Talk:Gurren Lagann/Archive 1

Official English Title?
Any idea where the ANN got this article title? It doesn't appear to be a translation of the Japanese. What is a Maiking, anyway? We should try to find a different source, make sure the article title is correct. (The other ANN article gives a different title...) Doceirias 23:58, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
 * I don't know, but I moved the article to this name quite a while back when there wasn't a whole lot of information. I would be in favor of moving it to Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann until there is a clear English name. Leebo T / C  00:37, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Sounds good to me. I think the general policy is to keep the pages at the Japanese title until a clear official English title emerges. Doceirias 00:55, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Okay, I'll request that the page be moved to Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann, which is a redirect page now. Leebo T / C  01:01, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
 * The request has been made. After the move, someone will need to go through the article and change all the references to the title appropriately. Leebo T / C  01:08, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Move done as requested. Please look at the links and change pages so taht they link directly to the new new name, not via a redirect. Particualrly since this may well be moved again when an "offical" english name emerges, and if the links aren't cleaned up by then double redirects would be created, which are a bother. DES (talk) 14:50, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Thank you for completing the move. I will fix any double redirects.  Leebo  T / C  15:03, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Characters section
I changed the formatting of the characters section to be a bit more like Elfen Lied's, because I like that one. I think it's a bit cleaner to edit and shows up more consistently depending on your monitor settings.  Leebo  T / C  15:28, 21 April 2007 (UTC)


 * hmmmm, I preferred the way it was before, it looked much neater, and i'm very picky about the presentation of things. Plus, the way the pictures are Landscape, it doesn't really work. In my opinion, anyway. Blah. N-Denizen 19:43, 21 April 2007 (UTC)N-Denizen
 * On my monitor, the last picture was lined up with the references rather than the text. This new version displays correctly. Doceirias 19:52, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Oh, ok, if the way it was before doesn't display correctly on some monitors, it might be best to keep it like this. N-Denizen 09:04, 22 April 2007 (UTC)N-Denizen
 * What I did was reduce the size of the images, remove the captions, and add - between sections. What - does is it automatically generates enough whitespace for the image to display correctly, no matter how much whitespace is needed for your monitor. It works better than manually adding whitespace with line breaks. I'm open to changes with formatting, but I think we should keep the -.  Leebo  T / C  16:03, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Ugh, can we FINALLY decide how this characters section is going to look like? People keep adding borders, removing borders, changing positions,changing sizes etc. Sometimes it's a good layout, sometimes it just doesn't work. For example, now, the text and pictures just aren't aligned and it all looks messy, but somebody found some reason to change it all. If you try to correct it and make it look neater, it just gets changed again. Personally, I favour large-ish pictures, all aligned on the right-hand side. It fits with the text much easier, and is just overall a better layout - I think. Keep it simple.N-Denizen 17:53, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
 * People are going to change it based on how they want to, there's nothing wrong with that. When you see it happen, change it back if you don't like it.  Leebo  T / C  18:50, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Thought I'll chime in here and say that I prefer the current zig-zag layout more. It adds a bit of variety which is lacking when all pictures are aligned on one side. -- Darkbane  talk 19:09, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

We seriously need an individual character page as the cast has grown enormously. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 189.153.113.184 (talk • contribs).
 * You mean splitting it off into a main article? Shouldn't we wait a bit longer since the section right now is not really that long.--  十  八  00:26, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, actually, there are tons of characters now, though most of them are secondary and fairly insignificant. Still worth making one though, sometime in the future. 195.137.86.22 07:26, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Episode titles
Just to let you all know, the episode titles are listed in the "Story" sections of the various official websites. I've added the Japanese text as well as the transliterations for all 5, and I'm asking that someone translate the last two episodes' titles.— Ryūlóng ( 竜龍 ) 09:39, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Episode 6 apparently has multiple names. In the fansubbed versions released, it's been named as "You've Landed Us All In Hot Water!" but the name in the episode list that was put here is different.
 * Neither title is an accurate translation. It actually means "All of you take a bath!" Doceirias 01:05, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

Ganmen Names
Do the Ganmen have names? Aside from Enki, Gurren, Lagann, and Gurren-Lagann that is. If not, should we just use working appearence names? Like, "Skull Ganmen", "Bull Ganmen", "Monkey Ganmen", "Frog Ganmen"? 71.9.137.37 02:50, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
 * We should avoid using personal interpretations of Ganmen appearances to name unnamed Ganmen. That tends to apply to all plot speculation in general - unless you can attribute a fact to the show or one of its creators, you shouldn't included it for the sake of WP:NOR.  Leebo  T / C  20:35, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

It may be worth noting that Viral's Ganmen, Enkidu, shares a name with a famous mythological character, Enkidu. This may, in fact, have consequences on character development. Jr78 03:41, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Director Controversy
I think it would be a good idea to add a section for the director controversy surronding the series and how one of the long-time producers of Gainax had to resign due to 2chan drama. For the full details check here for the details. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sevds (talk • contribs) 13:17, May 1, 2007
 * That's an interesting story, and I think it deserves some mention, but we should be careful not to give it undue weight. Only a brief mention is necessary.  Leebo  T / C  14:55, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
 * I added a section about it, and i's kind of hard to describe it succinctly. If anyone can reword it to be shorter while retaining the relevant points, that would be great. Also, I titled the section "2channel incident," but I'm open to other titles for it.  Leebo  T / C  15:13, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

Edited "seyiuu" to "voice actor"
Quit being japanophiles; this is an English wikipedia. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by IguanarayD: (talk • contribs) 08:19, 12 May 2007 (UTC).
 * Seiyū is a term for Japanese voice actors and is a loanword— Ryūlóng ( 竜龍 ) 22:09, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Please be civil when discussing changes to the article. Collaboration is achieved more readily when pejorative terms like "japanophile" are avoided.  Leebo  T / C  16:46, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Seiyuu may be the Japanese term for "voice actor", but the majority of people who visit this page will probably not be aware of that. You wouldn't want to classify this is "terebi anime", either, so why use the term "seiyuu"? Jr78 03:44, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
 * That's what wikilinks are for; you can click on seiyū when you want to find out what it means.  Leebo  T / C  03:56, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
 * The convention to be used which makes both parties happy is to pipe link seiyū so that it appears as voice actor; this makes the prose stay within the English language, but the link adheres to the Japanese voice actor article. Of course though, this doesn't apply anymore is the anime voices template is in use, and should stay that way.--  十  八  04:43, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Trivia section
There was a pretty obvious reference to Gainax's earlier series on episode 6 with the bunny girls at the hot spring. Do you guys think this warrants the start of a trivia section?
 * No, generally speaking we should avoid trivia sections, per WP:TRIVIA. If there are a sufficient number of references to other anime, we can start a "references to other anime" section though, like the one in Hayate the Combat Butler -- Darkbane  talk 19:36, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

hey guys i recently found squidward in episode 12 and shin-chan in episode 5 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.146.88.154 (talk) 04:00, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

"Future Scene"
I just edited out a part of the Characters section saying: “Kamina is apparently the son of a man seen in the first episode. At the end of the second episode, he discovers a partially buried skeleton which has a skull trinket and a cape which his father also possessed. “

Now, nobody actually knows about the “Future scene”. It might not even be in the future, and we have little idea who the character is in that scene. Considering the fact that this series is being intentionally ambiguous, nobody should be putting assumptions in the article.N-Denizen 17:47, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
 * That reference looks like unfounded speculation. I for one was under the heavy impression that the people in the "future scene" were Simon and Kamina (with recent developments, maybe Simon and Rossiu). The part about the buried skeleton being his dad is true though - but it is extra character detail that is superfluous in the first place. -- Darkbane  talk 19:13, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
 * The man in the first episode being Simon is entirely possible, though I'm not sure who his sidekick is. If you look closely, he seems to be a Beastman, which would rule out any of the current characters. Imban 12:04, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
 * After seing episode 16, the second person seems to be nobody we know. Best not refer to it all, it could be anytime and it could have anyone in it. N-Denizen 16:29, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
 * The future person is most likely Boota in human form. Also it most likely takes place AFTER the end of the series as it makes reference to attacking the galactic government which wasn't formed until the end of the series. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.151.136.24 (talk) 15:14, 3 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Yeah, that seems pretty reasonable - he certainly does look like Boota's humanoid form, and the flag and the vessel itself all militate for it being set after the series; of course, the problem there is that the epilogue shows Simon being some sort of homeless wanderer, which doesn't square with going out and fighting for Earth with the Gurren Lagann or whatever. --Gwern (contribs) 15:01 28 November 2007 (GMT)


 * I think it makes sense. He wanders about, then war were declared, he gets pissed and starts to fight everyone... I want this to be the case because it implies OVA or movie tie in. Also, it would clearly resolve the spiral nemesis issue, which is a pretty big open end. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.151.136.20 (talk) 12:08, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

from what i understand, the 'future scene' is supposed to represent the "bad ending" where simon flips out and becomes the spiral nemesis. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.182.109.83 (talk) 01:58, 2 December 2007 (UTC)
 * You can't become the Spiral Nemesis. The Spiral Nemesis is more of a phenomenon. Hatredcopter (talk) 21:26, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

Website Name Changes
I applied a bunch of name changes from the official website, namely Ganmen becoming Gunmen, Enkido becoming Enkidu, Chimiruf becoming Thymilph, and Daiganzan becoming Dai-Gunzan. The Dai-Gurren-dan (and possibly by extension, the Gurren-dan) seems like it's picked up an official name too, but I'm not sure whether I want to make that edit: it's referred to as Team Dai-Gurren on the official website. Imban 12:16, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Oh, and what we had listed as Byakō is Byakou on the official website. I forgot to list that above. Imban 12:26, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia still uses revised Hepburn romanization to deal with romanizing Japanese words, so under that, Byakou should rightfully be Byakō.--  十  八  00:18, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
 * http://www.gurren-lagann.net/mecha/images/m_byakou.gif I meant that they actually romanized it like that on their own page. Imban 00:51, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
 * And I meant that there is still a guideline to use revised Hepburn romanization when romanizing names, no matter what the source material dictates. See WP:MOS-JA.--  十  八  00:55, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Actually, if source material gives you the names written in English, then you go with those names written in the source material. In this case, one uses the official transliterations. If that were not done, then this article would be titled "Tengen Toppa Guren Ragan" when we are given "Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann"— Ryūlóng ( 竜龍 ) 01:03, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Ryulong is right, plus, it's a proper noun. Proper nouns are (or at least should be) exempt from adhering to Wikipedia guidelines when there is an official romanization.203.59.6.151 (talk) 18:53, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

spoiler tag?
isnt it time we got a spoiler tag on this, so there we can write some real stuff in this? Nukleon 21:05, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
 * The presence or absence of a spoiler tag should not hinder you from adding content. There is general agreement that sections such as "plot", "episodes", and "characters" do not need explicit spoiler tags. Just don't write a complete plot summary for each character, please, regardless of tags =) -- Darkbane  talk 22:13, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
 * I concur. Wikipedia contains spoilers. Add them if you so choose, with or without the tag.  Leebo  T / C  22:43, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

Responce Section Added
I know, I know, ths series isn't even half over, but so far the responce has been incredible. People simply love this show. One only has to step into /m/echa on 4chan to understand.
 * I removed this section. The 2ch incident was notable in that a member of Gainax had to step down; 4chan's /m/ is not notable (4chan itself is a very minor niche in the Internet community to boot).--  十  八  10:29, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
 * While I strongly dissagree with all of your claims, I don't have the backing to undo the edit. I do, however, think there should be SOME mention of it's popularity. Perhaps you could, instead of completly deleting it, modify it to reflect this...
 * Well... it IS the third most popular Spring Series in 2ch despite the incident, with more positive posts and fanart than most other series other than Lucky Star and NanohaStrikerS in the same amount of time. It also appeared at number 6 in this month's NewType magazine popularity reader voting chart.
 * The Newtype reference would be fine to add, but adding stuff on 4chan and 2ch is unverifiable and unreliable.--  十  八  02:09, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
 * We may add the response section now as Gurren-Lagann's first DVD are selling awesomely well in Japan while the Pre-Orders for 2-4 are also climbing up online stores top 20s. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.153.104.140 (talk) 20:38, July 25, 2007

Kamina
Are we ever going to add in the fact that he dies in episode 7 (I believe it is 7, I forget off the top of my head?) Fattierob 00:03, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
 * It's at the end of episode 8. And I think it should be added, very briefly, as the last part of his bio, to indicate closure. Either that, or add it to episode 8 description instead of "terrible cost". -- Darkbane  talk 01:57, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Is it in his profile on the List of Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann characters page? If not it should be best there instead of on the main article.— Ryūlóng ( 竜龍 ) 02:07, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
 * It's not there. Good point though, it should be there and not on the main page. -- Darkbane  talk 02:42, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Or maybe we shouldn't spoil it for people, seeing as the show is still in production? --Tarage 07:57, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
 * There's no reason not to include spoilers, since Wikipedia contains spoilers. Kamina's death is central to advancing Simon's character and introducing Nia, so in that sense it is important and should be mentioned. -- Darkbane  talk 10:18, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I would say No. Wikipedia may contain spoilers, but they don't need to be glaringly obvious. A good idea would be to link to a new page totally about Kamina (Like Rob Lucci or Kaku from One Piece) and put a spoiler warning there.N-Denizen 21:16, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Err, both of those links seem to be redirects to Cipher Pol. Also, if it's not mentioned anywhere that Kamina dies, people are going to be wondering "wait, what happened to Kamina" when they look over the article... in a sense, we'd be unintentionally hiding information. -- Darkbane  talk 21:28, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I also agree with saying that Kamina died. It's a diservice to the readers who want the whole picture, and by now I believe most people know that Wikipedia will contain spoilers whether you like it or not.--  十  八  00:11, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

i really appreciate you guys throwing "Kamina dies!" right at the end of a character summary when I look up preliminary info on an anime I might want to watch. Thanks for ruining half the show wikipedia —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.37.69.211 (talk) 14:53, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

Thymilph
Had a question, about Thymilph's title. I noticed that "The Crasher" was used for it? His Japanese title is Dotou (怒涛) or literally Raging Wave which you could translate to "Maelstrom" roughly. While it's a guess as to what the writers wanted it to be, it seems to be closer to the intent than "Crasher" is. Any thoughts? ShoutaShura 09:00, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
 * hmm, I think it would be best to get as close to the original name as possible. Crasher and Maelstrom mean the same sort of thing, however, if Crasher isn't close enough to the Japanese name, change it to something like Maelstrom, until we get some sort of official name. Basically, do what you think is best, you may even want to mention the original Japenese name in the article itself. N-Denizen 16:39, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

Replaced old logo with official English one...
http://www.gainax.fr/logo/gurren.gif

Enjoy. --Starks 19:06, 7 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Wouldn't it be better to put the official poster there instead? N-Denizen 16:27, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Logo's are always better than anything else.--  十  八  01:11, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

A few new pages and links, organisation
Quoting Robtf:

''Character Surnames

http://www.gainax.co.jp/anime/gurren-lagann/chara.html

According to Gainax's official website, characters now have surnames (with the exception of Simon, Yoko, Viral and Old Coco). The names, however, just appear to be from their respective village names.

I'd also suggest moving Simon, Kamina, Yoko and Nia to a seperate "Main Characters" section, the Gurren Brigade section is far too congested and I'd suggest making it more organised. And also, the entity that has taken control of Nia calls itself the "Anti-Spiral"(in English, BTW). --Robtf 06:41, 23 July 2007 (UTC)''


 * Due to this suggestion, I have split up the characters into different sections and added them to the frontpage. If you notice any grave errors or mistakes, feel free to correct them.N-Denizen 10:39, 23 July 2007 (UTC)


 * You didn't split them into different sections, you split them into different articles. My suggestion was to put Simon, Kamina, etc under a different headline, which qualifies a seperate section on the contents table. REMERGE THE ARTICLES, they're too small seperate. Robtf 10:50, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

Ganmen
The 'Gunmen' section seems a little off to me. Every fansub refers to them as Ganmen, and they really have nothing to do with guns. I move for this section to be completely overhauled. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.41.10.20 (talk) 00:37, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Don't follow what the fansubs do. The official spelling found on the official website is Gunmen.-  十  八  04:54, 18 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Yes, they are called Gunmen. I don't know where the "solar powered battery" thing came from though.  In one episode, it's stated that beastmen need a certain amount of sleep daily, or else their bodies will start to break down.  Then recently, they were able to fly gunmen in an anti-spiral field by using electricity "like they did on earth".


 * I assume ganmen was meant to be 顔面. Both are face-related kanji. "Gunmen" is either a mistranslation or a localization decision. --Kajitani-Eizan 00:53, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

Names of Characters and Villages
Sorry. I just had to put these here.

http://img172.imageshack.us/my.php?image=scandf8.jpg - In this scan, there is a cover for the first volume of the manga (which has been running in Dengeki Comic Gao for some time now) and there's English text on it that spells the name of Simon and Kamina's village as "Giha".

http://img300.imageshack.us/my.php?image=rittonarexampleyn3.jpg - Fans have been able to but haven't finished putting together the alphabet present in the Gurren-Lagann series. However, even with this slight lack of knowledge, we are still quite able to read a sash that Yoko was wearing in episode 26 in a fantasy where she was "Miss Rittonar". Indeed, the sash reads that, and from that we can get that "Rittonar" is the official English spelling of リットナー. It's also apparent that this one works better than "Ritona", as Ritona would work better for リトナ.

There you have it, the names of the villages are infact officially "Giha" and "Rittonar".

On a sidenote, I'll be putting this same message in the talk pages for the primary and secondary character pages, and I will be correcting the names. Just a note, that the names of the characters are written in Western order, and Simon and Yoko don't have last names. Neither would Kamina for that matter, as he died before anybody took up village names as last names. Robtf 09:18, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

I dunno. Smells like original research to me, especially with the alphabet. Hatredcopter 10:31, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

So, uh, why remove all the pictures?
Now the article looks blank and boring. Look at Elfen Lied or List_of_FLCL_characters. What was the reasoning of removing this article's pictures but not others? 24.47.20.124 19:59, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
 * An anonymous editor removed them per WP:NFCC, which discuss how an overuse of fair use images may be damaging to the Wikipedia project and the articles themselves; specificially, point 3a in WP:NFCC about a minimal number of uses. So the rationale here, I believe, is that if a single image depiciting the main characters can be found, it would be better than having four individual pictures. On that note, I know of at least one promotional image which has Simon, Yoko, and Kamina, but I don't think it has Nia. Either way, I did not agree with the removal, but I didn't want to start an edit war over it, so I let it be. However, they also removed the Gunmen image, and the DS cover image, which can only be depicted with one image, so I'm replacing the lot of them.--  十  八  00:28, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

If a replacement is impossible, the old one's should be used. Look at the articles I pointed out. I don't see anyone ripping them out.24.47.20.124 02:32, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
 * You really shouldn't use the existence of other articles to justify a certain practice, as said article could be just as in the wrong. I think a preferable solution would be to find some sort of group character picture, if such an image exists.  Leebo  T / C  04:14, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Even if we can find a group image of the characters, there is no reason for the Gunmen or DS cover images to have been removed as they add to the article, and are relavent to what is written.--  十  八  08:42, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I was talking about the main character images, which don't include the Gunmen or DS cover.  Leebo  T / C  03:56, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes, but I was just pointing out that the user(s) who continually remove the images remove even the ones that cannot be expressed any other way, citing "fair use abuse" when there is none, and even one such editor having the gaul to vandalize the page as they are taking out the images, while at the same time citing this "fair use abuse" again; makes no sense at all.--  十  八  05:03, 5 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Those of you in favor of having the images here do not seem to have an understanding of the purpose of this project. It is to create a free content encyclopedia. This is expressed in the Mission, confirmed by the Wikimedia Foundation at Foundation:Resolution:Licensing policy and the local policies on this project are centered on this fundamental point. Lack of understanding of this basic principal does not constitute a reasoned argument to force fair use images onto articles in inappropriate ways. Using character images as was done here is completely unacceptable. If a character is notable enough to have an article in their own right, then an image is appropriate on that article (this is not a reason to go and create sub articles for every character by the way). The video game cover is similarly not acceptable. If the game is notable enough for it's own article then an image on that article would be appropriate. I agree with earlier comments; the presence of other articles which violate our core principles does not constitute an argument in favor of having this article violate the same principles. Whether or not an image has a fair use rationale only clear the image of concerns relative to WP:NFCC item #10(c). There are other significant hurdles an image must clear in order to be present on a given page. The images that have been abusing our fair use policies clearly do not clear those hurdles. If the edit warring on this article continues to attempt to force fair use images onto this article, blocks of editing privileges will be in order. Thank you, --Durin 11:13, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

So basically what I'm getting is that wikipedia has piss poor admins and mods? Jeez, way to put yourselves down. Rules are supposed to be enforced. If you enforce these rules(Which, by the way are ill defined in the first place and lead to quarrels like these) sporadically it sends out the wrong messages. Instead of writing you're long winded messages that could of been summed up in two, couldn't you be doing something more useful like making sure this is a Wikipedia-wide rule instead of a rule enacted seemingly randomly?24.47.20.124 18:14, 5 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Durin, like most admins, does not work that way. Instead of accepting the arguments of others who have abundant knowledge of things they're editing, the admins instead opt to type out large walls of text citing policy after policy ignoring what's logical and what isn't. Don't try to argue with them, it's like talking to nothing. Atleast sound vibrations bounce off of walls. - The Norse 22:58, 11 October 2007 (UTC)


 * I seriously DO NOT GET IT anymore. All I want to do is create an informative article, and images are a great way to do that. Adding a picture to a character is a good way of creating a decent article. Yet people keep ranting on about these complicated rationals and such, and make no effort to explain it simply. It just seems to be "remove image" for no reason at all - maybe that's not the case, but it seems like that. How can wikipedia expect to be a good website if images are constantly being removed from articles? Every single anime page is now a bland wall of text, and I am sick and tired of it. It does not serve the reputation of Wikipedia and it's usefulness, it just makes it seem like it's run by a bunch of bureaucratic old men who hate appealing layouts. It's absolutely past ridiculous. N-Denizen 18:25, 13 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Wikipedia is a free encyclopedia, images aren't free, if you don't like it discuss your on the the... Oh screw it. I was trying to be satiristic of what your generic admin would say but I refuse to sound like such a tool even in a joking manner. Wikipedia's anti-image policies don't make any level of sense, really. Every other site on the internet, including other Wikis have an abundance of fair-use images and it doesn't make any difference to them. It's not a space issue either, Wikipedia has a near limitless amount of storage and funding. It all comes down to Wikipedia wanting to be a "free encyclopedia" instead of a good one, which is just asinine. Every article on Wikipedia could have 1000 fair-use images and the site would still be free to use for your average internet goer. - The Norse 23:22, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

I've restored the images because consensus is clearly for keeping them and arguments suggesting they're forbidden by policy are weak. It's also unfortunate that an above editor decided to resort to threats when making his argument. And I'm pretty sure User: Hammersoft is a sock. --YellowTapedR 01:17, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes. Until a reason is found for their removal, they should there. Otherwise, i'll just consider it as vandalism and keep adding them back on. Just linking to a policy will not suffice - explanations are needed, and good ones. I'll get back to adding the rest as soon as possible. N-Denizen 19:36, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

The Comics
The first chapter of the Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann comics has been released. - (Nintendoneard 14:11, 9 October 2007 (UTC))
 * You mean manga, right? N-Denizen 18:16, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

Manga is Japanese for comic(s).203.59.253.197 (talk) 16:54, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

True, but Manag is used for differntiating between the two so as to avoid confusion. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.122.94.5 (talk) 12:48, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

Fair use
Please can everyone stop readding fair use images to this page. Further addions will result in blocks.  Ry an P os tl et hw ai te  20:28, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I kinda get it now, but I still don't know on what grounds the pictures were removed for. Apparently overuse, yet ALL images are removed, yet one picture with an eyecatch still remains. It's inconstent, and hardly anyone has actually nailed down the exact reason they keep removing them. What is so bad about having pictures for each main character? N-Denizen 21:14, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
 * The problem is they're all copyrighted so in an ideal world, we wouldn't have any. US law allows copyright material to be used here in extreme circumstances - but this unfortunately isn't an extreme circumstance. I see what you mean by inconsistancy, so I'll remove the last image aswell.  Ry an P os tl et hw ai te  21:30, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Since when has it been stated that these images should be used in extreme circumstances? Besides, how does US copyright law affect foreign media? —Preceding unsigned comment added by N-Denizen (talk • contribs) 21:44, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
 * As wikipedia is based in the US, we have abied by US copyright law. If you take a look at WP:FU and Durins page I linked to before on your talk, it explains why fair use cannot be used for the purposes of this article.  Ry an P os tl et hw ai te  21:48, 15 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Copyright laws for images are empty and useless for images like this. Hosting songs, movies, or images such as a painting that are actually worth money to the people you're thowing them to for free is a problem. Maybe a couple dozens large screen captures from a TV series or movie is a problem. A few tiny screenshots of a TV show, especially a foreign one, are not. It doesn't take astonishingly high levels of common sense to know that fair-use images like these will never in a million years have any sort of negative of effect on Wikipedia because it's impossible for US law to regulate such insignificant things. - The Norse 21:58, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

So, Ryan Postlethwaite is a lawyer, huh? No, a pharmacology student. Please stop acting like you're an expert on copyright law and stop threatening to block people if they don't agree with you. --YellowTapedR 21:48, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

Request for comment on inclusion/exclusion of fair-use images
Fixed section heading to match section param in RFCxxx template. DMcMPO11AAUK/Talk/Contribs 04:06, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

A few editors, chiefly the administrator User:Ryan Postlethwaite, keep removing images from this article on the basis of Wikipedia's policies on fair use content, most specifically WP:NFCC. Ryan has continuously removed the images on this basis, and has even gone as far as to threaten to block editors who try to add in the images again, seen here. Now, what really does not make any sense at all, is that all images (even ones that can only be depicted as a single image, such as this image of a group of Ganmen, or this image of the DS game cover) were removed. Now, I've looked over WP:NFCC, and as far as I can tell, all the criterian are followed by at least the two images I have supplied here, yet, they too were summarily removed on the basis of fair-use abuse. For the moment, I'll disregard the other images that were removed, but these two are specifically following the policies set out at WP:NFCC, so I cannot fathom how they are in any sort of abuse. So I would like to request a comment one the bahavior of certain admins, and if all of these images really do fail Wikipedia's policy on fair use, because the current admin's attempts at a blanket summary are not very convincing in the least.--  十  八  00:08, 16 October 2007 (UTC)
 * This is a very good explanation written by Durin as to why the fair use is not allowed on this page. It's not the images that is the issue, within reason, any copyrighted image may be classed as fair use, the problem we have is that it is not required on the page, especially in the quantities that have been used on this page. If there are one or two images that illustrate the whole article (not just part of it) then that would be OK, as long as there are no free alternatives.  Ry an P os tl et hw ai te  00:15, 16 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Wait, so let me get this straight. If, perhaps, a single image was to be procurred depicting the characters, then that would be okay to include and it wouldn't be removed? If that's the case, then why was the image of a group of Ganmen, or this image of the DS game cover removed, even though they were single images. Or for the moment, forget the DS cover, why not have the Gunmen image: it's a single image under fair use, with no free-use equivalent, and follows the policies set out at WP:NFCC; this is what I'm attempting to clarify, because it would seem that certain editors want to remove all images from this page, even ones that can only viable be depicting as a single image.--  十  八  00:21, 16 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Yeah, a single image would be fine to use to identify all the main characters. The problem is, on this article, you can't have galaries of the individual characters. To me, Image:Gurren Lagann - Generic Ganmen.jpg looks like the clearest image to use. The DS image is a game cover, so should only be used in an article that is about the game i.e. Not in this one. Go ahead and readd Gurren Lagann - Generic Ganmen.jpg, I simply reverted back to the first clean version I saw.  Ry an P os tl et hw ai te  00:25, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

A FAQ page created by a user, who is not a member of the foundation or a copyright lawyer, does not suffice as explanation. There is nothing in the actual policy that says the images on this article are inappropriate. --YellowTapedR 01:28, 16 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Durin's essay describes why we don't allow the types of fair use you had in this article. WP:FU is the reason why you can't have them, just the essay explains it better.  Ry an P os tl et hw ai te  01:31, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

I'm sorry, but that's Durin's extreme take on it, not the actual policy. It's his own spin. The policy does allow screenshots for purposes of discussing television and cinema, and says nothing about restricting pictures of fictional characters being on a single article. --YellowTapedR 01:46, 16 October 2007 (UTC)
 * You need to state how all the images meet the 10 individual criteria from WP:FU, they don't on this page.  Ry an P os tl et hw ai te  01:54, 16 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Inquiry: What exactly is the difference between having four small images and one large image to display the same subject matter? If it's not an issue with copyright abuse, there shouldn't be a problem. There is no existing single image that includes Kamina, Viral and Nia as far as I can see, yet they're three of the 4-6 primary characters in the series. They should both be depicted in this article or other character articles somehow, but this "no more than 1 image" deal prevents that. - The Norse 03:22, 16 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Individual pictures of them should only be put on the individual pages about them for an adequate fair use claim to be made. As this page is about more than one, any fair use picture used here should be appropriate for the whole article i.e. show more than one of the primary characters. It's not OK to have individual pictures as they don't help understand the context of the whole article.  Ry an P os tl et hw ai te  09:49, 16 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Cutting in. My question was more regarding the "List of TTGL ___ Characters" pages where only singular images are being allowed. Because no group image includes the aforementioned three characters together, more than one image should be allowed to adaquetly cover the contents of that article. Another issue is depictions of characters after the time-jump. While most of these depictions are pointless because they look basically the same, more than one image should be allowed for the lead character, Simon. Unlike most characters his design changes drastically as the series progressed. - The Norse 22:55, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

"It's not OK to have individual pictures as they don't help understand the context of the whole article." - i'm sorry, but this statement is absolutely stupid, It doesn't even make sense, and it's not even right.

The Article is meant to inform the reader of an anime. An anime has characters, and characters are the most important things of an anime. Therefore, it would be best to inform the reader of the character. Unlike in a book, where the character is a fabrication of words, in a TV show and almost everything else, the character is identified by a picture, or pictures. From that, we can draw the conclusion that the best way to inform the reader of the anime is to create the best possible way to present the characters, and despite how good a description is, an image will instantly tell the reader who the character is. Therefore, the main characters should get their own images. Maybe with secondary characters, we can make do with a large picture that presents all characters (which I have done). Despite this, we do not have an image that depicts every single character in the series, (for example, Kamina and Nia will never be in the same image together), so this problem can not be easily compromised.

Frankly, people's efforts to explain the removal of images has been pretty weak - it took them a long time to actually nail down why they were removed, by using unrelated articles, blanket articles, the opinions of other people, or twisting the interpretations of something for their own explanation. I understand how Fair-use images work, better than before, but that doesn't justify people's actions. Simply removing every image is not the best way to sort this problem, but seeing as nobody tries to sort it out themsleves, or try to come to a decent point which satsifies both sides, it irritates those who just wish to create a good-looking, informative article.

On top of that, this handling of Fair-use images is stupid in the first place. It's using over-cautious US law to monitor a Global website, and it's trying to deal with Screenshots (almost worthless in value), which are produced by a foreign company that probably don't care at all whether they are posted here or not, because they know that it won't damage their company one bit. Obviously, due to the attitudes of moderation staff and how they can't or won't make any effort to change it, it's unlikely that I can argue with it, and unlikely that I will be listened to.

Coming back to the real matter at hand, the moderation of this article has been overdone, and handled badly, with threats to those who do not comply to one person's wishes, which are a bit out of place to what the real problem is. All it really manages to achieve is a boring article and simultaneously annoying several people who worked hard on it. Very well, i will try to find some way of using a small amount of pictures, but which also convey enough information to create an article which meets decent standards. If complaint arise from that, then discuss it. Thank You.

N-Denizen 14:20, 16 October 2007 (UTC)
 * But pictures of individual characters do not illustrate the key topic of the article which is the anime itself. Individual character pages can have fair use pics of those individual characters - but a whole anime should not have fair use images showing those individual characters. Also, don't forget that wikipedia is the free encyclopedia that anyone can edit, and having non-free images when they are not required (thus reducing how free our project is (don't forget, fair use cannot be replicated off wikipedia like everything else that is licenced under the GFDL can be)) is detremental to our project.  Ry an P os tl et hw ai te  15:07, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

You're stretching. I've seen articles where there are way too many images, and this is not one of them. The way the self-appointed Fair Use Police deal with these situations is troubling. And does anyone know who Hammersoft is a sock for? --YellowTapedR 16:18, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Opening title
I've seen the name of the title switch between "Sky-Colored Days" and "Sky Blue Days" (which is the initial translation I made after it was written as "Sorairo Days" as the English title). Sorairo is the color "sky blue" at the Japanese Wikipedia and at Wiktionary. Overall, the translation of the idiom should be chosen over the literal translation of the two words separately.— Ryūlóng ( 竜龍 ) 00:50, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

Ganmen and Jiiha
The above three names are not the proper transcriptions of any of the items as stated in the official materials. — Ryūlóng ( 竜龍 ) 10:29, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Gunmen is used as the translation for ガンメン on the official website.
 * Giha is used as the translation for ジーハ in Japanese advertisements that use Latin letters.

ADV/Anime Network press release
Well, seeing as the first three episodes of Gurren Lagann are available for streaming on Anime Network's website, I thought I'd let you know of ADV's official press release here:

http://www.theanimenetwork.com/news.php?selectNewsID=144

From this, simply Gurren Lagann should be the article name, as well as the release date of the first DVD being February 26, 2008. --Geopgeop (T) 15:39, 9 January 2008 (UTC)


 * The link to buy the DVD is here as well:
 * http://www.advfilms.com/buy/anime/scifi/gurren-lagann/shop.aspx?categoryid=3559
 * This says that the first volume is named "Breakout". --Geopgeop (T) 15:44, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
 * This says that the first volume is named "Breakout". --Geopgeop (T) 15:44, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
 * This says that the first volume is named "Breakout". --Geopgeop (T) 15:44, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

Should the British flag incident be noted?
1 2

It seems like a fairly notable event pertaining to the series. - The Norse (talk) 00:21, 10 January 2008 (UTC)


 * I'll write up a summary of the incident at the end of the week if not done by then; I'll have to revise the one on lurkmore as well to make it more coherent. Does anyone know how to transpose the citation system here onto another wiki protocol? If not, where can I get that information? Terek (talk) 19:57, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

The little back round song
On Episode 25 kittan dies in the process of trying to destory the anti spiral machine. Howeve he was still there. There was a song playing faintly in the back does anyone know it? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.62.150.40 (talk) 14:54, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Extreme Gao-Gai-Gar & Gao-Gai-Gar Final Influence
Perhaps there should be mention of the extreme plot "influence" GGG had on this series? Elchoaro (talk) 13:44, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Without proper referencing, that would constitute original research and would not be able to be included in the article.--  十  八  23:04, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Not to mention GGG has no influence whatsoever on Gurren-Lagann. Both are inspired by much older Go Nagai classics. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.153.108.62 (talk) 15:35, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

Gurren Lagann Movie Site Open
http://www.gurren-lagann-movie.net/ 190.138.193.225 (talk) 16:59, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

Soundtracks & DVDs
here is a lot of info on them, if anyone feels like adding information to the "Music" part of the article it would be cool. castiboy (talk) 19:38, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
 * On that note, someone should also add something about the upcoming Parallel Works videos, especially now that the first one is out. -- 198.91.4.14 (talk) 16:49, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Dubs
so can someone give me the source for the dubs and also is there different dubs (bandai and boom zoom entertainment) or just one —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.6.251.156 (talk) 08:57, 6 July 2008 (UTC)


 * There are two dubs, one by ADV which was cancelled and a new one by Bandai/BangZoom which will be showing on SciFi soon. - Norse Am Legend (talk) 19:32, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

Article needs to be updated with official english names
Ex. Jeeha, Littner, official episode titles. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.40.195.30 (talk) 22:43, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

ANN article
Hi. I thought some of the regular contributors might be interested in a feature on TTGL that Anime News Network posted recently. ANN is a good citable source, so it might be useful. --Koveras ☭ 10:55, 8 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Nice source. I've made some use of it at the Simon (Gurren Lagann) article. Jagged 85 (talk) 22:59, 9 September 2008 (UTC)


 * ANN is not a credible source, please read up on Project Anime & Manga for why it has been discredited. None of the members there are "anime insiders" or "industry elites", merely vocal journalists at a popular website. Do not use such links and remove them if seen. 76.205.143.74 (talk) 09:54, 14 October 2008 (UTC)


 * No, you should read up on the animanga project, ANN is practically our first source for anime and manga articles (there's a good reason we even have a template for linking to ANN series articles). I'd sure like to know where you got the idea that we declared it "unreliable". — Dino guy  1000  16:38, 14 October 2008 (UTC)