Talk:Gunnerkrigg Court

Meaning
What's the meaning of gunnerkrigg?  Oc t  ane  [ improve me ] 11.11.07 2120 (UTC)

So far, it seems to be a corruption of "Gunnar's Crag". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 218.50.226.52 (talk) 10:02, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

And umm... what is the significance of "Gunnar's Crag"?--TEAKAY-C II R (talk) 23:12, 5 January 2008 (UTC)


 * It's "Gunner's Crag", to be precise (see comic page #139). "Gunner" denominates one of the founding members of the Court, the same person that's been referred to as the "Artilleryman" (see #586). This was confirmed by Siddel on his (now defunct) Formspring.me (the information has been preserved here, although I cannot guarantee how complete or correct that compilation is). "Crag" would most likely refer to a formation of rock, but that is speculation. --80.132.252.2 (talk) 20:38, 31 July 2011 (UTC)

As I've been reading, there have been a ridiculous amount of outside references. The common alchemical symbols that keep showing up are lead and a corrupted drawing of bismuth (the symbol is much more like rocksalt, though it has been in confirmed on page 372 that it is indeed bismuth); the two can be found above the front door to Gunnerkrigg Court. I'm not sure what Reynardine's is though. As for the significance of Gunnerkrigg (perhaps not a corruption, but instead a foreign translation?), it might be the parallel to the real-world Chapelcross nuclear power station, which used River Annan to cool its nuclear towers (the "annan waters" are mentioned by Mort in strip 155). The coincidence is uncanny. Further reading might produce more clues. - Matt Ambrose, 17:18, 12 February 2008

Possible expansion
Quite a bit has developed with this webcomic, and considering that comics like Dominic Deegan get large pages and this comic has become much more notable, this comic deserves to get a decent article. God knows it doesn't now.

Also for an image, is there any way we could change it? I'm not sure what would be legal to use.

I think it could also use some serious cleaning up, I will inform you when that happens. Terra (talk) 16:29, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

Awards Section
All of the nominations that it has had are now there, along with its wins. Should this be changed to a table for easy of use? Terra (talk) 16:44, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

Image
Changed the image to the image of the new book, seeing as it is more illustrative of Siddell's current style and also because I'm pretty sure the old book is out of print. Terra (talk) 17:14, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

Some serious edits
Added genres and fixed a typo in the Awards section. I looked through the comics articles, and there is only one featured article in webcomics that I can see--Megatokyo. Even if it isn't as big as Megatokyo, I think we should use that as our standard here.

I also split the characters into Main Characters and Minor characters--the Main Character designation going to all characters that have contributed significantly and lastingly to the plot.

Terra (talk) 23:32, 21 April 2008 (UTC)


 * The key to real improvement is focusing on the real-world impact angle. Too much plot can cause concerns but if you can add in things like reception (reviews, awards, etc. - already doing well with the awards) and background (look for information in interviews, etc.) especially when these are from reliable sources. If they have been featured in a mainstream news report or article then all to the good. ASP do a good job tracking reviews. etc. - there isn't anything on the page yet but worth checking on from time to time: . (Emperor (talk) 23:50, 21 April 2008 (UTC))


 * Allright, I'll work on some of that right now. Terra (talk) 00:46, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

Boxbot seriously missing
There is nothing more notable in the entire world than boxbot. Also, nobody likes boxbot. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.67.23.49 (talk) 23:30, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Currently down.
Attempting to access www.gunnerkrigg.com at this time results in a 403 forbidden error.

This could possibly be a result of having been linked to by www.questionablecontent.net, a website that receives a (relatively, for a webcomic) large amount of traffic. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.175.186.106 (talk) 07:12, 30 August 2008 (UTC)


 * I e-mailed the writer this morning about the server problems and he said the hosting service has taken the site down for now due to memory usage. It's currently being mirrored here.  If you enter http://gunnerkrigg.com/ in your browser (that link, not the link to the index page or anything) it should redirect to the mirror (it does right now, at least). --Politizer (talk) 20:45, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

Characters
Regarding Terra's decision to split the Characters section into major and minor characters (see above): i'm not sure how feasible this is. First of all, it would be hard to agree on what constitutes a "significant and lasting" contribution to the plot. Some examples.... Basically I'm just wondering if it's a good idea to separate major and minor characters based on these criteria, when given the trajectory of the story we will probably have to be changing things pretty frequently (ie, moving characters from one section to the other). Maybe it would be better to have them all in one big section (although I do like the division into students, creatures, etc... although we might be able to avoid even that if we got pictures next to the characters, like they do in the Questionable Content article.
 * Alistair may not have made a huge difference (as far as we know now) to where the main plot of the story is going, but a) he had a whole chapter basically about him, and b) he had a big effect on Kat's character (after that chapter there are lots of references to him or jokes about how Kat likes birds).
 * Antimony's father is currently listed as a character who does not appear in the Court, which is true for now, but the author has already acknowledged that he will be making an appearance in the story sometime in the future.
 * Diego and Jeanne are listed as minor characters, but the amount of speculation about the robots, the significance of Jeanne's ghost down by the river, etc., seems to suggest that they will figure largely in the plot at some time in the future.

Also, I am thinking of adding a brief (one sentence or less, to start) description next to each character....do you guys think that would be ok? --Politizer (talk) 21:01, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

Strange school?
I removed the following bit: "while the school has been described as "strange", no characters appear to be particularly surprised by any of this."

I think this is not accurate anymore in the strip, as some other characters have sometimes seemed to wonder about the school's strangeness. For example, after Kat rescues Antimony from the Annan River, she is eager to fly over the school and get a better look at what it might really be; Zimmy, too, seems to be aware that the school is out of the ordinary (since she was approached by strange people inviting her to go there). --Politizer (talk) 22:19, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

Editing Setting
There seems to be some disagreement on whether the article should say Gunnerkrigg Court is located in the UK. Users who want to add that are citing this comic, in which the bonus page's narrator (presumably Antimony) states: "Like most schools in the United Kingdom, the students at Gunnerkrigg Court are divided into four houses."

This quotation alone, however, does not provide sufficient justification for saying in the article that Gunnerkrigg Court is actually in the UK:
 * 1) It does not read "like most other schools in the UK," but just "like most schools in the UK." Since Siddell is British and most of his readers in the beginning were probably British as well, it's normal that a clear way of describing something would have been to say "this is like what you guys are used to; ie, it's like a UK school."  Thus, even this quote does not definitely prove that GC is in the UK.
 * 2) It is clear that Gunnerkrigg Court takes place in a world different than our own, what with the magic and psychopomps, the mixing of creatures that are from different backgrounds in our world (I mean, in the real world, Coyote, Reynardine, and the Moddey Dhoo and Mallt all come from different landmasses). So within the story itself, our literal version of "UK" has no real meaning--the best thing we can say about the setting in the story is that it is an approximation of the UK or is based on the UK.
 * 3) Referring to GC as being in "a place that resembles the UK," rather than saying it's in the UK itself, is the best way to conform to the Wikipedia guidelines for writing about fiction. One of the main concerns in this article is keeping it at a real-world perspective and avoiding writing from an in-universe perspective (see the link above).  Saying that the Court is located in a place that resembles the UK is a good way to make it very clear from the outset of the section that we are writing about a work of fiction, and that it does not exist in the real world.  If we are ever to apply for Good article status, which is the goal for this article, we should keep it that way.

If you would like to change the way the location of Gunnerkrigg Court is described in the article, please discuss it here first. Thank you! Politizer (talk) 05:24, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

Now, I thought this'd be interesting. Check the link - http://www.gunnerkrigg.com/archive_page.php?comicID=303 - and notice the authors note at the bottom. "Another envelope, this time complete with edges scuffed and worn by air transport." The last place the writer (Kat) sent a letter from was Scotland. Ergo, the school would need to be on the same continent if it did not travel via air (of course, there is the possibility of a boat but who delivers letters via boat? It'd take too long). And since going to the country of Scotland was considered a holiday, the school would have to be situated in either Wales or England, certainly in the United Kingdom. I'm aware that "Another envelope, this time complete with edges scuffed and worn by air transport." might just mean that it got worn on the flight and did not last time but I'm certain the author wouldn't bother keeping us updated on how the letters fared during each flight if that was the case. Personally, I think that this is fairly good evidence that the school is definitely in the UK. Of course, everything you said still applies, that this UK is not the real world's UK and really should just be a place that "resembles it", but I figured I'd just point out some interesting info you might have missed. I'm also aware that this changes nothing, but whatever.--58.161.18.62 (talk) 10:59, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

Commented-out characters
I commented out a bunch of characters a while back, but am keeping them so that in the future if they become "major" enough to move into the main article we will at least have half of the writing done. Moving them here now to get them out of the main article. (Still commented out, though; click 'edit' to view.) --Politizer (talk) 14:06, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

Suggestions for development
In lieu of a proper GA review, I have a few superficial comments to make regarding the article. These are simply conventions, which you may ignore at your convenience. Goodreads.com appears to be an open wiki. The sentence the ref is used in already has two other refs, and the only claim needing referencing seems to be the publication date, which is verifiable through the ISBN; is this ref really necessary? Most of the other refs seem to be either self-references to Siddel's sites, or references to websites. You are going to need to prove that each source satisfies WP:RS. Who owns and operates the websites cited are important here. Personal blogs are unlikely to pass as RS's.
 * Production: Stub sentences need to be gotten under control and merged into paragraphs of at least 5/6 lines long where possible. Currently the flow is disrupted and topics change somewhat abruptly.
 * Inline citations: These always follow punctuation; some need to be moved to the end of the clause/sentence/quote.
 * Quotes: No italics please; see WP:MOSQUOTE.
 * Synopsis: This needs more rigorous referencing. As individual pages of the comic can be linked to directly, there is little excuse for the infrequent inline citations here.
 * Spoiler warnings: these are deprecated per WP:SPOILER.
 * Fair use images: You're going to have a hard time justifying the use of so many copyrighted images. See Category:GA-Class Webcomics articles.
 * Inline external links: GA and FA articles practically never embed external links in the article body; these should be converted to citations. The rationale here is that the reader should not be redirected away from the article until they have finished reading the body i.e. when they get to the References/External links sections.
 * Self-references: WP:ASR; referring to Wikipedia or the article itself is a big no-no. "See External Links for a partial list..." needs to go.
 * Notes: Where possible, try to use quotes instead of making the reader go to an off-site link.
 * External links: These should be kept to a minumum, per WP:EL. The news, reviews and interviews should be integrated as inline citations. I'm not sure what unique resource the list offers.
 * Questionable sources:

I heavily recommend you check out WP:COMICS, which has a lot of resources and knowledgable editors who have helped bring comics articles to GA/FA status before. Please feel free to ask if you have a question with any of the above, and I repeat that these are just observations on where this article strays from the path of GA convention, not law. Good luck! Regards, the skomorokh  19:20, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

GA On Hold
Minor but currently insurmountable problem: This cannot pass GA while there's citation needed tags in it. Send a message to my talk page when that's fixed, and I'll do a "proper" review =) Shoemaker&#39;s Holiday (talk) 01:16, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

Plot section rewrite
(I started a new section for this so I wouldn't clutter up the GA review; hope you don't mind.) Ok, here is a really quick rewrite I threw together of the plot section. It's very sketchy and glosses over details, but according to the guidelines you pointed out to me and to WP:NOT, that is probably desirable anyway (not the least because it will allow us to take about 40 primary-source footnotes and trim it down to 7). You don't have to worry about factual accuracy, since I don't want to force you to read through all 500-ish pages of the comic's archives; I will try to go through and make sure everything is correct and properly quoted.Let me know what you think, and if you like it then I can replace the whole plot section with this little bit (after making some minor revisions, of course):


 * The story of Gunnerkrigg Court involves several different ongoing plot arcs. The main story is that of the protagonist, Antimony Carver, and her deepening involvement in the intrigues between Gunnerkrigg Court and the Gillitie Wood; she is accompanied throughout the storyline by her friend and classmate Kat Donlan and her companion Reynardine, a demon living within her stuffed animal.


 * The story begins when Antimony builds a robot named Robot to transport a mysterious shadow into Gillitie Wood, the forest outside Gunnerkrigg Court. Several chapters later in the comic, and apparently several months later in the story's timeline, Robot and another shadow reappear on the bridge outside Gunnerkrigg Court and push Antimony off the bridge when she goes out to meet them. Antimony spends a night at the banks of the river below the bridge, and encounters a ghost, before she is rescued by Kat and taken back to the school.  Her brief time outside Gunnerkrigg Court, though, sets off a dispute between Gunnerkrigg Court and the Gillitie Wood.  Not long after Antimony's return, the Court is visited by Coyote and General Ysengrin, a pair of powerful beings from the wood, who express anger over damage Antimony caused when she left the Court.   After the meeting, Antimony is nominated to begin training to become a medium, one of the individuals who moderate disputes between the Wood and the Court and communicates with etheric beings, and she begins considering returning to the woods to speak with Coyote.  As these events unfold, Antimony and her companions also slowly learn more about their surroundings, the relationship between Gunnerkrigg Court and the Gillitie Wood, and the beings they encounter.



&mdash;Politizer( talk • contribs ) 01:09, 17 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Just be sure to clarify what and who everything and everyone is at the first mention. Like " intrigues between Gunnerkrigg Court and the Gillitie Wood" - add here "the forest outside Gunnerkrigg Court", rather than waiting until the next paragraph to clarify. In fact, in the article intro you probably should name the wood also, - "the wood, known as the Gillitie Wood" or some such. Repetition never hurts for those of us who are unfamiliar with the story and all the names and places! &mdash; Mattisse (Talk) 02:04, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with File:Antimony-symbol-traditional.gif
The image File:Antimony-symbol-traditional.gif is used in this article under a claim of fair use, but it does not have an adequate explanation for why it meets the requirements for such images when used here. In particular, for each page the image is used on, it must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page. Please check


 * That there is a non-free use rationale on the image's description page for the use in this article.
 * That this article is linked to from the image description page.

This is an automated notice by FairuseBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Media copyright questions. --11:48, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

io9 review
Check it. Skomorokh 14:45, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks for this! Sorry I've been inactive lately; I read through this when you posted it, but I'll try to re-read it soon and work it into the article. I also need to update the plot summary. Thanks again, r ʨ anaɢ talk/contribs 00:04, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

Update
I have really fallen behind on keeping the plot summary up to date. Sometime in the next couple weeks I'll try to re-skim the four or five chapters that have been completed since I last updated this, and bring the summary back up to date. r ʨ anaɢ talk/contribs 00:30, 26 November 2009 (UTC)

Significance of the name "Reynardine"
This article describes Reynardine as taking a wolf-like incarnation, and, indeed, he's drawn to look like a wolf. However, no mention is made of the fact that Reynardine is the name of a fox in British folktales. rowley (talk) 18:56, 27 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Even though the connection is obvious to a reader, making a big deal out of such a connection here would be WP:OR. Also, for what it's worth, there is a bolded link to the article Reynardine. r ʨ anaɢ (talk) 23:30, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

Kat's sexuality
To avoid a potential edit-war - I removed the reference in the cast section to Kat's homosexuality. Of all the things Kat has gone through, her sexuality is a very minor detail. I don't see why this needs to be included in her very very brief description as if this is some defining point of her character. It is not. Omegastar (talk) 15:15, 23 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Agreed; it isn't a defining characteristic (as opposed to, say, her innate interest in robotics). EVula // talk // &#9775;  // 15:43, 23 June 2013 (UTC)
 * I agree for now. We'll see how things pan out over time; it may not be a defining part of her personality, but if it becomes an important part of her story (the last chapter was somewhat about her struggles with this...although I guess not really until the last few pages) then it may be worth mentioning. Of course, it's just as possible that the issue is resolved now and things between Kat and Paz will be normal from here on out...only time with tell! r ʨ anaɢ (talk) 13:26, 24 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Hello, I have mentioned her relationship with Paz in the profile, taking into consideration how the current chapter revolves about their relationship, and their first kiss, and other characters' reaction to Kat's sexuality. This might justify the article's insertion into the LGBT-webcomics category?

No RFD?
Why has this article not been recommended for RFD??? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.14.203.25 (talk) 14:25, 3 February 2014 (UTC)
 * WP:Redirects for discussion? Why would it be? It's not a redirect. r ʨ anaɢ (talk) 18:42, 3 February 2014 (UTC)

Reception section
An anonymous user has removed all negative reviews from the 'Reception' section. I reverted twice since we strive for a neutral point of view. More recent reviews could probably improve this section though. --Lemnaminor (talk) 14:46, 9 January 2015 (UTC)
 * some potential reviews:, , , . --Lemnaminor (talk) 15:00, 9 January 2015 (UTC)

As requested you have requested, I have simply cleaned up the Critical Reception section, and updated with recent sources. Apologies for the trouble eariler. 24.77.238.66 (talk) 00:16, 10 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks!--Lemnaminor (talk) 10:37, 10 January 2015 (UTC)

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Article for the author
The article on this particular comic is pretty great. But it strikes me that the author is notable, and an article on him as a webcomic author/artist would be nice to create. Currently, his name redirects to this article about the webcomic and book. --Lizzard (talk) 23:22, 12 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Well, if you think you can create something good, go ahead. I don't know if Tom Siddell has done anything notable other than Gunnerkrigg Court, nor do I know anything of his career, education, or personal life. Those are the kind of things that could make an article on him good. If you can't fill in more than a small section, you might as well keep it merged here. I recommend starting a draft :) ~ Mable ( chat ) 09:44, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

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This page needs a serious overhaul
The plot synopsis hasn't been updated in nine years.

Is it really necessary to put a little quote from the comic in every single citation? And does every statement need a separate citation?

Is anybody still watching this page?

—VeryRarelyStable (talk) 08:36, 2 August 2018 (UTC)

...Agreed. The story now represents 13 years of effort. I think it would be best restructured into brief synopses of each volume. I might start a draft off here before plonking it into the main article (and raise it in the comic forum). Arfisk (talk) 08:12, 19 September 2018 (UTC)


 * I just did an update of the plot. The citations are almost impossible to manage and actually make the entire process of updating the text incredibly cumbersome. Maybe whe should split it into volumes, but I went more by overarching plot points (Jeanne's ghost, Anthony's return and its aftermath, Loup, and Kat with the robots). It may still be in need of more work, but we can start from here. Not A Superhero (talk) 02:59, 25 February 2020 (UTC)