not make that piece harder to find than it already is.

203.217.69.196 12:10, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Do not merge.

V2G is perhaps a sub-part of grid tied energy systems, but is is much like a type of generator or solar cell. Economically the cost of using petrol to provide energy into the grid is nonsense. In contrast, for providing energy for a remote work site or holiday home is more realistic.


 * I'm on the fence. V2G is a type of GTES, and neither article has much content (V2G is a single section, and neither V2G nor GTES cite any references on their topics), but I find B2G and V2G conceptually distinct from the traditional GTESs in use today. That is, most current GTES installations involve solar or wind generators, and use the grid to avoid the need for batteries. V2G is almost all about storage, and B2G is exclusively about storage, rather than power generation. However, there are important overlaps between the two; sections like what countries allow GTES apply equally to V2G and B2G systems. I disagree with 203.217.69.196's rationale: providing "prominence" to a topic with its own article seems advocacy-oriented; I think the relationship of the topics and Article_size are better criteria. -Agyle 04:09, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

Do Not Merge. While I agree that both articles (V2G & GTES) need significant expansion, their actual concepts (though not the current articles) are distinct enough that they should remain separate. I think the place for change is in the GTES article, which currently seems to focus on battery to grid systems, even though most Grid-tied systems are solar or other small scale, intermittent renewable generation systems that have no batteries at all. In fact if asked to define a grid-tied system I would probably start with something like: A grid-tied system is a (typically small) solar/wind/other generator that connects to the utility grid, rather than to a battery, to supply power to load when the energy source is either not available (ex. for solar = night or cloudy day), or not sufficient to meet the current load (ex. undersized system, periods of excessive loading). Perhaps the major distinction that can be drawn is that GTES is stationary and designed primarily for grid inter-connection, while V2G is the concept of taking a mobile resource designed primarily for transportation and using it for the secondary purpose of grid support. ClimbWild 15:26, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

NO MERGE!

There are 105 million homes in the USA, but 200 million light trucks and cars fleet, roughly 2 cars per household. A 72-kWh BEV fleet can power the entire USA homes for six days if required. A 60 kWh fuel cell (80 horsepower, not much by anybody's standards) can run 60 homes for each hour that it has fuel on a BEV-hybrid. A 12" diameter pipeline grid that runs the length of the USA interstate system would hold nearly 10 billion kilograms of H2 gas at 3,000 psi. Europeans have approved a 3,750 psi epoxy-fiber pipe for H2 service, and scuba divers strap on 3,000 psi tanks on their backs for comparison. 10 billion kilos of H2 would fuel 200,000,000 fuel cell cars to drive from Los Angeles to NYC. The doubling of PV installations is now every two years at 40% annual compound growth -- in 28 years there will be enough PV to supply all the electricity currently used in the USA, and in two more years that will double again. There needs to be growth of energy storage for night-time use of daytime solar PV power which will surely exist without any shadow of a doubt. H2 pipelines and BEVs are that storage. The concept of "electric utility company" may be obsolete with all citizens being producers and consumers, buying and selling clean energy -- why should the filthy rich have all the fun? (And I mean "filthy" not in a good way after Hurricane Exxon and Hurricane Toyota category 5's hit this year -- there have been twice as many cat 5s in 2007 as there have been cat 2s worldwide, and they are coming out of your tailpipes.)

Google is putting $10,000,000 in V2G technology, and it is a distinct term and distinct concept which is not similar to any other energy selling schemes. Let the others be merged into V2G instead so that V2G gets the prominence it deserves. Cars use four times the energy of homes -- no home-grown grid-tied scheme comes near V2G potential. H2-PV 07:23, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

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How to install the off-grid system
Answer soon 197.232.116.41 (talk) 12:32, 16 June 2022 (UTC)