Talk:Human

Should the picture be updated?
I think it could be more fitting to have the picture be of (a) human(s) in a more current environment, such as at a computer. This better represents the current state of humanity, which is highly integrated with technology. Paperclip petter (talk) 08:31, 19 August 2023 (UTC)
 * The lead picture? What percentage of "people" worldwide use a computer or work in an office environment? Vsmith (talk) 15:16, 19 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Here are the most recent sources I found from a quick search. I haven't checked these and couldn't find much info on google scholar.
 * "A total of 5.19 billion people around the world were using the internet at the start of Q3 2023, equivalent to 64.5 percent of the world’s total population." (https://datareportal.com/global-digital-overview)
 * 47.1% of households had a computer as of 2019 (https://www.statista.com/statistics/748551/worldwide-households-with-computer/)
 * This is a little less than I was expecting, so maybe it's not time yet.
 * To be clear, I do think the current lead photo is beautiful and fitting and I like that it's not western-centric. I think these are also qualities that the photo should have. Paperclip petter (talk) 18:47, 19 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Given the wide diversity of humans, and human behaviors. I think it would be a great idea to have a mosaic with the current image at top, and then a few others. Maybe some farmer in a banana plantation. Or villagers in rural Mongolia performing religious ceremonies, and so on, in that vein.
 * You'll never capture to full gamut of humanity from one, or even a few pictures, but I feel this would be the next best thing. VoidHalo (talk) 13:24, 22 August 2023 (UTC)
 * I like this Idea too! Paperclip petter (talk) 17:10, 22 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Disagree. While many people use computers (and other tech) daily, humans have primarily been either hunting/gathering or farming for a greater portion of their history. A photo with an agricultural or nature background is appropriate. LaggyMcStab (talk) 06:44, 26 September 2023 (UTC)
 * 100% of people who will look at this article use a computer. Sinistrality2023 (talk) 00:07, 4 November 2023 (UTC)
 * I am the 0.0001% that uses a phone to see this article. 2001:448A:4006:20A9:55A2:4519:A9B3:584F (talk) 05:13, 25 November 2023 (UTC)
 * That's still a computer. 185.139.138.106 (talk) 02:51, 14 February 2024 (UTC)
 * I used a phone to write this very talk page article. So, I'll second that. VoidHalo (talk) 14:56, 16 June 2024 (UTC)
 * The picture should be updated to one of sub Saharan Africans. As they are the earliest homo sapien. 67.81.247.227 (talk) 23:47, 31 August 2023 (UTC)
 * They are not, in fact, the "earliest homo sapien." They are inherently modern humans by living in the modern world, genetically, culturally, and physiologically. If you wanted the "earliest homo sapien," you'd have to time travel. New Boojum (talk) 23:27, 9 November 2023 (UTC)
 * They are not, in fact, the "earliest homo sapien." They are inherently modern humans by living in the modern world, genetically, culturally, and physiologically. If you wanted the "earliest homo sapien," you'd have to time travel. New Boojum (talk) 23:28, 9 November 2023 (UTC)
 * I think the current image is not terrible, but I would say it's "bad". See Talk:Human/FAQ and Talk:Human/Archive_35, and consider MOS:NOETHNICGALLERIES. I personally would like a montage / gallery but it might be "politically impossible". I feel as though a good way to get the ball rolling would be to move the population density map up to be the main and only image in the infobox. For example like on the article Jews there is a symbol and a map showing populations around the world, but no actual photos of Jews. I think it would be a good place to start to do the same on this article. Then we could discuss what to put instead. Many comparable featured articles use a gallery in the infobox, such as Frog, Spider, Bird, and most importantly/comparably: Primate. Others have a single example like Whale or Brown bear or, most comparably, Man and Woman. Maybe we want to show those two images from Man and Woman. Or maybe we want to show just one example. At this point I'm rambling, but I think the current image has got to go eventually. Leijurv (talk) 05:29, 1 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Agreed. The current image isn't horrible by any means. It gets the point across very effectively. I'm just saying that a mosaic would be even better. But not that the current image necessarily has anything wrong with it. VoidHalo (talk) 12:23, 7 September 2023 (UTC)
 * I disagree. A mosaic/montage might look good on larger screens, but on anything smaller it can just become a collection of tiny, meaningless postage stamps. HiLo48 (talk) 22:37, 7 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Primate looks great on my laptop and phone. Leijurv (talk) 01:17, 8 September 2023 (UTC)
 * The mosaics used for lead images on Wikipedia usually consist of multiple separate images. As opposed to all of the pictures being one large image. So, if you have difficulty seeing them, you can click the individual images to view them full size.
 * Even in the event that it's just a single image of a mosaic, provided the quality/resolution is acceptable, you should be able to zoom in on each panel in fullscreen to see it in more detail.
 * Others mention they've never had problems viewing mosaics on mobile devices, but you need to consider that not everybody's phone is going to have the same resolution, or physical screen size. And eyesight is going to vary a great deal from person to person, outside of legal blindness, that is another matter all together. So, even though it's the same image, the quality/detail will be different (at least, to some degree) for most people. VoidHalo (talk) 22:33, 29 September 2023 (UTC)
 * See MOS:NOETHNICGALLERIES Dunkleosteus77  (talk) 20:13, 30 September 2023 (UTC)
 * I'm not with you on the content being outdated, the photo is perfect in that regard, but the quality of the image is starting to show it's age. For instance, there are some pretty noticeable JPG artifacts around the man's hat that either weren't noticeable on most screens 10 years ago, or were more tolerable back then. Maybe not today, but eventually the image will need to be replaced or updated in some way. Brightgalrs (/braɪtˈɡæl.ərˌɛs/)[ᴛ] 01:31, 1 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Agreed, ideally we would use a featured picture on Wikimedia commons or something like that.  Howard  🌽33  18:45, 9 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Honestly, I see no reason to keep using a low-quality photo from 2009. Howard  🌽33  18:55, 9 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Everyone agrees that it would be nice if every article were improved. The trick is to propose an actual improvement so a meaningful discussion can occur. Bear in mind that very few readers would need a picture of a human to know what the topic of the article is. Johnuniq (talk) 23:45, 9 November 2023 (UTC)
 * What if we did my idea I mentioned above: Maybe someone should WP:BOLDly move the population density map from the bottom of the infobox to the top, replacing the current image? Leijurv (talk) 18:13, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
 * I think the better comparison here would be gorillas and monkeys, which are species (just like humans). Jews are members of a religion, so the comparison is weaker.  Bremps  ...  22:25, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
 * True, the pages for gorilla and monkey have a single image, but other species with variation like cat and dog have collages. Humans have tons of diversity and variation that could be shown like that. Leijurv (talk) 22:00, 14 December 2023 (UTC)
 * There were lengthy discussions about the picture, all now archived. And turned out the picture is good enough, because is fulfills basic requirements like showing humans of both sexes, standing in a posture that shows most body features, and humans being in possession of tools (in a way, computers are just another tools). Plus millions of humans depends on subsistence agriculture and farming for living even today, so I think the picture isn't outdated. I'm against changing the picture, if there isn't a concrete alternative that is better. --Bananice2 (talk) 22:50, 2 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Well said, Bananice2. There is always an instinctive urge to critique, which can be a great thing, but there's a big difference between thinking something isn't good enough and actually finding a solution that improves it meaningfully. The image serves every practical purpose that could be asked of it.
 * It is slightly lower resolution than you'd hope, but it's still serviceable. 138.64.65.74 (talk) 13:39, 10 January 2024 (UTC)
 * I’m jumping in, I think the page’s image should stay the same way it is, we could picture them in different environments such as deserts (my father spent most of his life in the deserts) or forests (if Germany has forests, they’ll be top 1 on my bucket list), other than that, it should stay same. Cometkeiko (talk) 16:40, 19 January 2024 (UTC)
 * It could use an update.....I would suggest something where someone is standing. I highly discourage use of a montage as seen at Primate.... as these photos are so small on phones they're indistinguishable thus deter readers understanding. Moxy -Maple Leaf (Pantone).svg 02:46, 20 January 2024 (UTC)
 * When we take a picture of an ant for Wikipedia, we do not search for the most advanced, largest ant colony, basically I say the same should apply to humans. A random human of the 8 billion on earth is fit to represent the species, not its level of technological development. Kreuner (talk) 14:45, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
 * The picture is good, fine, and representative. Remsense  诉  14:49, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
 * At this point, picture on this page is iconic. I would agree we could have more pictures, including a gallery, but generally think the current one should be included in some capacity. GeogSage  ( ⚔Chat?⚔ ) 17:41, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
 * I think this specific image was chosen due to its representative aspect across different world regions and ages. While humans may be generally more acquainted with computers now, this has not always been the case. In contrast, humans have been farmers for millennia. I think if the image should represent humans across history, then the image chosen does that job well.
 * This all depends on what you think the image should represent, though. And if you think it should represent humans as they are right now, then it's true that computers would be a more accurate symbol for technological advancement in the modern age. However, it is important to recognize that not all people have equal access to the latest technology, and the world is still built on the large population of farmers. Gherickson (talk) 16:09, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
 * The photo itself has a low resolution and quality compared to other Wikipedia articles so I agree that it should change. Qwexcxewq (talk) 02:52, 6 May 2024 (UTC)
 * It is primarily intended for thumbnail display, and as such its resolution of 331×554 seems adequate to me. Remsense  诉  02:57, 6 May 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 12 May 2024
Correction to the evolution portion of the page, Africans carry neanderthal dna between .3 and 1% on average. https://www.science.org/content/article/africans-carry-surprising-amount-neanderthal-dna Napow27 (talk) 14:38, 12 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Pictogram voting comment.svg Note: The article currently says Neanderthal DNA is present in all "non sub-Saharan-African populations" - in other words, it is present in North Africa but not the rest of the continent.


 * The new source doesn't explicitly contradict this, and is a bit vague about what was found. They compared DNA from "five African subpopulations", but it's unclear whether these were sub-Saharan, northern, or both. If all five populations were from North Africa this would match what the article already says. We probably need to find a different source to clarify this. Jamedeus (talk) 02:07, 13 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Charliehdb (talk) 10:05, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

NPOV issue in "Science and Philosophy"
"Philosophy relies on reason and evidence, unlike religion, but does not require the empirical observations and experiments provided by science."

Is it neutral to dismiss all religion as something unreliant on reason and evidence? Many if not most philosophers are themselves religious and many spend their careers defending religion on the basis of reason and evidence. I'm not religious myself, but I know Wikipedia takes a neutral POV towards religion and should not describe it as something lacking in reason or evidence.

The source for this statement is a short blog post by an atheist philosopher, not an academic source describing a broad consensus. This doesn't belong in a level-1 vital article, so I'm removing the offending sentence. Woozybydefault (talk) 19:49, 3 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Is it neutral to dismiss all religion as something unreliant on reason and evidence? Considering religion is a faith and faith is accepting something as true without any evidence the sentence is neutral. Aircorn (talk) 02:20, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 23 June 2024
Pieterdumortier (talk) 12:35, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

To this part:

Multiple hypotheses for the extinction of archaic human species such as Neanderthals include competition, violence, interbreeding with Homo sapiens, or inability to adapt to climate change.

Add this?:

Fossil findings have indicated brutality and violence among H. sapiens living 10,000 years ago. The evidence has shown that in addition to interbreeding, Neanderthals were also very often killed by H. sapiens, and in related findings, genetic studies have shown that the mutations in ADSL, GLDC, and SLITRK1 genes, which are associated with hyperactivity and aggressive behavior in modern humans, were not found in Neanderthals. Thus, by multiple methods, H. sapiens were responsible for the extinction of Neanderthals, who were more cooperative and less aggressive than H. sapiens according to studies from various fields.

Source: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4947341/
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: Per this earwig scan, this request is a copy-paste, which is a copyright violation. Please use your own words. ABG (Talk/Report any mistakes here) 04:10, 2 July 2024 (UTC) ABG (Talk/Report any mistakes here) 04:10, 2 July 2024 (UTC)