Talk:Hall & Oates/Archive 1

Hall/Oates

 * Darly's last name is really HOHL, not Hall. He was a member of Guliver ( a folk/rock band), but John who lived in my home town of North Wales was a member of the Temptones, a soul group! John was also a championship wrester!

Vote to move Hall to Hall & Oates

 * No:
 * 1) D. F. Schmidt (talk) 09:37, 6 October 2005 (UTC)
 * 2) Furry 13:21, 16 October 2005 (UTC)
 * 3) Andylkl (talk) (contrib) 18:00, 23 November 2005 (UTC)
 * 4) Antares33712 20:33, 29 December 2005 (UTC) (like Patti Labelle vs. Labelle the group, he has had a career outside the group and that should be noted)
 * 5) Iamvered 21:26, 7 February 2006 (UTC) He's done solo work, and though not as successful, if Paul Simon, Gwen Stefani and Mick Jagger merit their own article, so does Daryl Hall... as long as it's not redundant.  It should only focus on his solo career, and direct to Hall & Oates for the collaboration.


 * Seeing no "yes" votes in four months of discussion, I have extensively pared down the Daryl Hall article to make it worthy of standing on its own. Iamvered 21:50, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

Discography
I have reformatted the singles per the Wikipedia Tables for Charts guideline and I would like to also work on the albums to make them look more like, say, Pet Shop Boys discography or Prince discography. In doing so, I suggest spinning off all of this information to a Hall & Oates discography page. Any opinions on/objections to this? -- eo 14:41, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Didn't see any objections (or approvals, for that matter), so I went ahead and created Hall & Oates discography. Hope this looks ok and frees up some space in this article. -- eo 13:15, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

1975 self-titled album
This article says that the self-titled 1975 album Daryl Hall & John Oates is known as "the silver album" and the cover image made Hall & Oates look like women. This is a reasonable description of the original cover design shown here, but the image of the album shown on Hall & Oates discography (Image:Hall Oates self-titled.jpg) does not match that. --Metropolitan90 05:33, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

I agree, but I have never seen the version in the discog section before. I believe it should be changed to the more popular silver version. Of course there are also two or more covers for VOICES and ROCK & SOUL Vol 1 also. Antmusic 00:35, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

Hall & Oates "were" a
I noticed someone changed the first line to "Hall & Oates WERE a..." Is there a wiki reason for this (like all articles must be in the past tense)?

Daryl & John are still a touring and recording band/duo. Antmusic 00:33, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

Suggestions
The page states "They sang a satirical tribute to Alan Colmes, as he would leave Fox News a month later."

Alan Colmes is still with Fox News. As stated elsewhere, Colmes left the "Hannity & Colmes" program aired on Fox News but he has remained with the network. Stating he left Fox News a month later I believe is incorrect. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.93.14.44 (talk) 10:49, 11 October 2011 (UTC)

Don't assume everybody already knows the basics. I came here looking for the answer to two questions and found nothing:
 * What is the breakdown of what Daryl Hall did in the group and what John Oates did in the group? Do they both sing lead like Simon & Garfunkel?  Are they a lead singer/lead guitarist duo like Plant/Page?  It seems this would be an obvious point of info to include.
 * What was their songwriting process? Did they write all their songs together?  Did they sometimes collaborate and sometimes contribute individual efforts?  How often did they go to outside writers completely?


 * The answers to your questions may rely on the time period. Both Daryl and John are singers and song writers.  We would have to find verifiable articles to talk about their process.  Looking at their writing credits, they are close to equal (they write one together, John writes one, Daryl writes one, so on and so on).  John Oates sings lead on about 25% of each of their albums (maybe less)... he almost always does background vocals.  They both play guitar.  Daryl sometimes plays piano/keyboard.  They both have solo albums also.Antmusic 19:53, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

Breaking Down Musical Barriers There was a longstanding idea in some parts of the music business that black music was made for black people and white music was made for white people. In recent years, the idea of labeling a song black or white has become an archaic movement. John Oates didn't like the idea of white and black charts for rating songs. "It is archaic, I mean, when you listen urban contemporary radio stations, there is so much crossover now that you almost can't talk in terms of a white chart and a black chart. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bcutler (talk • contribs) 02:25, 29 September 2016 (UTC)

Sound sample boxes
I removed all the sound sample boxes since all the files they contain no longer seem to exist. Triwbe 20:01, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Gym Class Heroes project
Hip-hop artists Gym Class Heroes are working on a Hall & Oates Mash-up project. Here is some info on MTV.com. It looks like they are re-doing their album As Cruel as School Children with 40 of Hall & Oates songs, mixed by DJ J.J. Brown. A current Google search for "Gym Class Heroes "mash up" hall oates" (without the outer quotes) has over 1,800 hits. It might be currently in the realm of "crystal balling" to add it to the page (because of all of the rights issues and red tape), but it will possibly be released mid to late 2008 if everything is cleared. Antmusic (talk) 15:53, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

BMI Icons award honor on May 20, 2008
This BMI article talks about their salute to Hall & Oates at their 56th Annual Pop Awards, and that Hall & Oates were named "BMI Icons" because of their "unique and indelible influence on generations of music makers." - Antmusic (talk) 15:54, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Photo
Could someone provide a photo of Hall & Oates together to replace the existing one of Oates solo? It looks strange to see him alone in an article about a long-running duo. --Utilizer (talk) 20:28, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

i was going to say the exact same thing, this looks ridiculous! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.208.193.162 (talk) 18:39, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

Requested move

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the proposal was no move. JPG-GR (talk) 15:28, 21 October 2008 (UTC)


 * If you look at the covers of every album the duo released, you'll noticed that each one has the band name listed as Daryl Hall & John Oates. THE AMERICAN METROSEXUAL (talk) 16:10, 17 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Oppose. The band is almost always called Hall & Oates, so by WP:NC that's what the article should be called too. Andrewa (talk) 21:21, 17 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Oppose – I don't listen to Hall & Oates, so I didn't even know those were their first names. I have only heard them referred to as "Hall & Oates", never as "Daryl Hall & John Oates". — Twas Now ( talk • contribs • e-mail ) 05:34, 18 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Oppose - This pair are commonly known as "Hall & Oates" and thus the article should be called that per WP:COMMONNAME. More likely is a change to "Hall and Oates" per MOS:TM, depending on whether ampersand is considered one of the "special characters that ... simply substitute for English words". Probably not though. --Rogerb67 (talk) 14:07, 18 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Oppose - I didn't even know what their first names were. I only have heard them called "Hall and Oates". 199.125.109.99 (talk) 00:32, 20 October 2008 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

GLEE
iN POPULAR CULTURE SOMEONE SHOULD ADD THE MASH UP GLEE MADE OF  YOU MAKE MY DREAMS COME TRUE AND I CANT GO FOR THAT

GLEE (2)
iN POPULAR CULTURE SOMEONE SHOULD ADD THE MASH UP GLEE MADE OF  YOU MAKE MY DREAMS COME TRUE AND I CANT GO FOR THAT  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.45.98.129 (talk) 02:46, 22 November 2011 (UTC)

No, the episode of Glee did not "take on a life", it is not notable, and its somewhat redundant, as if we note that H&O had many top 10 hits, and a long career, and often used in pop culture, radio, movies, tv shows.. then it can be assumed that a show that matches to that ,like Glee,  also used H&O. Its not that Glee owed anything specific to H&O, nor H&O derives anything specific from Glee.. For example, if a H&O album returned to  any notable level of sales, that might be specific. If the radio stations suddenly said "From no one, every wednesday is H&O day" that would be special.. nothing special observable, rererrable resulted. I don't see the kids at high school demanding H&O in unison.. one might say "I never heard of H&O.. nice" .. so what ? one out of 100,000 ?

58.164.7.28 (talk) 00:45, 17 June 2014 (UTC)

"white" act?
The statement on the main page says ""I Can't Go for That (No Can Do)" was one of the few songs ever recorded by a white act to reach Number One on both the R&B and the pop charts." This statement is beyond silly and should be removed. Oates has lineage from Spain, and this is considered to be part Latino, as most Latinos are derived from Spain/Portugal. Not only that, but Oates has lineage as part of "Moors", which is Middle Eastern. White and Middle Eastern are NOT the same thing. Oates is tri-racial, not "white". Stopde (talk) 22:42, 2 May 2013 (UTC)


 * For what it is worth, it is possible to be both 'white' and 'Latino'. Latino is a cultural/linguistic categorisation, not an ethnic/'racial' one. Not that it matters, because Latino's are from Latin America, not Spain (and according to our article on Oates, his mother was Italian). As for Middle-Easterners being 'white', there is no consensus over this. Nothing you have said can possibly exclude Oates being described as 'white' - though I'd prefer it if it was sourced. I'll see what I can find. AndyTheGrump (talk) 14:10, 27 July 2013 (UTC)

Requested move 2

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: no consensus to move the page at this time, per the discussion below. Dekimasu よ! 00:03, 2 November 2014 (UTC)

Hall & Oates → Daryl Hall and John Oates – I know this has been voted on already, but I do think the result was wrong. The name of this act is Daryl Hall and John Oates and cannot be disputed. COMMONNAME cannot apply in this instance and surely the real name is preferable where possible. Every album/single they released is under this name - and we can't get anymore official than that. Taking a look at some very reliable sources we have this, this, this and especially this. If greater reliable sources can be brought forward that say "Hall and Oates" then I'll concede and only then can COMMONNAME come into play. Besides, as long as Hall and Oates/Hall & Oates are redirects, I don't see a problem to move.--Tuzapicabit (talk) 00:50, 26 October 2014 (UTC) Tuzapicabit (talk) 01:04, 26 October 2014 (UTC)


 * Oppose. Rolling Stone The Guardian New York Times Washington Times Spin CBS -- Calidum  02:32, 26 October 2014 (UTC)


 * Support per nom. Wikipedia typically titles musical group articles by the name they are credited under rather than a shorthand form, even if the shorthand is quite common (e.g. Electric Light Orchestra, not ELO, Lisa Lisa and Cult Jam, not Lisa Lisa).  —  AjaxSmack   05:54, 26 October 2014 (UTC)


 * Support. I came here thinking that I would oppose, but then I looked at the articles for their various albums, and found that virtually all of them use the full names to identify the artists. bd2412  T 16:42, 26 October 2014 (UTC)
 * I can't find any original albums that use "Hall & Oates". —  AjaxSmack  01:29, 27 October 2014 (UTC)
 * There are some, like Big Bam Boom, where the cover art drastically diminishes their first names. bd2412  T 16:01, 27 October 2014 (UTC)
 * True (and same with Live at the Apollo) but the LP label still gives the full names and it charted on Billboard under "Daryl Hall & John Oates". —  AjaxSmack  02:35, 28 October 2014 (UTC)


 * Oppose -- Perhaps not a full throated oppose since it does seem that their work is actually released under the name being proposed. But the current title is overwhelmingly the common name, both in reliable sources and in common discussion.--Yaksar (let's chat) 01:41, 28 October 2014 (UTC)
 * Oppose -- For non-English websites, a full name is possible. Everybody in English-speaking countries know "Hall & Oates"; well, not everyone knows the famous duo. Radio stations currently use "Hall & Oates". --Gh87 in the public computer (talk) 21:01, 29 October 2014 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 3 one external links on Hall & Oates. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20100830090407/http://www.biography.com:80/articles/John-Oates-12986499 to http://www.biography.com/articles/John-Oates-12986499
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20061225114245/http://billboard.com/bbcom/chart_beat/bonus.jsp to http://www.billboard.com/bbcom/chart_beat/bonus.jsp
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20081214053743/http://www.hulu.com:80/watch/48436/the-daily-show-with-jon-stewart-thu-dec-11-2008 to http://www.hulu.com/watch/48436/the-daily-show-with-jon-stewart-thu-dec-11-2008

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.

Cheers. —cyberbot II  Talk to my owner :Online 00:25, 17 October 2015 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 2 one external links on Hall & Oates. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20101212102724/http://allmusic.com/artist/hall-oates-p4427/biography to http://allmusic.com/artist/hall-oates-p4427/biography
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20100611203425/http://www.michaelmoore.com:80/words/mike-in-the-news/los-lobos-and-hall-oates-join-arizona-boycott-club to http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/mike-in-the-news/los-lobos-and-hall-oates-join-arizona-boycott-club

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.

Cheers.—cyberbot II  Talk to my owner :Online 20:14, 4 January 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Hall & Oates. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added tag to http://www.biography.com/search/article.do?id=12986499
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090329041412/http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/entertainment_music_blog/2009/03/hall-oates-on-dancing-with-the-stars.html to http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/entertainment_music_blog/2009/03/hall-oates-on-dancing-with-the-stars.html

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 10:51, 28 October 2017 (UTC)

Albums sales
Pet Shop Boys are a duo and they've sold 100 million records

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pet_Shop_Boys

"Hall and Oates have sold an estimated 40 million records, making them the best selling music duo in history."

2605:E000:100B:73:29A1:786D:69C7:300C (talk) 09:24, 4 July 2019 (UTC)

Sophisti-pop (1980s)
It would appear that Hall & Oates pioneered sophisti-pop in the 1980's due to their fusion of pop, soul, jazz, and new wave amongst their 1980's albums. Anyone have a source for the sophisti-pop genre? You can find strong elements of this genre on tracks such as Maneater and I Can't Go For That (No Can Do). Any help would be greatly appreciated! Moline1 (talk) 19:11, 30 May 2020 (UTC)

While I do agree, we need a source for that. Dark Lord Thomas Pie (talk) 16:24, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

Requested move 9 January 2021

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. 

The result of the move request was: No consensus to move. WP:COMMONNAME has not been shown for the proposed name  (t &#183; c)  buidhe  00:16, 17 January 2021 (UTC)

Hall & Oates → Daryl Hall and John Oates – Per previous discussion. The current title is a colloquialism that is not used on any of the duo's output. —  AjaxSmack 07:43, 9 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Pinging previous discussants

I'm not sure that more casual sources should be given the same weight as Apple, Spotify, or Billboard.Nikki Lee 1999 (talk) 04:04, 13 January 2021 (UTC) Spotify and Apple is not "self published". Nor is Billboard. Nikki Lee 1999 (talk) 04:05, 13 January 2021 (UTC) They were wrong. And the problem should have been fixed back then. Nikki Lee 1999 (talk) 04:04, 13 January 2021 (UTC)
 * The following pages are also affected: Hall & Oates discography, Do It for Love (Hall & Oates album), H2O (Hall & Oates album), Home for Christmas (Hall & Oates album), Private Eyes (Hall & Oates album), Voices (Hall & Oates album), War Babies (Hall & Oates album), The Early Years (Hall & Oates album), The Singles (Hall & Oates album), Greatest Hits Live (Hall & Oates album), Live at the Apollo (Hall & Oates album), Do It for Love (Hall & Oates song), Maneater (Hall & Oates song), Rich Girl (Hall & Oates song), Say It Isn't So (Hall & Oates song), She's Gone (Hall & Oates song), So Close (Hall & Oates song), Wait for Me (Hall & Oates song), Category:Hall & Oates albums, Category:Hall & Oates songs Category:Hall & Oates members, Category:Hall & Oates compilation albums and Category:Hall & Oates live albums. (CC) Tb hotch ™ 07:59, 9 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Oppose Per WP:COMMONNAME. The majority of RS use the current name, we go with the reliable sources rather than interviews with the artists in question.ZXCVBNM (TALK) 11:20, 9 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Support "Daryl Hall and John Oates" has always been how they are credited. Trivialist (talk) 11:25, 9 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Support Not only should we use their real name as per albums and singles, there's a fairly definitive source here that uses it as well: BillboardTuzapicabit (talk) 12:06, 9 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Oppose per WP:COMMONNAME and WP:CONCISE. Self-published "official" names shouldn't matter on Wikipedia. —&hairsp;BarrelProof (talk) 16:10, 9 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Oppose per WP:COMMONNAME. It should be noted that similar move requests were rejected in 2008 and 2014. -- Calidum  21:45, 9 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Support WP:COMMONNAME is not about slang or informal shorthand. Hall'n'Oats have always been formally known my the name "Daryll Hall & John Oates" in all official and formal material. Same reason we don't have an article called "Biggie Smalls". Nikki Lee 1999 (talk) 04:04, 13 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Oppose. Very clear common name. -- Necrothesp (talk) 11:57, 14 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Support They are a performing duo, a 'band' if you will. the name of the band is Daryl Hall & John Oates, and they have ALWAYS presented themselves as such. Simple as that. They decide the name they trade under. We don't.Robbmonster (talk) 13:01, 16 January 2021 (UTC)

Re-opening requested move 15 September 2021

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. 

The result of the move request was: not moved. Clear consensus not to move, as nothing has changed since the previous RM(s). (closed by non-admin page mover) Lennart97 (talk) 17:41, 22 September 2021 (UTC)

Hall & Oates → Daryl Hall and John Oates – I'd like to re-opening requested move & vote in favor. I can't believe it hasn't be done before either. The pair have themselves been outspoken about this. They're Daryl Hall and John Oates. If the Wikipedia is to be a canonical reference, it should recognize that. Sorry I wasn't around earlier.

Sure, I understand all the disputative policies but it's just plain wrong, decided by people who apparently don't know anything about the subject matter.

That would make it at least 5 to 4.

Thanks.

--82.132.220.245 (talk) 17:02, 15 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Oppose. As per the previous discussions, WP:COMMONNAME overrides the official name per Wikipedia's title policy. I'm sorry you feel that way about Wikipedia's title policy. It does not matter if you or I are very familiar about the subject matter, or if they themselves would rather be credited with their full names. All that matters is what most third-party reliable sources call them. So if there is evidence to the contrary now in 2021, let's see it. Zzyzx11 (talk) 03:13, 16 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Oppose and suggest speedy close: This same proposal was considered and rejected recently, and at least twice before that. No new developments justify going through that again now. —&#8288;&#8202;&#8288;BarrelProof (talk) 05:01, 16 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Oppose per User:BarrelProof. 162 etc. (talk) 19:21, 18 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Oppose. Nothing has changed since the last RM. Still the clear common name, whatever their own preference. -- Necrothesp (talk) 12:12, 22 September 2021 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

P. Diddy, Biggie Smalls, Lady Antebellum
All of these are common names, and yet none of these have a wikipedia article titled after them. Because they aren't the correct name. WP:COMMONNAME has never overrode using an artists actual name. So why should it here?

And every formal source will refer to them by their formal name. Only casual sources will call them by the duo's nick name.

Nikki Lee 1999 (talk) 21:49, 29 October 2021 (UTC)

Name (again)
Maybe correct the title Hall & Oates for what they actually call themselves: Daryl Hall & John Oates, as Hall & Oates is more of a nickname. 24.37.160.210 (talk) 17:07, 29 December 2022 (UTC)

Inaccurate title for the band
As said here on the page: Though they are commonly referred to as Hall & Oates, Hall has been adamant about the duo being called Daryl Hall & John Oates – its official name. They have been credited on albums as Daryl Hall & John Oates (or Daryl Hall John Oates) on all of their US releases And here: The duo never liked to be referred to as "Hall & Oates". In an interview with Esquire, Oates said, "There isn't one album that says Hall and Oates. It's always Daryl Hall and John Oates, from the very beginning. People never note that. The idea of 'Hall and Oates', this two-headed monster, this thing, is not anything we've ever wanted or liked."[8] In a 2015 interview, Oates noted that "it's a horrible name" and that "it was a totally conscious decision" not to be known as "Hall & Oates". "We didn't want to be the Everly Brothers, or Loggins & Messina, or whatever."

In an interview with The Mercury News, Hall explained that "the reason we've always insisted on our full names is because we consider ourselves to be two individual artists. We're not really a classic duo in that respect." Plus, it is only a nickname what many people refer them but not the actual name. Many bands have nicknames and you don’t go and title their page as such. Exemple G n’ R (Guns N’ Roses) The Hip (The Tragically Hip) The Stones (The Rolling Stones) The Foos Foo Fighters) The Fab Four (The Beatles) etc. 38.133.45.67 (talk) 20:52, 29 December 2022 (UTC)


 * Feel free to read the sections immediately above. We don't go by "official" names, we go by common names and their nickname is way more common than their official name. (CC) Tb hotch ™ 23:40, 29 December 2022 (UTC)

Name (again 2)
Can we just stick to the facts? The page should be titled Daryl Hall & John Oates because it was they are called and it is was is written on all of the albums. Maybe name it Daryl Hall & John Oates (Hall & Oates) you precise already in the article that Hall & Oates is as what they are commonly known. Plus the first two parts of the article are about what the name is not: Hall & Oates. 38.133.45.67 (talk) 14:28, 30 December 2022 (UTC)


 * Can you stop asking the same over and over again? Open a WP:RM if you disagree. (CC) Tb hotch ™ 00:04, 31 December 2022 (UTC)

Move protection
I have placed extended confirmed move protection on the article for two weeks. Repeated moving against consensus is not permitted. Cullen328 (talk) 00:07, 31 December 2022 (UTC)

Name (again 3)
How about changing the page title to: Daryl Hall & John Oates (Hall & Oates) ? Danzigthecat (talk) 19:33, 9 January 2023 (UTC)


 * You were informed about this in your talk page here. If you still disagree, you can open a WP:Requested move discussion, where you must provide evidence (not fallacies) on why Daryl Hall & John Oates is to be used. Before opening such discussions, it is highly recommended to learn about our titling policy. (CC) Tb hotch ™ 06:14, 12 January 2023 (UTC)

Proposal to Change the Article's Title
Surely this article's titles should be changed to "Daryl Hall & John Oates" and the redirect reversed. I must admit, until reading this article, I thought that they were officially called "Hall & Oates" - but they aren't.

A verified source within the article itself states that they were never officially referred to as "Hall & Oates". In fact, according to the quote, from John Oates himself, they actively dislike and distance themselves from the epithet "Hall & Oates".

"It's always Daryl Hall and John Oates, from the very beginning. People never note that. The idea of 'Hall and Oates,' this two-headed monster, this thing, is not anything we've ever wanted or liked."

Bloodholds (talk) 01:09, 22 July 2017 (UTC)


 * They're commonly known as Hall & Oates. -  FlightTime  ( open channel ) 01:25, 22 July 2017 (UTC)


 * Sure, but I agree with the others that "Hall & Oates" is simply an inaccurate name. It would be like having a Wikipedia article titled Biggie Smalls or JFK. Just because the nickname is more common than the real name doesn't make the nickname the real name. Nikki Lee 1999 (talk) 19:41, 17 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Yes, but they're always officially billed as "Daryl Hall and John Oates" (or "Daryl Hall  John Oates" in a few cases). Trivialist (talk) 01:37, 22 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Indeed they are, but being commonly known by an inaccurate name doesn't make it correct. Referencing your link, it says: "Editors should also consider the criteria outlined above. Ambiguous or inaccurate names for the article subject, as determined in reliable sources, are often avoided even though they may be more frequently used by reliable sources." Bloodholds (talk) 20:20, 1 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Normally, I'm all for going with "officialness," as Wikipedia is an encyclopedia after all. However, this, I feel, is one of those cases where, despite how they self-identify, they're known to the masses as Hall & Oates.  This isn't just 'street slang,' the term is so pervasive on radio, on TV, in the music industry, that they even had to formally address it.  The phrase Hall & Oates is a long-established reality; even if they themselves didn't chose the name, it was chosen for them, long before Wikipedia came along.  I say keep the article as is.  Hall & Oates is a reality, despite what two people named Hall and Oates think.  73.194.85.220 (talk) 18:42, 15 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Again, so is Biggie Smalls and JFK. It feels random and inconsistent that Wikipedia would go with a nickname for Daryl Hall and John Oates when we almost never use nicknames in titles. Not to mention it feels pretty unprofessional as well. Nikki Lee 1999 (talk) 18:24, 1 December 2018 (UTC)

Many times in our language and society, a "factoid" is created that is a fabricated tale meant to be interpreted as being a fact due to ignorant repetition of the falsehood. So if we as a community of editors decide to create a "factoid" based on a falsehood, should that take precedence over the fact? It's like Liberty Valance; i.e., "When the facts become legend, print the legend". The act Daryl Hall & John Oates have an official legal name, which is just that wording, and the use of "Hall & Oates" is strictly a colloquial term. There's nothing wrong with using it colloquially or referring to it in the article or even using it in the article as an abbreviation, but as far as the genuine factual name of the act, it's "Daryl Hall & John Oates", and if Wikipedia is going to try & be a real encyclopedia instead of a fan website where fact is determined by fiat & groupthink opinions rather than empirical evidence, then the facts no longer matter anywhere here and this article & Wikipedia itself ceases to be what it was intended to be --- encyclopedic.PhilOSophocle (talk) 20:58, 6 January 2018 (UTC)

I imagine it would take some effort to switch the article to be titled "Daryl Hall & John Oates" and put the redirect at "Hall & Oates" instead of the other way around as it is now, but somebody should do it as it represents that fact, not opinion or falsehoods.PhilOSophocle (talk) 21:02, 6 January 2018 (UTC)
 * I put forward the last proposal to change the name to Daryl Hall and John Oates. The result was split 50:50, so no consensus to change. I still think the official name (ie. Daryl Hall and John Oates) should be used. They are only commonly known as Hall and Oates because it's easier to say, but it's not actually their name.Tuzapicabit (talk) 19:32, 30 April 2018 (UTC)


 * Another reliable source is Hall stating they were always "Daryl Hall & John Oates" not "Hall & Oates" during The Big Interview With Dan Rather on AXSTV from 2015. I agree that Wiki should be accurate not pop culture. The article name should be changed so it's correct with the abbreviated name included in the intro as it is now and redirect instead. Consensus isn't needed for facts. 2600:1702:1690:E10:AC1C:1F50:6C33:7570 (talk) 13:27, 28 May 2018 (UTC)

I can't believe that this has not been done yet. It is a fact that the band's name is Daryl Hall & John Oates. The band members have indicated this through various media interviews. I don't think we vote on facts, facts stand as facts. The page should be Daryl Hall & John Oates with Hall & Oates re-directing here. This is suppose to be an encyclopedia, and has an obligation to be accurate; I would suppose. In addition, It should be changed in the articles relating to the band as well... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:569:74DE:DA00:D40E:830A:FA80:2553 (talk) 19:52, 3 December 2020 (UTC)
 * It has not been done because nobody has requested a move. As simple as that. (CC) Tb hotch <big style="color: #555555;">™ 20:56, 3 December 2020 (UTC)

The partners both have pretty strong opinions on the name. I have added quotes on this to the article in the Names section and opened a move request below. — <span style="border:1px solid #93010b;background:#ef0000;padding:2px;color:#efe6e6;text-shadow:black 0.2em 0.2em 0.3em; font-family: Georgia;"> AjaxSmack 07:42, 9 January 2021 (UTC)

I agree it should stick to the facts. Creedence Clearwater Revival are mostly referred as CCR, yet it is not their name. Danzigthecat (talk) 19:36, 9 January 2023 (UTC)


 * Whataboutism is not an argument. (CC) Tb hotch ™ 05:56, 12 January 2023 (UTC)
 * It isn't whataboutism – that isn't a question of ethics ('whataboutism' is an attempt to defend something by referring to something similar and equally unethical.) This is a straightforward comparison. And having just stumbled on this thread, I absolutely cannot understand why this entry isn't titled 'Darryl Hall and John Oates', which would very clearly be more correct. 80.208.64.143 (talk) 08:54, 18 March 2023 (UTC)
 * We do not name articles based on "Ethics". (CC) Tb hotch ™ 18:41, 26 March 2023 (UTC)