Talk:Hyeokgeose of Silla

I could not find any historical records saying "Park clan lost power over Silla by Kim clan''. Instead, I found many historical records saying many Kings(Both Kim, Seok) worshipped Bak Hyeokgeose as their ancestral shrine. B2V22BHARAT (talk) 21:41, 13 June 2019 (UTC)

-Yes, they never lost their power by using bone rank system I didn't change those facts. About the edit that you changed his family and identification as 'Inai no Mikoto/Inahi (稻飯命)' in the article, there is no evidence that both are related or either the same person. The Inai in record is "he become a Sahimoshinokami (鋤持神), (one of the god in Japan) after he went into the sea   while he was heading to the east". As a result, Inai is one of the Japanese god's records that collected by 日本書紀 collected. Also since he   headed towards the east,You should check out Mu (lost continent) or Hawaii instead of this article, if you believe this mythology. 2600:1700:50b3:1760:7c39:4371:8c2e:365 11:13, 26 September 2019 (UTC)

Wikipedia is not about putting your own idea. Please present your idea with reliable historical documents. B2V22BHARAT (talk) 19:58, 1 October 2019 (UTC)

And also You mention 古事記, both 日本書紀 and 古事記 are reliable source in Japanese record, but record about Korea is mostly off the track by   different view of how society works, for ex, when they only robbed several town in Silla, and killed village headman, they record are off the time and they record that as they killed king of Silla and take over whole Silla and Baekje and Goguryeo surrender. because their government far as Japan could get were Chiefdom level at that time, they thought village was one country. However, even that source are reliable, that doesn't mean the both persons are same person. Especially only record of 'Inai' in 古事記 is only one sentence "The Inai became a standing seat of Sea of Mothers'land". Yes, there is person called 'Inai' in reliable source, but that doesn't mean both are same person and what I asked is reliable source prove that. 2600:1700:50b3:1760:7c39:4371:8c2e:365 10:45, 30 September 2019 (UTC)

See this historical record from Shinsen Shōjiroku:

"新良貴 彦波瀲武鸕鷀草葦不合尊男 稻飯命之後也. 是出於 新良國王 稻飯命. 出於 新羅國王者 祖令, 新良貴 於新良國卽爲國主 稻飮命者新羅國王之祖也".

I think it's pretty straight forward.

According to Samguk sagi, Bak Hyeokgeose(朴赫居世) was the founder of the Silla kingdom (Originally called Saroguk) and according to Shinsen Shōjiroku, Inai no Mikoto (稻飯命) is recorded as the founding father(國主) of the Silla (新良) kingdom. So they are the same person. Also, please read these two articles that deal with Bak Hyeokgeose's origin.

http://www.dailywrn.com/sub_read.html?uid=6862 http://www.dailywrn.com/sub_read.html?uid=6930

Also, did you check these two sites that I mentioned?

https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/稲飯命 https://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/稻飯命

Both sites describe 稻飯命 as the ancestor of the Silla kingdom and link him to Korean last name Park (Korean surname).

I'm not here to dispute, but just putting what's written in the historical record, that's all.

If you have any questions, please keep asking, because as a descendant of Park family, I also want to know the true origin of Bak Hyeokgeose. Samguk sagi described him as if he had been born from an egg, but I think it's a lie and he probably came from an outside forces and ruled six chiefdoms in Korea. B2V22BHARAT (talk) 19:58, 1 October 2019 (UTC)

Foreign wikipedia is not a reliable source by the way, because they usually not stay in neutral. You can check View history of those two articles, User "Aitok I " who describe himself as Japanese in In Japanese Wikipedia and he also edit some part of article in Japanese Wiki, Edit himself the almost whole article in Chinese Wikipedia throughout September 2018 to July 2019, which use to 'Not' describe 稻飯命 as related to king of Silla.

If you think that editor "Aitok I" is wrong, you can improve this article https://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/稻飯命 by citing actual historical records that say 稻飯命 is not related to Bak Hyeokgeose, and hence Korean surname Park (Korean surname). B2V22BHARAT (talk) 04:28, 3 October 2019 (UTC) 日本書紀 is official record,but they through a lot of verification before it believes to be an true, because of main purpose of they wrote and organized this book is to Justify their Authenticity to hold their power. Known example would be Empress Jingū who they said captured whole Korean penensula and. Read this document and check that 日本書紀 is biased or not especially in their Justification. Or Emperor Jimmu, who suppose to be a younger brother of 稲飯命 is 600 years older than him. Shinsen Shōjiroku is an record of list of genealogy that use source from 日本書紀 because that is official record either it's right or not and that doesn't make this as historical evidence itself.

About top two article you posted, is totally against your opinion. on first article, the title '일본시조 神武王은 신라국왕 祖令의 후예' meaning " Japan   ancestor 神武王 is an descendant of 祖令 the king of Silla." Sentences in second article '어쨌든 이 같은 설들은 어디까지나 신무왕을 비롯한 일본왕계가 한반도에서 건너간 우리 한민족의 후예들임을 확실히 말해 주는 것이 다.' meaning " However, these theories clearly indicate that the Japanese kingdoms, including King Shinmu, are descendants of the Korean people who   crossed the sea from Korean Peninsula.

If you read the first article, http://www.dailywrn.com/sub_read.html?uid=6862 Kim Juho(김주호) mentions 5 times that 稻飯命 is the same person as 朴赫居世.

1. 일본시조 神武王은 신라국왕 祖令의 후예, 성씨록 고사기 일본서기가 입증, 박혁거세의 동생.

2. ‘... 稻飮命之後也, 是於新羅國, 卽爲國王. 稻飮命者, 新羅國王之祖也’. 이 기록은 이나히노미꼬도(稻飮命)가 신라국왕의 시조가 되었다는 것이다. 신라의 시조왕은 박혁거세(朴赫居世)이다. 따라서 ‘도반명’, ‘도음명(稻飮命)’은 신라의 시조 왕이라는 점에서 같은 인물 박혁거세를 말한 것이라 본다.

3. 여기에 이나히노미꼬도(稻氷命)는『일본서기』나 『성씨록』의 ‘이나히노미꼬도(稻飮命)’를 말하는 것이다. 그 ‘氷’과 ‘飮’은 다같이 ‘이나히노미꼬도’로서 같은 사람인 박혁거세를 말하는 것이다.

4. 여기서 4남 와까미께누미꼬도와 맏형 이쓰세노미꼬도 둘이서만 바다를 건너간 것으로 되어 있고, 다른 형제 2남(稻氷命= 朴赫居世)과 3남 미께누노미꼬도(御毛沼命)는 바다를 건너가지 않고 부모와 더불어 한국(신라)에 남아 있었다고 봐야겠다.

5. 둘째아들 되는 ‘이나히노미꼬도(稻飮<氷>命=朴赫居世)’가 어머니의 나라이기 때문에 ‘바닷가로 가버렸다’고 한 것은 일본에서 있었던 행동을 말한 것이 아니라 신라에서의 행동을 말한 것이다. 만일 이것이 일본에서 있었던 일을 기술한 것이라면 ‘바다를 건너서 어머니의 나라로 가기 위해 배를 탔다’고 했을 것이다.

Also, in the second article, http://www.dailywrn.com/sub_read.html?uid=6930

1. 그런데 『고사기』에는 2남 이나히도 미꼬도(稻氷命)가 신라국 시조라고 했다. 신라국 시조는 박혁거세(朴赫居世)이다. 그런 만큼 2남 稻氷命=稻飯命(혹은 稻飮命)은 다 같은 한 인물로서 박혁거세 임이 분명하다.

Also, Aitok I. 稻飯命（日语：稲飯命〔稻飯命〕／いない（或いないい） の みこと/いいなひめ〔いなひ（或いないひ） の みこと/いいなひめ〕 Inapi no mikoto，稻飯姬命）為《日本書紀》裡的記述，《古事記》則記作稻冰命或彥稻冰命，是神武天皇（日本第1代天皇）的皇兄，也是新良國國主，也是新羅國王（朴姓）之祖. https://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/稻飯命

B2V22BHARAT (talk) 04:28, 3 October 2019 (UTC)

As you thinking that Hyeokgeose is came from egg is 'wrong', that is misunderstanding of Origin myth. 난생신화, is an type of myth that appears in    origin myth of Dongmyeong of Goguryeo, Suro of Geumgwan Gaya, and Talhae of Silla. Korean thought that bird is mysterious/holy Creature that connecting heaven and land, therefore many Korean royal family use it to enhance one's status that they are came from egg, and showing they(royal family) are different from another.

https://encykorea.aks.ac.kr/Contents/Item/E0011702 Check this source, this is article of 'Encyclopedia of Korean Culture' that run by Academy of Korean Studies.

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1700:50B3:1760:6594:906C:E27B:83C (talk) 01:19, 3 October 2019 (UTC)

I didn't say that Hyeokgeose being born from an egg is "wrong". There are many birth mythologies surrounding ancient gods, such as Zeus as part of a divinization process. For example, white horse appears in Bak Hyeokgeose's birth mythology, 진한(辰韓) 땅의 여섯 마을 우두머리들이 알천 상류에 모였다. 군왕을 정하여 받들고자 하여 높은 곳에 올라 멀리 남쪽을 바라보았다. 그러자 양산 기슭에 있는 나정이라는 우물가에 번개와 같은 이상한 기운이 드리워진 흰말이 엎드려 절하고 있었다. 찾아가서 그곳을 살폈더니 자줏빛 알이 있었고 말은 사람들을 보자 길게 울고는 하늘로 올라갔다. 그 알을 깨뜨리자 사내아이가 나오매, 경이롭게 여기면서 동천 샘에 목욕시키니 온몸에서 빛살을 뿜는 것이었다. 이때 새와 짐승이 더불어 춤추고 하늘과 땅이 흔들리고 해와 달이 청명하였다. 이로 말미암아 혁거세왕이라 이름을 짓고 위호(位號)주 01)는 거슬한(居瑟邯)이라고 하였다. but it can be also found in the Westerne culture. White horse (mythology)

If you check one of Bak Hyeokgeose's important subordinate named Hogong, he was from Japan. 三國史記 卷第一 新羅本紀第一 始祖赫居世, 「瓠公者未詳其族姓本倭人初以瓠繫腰渡海而來故稱瓠公」And Bak Hyeokgeose(朴赫居世) is a four-letter name which is the same as Japanese name convention. Also, there appears to be Silla prince named Amenohiboko, who is suspected to be one of Park princes from Silla, who settled in Japan during the era of Emperor Suinin, around the 3rd or 4th century. He is currently the ancestral god of Tajima Province and is enshrined in the Shinto Shrine (出石神社) at Toyooka. I think all of these historical records imply that Bak Hyeokgeose came from Japan, not Korea. B2V22BHARAT (talk) 04:28, 3 October 2019 (UTC)

"어쨌든 이 같은 설들은 어디까지나 신무왕을 비롯한 일본왕계가 한반도에서 건너간 우리 한민족의 후예들임을 확실히 말해 주는 것이다."

You posted that supporting Japanese royal family is origin by Korea and saying opposite of that, that's ironic. I can't believe that you insisting opinion that Official Japanese Historian don't even care about, by using evidence from just part of religion news article that stand against your opinion overall, and all evidence you can find in the whole internet is Wikipedia and 2 article of who saying "The   history of the Korean people are began when they ruled over the winds like of Jesus who stopped the storm." http://www.dailywrn.com/4993