Talk:Hindu genealogy registers at Haridwar

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Atulsnischal (talk) 14:50, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

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Needless to say that all this is done as part of worship. The pilgrims often ask their family priests to officiate in these sacraments. These may be family priests from one's own village who may accompany a group of pilgrims or they may be the priests resident in the holy places. This last is an amazing social phenomenon. India has thousands of groups of ethnic or trade origin, all living side by side for thousands of years, each practicing its own customs and traditions, and marrying according to complex rules of endogamy and exogamy. A large number of these endowed pilgrims' houses primarily for the use of their kin and the clan undertaking a pilgrimage. For thousands of years the priests have been in residence in these establishments in the various holy cities. They are priests, pilgrim guides and family record keepers, called the Pandas. It is their duty to keep track of any pilgrims from their ancestral village or kinship group coming; to officiate in the ceremonial required, to guide the pilgrims, and often house them ñ if the pilgrims by now have not become so comfort-loving that they must have starred accommodation. It is common to see at the railway stations of places like Varanasi or Haridwar groups of Pandas inquiring of the arriving travelers as to where they are from, so that they would not be neglected, would be properly guided, and housed.

I recall : I returned to India after a sixteen year absence in 1968, and naturally went to the holy city which has been the ancestral place to visit for a pilgrimage for the people of our brahmin sub-caste. I went to Har ki pauri, the sacred area of Haridwar, and got the attention of the first Panda-looking person I saw, and inquired : I am of the Kaliya clan of the Saraswat sub-caste Brahmana (brahmin) from the Noormahal village, District (County) of Jalandhar in the Punjab State. Where would I find my family Pandas ? The gentleman immediately directed me to the street, the house, and section of the haveli (mansion-like house) where the priests of our particular ìclanî reside. Now, imagine, I am asking the first person I meet, and out of a country of (now) one billion people he can give me the right directions - such is the system still in place. I went to the house, and was received like one's own relative, was guided to take my holy bath, and made an offering. The Panda took out the family's genealogy register, going back three hundred years (because paper cannot last much longer), in which I saw the signatures of the great-grandfather of my great-grandfather. I entered the present state of the family, the marriages that have taken place since the last pilgrimage of a family member, how many children had been born, and so forth, made an appropriate money-offering (the amount depends on your capacity and the degree of reverence), and came away feeling fulfilled.

In 1986 ( I am not sure of the year) I was helping lead the Himalayan Institute tour group in Kashmir. There is a place a called Matand (Sanskrit, martand, meaning the Sun). It used to be a Sun Temple, and, as all Sun temples were at one time, a seat of ancient astronomical observations. It is on the pilgrim route to Amarnath, a cave shrine to Shiva at the height of 13,400 feet in the mountains, where the medium of worship is the usual oval Shiva symbolic form that takes shape out of ice dripping from the roof of the cave; it is fully formed every full moon night, though the pilgrimage is in July-August.

Well, here I was by the holy pool at Matand - on the pilgrim route.

The priests saw me as one lone Indian among so many in an American tour group, and inquired of my origins. I understood their purport; if I was from a kinship group known to them it would be their dharma-duty to take care of me. I told them that this is not the pilgrim route our family normally takes and they were not likely to have any of our family records there. But they insisted on knowing. '''I told them of my origins. Within five minutes they brought out the genealogy register and told me that one year before, on such and such date, my three times removed cousin, together with such and such family members, had passed that way.'''

I, too, then signed in the register giving the present condition of my branch of the family.

I was still a householder. Mother Arya was away visiting a daughter in England. I took two smaller ones and decided to go for a pilgrimage in the mountains, or, rather, to escape the summer heat of the plains. There is a place called Gaur-kunda beyond which cars cannot go. The pilgrims take a bath in the hot mountain stream that forms a pool, to both cleanse and to purify themselves. Then the fourteen kilometer climb on foot begins to the holy shrine of Kedarnath.

As I came out of the car, I was approached by a priestly looking gentleman who, as usual, asked about my origins, and I told him. He pointed to another person in the distance, and said that was the person I would need. The other person was called over to where I stood and I introduced my family background. The gentleman said for me and the children to please go,ahead (now, at that time there were hardly any telephones in the region), that his brother would be standing outside the Government Tourist Hotel before you reach the town of Kedar Nath and would greet you and escort you.

I rented the ponies (that's a bit of cheating everybody indulges in for difficult climbs), arrived at the right place, and before I could open my mouth the gentleman greeted me, and said that he had a message from his brother to receive us. He took us to his pilgrim house, prepared the meals and we all huddled under thick quilts for the cold night just under the glacier.

Before leaving the house in Dehradun I had miscalculated the expenses and had not counted on paying so much for the ponies. Upon arrival I spoke to my car driver: "I am in trouble, I am running short of money." He said "You have forgotten the traditions of India; you are in no trouble. You are in the house of your Panda. There is no problem." Next morning, before I could wake up, the priest came up through the trap-door to where we were sleeping, and said if hear you are running a bit short on money; have no worry." He handed me a bundle of two thousand rupees. No credit cards, no bank references. He arranged for the worship to be performed and everything else we needed done.

Upon returning home I sent him the money, of course, together with an appropriate offering.

Thus, a pilgrimage is not just an individualistic undertaking but a whole social attitude, the realization of special relationships with God as well with His lesser beings.

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Reference

 * WHAT IS A PILGRIM ? by Swami Veda Bharati; On the website of MUSEUM OF EUROPEAN ART, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, Cashed:

Atulsnischal (talk) 16:36, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

Visitor Account: 2
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Bibi Inderjit Kaur was born on January 22, 1935, in the town of Wazirabad in the district of Gujranwala which is now part of Pakistan. She was born into a devout Sikh family with a powerful lineage. Her great-grandfather was Bhai Sahib Abnasha Singh who was a known and respected saint and healer of his time. When Maharaja Ranjit Singh was stricken with small pox as a child, he was brought to Bhai Abnasha Singh for treatment. Ranjit Singh came in royal splendor with great pomp and show, and Bhai Sahib admonished him saying, “You should not have come with all this nonsense. You have disturbed my meditation!” But ultimately he did bless Ranjit Singh and assured him that even though he had already lost one eye to the disease, he would heal and his other eye would be preserved. Later in life when Maharaja Ranjit Singh held rule over the Punjab, he bestowed the title of Bhai Sahib to Abnasha Singh in acknowledgement of his deep spirituality. He told Abnasha Singh to circle as many villages as he could on horseback in one day, and these he gave to him as a jagir, or land grant, in gratitude for healing him as a child.

Another great Sikh is in Bibiji’s family tree is the brave and loyal warrior, Hari Singh Nalwa. Once in the early 1990’s I was with Bibiji and the Siri Singh Sahib in India and we all went to Hardwar to see the river Ganges. '''In the old days, the genealogy of the great families where kept by the family Brahmin in Hardwar. Once a year, the devote Hindus would go for their purifying bath, and at that time would sign their family book, recording the births and deaths that occurred that year'''. As Sikh families sprung from the ancient Hindu bloodlines, some also continued the tradition of keeping their family records in Hardwar. So that day when we visited Hardwar, I learned for the first time of Bibiji’s eminent family and that her family lineage was recorded there. '''The old Brahmin priest brought forth “the book”, and we all signed our names as having come with Bibiji to the Ganges. Four or five pages back in the book, there in bold black ink was the signature of Hari Singh Nalwa - the one who defended the Khalsa against all odds. Right there on the page, the gallant handwriting jumped out me! And next to his signature was another one easily recognized. On that day, Maharaja Ranjit Singh himself had signed the book as the guest of Hari Singh. Not only his signature, but his royal seal was proudly displayed. The two great men came for a cool bath on a hot spring day. It was right there in Bibiji’s family book, five pages back in history from our own signatures.'''

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Reference

 * Happy Birthday Bibiji!; Published by Gurumustuk Singhon January 22, 2007 in Sikh Role Models and Yogi Bhajan. Found on the website of www.mrsikhnet.com, Cashed:

Atulsnischal (talk) 16:53, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

News and Comments related to News: Project Announced
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January 11, 2005

Indian (as in India) Genealogy Project Announced

I spent some time in India on a business trip last spring. I met with a number of business managers, software developers, taxi drivers, and one tour guide. I found almost no interest at all in genealogy among these people. I could not find anyone interested in tracing his or her roots. However, a new project aimed at Indians living abroad may change that, thanks to a new Internet database being planned with the help of the Indian government and scholars around the world.

"A lot of the work is in the planning and coordination stages. A global database station will be a huge task," Ashook Ramsaran, secretary general of New York-based Global Organization of People of Indian Origin, told participants at Overseas Indian Day, an annual meeting of Indians living abroad.

He said the project's organizers would seek permission from the United States and Britain to gain immigration information about their forefathers. It wasn't clear when the database would be operational.

"Once this is set up, someone in Tanzania or Belgium could access which city, town or plantation an ancestor who was an immigrant worker or indentured laborer worked in," he said.

About 25 million people of Indian origin have moved abroad since the early 19th century, working on plantations in former British colonies such as Mauritius and Trinidad or studying in the United States and Britain.

Saloni Deerpalsingh, director of the Mahatma Gandhi Institute in Mauritius, said 75,000 Indians have asked for help in tracking their ancestors.

Chandra Shekhar Tiwary, a researcher with the New Delhi-based genealogy group, Indi Root Foundation, has helped locate the ancestral homes of ten families from the United States, Britain, and Canada who initially migrated to places such as Surinam, Fiji, Trinidad, and Guyana.

"Land, revenue records, birth and death certificates of people's great-great-great grandfathers have helped," Tiwary said. "But if there are no documents, we rely on the memory of older people in the village or on songs of villagers that sometimes mention seven generations of one family."

Posted by Dick Eastman on January 11, 2005 | Permalink

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Comments

This is in response to your comment regarding INDIA " ....I met with a number of business managers, software developers, taxi drivers, and one tour guide. I found almost no interest at all in genealogy among these people. I could not find anyone interested in tracing his or her roots. ..." You are right upto some extent, but I hope you have not met numerous number of persons who have their family tree and have the knowledge also. Normally these information are on a hard copy with them. Few have tried to update the tree, but some have kept as their ancestor's treasure.

I myself have my Family tree dating back till 16th century without break of more than 1000 persons.

Posted by:Hameed Akhtar Siddiqui | January 17, 2005 at 10:09 PM

'''One of the most important resources for tracing ancestry is sadly overlooked. It is the "Pandas" (not the Chinese quadruped variety, but the Brahmin Purohits) in places such as Hardwar, Nasik, Puri and Rameshwaram. I have not been able to visit India in decades, but when I was in Kashmir in late 1950s, there was one Pandit in Mattan who came with ancient scrolls and promised to show me at least ten generations of my family. Sadly, I could not avail of the opportunity.'''

'''If some one were to explore this resource and computerize the information, it would be a boon to many expatriate Indians. Can any one take on the project?

Naren Phanse'''

Posted by:Naren Phanse | January 28, 2005 at 06:30 PM

It is great to participate in this Blog as an Activist of Indi Root Foundation. We have helped more than 35 families to trace their roots in India till date and count goes on as we have more requests at our desk. And, all the credit goes to our dedicated researcher Dr. Chandra Shekhar Tiwary. The Peope of Indian Origin has shown great and sincere interest in tracing their roots in India.

Posted by:Sudhanshu | June 11, 2006 at 07:14 PM

i am very delighted at this movement to trace the ancestry of individuals.i myself am a kashmiri pandit and our community is on its way to extinction,though our family has managed to preserve ancient scrolls of family trees etc.any body with there surnames vaz,raina,bhat,tikku,fotedar,dhar,maza and kher may contact me.

Posted by:nishkam razdan | January 17, 2007 at 09:20 AM

Dear Sir, I am Ashoke Kumar Sen, grandson and namesake of former Indian law minister Ashoke Kumar Sen , brother of the first C.E.C Sukumar Sen. I am the great grand son of former Chief Justice of India S.R.Das , cousin of Deshbandhu C.R.Das. I am currently researching my family history and i was wondering if you would like to be part of this project. I am currently a student at Harrow School, England. Please get back to me as soon as possible. My website is www.baidyasociety.com Yours Sincerely, A.K.Sen

Posted by:Ashoke Sen | April 26, 2007 at 10:37 AM

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Reference

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Atulsnischal (talk) 17:14, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

Blog entry: Tracing one’s roots
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Tracing one’s roots

Posted on November 24, 2007 by Nita

I have always been intrigued by sites like genebase.com which claim to trace your ancestry – right from the origin of your ancestors, their ethnic background to the roots of your surname. All this by buying a kit which tests your ancestry and I presume it’s done by testing your DNA. All this for a couple of hundred dollars plus shipping. As I do not know anyone who has actually done this…I do not know how this works or whether it’s reliable but it was while researching this that I came across a news item which talked of a less sophisticated and a traditional method of testing one’s ancestry - in India ofcourse.

In Hardwar, a holy city in India, there are the ‘Pandas’ who are ‘record holders’ so to speak. They have been physically jotting down the family details of those who have been visiting Hardwar and if you approach them you just might be able to trace your origins, perhaps going back many generations. In this case the writer managed to trace his origins back to 1905. It’s impressive considering that a complete stranger has all this information! It’s all stored in long books or scrolls of paper. As the writer narrates:

…panditji soon came out carrying six-inch thick, more than two feet long, stacks of papers bound in green cloth, typically folded once over. Each bahi—the record book—contained about 600 to 800 pages.

Interesting huh? Well I can’t help wondering if any details of our family are stored here. In those days almost everyone had this habit of making pilgrimages to holy cities and I know for certain that one of my dad’s great uncles died there.

From my father’s side we have details going back only 4-5 generations up till my great-great grandfather whom we know was a teacher. We know just that about him…that he was a teacher, nothing else. However we also know that our ancestors are from Goa. One of them fled Goa (the rest of the family, Hindu priests, still reside there) when the Portuguese invaded and we are descendents of this person. On my mother’s side we have a far longer history, the advantage of being descendents of Sardar Purandare who was the Governor of the Saswad area during Peshwa rule of the Maratha Kingdom. He was a close friend of Peshwa Madhavrao. But even though my uncle has the details of most of these ancestors he has nothing about the women of the Purandare clan of the time. I guess that’s natural, as these details were never recorded. Women were not considered very important unless they were queens or princesses!

I am also curious to know more about my father’s side of the family…what exactly happened when one of the Jatar brothers left Goa and the kind of life he lived. There is absolutely no information on this although there are several Jatar families, not all of whom we can connect to us.

One of my favorite books is Alex Haley’s ‘Roots’. Alex Haley, an African American, wrote about how he traced his family history back to the original African, by the name of Kunta Kinte, who was captured by slave traders way back in 1767. He managed to get to his roots because his ancestors passed down an oral history of Kunta’s experiences. There are those who doubt Haley’s work and it is possible though that Haley may have made a mistake, but it is difficult to prove or disprove this…although some historians claim to have disproved it.

However, the fact that during those times there were other ways to keep records is undisputed. The oral tradition has been common in many traditional societies.

Update: xntricpundits told me about an interesting site called Indianroots, (an Indian government site) which helps Indians who left India a long time ago, some as long ago as the 10th century, to locate their ancestors and ancestral village in India. I do not know if anyone has used this method successfully but I should think that as it is a government site it should work.

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Filed under: Books, Culture, Family, India, Science | Tagged: alex haley, ancestry, hardwar, heritage, oral tradition

Comments

Amit, on November 24th, 2007 at 9:35 pm Said:

When I was in India, my cousin and I went to Haridwar to a priest who has the family records going back a few generations. Due to shortage of time, we were unable to see the actual records, but it was interesting.

Shefaly, would you know the reason for the 7-generation (minimum) rule? Knowledge of the ill-effects of inbreeding perhaps? Or something else?

Nita, on November 24th, 2007 at 9:48 pm Said: @Amit:

Hey, that means you went to these same people! A pity you didn’t actually get things done from them as it would have been interesting to hear of a first hand experience with these pandits!

xntricpundits, on November 25th, 2007 at 2:14 am Said:

If you allow me Nita here is the link to list of resources to trace the family tree. http://genealogy.about.com/od/india/

Includes link to pakistan,srilankan and bangladeshi genealogy forums. Bonus link- http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/familyhistory/next_steps/int_03_india_01.shtml
 * 1) If your family have taken part in the many migrations between India and Britain, how can you go about tracking their family history?#

Thanks. - Nita.

subbu, on November 26th, 2007 at 5:50 pm Said: Just being skeptical…what about the people who never went to Hardwar…or may be the pandits missed to jot down their name..and worst case identifying the wrong person as your ancestor.

BTW there is a very good fictional book where the hero finds his roots and gets enlightened written by toni morrison called “song of the solomon” have you read that?

Nita, on November 26th, 2007 at 6:00 pm Said: @subbu:

Identifying the wrong person as your ancestor is unlikely to happen as these people have not one but several names of family members including their birth, death, marriage dates etc. But ofcourse the pandits will only have the names of those who visited Hardwar and not other people. And I am sure they will ‘miss’ people whom they do not consider important! I haven’t read the book you mentioned. But will pick it up if I come across it. Thanks.

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Reference

 * Blog entry: Tracing one’s roots; Posted on November 24, 2007 by Nita,

Atulsnischal (talk) 17:50, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

Two years ago I went to Garh Mukteshwar to immerse the ashes of the mother. We were easily guided through the bylanes and told our priest recording the events was Pandit KaliCharan and taken to his haveli (large house) where the sons of Pandit Kali Charan were taking forward the legacy of recording. We did not have much time but by naming some of our ancestors he was able to quickly show us one entry wherein my great-great-grandfather had visited on a pilgrimage with his wife, two sons and the family pandit in the year 1840 AD. In Rajasthan the Jaga or Bhat had the resposibility to visit villages and towns to record all birth/death/marriage events of Rajput families. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.163.161.39 (talk) 13:57, 20 March 2010 (UTC)

Merged in six articles
I have merged the following six articles into this one: All of these were >90% identical. The single sentence merged into this article for each one was literally the only article-specific text content; the rest was a rephrasing or straight copy of material already present here. There was clearly no basis for separate articles. - However, the articles did have some image material that would be useful here. Someone might want to pick some of that out of the article version before the redirect, and add it to the indiviudal sections. -- Elmidae (talk · contribs) 10:59, 13 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Hindu genealogy registers at Kurukshetra, Haryana
 * Hindu genealogy registers at Peohwa, Haryana
 * Hindu genealogy registers at Jawalamukhi, Himachal Pradesh
 * Hindu genealogy registers at Chintpurni, Himachal Pradesh
 * Hindu genealogy registers at Varanasi
 * Hindu genealogy registers at Trimbakeshwar, Maharashtra