Talk:Jamaat Ali Shah

Copyright issues
With the following sites:
 * ameer-e-millat-on-quaid-e-azam-m-a-jinnah
 * EstAllIndiaSun.htm
 * PJLSS_2005_33-36.pdf
 * Artical-5-Vol-12-1-2011.pdf
 * sayyid-jamaat-ali-shah-ra1841-1951.html

Per WP:DCV, I've deleted the infringing material.  Onel 5969  TT me 22:15, 27 August 2015 (UTC)

Name
ScholarM moved page Jamaat Ali Shah to Syed Jamaat Ali Shah, saying that "Syed part of [his] name".

If this is the case, please can we have some citations in the article that show that Syed was part of his name. And please can the article be amended so that it starts "Syed Jamaat Ali Shah" instead of "Jamaat Ali Shah".

By the way, does anyone have any evidence (in the form of citations to reliable sources) that show that Syed was not part of his name? -- Toddy1 (talk) 12:49, 17 June 2020 (UTC)


 * By the way, Syed or Sayeed can be part of someone's name. An exclusive holiday company called The English Manner had someone of that name, who entertained people in the British House of Commons. -- Toddy1 (talk) 12:55, 17 June 2020 (UTC)


 * I note that a different Jamaat Ali Shah was Pakistan's Indus Waters Commissioner until 30 September 2011. He is sometimes referred to as Syed Jamaat Ali Shah. -- Toddy1 (talk) 17:13, 17 June 2020 (UTC)
 * I think this Official website may help. (talk) 18:27, 17 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Dear ScholarM, I hope you are well. Based on the source you attach above, I am now sure you are wrong and that Sayed is actually only an honorific in this case (Jamaat Ali Shah). Unless you can demonstrate otherwise, you might want to change the page title back to how it was before you re-inserted Sayed. Your thoughts please. Best wishes, George Custer&#39;s Sabre (talk) 18:37, 17 June 2020 (UTC)


 * This page says in English translation, "Born sometime between the years 1830-40, he was named 'Jama'at Ali' by his respected father, Sayyid Karim Shah." -- Toddy1 (talk) 18:59, 17 June 2020 (UTC)


 * Then fine Toddy1. Please enlighten me for more understanding  that when Syed is part of name and when it is not ? What is the difference between Sir Syed and Syed Jamaat Ali? Actually, most of the reliable sources in this article have mentioned him as Syed. His family is also known by that name and that is obvious that Syed Jamat Ali Shah would have used in writing as part of his name during his education. His father and son are also known by this name. Moreover, as per south Asian traditions actual names are given during childhood and title of caste/clan/tribe are added during education. ScholarM (talk) 19:10, 17 June 2020 (UTC)
 * There are two policies that may go against each other WP:COMMONNAME and MOS:ISLAMHON. In my opinion, the former is more important than the latter. -- Toddy1 (talk) 20:32, 17 June 2020 (UTC)

Problem with citation
I am having difficulties with the following:
 * Between 16 and 19 March 1925, three hundred Sunni scholars at the meeting at Jamia Naeemia Moradabad, on March 16–19, 1925 set up an organization by the name of Jamiyyat-e-Aliyah-al Markaziah commonly known as All India Sunni Conference (AISC). At its inaugural session, Syed Jamaat Ali Shah was elected its president with Maulana Naeem-ud-Deen Muradabadi as General Secretary to unite the Sunni majority of India on one platform.


 * The presidential address of Syed Jamaat Ali Shah, at the first annual AISC session, he surveyed the political, social and religious problems of the Muslims of the Indian sub-continent and condemned the massacre of innocent Muslims in Hijaz Arabia, carried out by the descendants of King Saud. He took a stand against Wahabism and condemned its fundamental doctrines. He stressed on acquiring modern education and establishing brotherhood among the Muslims and spoke against the un-Islamic culture and customs in the Muslim society.

The citation is really to a book Pakistan: The Struggle within, by John Wilson. Page 87 mentions the events at Moradabad in 1925, but otherwise does not support the above. Unless someone can point me at pages in the source that support the above, I propose to delete it from the article. Please quote page numbers. -- Toddy1 (talk) 20:21, 17 June 2020 (UTC)