Talk:Hyaluronic acid

Use as a dietary supplement
I saw hyaluronic acid in 20mg capsules available as a dietary supplement at a health food store recently. However, the label on the bottle made no claims. What are the purported benefits of oral hyaluronic acid supplementation? Have any studies been conducted on this? --LostLeviathan 15:33, 31 August 2005 (UTC)

There are no benefits to oral hyaluronic acid. If one were to ingest hyaluronic acid it would be completely degraded in the acidic conditions of the stomach. The degradation products would likely continue through the digestive tract and be excreted. There is absolutely no way that oral hyaluronic acid would ever wind up in arthritic joints.--Herb West 14:58, 16 September 2005 (UTC)

I saw this claim: "Hyaluronic acid extracted from rooster combs has too large a chemical size for absorption by the intestinal tract. When directly extracted from rooster combs, the molecular weight is 1.2 to 1.5 million Daltons (Da).2  For comparison, the average molecule weight of an amino acid is approximately 110 Da.  But, wouldn’t you know it, Japanese scientists developed a proprietary enzyme-cleaving technique to lower the molecular weight of hyaluronic acid without altering its chemical nature.  The final molecular weight of hyaluronic acid processed by the Injuv™ process is 5,000 Daltons.  This allows hyaluronic acid to be taken orally as a nutritional supplement and absorbed in the intestinal tract.

Subsequent research has proven the absorption of oral delivery of Hyaluronic acid and then its ability to be taken up by joints. The results of this study, which examined the absorption, excretion and distribution of radiolabeled hyaluronic acid after a single oral administration in Wistar rats and Beagle dogs, demonstrated that HA is absorbed and distributed to organs and joints after a single oral administration. "

the site was http://www.rejuvenation-science.com/hylauronic-acid.html this gives more info: http://www.rejuvenation-science.com/n_hyaluronic_acid-oral.html

Does this makes sense? - Nick

Nick, the study mentioned in those pages doesn't seem to've been published anywhere as I can't find it indexed in Medline. I wouldn't use it as a source. Emp² 16:29, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

The study was published 2008: J. Agric. Food Chem. 2008, 56, 10582–10593. Salama —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.143.83.75 (talk) 12:00, 2 March 2010 (UTC)


 * 2 yrs later?? No wonder he couldn't find the publication on Medline in 2006!! It wasnt published until 2 years after his comment... 65.240.135.194 (talk) 01:07, 17 September 2023 (UTC)

Structure of Hyaluronan
The current image of the hyaluronan structure on this page is incorrect. Hyaluronic acid is a repeating disaccharide with the following structure: GlcNAc(beta1-->4)GlcA(beta1-->3)

The current image of the hyaluronan is not according to this structure.

Source: Nomenclature of glycoproteins, glycopeptides and peptidoglycans, IUPAC-IUB Joint Commission on Biochemical Nomenclature (JCBN)

http://www.chem.qmul.ac.uk/iupac/misc/glycp.html Dabalk 16:07, 8 April 2007 (UTC)Dabalk


 * You're right. It is wrong. Good catch. --Herb West 03:30, 27 December 2006 (UTC)


 * It's now corrected. --Ed (Edgar181) 19:55, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

The current hyaluronan image seems incorrect. The disaccharide building block between the parentheses starts and ends with an oxygen atom. One of these oxygen atoms should be left out. HendrikH (talk) 07:34, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

Does anyone know?
In using HA for horses, I have noticed that there are 2 different types used on the lables. I am wondering what the differences are, and what the difference might be to how the 2 different types might be utilized by the animal? One is Hyaluronic acid, and the other is Sodium Haluronate. 63.152.3.34 04:33, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
 * They are essentially the same thing. Sodium hyaluronate is just a salt of hyaluronic acid. The standard preparation for injecting is HY-50 (see the references added to the article). There is another preparation which can be added to the horse's feed. We have ordered this for our horse, as a follow-up to the course of injections, but have not yet received it.AliasMarlowe (talk) 19:54, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

Everyone is so vague
I have searched the internet looking for REAL answers as to exactly how HA is made for these injections or oral supplements but nothing is out there. You have to read between the lines to figure out it is made from chickens, birds and have heard in some cases, human fetuses. Is there any truth to the last part of this and does anyone have a REAL answer to the following question? "What, exactly, is Hyaluronic Acid or Sodium Hyaluronic Acid made from when produced for oral supplements or injections into joints or even produced for Restylane injections, which are supposedly pure SHA?" 24.238.226.95 07:54, 11 April 2007 (UTC)S Vaughan
 * From my understanding some companies get it from chicken combs and some make it through bacterial fermtation. The fetuses thing is totally bunk. Remember 14:03, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Hyaluronic acid can be (and is) extracted from human umbilical cords; I presume this is where the "extracted from foetuses" comes from. Philip Jewess — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.191.24.30 (talk) 12:04, 8 July 2015 (UTC)


 * Yes. The (currently 6th) cited reference Stern[2009] explains on page 5 that
 * > Hyaluronan ... is the major constituent of fetal structures such as Wharton's jelly of the umbilical cord .... John hanley parc (talk) 18:03, 3 April 2022 (UTC)

Cosmetic Applications
In the cosmetic section, the article seems to imply that there are contra-indications for people on 'blood medication'. Does anyone know what this might mean? (It doesn't seem to be specific enough to make sense. E.g., blood thinners, or blood products (e.g., platelets)...?). If no one knows I'll look this up when I have time. bfigura (talk) 05:07, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Removed. I can find no studies confirming this, and neither can the FDA. Feezo (Talk) 05:48, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
 * It's back again - Dont know how or why. Rod57 (talk) 12:48, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

There are no citations available for the statement that one should not use this product for five years after using a "blood medication." There are numerous sources that state that, to minimize bruising from the injection procedure, one should avoid blood-thinning medications for three days to two weeks (depending on which article you are looking at) in advance. It appears that the author may have simply mis-read one of his sources. Since the information has no citation, and since it is fuzzy at best, and since it is incorrect, the statement should be removed.dragonwych (talk) 20:05, 20 April 2009 (UTC)
 * it says "Hyaluronic acid is a common ingredient in skin care products" but does not state what the benefits are supposed to be, or the reasons for using it. What is it supposed to do when simply washed with? 2.31.164.76 (talk) 17:50, 13 February 2021 (UTC)

Martial arts hand conditioning, and presence in certain vegetables?
Somewhere I heard that this compound is necessary in large quantity taken orally for a type of hand conditioning called "iron hand". IT was supposedly obtained in sufficient concentration from a diet consisting mainly of Japanese sweet potato, and Mexican wild yam supposedly has it in large amounts also. What truth, if any, is there to these statements? 216.82.142.13 (talk) 22:39, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
 * You've got the wrong idea. We don't answer questions, we find people with answers and cite them.  You could try the reference desk but you're better off trying google.  Very unlikely you'll find anything but if you do and it is reliable, please cite it.  WLU (t) (c) Wikipedia's rules: simple/complex 00:28, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Try Yahoo Answers. Fuzbaby (talk) 04:34, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Now that's just cruel. No need to be mean. SCNR --92.202.107.73 (talk) 22:02, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

Origin
Where did the word "hyaluron" come from? Who initially isolated & described the substance in the the scientific literature? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.79.10.114 (talk) 21:49, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

The correct spelling is "hyaluronan." It was first discribed/isolated by Karl Meyer in 1934. The use of the terms "hyaluronic acid" and "hyaluronate" are described on the main page. The term "hyaluronan" was introduced in 1986 to encompass all forms of the molecule. Lgurski (talk) 19:56, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

Reference #2 Typo
FYI Reference #2 should be Fraser not Frasher. - dreadlockededscientist

Questions
Well I've just gone through and read the page and I have a few bits I don't understand and a few bits I can't find links to for further explanation, so here are some questions. What 'proteins' could be 'link proteins' in this sentence - are they 'special' in some way ? What is 'petircellular' in this sentence - is it just a typo? for pericellular ?? In (for example) the sentence above Hyaluronic acid seems to be abbreviated HA - but that abbreviation is not clarified in the article (but I don't think I've misread that?). Do you think inserting 'and abbreviated HA' into the first line of the article would be a good idea ? So something like this:
 * When aggrecan monomers bind to hyaluronan in the presence of link protein, large highly negatively-charged aggregates form.
 * endocytosis of HA, which leads to HA catabolism in macrophages; and assembly of petircellular matrices from HA and proteoglycan.
 * Hyaluronan (also called hyaluronic acid or hyaluronate, and abbreviated HA) is ...

To the layman (me) the whole first half of the section Hyaluronan looks like and advert for Healon which I guess is a brand name? am I wrong - I'm going to insert a few cite note needed bits in there.

Is the word 'imbibe' correct in the sentence below - it seems 'non scientific' - but what do I know :) EdwardLane (talk) 16:26, 10 May 2011 (UTC)
 * When aggrecan monomers bind to hyaluronan in the presence of link protein, large highly negatively-charged aggregates form. These aggregates imbibe water and...

Tidying the link for pp60(c-src)
I created a red link for pp60(c-src), as I'm not sure what it is. Searching in wikipedia for pp60 I see List_of_MeSH_codes_(D12.776) and List_of_MeSH_codes_(D08) both contain these redlinks Oncogene_protein_pp60(v-src) and proto-oncogene proteins pp60(c-src) but I don't know enough about Hyaluronan to be bold and change that redlink I made into this redlink proto-oncogene proteins pp60(c-src)

I dont even know what proto-oncogene means, so I'll leave tidying that redlink to someone else, while I go and read that page. Thanks. EdwardLane (talk) 16:22, 10 May 2011 (UTC)

Cancer resistance of the naked mole rat
High-molecular-mass hyaluronan mediates the cancer resistance of the naked mole rat could perhaps be mentioned in the section on cancer mechanisms? - Rod57 (talk) 12:00, 24 June 2013 (UTC)


 * FWIW - yes, I agree - I added this not too long ago (June 20, 2013) - but was reverted (perhaps for good reason?) - if interested, the earlier edit was as follows:

 Copied from June 20, 2013 article revision. On June 19, 2013, scientists reported that the reason "cancerproof" laboratory animals do not get cancer may be because they produce an "extremely high-molecular-mass hyaluronan", which is over "five times larger" than that in cancer-prone humans and cancer-susceptible laboratory animals.< ref name="NYT-20130619"> < ref name="NATURE-20130619">


 * in any case - Enjoy! :) Drbogdan (talk) 13:07, 24 June 2013 (UTC)

Name change
Hyaluronic acid was an older name (by Meyer and Palmer in 1934). The name was changed to "Hyaluronan" in 1986, based on the fact that the polysaccharide is synthesized by mammalian cells and certain species of microbes as a "salt", not a "acid". The name "Hyaluronan" has been used much more than "Hyaluronic acid" in the field since.

Reference: John H. Brekke, Gregory E. Rutkowski. Kipling Thacker. Chapter 19 Hyaluronan. In: An Introduction to Biomaterials, Second Edition (Editor: Jeffrey O. Hollinger) 2011. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Leeearnest2012 (talk • contribs) 23:35, 26 August 2015 (UTC)


 * Hyaluronan may be the name more used in the 'field' but hyaluronic acid is still very much more favoured by the general reader. Ngrams and Google books show this - also references on this talk page use hyaluronic acid and HA as the shorthand for that. HA is used many times in the article so that is what prompted a search for the most usually used term and the subsequent page move. Redirects are often from articles that refer to hyaluronic acid. --Iztwoz (talk) 19:04, 27 August 2015 (UTC)


 * With regard to naming a page, particularly on a science topic, the "general" reader is irrelevant (especially when this area is dominated by hucksters selling nutri-ceuticals). Wikipedia has the ability to redirect searches.  The title should be Hyaluronan and searches for HA should redirect to that title. Address the name issue in the first few sentences. This is supposed to at least pretend to be an encyclopedia.  Accuracy, detail, and precision should be the first priority, while the preferences of people one step away from injecting bleach to cure COVID as they scream "Stop the steal" should be relegated to the bottom of a latrine where they belong.

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Cosmetic uses
In addition to being injected as a wrinkle filler, etc., there is also topical use and dietary supplement use. I do not intend to write about because of COI (I have consulting clients with products). David notMD (talk) 16:13, 16 October 2017 (UTC)

Approval
I propose the one line "Approval" section be merged with "Medical uses". I found them to be contradictory. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tsunami3 (talk • contribs) 18:40, 20 August 2018 (UTC)

Medical uses, knee osteoarthritis studies
These sentences in the article seem to be contradictory:

“A 2012 review showed that the quality of studies supporting this use was mostly poor, with general absence of significant benefit, and intra-articular injection of hyaluronic acid could possibly cause adverse effects.[28] A 2020 meta-analysis found that intra-articular injection of high molecular weight hyaluronic acid improved both pain and function in people with knee osteoarthritis.[29]”

I'm not educated on the topic to feel confident changing it, so just wanted to point that out. Pythagimedes (talk)

WP:VET
This is one of the most popular pages in WikiProject Veterinary medicine's scope. Very few editors watch WT:VET's pages, which means that questions may not be answered in a timely manner. If you are an active editor and interested in animals or veterinary medicine, please put WT:VET on your watchlist. Thank you, WhatamIdoing (talk) 19:59, 11 January 2021 (UTC)

Site of synthesis?
According to my physiology textbook (Guyton and Hall Textbook of Medical Physiology 14th Edition, See page 23) hyaluronic acid is synthesized in the Golgi apparatus, however, the article states that it is made in the plasma membrane, so which is right? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 37.239.20.3 (talk) 21:11, 11 May 2021 (UTC)

removing "vague" tag
Having consulted Stern [2009], I am removing a "vague" tag. I am changing text that used to read: "contributes significantly to cell proliferation and migration and also[vague] may be involved in the progression of ... malignant tumors.[6]". To follow the cited author more closely, it now reads: "..., and is involved ....".

Stern doesn't really beat around the bush on this topic.
 * p.5: "The deposition of HA ... confers motility ... correlating possibly with the movement of metastatic tumor cells." [Ok, fine, his cautious phrasing is slightly weak there.]
 * p.6: He cautiously suggests that "... cancer cells emulate that point in the cell cycle when cells synthesize increased levels of HA, round up, detach from their substratum, and leave temporarily the social contract in order to divide. Normal cells then degrade that HA .... Cancer cells have learned to eliminate this step ... to continue to divide endlessly.", and he cites Itano et al. [2002], which I am adding to this wiki article. Skipping a bit, we still find a cautious "may": "In most cases, it may be the failure to remove the HA coat ... that promotes malignant cell growth and the development of cancer."
 * p.7: He suggests that "HA developed late in evolution, at a time when stem cells had to move ... some distance ... for growth, proliferation, and differentiation.", a capability that was then "... commandeered by malignant cells."
 * p.8: "Clinically, striking increases of HA in the serum of many cancer patients has also been well documented." He cites Manley and Warren [1987], and Wilkinson et al. [1996]
 * p.9: "It is now widely recognized that HA is dramatically increased in most malignancies."
 * p.12: Stern finishes with: "... the recognition that HA is ... at the core of such interactions in malignancy."

(I love his p.6 remark: "Cancer cells do not do unusual things, but do usual things at unusual times.") John hanley parc (talk) 18:42, 3 April 2022 (UTC)

Etymology
Isn't hyalos a Latin word? ὕαλος is the Greek term. 173.88.246.138 (talk) 04:02, 16 October 2022 (UTC)