Talk:Hermes program

External links modified
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I have just added archive links to 1 one external link on Hermes (missile program). Please take a moment to review my edit. You may add after the link to keep me from modifying it, if I keep adding bad data, but formatting bugs should be reported instead. Alternatively, you can add to keep me off the page altogether, but should be used as a last resort. I made the following changes:
 * Attempted to fix sourcing for http://www.ksc.nasa.gov/kscoralhistory/documents/ngray.pdf

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Cheers.—cyberbot II  Talk to my owner :Online 06:44, 29 March 2016 (UTC)

Department of Disappeared Information
It is too bad that much information of use to anyone trying to research this extremely important if equally obscure program seems lost when the original article was redirected to this stub.

Though I have put immense research into the entire Hermes program (and others such as Thumper, Wizard and Bumblebee) I am acutely aware others may turn up very important material which eluded me. I consider it good scholarship to make others aware of leads, prospective and futile, which may or may not warrant inclusion in the article.

There is little published material as secrecy obscured, and subsequent developments overshadowed, the Hermes program.

The Army's early missiles, Corporal and Nike, were not part of Hermes. They were ad hoc weapons programs which involved much research. Hermes was a research program which often was intended to eventually produce weapons.

As it were Redstone, and thus America's first satellite launcher and Manned space flight, were direct descendants of Hermes C-1.

So Hermes is just a stub. ..

There is a direct line between Hermes and the first designed for the purpose Satellite Launch Vehicle (the GE engine for the NRL Vanguard 1st stage).

There is also a direct line from Hermes to the large solid rocket motors common today.

It is extremely difficult to write for Wikipedia upon Hermes without treading very close to the Dreaded Cliffs of "Original Research," or perishing in the Denied Desert of "Source Material." I understand the need to protect Wikipedia from zealots, hobby horse riding enthusiasts, conspiracy coo-coos, tin foil hats and all sorts of others on a mission to rewrite history to suit their preconceptions. This often protects Wikipedia from valid scholarship.

Thus I take the great pains I was taught to take. Major points take major evidence, like at least several reliable sources. Sources need to be verifiable. Internet sources are ephemeral and usually unverifiable themselves. I have seen material previously available online from the Redstone Arsenal disappear. The cynic in me notes that material about successful programs did not disappear. Thus I try to use published sources. Research often leads into the dreaded realm of Original Research and Source Material. (Imagine the bewilderment of a fellow member of the American Aviation Historical Society when I told him that Wikipedia frowned upon using or citing source material). As a subscriber to Aviation Week and Space Mythology for many decades I have ready access to their Archives. As as (is) typical little was reveals during Hermes until the very end when the program started to leak like a sieve in an attempt to save it.

These things may be discussed in Talk where inclusion in the article may not be appropriate or even forbidden.

Is it possible to aid each other in the ever endless effort to better understand and represent the past?

The question remains: is Wikipedia about seriously attempting to presnt useful data to the world as a real encyclopedia; or is it simply a place to reheat and and bleat?

Is it not possible in Talk to link to, or import the original Talk so what is in the article is fully documented as to why it is used or not used for other researchers?

Mark Lincoln (talk) 18:08, 24 May 2017 (UTC)


 * In other words, you want to use Wikipedia talk pages as a web host for sharing unpublished original research? I think you already know that's against Wikipedia policies. - BilCat (talk) 19:03, 24 May 2017 (UTC)


 * If you are concerned with Internet published sources disappearing, I would suggest taking a look at the Internet Archive's Wayback Machine. If the link is dead or the content has been changed, there's a good chance the older version may be archived on the website. –Noha307 (talk) 22:43, 26 May 2017 (UTC)

Please consider the page "Wikipedia:No original research" which states: "Wikipedia articles must not contain original research. The phrase "original research" (OR) is used on Wikipedia to refer to material—such as facts, allegations, and ideas—for which no reliable, published sources exist.[a] This includes any analysis or synthesis of published material that serves to reach or imply a conclusion not stated by the sources. To demonstrate that you are not adding original research, you must be able to cite reliable, published sources that are directly related to the topic of the article, and directly support the material being presented. (This policy of no original research does not apply to talk pages and other pages which evaluate article content and sources, such as deletion discussions or policy noticeboards.)" I always cite reliable published sources while editing the Wikipedia. I am well aware of the Wayback Machine as well as its imense limitations. I am also a stickler for veracity and edit under my own name.

Mark Lincoln (talk) 16:52, 23 October 2021 (UTC)

External links modified (January 2018)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 3 external links on Hermes (missile program). Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070707183816/https://www.nasm.si.edu/spacecraft/RM-HermesA-3B.htm to http://www.nasm.si.edu/spacecraft/RM-HermesA-3B.htm
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080511204048/http://ublib.buffalo.edu/libraries/e-resources/ebooks/records/7186.html to http://ublib.buffalo.edu/libraries/e-resources/ebooks/records/7186.html
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20132211345500/http://www.astronautix.com/lvs/hermesa1.htm to http://www.astronautix.com/lvs/hermesa1.htm

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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 00:56, 26 January 2018 (UTC)

The source "McMurran, Achieving Accuracy" is reliable despite the publisher
Every time I cite this source I am told that because it is essentially self published it may be unreliable. I understand that such self published books may be ego-driven garbage at best. They also may be quite reliable but not considered commercially salable in sufficient numbers by publishers. "Achieving Accuracy" what a commercially disappointing subject! How many people care to buy a book on the history of the relationship between computing and missile guidance? I am, as are a few other obviously demented sorts. Mark Lincoln (talk) 18:41, 18 September 2020 (UTC)