Talk:Iveco Massif

Land Rover Defender
"The Massif is essentially a revamped and restyled version of the Santana Motor Company’s PS-10, itself a derivative of the Land Rover Defender which Santana formerly built under licence. " So this is nothing more than a Land Rover Defender? What does JLR and Tata Motors have to say about this?--Degen Earthfast (talk) 16:33, 26 August 2009 (UTC)
 * What should they say? --Typ932 T&middot;C 17:18, 26 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Well it certainly doesn't qualify in my book as a Defender clone and I have therefore removed it from the Land Rover and Land Rover Defender pages. Can you provide a reliable third party source which shows why it should be thus listed? --Biker Biker (talk) 17:49, 26 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Its derived form Santana which is LR basically, most technics are from LR I think, but engines are Fiat ,JLR is Tata owned and Fiat also have JV with them, and such big company doesn't make any clones/whatever without apprrovement, I see nothing strange with this article --Typ932 T&middot;C 17:57, 26 August 2009 (UTC)


 * How about the Obvious copywrite infringements? And if there are none shouldn't this article reflect so?--Degen Earthfast (talk) 01:40, 3 September 2009 (UTC)


 * If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck,etc. It is what it is, an obvious clone of the LR Defender. You can change what you like, but...--71.246.30.208 (talk) 02:17, 8 October 2009 (UTC)


 * What copyright infringments? Santana builds PS-10 under license (As stated in the article) from LR, and Massif is an improvement of PS-10. Thus it is fully legal. If this was a software, this would be like a legitimate fork from an old version —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.96.54.29 (talk) 07:22, 23 June 2010 (UTC)


 * Iveco's own web site appears to dispute some of this article: http://web.iveco.com/en-us/press-room/kit/Pages/the_massif_in_brief.aspx 21:29, 22 February 2011 (UTC)  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.83.168.252 (talk)


 * Iveco don't say it's derived from a LR, but then, they wouldn't, would they? They do say it's a version of the Santana vehicle, albeit "completely revised" – and you can be sure if they really had developed a wholly new vehicle they'd say so. They try to make a connection with the Campagnolo, but this is no more than "follows in the tyre tracks" and so on.  Their marketing page doesn't conflict anywhere with the material in the article, and I think in effect this actually confirms that material.  The Massif clearly has a continuous line of derivation from the Series, however diluted it may have become along the way – it even retains some Series features that most of LR's own various Series derivatives did not, such as leaf springs and part-time 4x4.  Richard New Forest (talk) 23:13, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

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