Talk:Haughley

Haughley
Attempts to create an accurate account of the history of the village of Haughley in England Vanfluff (talk) 11:34, 9 July 2016 (UTC)

Unencyclopaedic material to be worked on
"The village has evidence of neolithic, pagan, Iron Age, roman and Saxon settlements and is mentioned in the Doomsday Survey of 1086 as Hagala being held by Hugh de Montfront from the Saxon Lord Guthmund. It was first mentioned in the will of Leofgifu a Saxon noblewoman in 1040."

"Haughley Parish Church is an example of an early English medieval Church on the site of a Norman chapel which was in turn established on an area noted for pagan settlement and sacrifice. It is dedicated to the 'Assumption of the Virgin Mary' and a Toy fair was held annually in August to celebrate this until the 1870s. It has a South tower c1200 which contains five bells dating back to the medieval period. A flagpole atop the tower was gifted by the Palmer family in 2002 for the Queens Golden Jubilee."

Haughley is famous for its Castle; it is considered to be one of the best preserved Motte & Bailey castles in England with impressive baileys and ditches of up to 80 feet. It was built by Hugh de Montfront following the conquest of 1066 over the previous footprint of the fortified hall of the Saxon Lord Guthmund who was killed at the Battle of Hastings. The site extends to over seven acres and consists of a Keep, Inner Bailey and Outer bailey with a market place to the east; an earlier Saxon market stood within the inner bailey The outer bailey has traces of Neolithic, Iron Age and Roman use and the escarpment and ditch is still clearly visible  Initially of wood and then of stone the foundations are over 7 feet thick and circular;  it is estimated the height of which would have been around sixty feet. During the restoration and clearance of 2010 by Suffolk County Council and the Archaeological Unit impressive carved stone and other masonry were recovered from the Keep. The Castle was in the gift of the Crown and descended to Henry de Essex before being seized by the Crown again in 1163. By October 1173 it was held for the Crown by Ranulf de Broc. Further to Follow. The Outer Bailey begun to be backfilled from the 1200s onwards Haughley had at one time three windmills; one at Haughley Green owned by the Andrews family and one at Haughley Mere owned by the Palmer family. Standing at the top of a Station Road, the third and last a post mill, was erected in 1811 with the aid of troops marching to the Napoleontic wars in the Low Countries. In 1937 a trust was formed with the owners, the Palmer family, and a group of enthusiasts to restore it however in 1943 it was burnt to the ground by vandals.

A large provisions market was formally established in 1231 by charter and fell into disuse in the 16th Century. An older Saxon market had stood in a Duke Street. Since 1855 the Market Place however has been the village green. A large common of 120 acres at Haughley Green was enclosed in the 1840s. In 1710 a fire devastated the "town of Hawleigh" and it is said Stowmarket rose from the ashes; a petition to Queen Anne to raise relief was sent across the country.

Haughley was described in the 1930s by the Daily Mail as the "feverpit of the kingdom". In reference to the open channeled sewers either side of the main street before sanitation was brought to the village. This was part of a legal case with the controversial Vicar of the time Rev Walter Grainge White and the district council. He instigated and allowed himself to be sued in various cases which made case law from the Haughley sanitation case to the Haughley Church Electoral roll case. His forthright and libellous public letters, meetings and spats together with his anti gossip squads "the apostles" brought controversy and violence at times to meetings and confrontations to the extent of refusing to allow the Bishop to access the church, denying flowers to be laid on peoples graves and the removal of people from the church and changing the Lords Prayer. A favourite of Fleet Street, reporters would call regularly from here to their offices with the latest news for print. Despite all this he achieved water, sanitation, electricity, council housing and a bus service for the village.

Haughley possessed many Inns and Public Houses. Today the Kings Arms Inn is the last remaining at the centre of the village and run by Gordon Lambert. It has been a running since at least 1617. Others in the village but now closed have been... The Fox, The White Horse, The Railway Tavern, The Crown, The Globe, The Angel, The Mulberry Tree, The Hen, The Cock as well as many other beer houses.

Palmers Bakery is one of the oldest and most famous bakeries in the country established c1752 and run by the Palmer Family since 1869. The Palmer family arrived here in Tudor times and the Bakery still uses the ancient brick ovens to bake their bread in the medieval bake house. It is one of few businesses that can trace the commercial use of the site back to the Saxon times of King Edgar. The Bakehouse sits on the site of two ancient market stalls described within its deeds as "two stalls beneath the marketplace of Hawley". The Milling, Corn and Pig merchants side of the business was closed in the 1980s with the family retaining the farm and property arm of the business in Haughley and in Northern Ireland. The Bakery was threatened with closure in 2007 when Haughley Parish Council attempted to stop access and services to the business under a Victorian act of parliament. After a public campaign and meeetings with over 10,000 supporting the business  the Parish Council backed down faced with legal action by the business together with damages

"The Manor of Haughley, now stripped of any of its rights and powers, is correctly called Haughley with its Members. A controversial figure with many villagers the title was purchased for £300 by Jeffery Bowden in 1977 when he moved here from the east end of London before setting up a Bed & Breakfast business.  The manor formerly had the power of 'oyer et terminer' and the gallows were neae the site of the current Quarries Cross junction. The Abbot of Hailes in the west country was required to provide a ladder for the gallows prior to the reformation on Lubberlow field - old English for the hill of spirits where the gallows stood. Haughley was a lordship held after the Norman Conquest by Hugh I de Montfort.  Later it fell into the king's hand, and in 1187 Henry II granted it to Geoffrey, count of Perche. On his death in 1202, King John granted it to his illegitimate son, Geoffrey, who died in 1205 without heirs. Further to follow"


 * Sources marked as unreliable? These offline sources, how did you determine that they were unreliable ? Zpeopleheart (talk) 12:32, 9 July 2016 (UTC)


 * If there's no evidence given of publication, or author, it is questionable if they are a published, reliable source. Hchc2009 (talk) 12:35, 9 July 2016 (UTC)
 * For example, a family archive. Muffled Pocketed  12:38, 9 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Zpeopleheart, I've reverted back to a safe version; please don't remove tags etc. asking for more details of a source without dealing with the issue. A reference citing "Various open letters, parish magazine,newspaper articles minutes of the Parish Council 1929 to 1955 - Palmer Family Archive & Suffolk Record Office", for example, has obvious problems. Which letters? Which newspapers? etc. I'd advise perhaps working something up in user space first. Hchc2009 (talk) 12:43, 9 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Looks like it's important enough to breach WP:3RR over; although I did say I'd give him an hour to rectify the page. But I admittedly didn't mean just spend an hour removing maintenace templates... Muffled Pocketed  12:50, 9 July 2016 (UTC)

Unreliable sources
How did the editors determine so many of thes e sources. As unreliable? Most are not on line. Does a library have them? Zpeopleheart (talk) 13:03, 9 July 2016 (UTC)

Clean-up
I have spent a few hours trying to tidy up this article, checking some of the references where they are online, adding a couple of new ones, and generally trying to make it more encyclopaedic and easier to read. Could do with some more pairs of eyes reviewing what's there now. Paul W (talk) 16:41, 7 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Thank you, this is looking much better! I admit I'd prefer every statement (or at least paragraph) sourced, but it's a great improvement. With a little expansion (maybe via the VCH?) this could be a nice little good article, what say you? SerialNumber  54129 ...speculates 08:59, 8 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the message . Happy to help with a push towards GA status. I've carried on expanding and citing.... Paul W (talk) 15:04, 8 December 2017 (UTC)

Merge Haughley Green
I suggest that it might be appropriate to merge the Haughley Green stub into the now quite substantial article about Haughley, which includes all the assertions made about Haughley Green. Paul W (talk) 09:14, 10 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Support, since even the Haughley Green article admits it is not a distinct settlement, being only "part of the village of Haughley." So a subsection here (level III?) would be appropriate.  >SerialNumber  54129 ...speculates 11:01, 10 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Support - as per Serial Number. Hchc2009 (talk) 11:55, 10 December 2017 (UTC)

Having already merged the Haughley Green article content, I have now redirected Haughley Green to Haughley. Paul W (talk) 08:58, 11 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Thanks, job well done.  >SerialNumber  54129 ...speculates 12:55, 11 January 2018 (UTC)

Palmers
A new addition is a little confusing:


 * "William Palmer died in 1915 to be succeeded by his sons William Edwart Gladstone Palmer who died in 1968. His son Roy Palmer died in 1989. Today the business is run by Kenneth Palmer and his son, former lawyer Kieron Palmer."

Is Roy the brother of William Edwart (correct spelling?), or his son (and the grandson of William Palmer)? What relation is Kenneth Palmer to these? Some clarity is needed about the generations, I think. And it also needs to be supported by reliable independent sources. Paul W (talk) 18:40, 18 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Some clarity provided.Paul W (talk) 21:00, 18 February 2018 (UTC)

A new addition describes William Palmer as "the Liberal founder and political campaigner for Thomas Paine" (citing Stowmarket Business Family History, page 89) but THE Thomas Paine died in 1809. The Liberal party was founded in 1859 but I can find no mention of Palmer being involved.Paul W (talk) 14:49, 27 February 2018 (UTC)