Talk:Hori7on

New article turned to draft awaiting review
CC: User:Ayamano2021

Hori7on page is already created. What's the need to put it under review if we both know the page is good to go? Not only that, you took ALL my edits and made it yours. If you think my edits is not encyclopedic, why not revise it yourself, not copy the whole thing to make it yours, then put it under review with you as the author? If you have any issues with the page, please let me know or edit them. We can also let other Wikipedia volunteers to help us with our discussion, if needed. Thank you. 001Jrm (talk) 17:33, 14 February 2023 (UTC)


 * Hori7on page on the draft was created before the Dream Maker commercial break, 22:13, 12 February 2023 (Draft:Hori7on) versus this article  00:44, 14 February 2023 (Hori7on)‎ and also im so sorry to use your article's text i have to revert it back into my edit instead. Ayamano2021 (talk) 17:42, 14 February 2023 (UTC)


 * I see, I wasn't aware. However, if you think I did something wrong, you could have just messaged me. I saw that you sent it for review after you used my edits, which means you were already aware that the page is up. That, I don't understand. Wikipedia is an online community wherein "anyone can be bold and edit an existing article or create a new one". Since there is already an existing article that is up, I guess it's better to participate in it rather than making a new one with the same/similar content. I'm sorry if I didn't see your draft, but know that your participation is appreciated. 001Jrm (talk) 18:03, 14 February 2023 (UTC)


 * CC: User:SeanJ_2007. There was an unintentional overlap with the pages, and I was not aware of the draft when I created the page. The draft was submitted after copying all the content from the newly-created page instead of a merge. I reverted back my edit because I, the author of the page, wrote it in a way that it is notable. If you think the page should be put back to this draft, at least merge it with my edit, not copy+paste the whole thing. We can send a dispute to help us with this, if needed. Thank you. 001Jrm (talk) 09:37, 15 February 2023 (UTC)


 * WP:NBAND #10, #12 and soon others since we all know it's already in the works. It's like creating a Wiki film that hasn't been released yet. Here's another example (random pull) wherein the band is set to debut, but hasn't debuted yet. 001Jrm (talk) 09:50, 15 February 2023 (UTC)
 * The draft is currently for review, can you just wait first before it will be accepted to main space? I think history merge is not a good idea for this. SeanJ 2007 (talk) 11:27, 15 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Nope, I wasn't the one who bypassed the rules as what you have said here. I was given the authority to make an article straight to the main space because I know the rules here. I know it will pass the review process because I was the one who authored whatever content is in there. What Ayamano2021 did was copy and pasted my content and made it his/hers/theirs. If this doesn't pass, at least give credit to me as a co-author because I put my hard work in here too just to be copied by anyone else. Not that I'm claiming everything solely. We're all volunteers anyways.
 * Hi, User:CNMall41, can you help us with our dispute here? Whether the page will pass or not, I just want to get the credit that I worked hard for. Thank you001Jrm (talk) 13:18, 15 February 2023 (UTC)
 * I do resolve disputes as I am an editor just like you. I can opine and if there is no resolution you work out then I would suggest going to a noticeboard to address the issue. Can you send me the link to the current copy? I will gladly let you know if I think it will pass notability guidelines or not. --CNMall41 (talk) 21:29, 15 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks so much! Here's my edit that was in the mainspace before the reverts. The group has been active in its promotions in the Philippines since the show's finale. More sources that may be added when the dispute is resolved include: a press conference with a mention of their own reality show and album release in the works, and performance of their unreleased single on a television show. Much appreciated! 001Jrm (talk) 00:20, 16 February 2023 (UTC)
 * I am not so sure they meet WP:GNG. My understanding is that is the name of the group of artists, but the artists are eliminated or advance individually? If that is the case, I believe the individuals would need to meet WP:NMUSIC. But, just my opinion. --CNMall41 (talk) 05:35, 16 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Hori7on is a 7-member boy group created through a survival show. From 62 contestants, only 7 advanced to be in the final group. Not everyone is notable individually, but the group itself is. Similar boy/girl groups created by survival programs are Wanna One, I.O.I, and X1 (group). The name Hori7on have substantial and reliable articles from news sites as found here (Korean search engine) and here (Google under 'News' section) even before its June 2023 debut since it's a big deal: they're the first Filipino boy group debuting as a KPOP band in South Korea. They have unreleased songs (ex. two songs) written by notable producers in South Korea (Bull$EyE and Seo Won Jin) and they're already using the songs during promotions ahead of their debut. Articles vary from primary to independent reliable sources with significant coverage that's why I believe it meets WP:GNG. Thank you! 001Jrm (talk) 04:50, 17 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Again, my opinion is that they don't really meet WP:GNG. As far as WP:NBAND, they don't qualify either (unreleased music, using for promo, etc.). --CNMall41 (talk) 05:15, 17 February 2023 (UTC)
 * The group had just debuted, likely this is a case of WP:TOOSOON to create an article for this. If they released a song, lets see about that on WP:NMUSIC. SeanJ 2007 (talk) 07:00, 17 February 2023 (UTC)
 * I think they meet WP:GNG ('Presumed': random sample of a reliable source w/ significant coverage; Significant coverage: this addresses the topic directly and in detail; Reliable: Korea JoongAng Daily and Inquirer, to name a few; Sources and Independent of the subject: I believe multiple sources that are outside the topic  and affiliated with it like MLD Entertainment & ABS-CBN show that there are reliable secondary sources). As for WP:BAND, it says that it may be notable "...if they meet at least one of the following criteria." and I believe #10 and #12 were already met. I agree that it may be WP:TOOSOON, but from past experiences, there are multiple pages that have already been created similar to this page, even before their debut (X1: page created July 2019, debuted August 2019; Wanna One: page created June 2017, debuted August 2017; I.O.I: page created April 2016, debuted May 2016). Hori7on page was created more or less similar to the 3 pages, and I used the 3 as examples because they have similar circumstances. However, if you insist that the stuff I presented were not enough, I will respect your decision. After all, what I didn't like was someone just took my content, pasted it on his/her draft and took it as hers/his without even contacting me. Thank you for your time! I appreciate it. 001Jrm (talk) 04:22, 22 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Its not me you need to convince. You asked my opinion which I gave. This is based off reviewing thousands of drafts at AfC. I do not base opinions based solely on guidelines. I based them what my experience tells me Wikipedia editors will do (delete or not delete) based on those guidelines. --CNMall41 (talk) 07:41, 22 February 2023 (UTC)

Requested move 28 June 2023

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: page moved. Andrewa (talk) 11:19, 6 July 2023 (UTC)

Horizon (Filipino band) → Hori7on – MOS:TM, which was cited to make the move, advises to use a formatting of the title that is in use by most independent reliable sources, and then choose one that most closely resembles standard English. In the process of finding sources for this article, and after quick Google search, most, if not all, sources, refer to the subject as Hori7on, which arguably resembles standard English, with "7" bearing some semblance to Z. The group is never referred to as Horizon in most, if not all, sources, as the stylistic is always used. As the guideline advises to not invent new styles [that are not in use by sources], it would be best to revert back to the previous title, as is the case with Kep1er. EdrianJustine (talk) 15:53, 28 June 2023 (UTC)


 * In addition, when referring to the band (subject of article), the stylistic, which is supported by most, if not all, sources, makes the title more recognizable and concise. EdrianJustine (talk) 18:21, 28 June 2023 (UTC)


 * Support per nom, the name "Hori7on" is used by most sources not "Horizon". ThisIsSeanJ (talk) 00:49, 29 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Support per nom, given the Kep1er case, then we should retain move it. Juan Camilo Lugo (malungkot si accla, kausapin niyo naman) 07:52, 29 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Comment since this band was formed by MLD Entertainment and ABS-CBN, ABS-CBN (who make up something like half of the English-language sources cited in the article) is not an independent reliable source here for purposes of MOS:TM. However other sources like Manila Bulletin, The Philippine Inquirer, and JoongAng Ilbo also adopted the spelling "Hori7on". 59.149.117.119 (talk) 04:57, 6 July 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Notability
Hasn't the group demonstrated WP:BAND #1 through the multitude of articles, newspaper, magazine, etc., covering the band? or to an extent, #6, #10, and #12? EdrianJustine (talk) 17:52, 28 June 2023 (UTC)


 * I'll go WP:JUSTDOIT and remove the template. A cursory Google search of the band's name reveals pages after pages of reliable third-party secondary sources from both the Philippines and Korea, way more coverage than some indie bands already on Wikipedia would receive in their entire careers. Even if you discount articles from ABS-CBN as non-secondary, you'll still have dozens of independently-written articles establishing notability. I don't follow P-pop or K-pop, but from my perspective there really shouldn't be any doubts about their notability. PritongKandule -✉️📝 06:13, 29 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Good call. Andrewa (talk) 11:15, 6 July 2023 (UTC)

"First"
@EdrianJustine Found this article via Peer review and I have some feedback on this line:

"Hori7on is the first Filipino musical group to debut in South Korea..."

None of the sources provided show that they were the "first." Can you provide any sources that clearly state this? Happy editing! Uri24 (talk) 18:56, 26 July 2023 (UTC)


 * I've reworded the text to better better conform to the sources; if this doesn't fix the issue please let us know. Thank you for the feedback. EdrianJustine (talk) 19:15, 26 July 2023 (UTC)