Talk:Ipswich/Archive 2

Ancient House
Someone with more time than me should probably add some information about the Ancient House. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.165.101.124 (talk • contribs) 16:02, 17 November 2004 (UTC)

Photo positioning
The photo of the marina makes the text around it wrap badly (on my version of IE - 6.0.28 anyway). Does anyone know how to improve this? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Phil Holmes (talk • contribs) 12:10, 19 August 2005 (UTC)

Royal Philharmonic orchestra - Regent Theatre, Ipswich
Would it not be worth noting in the culture section that the Royal Philharmonic orchestra uses the Ipswich's Regents Theatre as one of it's main residencies, and that Julian Lloyd Webber and other such famous classical artists play at the theatre. The Regency having excellent acoustics and being regarded as a great venue for orchestras and classical music. [] — Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.211.214.125 (talk • contribs) 13:17, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

Famous residents - Veronica Lake
The 1940s Hollywood film star Veronica Lake lived in Ipswich in her late forties, according to her Wikipedia article and the biography Peekaboo by Jeff Lenburg seen online in Google Books. She moved from Florida to living in a flat in Ipswich from the summer of 1969 to March 1971, but returned to Ipswich and later got married for the fourth time to a Royal Navy captain in June 1972, divorcing after one year. She liked the reserve and friendliness of Ipswich people. In June 1973 while awaiting her divorce decree she returned to America but died there from the effects of alcoholism in early July 1973 aged fifty. The Ipswich Star online article "Hollywood star in town" 21 July 2010, says she lived at 137 Valley Road before moving to a flat in Marlborough Court in Henley Road. When she was in hospital in London one of the nurses had Ipswich connections. 2.97.216.88 (talk) 08:01, 7 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Do you have published sources for this. They will be needed.Charles (talk) 10:43, 23 March 2016 (UTC)
 * The published sources have already been given above: Veronica Lake's Wikipedia Article, the biography Peekaboo by Jeff Lenburg, and the Ipswich Star article "Hollywood star in town" published 21 July 2010. 2.97.217.196 (talk) 10:57, 23 March 2016 (UTC)
 * An entry in the American magazine Motor Boating of February 1942, seen on Google Books, has a news item saying that her future fourth husband was a prominent yacht-broker and agent in New York city who had just been commissioned as a lieutenant in the Royal Navy. So I wonder if she came to Ipswich due to his influence, and that the story given in the Ipswich Star about a nurse's connection with an Ipswich pub some distance away, which seems rather contrived in my opinion, may have been an attempt to get publicity for a pub which went out of business and has now been demolished. 92.24.176.26 (talk) 13:40, 6 April 2016 (UTC)
 * I don't see the reasoning for including this. Wikipedia is not a directory of celebrity addresses; unless her presence had some notable cultural impact on the town, it is just insignificant and trivial. Keri (talk) 15:52, 11 May 2016 (UTC)

Something about Ipswich parks?
The good thing that Ipswich has compared to other British towns and cities is the large number of parks. There are very large parks - Christchurch, Holywells, and Chantry - but lots of smaller parks also. The greenery makes Ipswich a nice place to live. The large parks were given to the town by 19th. century businessmen. 92.24.129.225 (talk) 10:17, 13 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Please do find published sources on the parks and add them in.Charles (talk) 10:26, 13 March 2016 (UTC)
 * The Category:Parks and open spaces in Ipswich page lists several parks, although it is not inclusive, missing out Chantry Park, one of the largest parks in Ipswich, and other large parks such as Bourne Park. and also Bixley Heath and Rushmere Common. I am not sure how to include all these in the article. The Districts section of the article needs tidying up, and it does not include everything in the Category:Ipswich Districts page. 92.28.241.86 (talk) 08:26, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

The major parks are Christchurch Park and Arboretum, Hollywells Park, and Chantry Park. Other significant parks are Bourne Park, Broomhill Park, Gippeswyk Park, Landseer Park, and Alexandra Park. Open spaces include Bixley Heath, Rushmere Common, Orwell Country Park, Purdis Heath, and the Old Cemetery. There are many smaller parks, recreation grounds, and allotments. 2.97.217.196 (talk) 10:51, 23 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Two Ipswich parks are Grade II listed: Chantry Park https://historicengland.org.uk/listing/the-list/list-entry/1000271, and Christchurch Park https://historicengland.org.uk/listing/the-list/list-entry/1000227 , as is the Old And New Cemetery https://historicengland.org.uk/listing/the-list/list-entry/1001572 . The links give a lot of detailed information. Christchurch Mansion itself is Grade I listed https://www.historicengland.org.uk/listing/the-list/list-entry/1037784 92.29.116.146 (talk) 09:14, 4 April 2016 (UTC)

Some more information about the beginnings of Chantry Park, http://www.ipswich-lettering.co.uk/chantrypark.html The Ipswich Lettering website is very good about the history of very many places in the town, and the website author has clearly put a lot of work into it. It includes an extensive list of links to other websites about Ipswich, and a long bibliography. 2.97.221.246 (talk) 09:46, 5 April 2016 (UTC)

Three museums in Ipswich, not two
I have changed the wording in the culture section from saying that the town has two museums, to three museums. Anyone who has been around Christchurch Mansion will clearly see that it is a museum, even though it does not have the word museum in its name. It has art galleries also, but these are subsidiary to it being a museum. 2.97.221.246 (talk) 10:24, 5 April 2016 (UTC)

Why has someone deleted all the information about Ipswich parks from this page?
I spent a lot of time compiling the information about Ipswich parks and open spaces here on the talk pages, although I had not got around to putting it in its final form into the main page. Yet now I see someone had deleted it! Could it please be put back. 92.24.185.29 (talk) 08:46, 11 May 2016 (UTC)
 * When did you add the information? Keri (talk) 09:16, 11 May 2016 (UTC)

✅ I see it now; it was archived by a bot. I have restored it to this page (in chronological order, see above). I have also changed the bot's instruction so that it will not archive sections here that are less than 2 months old. Keri (talk) 15:42, 11 May 2016 (UTC)

RfC: Famous residents

 * The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Per the essay Famous Residents I propose that we use these 3 criteria for inclusion on the Ipswich article: Inclusions must meet all 3 criteria. Keri (talk) 10:13, 11 May 2016 (UTC)
 * 1) Notability: The person must be notable enough to have an article in Wikipedia.
 * 2) Residence: The person must be or must have been a true resident of Ipswich itself; not a seasonal or short-term resident; not a resident of a nearby locale or community. Such residence must be verifiable through cited, reliable sources.
 * 3) Significance to Ipswich: The person's notability must derive from the location OR the person must have derived the basis for their notability in that location OR the person must hold some significance to the location in general. Examples: an artist who was notable for painting scenes of the town; an author who wrote a book about the town; a singer who developed his/her talent and/or was "discovered" in Ipswich while they were living there; a professional athlete who developed his/her talent in a local athletic team; a mass-murderer who lived in the town when he/she murdered his/her victims; an actor who establishes his/her notability prior to living in the town, but is now a resident who uses his/her notability to benefit local charities or becomes a public servant.
 * OPPOSE why, well 1) most co-operative editors tag as reference needed before unilaterally removing passages from articles, 2) they discusss their concerns on the talk page, 3) the essay (yes essay) are opinions of some editors of wikipedia not policy 4) if the genuine concerns had been left as tagged (re 1)) I could easily go back and argue (or not) for each individual but now the research needed takes longer and therefor I end up administrating not editing, (which in some cases is exactly what the editor wants - renaming V.C. winners to first name and family name only, a classic example) and 5) is not an enclyopedia trying to portray an image of an event / place / story by facts and this list though not totally correct, and would improve with some culling, painted a story of the town of Ipswich. Wallis Simpson got her divorce finalised here, before she went onto marry some bod or other, a fact that puts Ipswich into its historical context. There are ways of improving artilces, there is being bold, and there is this is best, lets do, then maybe discuss. Apologies - annoyed I do not have the time or space to go back and I feel the article is now less informative than it was. Edmund Patrick –  confer 06:58, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
 * The section has been tagged as requiring references since at least June of last year. WP:FAMERES is an essay, which is why a RfC has been asked for here. The list was atrocious: a good example being "Ralph Fiennes was born in an Ipswich hospital while his parents were living near Southwold but did not live in the town." Keri (talk) 08:53, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Also, your oppose does not address the merits or otherwise of the Notability/Residence/Significance criteria, but rather your annoyance that additions to an encyclopedia article need research and verification before inclusion. Keri (talk) 09:01, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
 * As far as I can see not all that have been removed were tagged and no I am not supporting a list that was in some cases as you say atrocious, which I agreed with, but that a prod to editors was in order. I am not going to argue about the merits or not of the essay, other than to say, it is a good example of a structure (wikipedia the free to edit enclyopedia) which through time has imposed upon it rules and regulations that become part of the control tools for the elite. It is an enclyopedia and as such each place may well have to have different criteria for famous residence based on the prime object, enable someone to learn abd be informed about a place by reading its article in Wikipedia. Or better still deny all famous residents, easier that way. Edmund Patrick – confer 06:25, 13 May 2016 (UTC)


 * Oppose Sometimes 'famous residents' become bloated and pointless, however imposing these rules does not seem the answer, nor are you necessarily fulfilling them. How does Wolsey's fame derive from Ipswich? How would Dickens' fame derive from various later homes in Kent? Does everyone who is worthy of note have a WP page? I concur with most of what E Patrick says, but judgement rather than rules is what is needed to establish substantive connection to the place. Pincrete (talk) 22:26, 18 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Good points, well made. Thanks for the input. Keri (talk) 10:28, 19 May 2016 (UTC)


 * Oppose, largely per Pincrete. Listing famous people related to Ipswich is in principle a good idea IMO, but Pincrete raised some good points about problems this can run into. Sincerely, Marksomnian. (talk) 05:34, 26 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Comment I have run into this problem now on many place-name articles. There appears to be no rules, no consistency of who to include in a list of "famous people from..." I don't know the background arguing of this specific problem but the inclusion criteria aren't a bad start. Also Each entry must have an exterior link (not in inline wikilink) that shows notability while in the designated location. I'm not saying any of these reasons are wrong or right, but I see "famous people from..." with their linkage being, They were notable someplace else but retired there, simply born there, simply died there. Things like a famous mathematician in Germany who then went to a city in Austria, then a city in France, and finally retired for 10 years in a city in Belgium, so he gets listed at all four locations. This is kind of crazy imho. There needs to be tighter parameters so every editor can easily see whom should be placed in a list. There will always be exceptions but they should be few and far between. Fyunck(click) (talk) 19:27, 31 May 2016 (UTC)


 * The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Parks
As was pointed out at Talk:Ipswich/Archive 2 there are some missing parks, I have started Draft:Chantry Park and Draft:Landseer Park.  Crouch, Swale  ( talk ) 13:59, 27 January 2019 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion: You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 09:21, 18 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Coat of Arms of Ipswich.jpg

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 22:37, 9 June 2019 (UTC)
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Good article nomination
, I see you recently nominated this article as a good article. As a friendly suggestion, it may make sense to undo the nomination for now, and continue to work on the article before renominating. At a casual glance there are five "citation needed" tags, and numerous other places in which they are needed (e.g., paragraphs lacking a single citation). This includes at least one controversial (and probably false) statement regarding Sutton Hoo (that it "is probably Rædwald's grave"; see longer discussion here). There are also multiple one-sentence paragraphs, which in places (particularly in "Culture") read as undeveloped thoughts in a list-style format. In short, I think the article would likely be quick failed in its current format, and it would be helpful to continue to work on the article before a subsequent nomination. --Usernameunique (talk) 04:07, 16 April 2020 (UTC)


 * On second thought, given what I've outlined above, I'm going to go ahead and remove the nomination myself. But LakeKnowledge, please feel free to add your thoughts, or to reach out for any advice. --Usernameunique (talk) 07:46, 16 April 2020 (UTC)

Lead concensus
Will other editors please bring a census to the lead of Ipswich...a historic county town in Suffolk isn't really grammatical sense as there is no such thing as a historic county town when although it is the historic county town it is still one...and is by the sea so has a port so port town and county town sounds fine by me... and other editors... RailwayJG (talk) 22:46, 11 July 2021 (UTC)

RailwayJG (talk) 22:47, 11 July 2021 (UTC)
 * It probably should mention that its the county town but I'm less sure if "historic" is needed since pretty much any town could be described as being "historic".  Crouch, Swale  ( talk ) 08:10, 12 July 2021 (UTC)


 * +1--Phil Holmes (talk) 13:32, 12 July 2021 (UTC)
 * We should also avoid suggesting that it's no longer the county town (its status being purely historic). Certes (talk) 14:43, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

Exactly it's not a historic county town if it said the historic county town of Suffolk then fair enough but ahistoric county town could mean it is no longer too RailwayJG (talk) 18:05, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

Merger proposal
I propose to merge Ipswich Built-up area into Ipswich. The reason for this is that "Ipswich Built-up area" is a non-notable statistical construct which is not discussed in detail in multiple reliable independent sources. Even if we construe the topic more broadly, the concept of a single named conurbation or built-up area covering the settlements listed at Ipswich Built-up area has not received significant coverage.

As to the argument that Ipswich is an inappropriate merge target because Ipswich Built-up area covers areas outside Ipswich, this doesn't hold up. The Ipswich article is for discussing the town of Ipswich in relation to it's surroundings, and it's typical for town articles to discuss town boundaries, urban sprawl, neighbouring villages, and the wider area. It thus provides an ideal context in which to briefly mention this statistical construct. I can't see any alternative merge target other than perhaps Suffolk, and I believe if Ipswich Built-up area went to AfD it would be closed as "Redirect to Ipswich" Pontificalibus 06:44, 11 April 2021 (UTC)


 * I'd support this - presumably a brief summary of the content could go in either the Districts or Governance section, with possibly a brief mention in the lead? Kesgrave is mentioned in Districts already. Both sections could use an update as it happens. Blue Square Thing (talk) 07:19, 11 April 2021 (UTC)
 * I should add that a search for "ipswich built-up area" (with or without the hyphen) doesn't return much - some repetitive recording of the population of 180,000, but otherwise I fail to find anything interesting discussing it. The EADT - the regional newspaper - has nothing really about it either - there's an article that notes a plan to keep Kesgrave distinct from the Ipswich built-up area. Neither the Ipswich plan or the Suffolk Coastal legacy plan (adopted 2020) mention it and the area covering Kesgrave, Rushmere and Martlesham is described simply as "East of Ipswich" by SC, which is a nice nod I suppose. The Martlesham Neighbourhood Plan talks about Kesgrave being the edge of Ipswich and Martlesham wanting to maintain the gap; the Kesgave Neighbourhood Plan stresses the need to maintain gaps between Ipswich, Rushmere and Martlesham so as not to become an East of Ipswich suburb. None of these documents seem to mention the Ipswich built-up area, with or without the hyphen. There is a striking lack of mentions. Blue Square Thing (talk) 11:11, 11 April 2021 (UTC)


 * Maybe this is like Birkenhead Built-up area where there should remain separate articles due to multiple somewhat distinct settlements though I'm fine with a merge.  Crouch, Swale  ( talk ) 08:44, 11 April 2021 (UTC)


 * Support I support a merge here, it does contain parts in other districts but not enough to be really multi-centred. I dont think Suffolk would make sense as a merge target either. Eopsid (talk) 10:32, 11 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Isn't Woodbridge enough to make it multi-centred enough?  Crouch, Swale  ( talk ) 20:56, 17 April 2021 (UTC)
 * OK, I've added some differences between the 2001 and 2011 census.  Crouch, Swale  ( talk ) 07:38, 3 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Oppose I oppose a merger here. I think there is information to be said about the built-up area of Ipswich that wouldn't be relevant on neither the Ipswich nor the Suffolk page. Details of boundaries, population, influence ect. The page will be more filled with time with people's contributions. LakeKnowledge (talk) 17:39, 17 June 2021 (UTC)


 * Oppose - This is similar to the discussion on the Norwich Built-up area. The references are valid and use government data. It passes as I'm sure some will say Wikipedia Geography some areas don't need a letter or article from a newspaper saying the built up area and given Ipswich extends to include surrounding towns and villages I agree it passes so keep. RailwayJG (talk) 18:38, 17 June 2021


 * Oppose - it is a valid article and platform for information for anyone researching Ipswich and its surrounding areas. Edmund Patrick – confer 06:12, 18 June 2021 (UTC)


 * Oppose  as per LakeKnowledge and RailwayJG. Leutha (talk) 12:55, 15 July 2021 (UTC)