Talk:Joseph Bruno

Police/Travel
Somebody's written a very not neutral piece here. Two suggestions: 1. Make it neutral 2. Consider moving to a separate document, considering that it talks a lot more about people other than Mr. Bruno

- unsigned

It appears as though the piece about police and travel is now extensively sourced. Unless there are further disputes, it may be time to remove the 'missing citations' and possibly the 'unbalanced' tags.

Also, I don't know how to wikiformat footnotes, but one of the unreferenced comments, the one quoting bruno as saying that blacks and hispanics have 'got their hands out' appears in the article "Governor Criticizes A Chief Ally" By James Dao Published April 8, 1995 in the New York Times. link

Dialectric 18:00, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

Camera Shy
I didn't get a reply to an emailed request for a photograph that could be used in this article from the majority leader. patsw 13:19, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

neutrality
I'm removing the non-neutral heading for the article, leaving it for the police controversy section, though maybe it should be removed from there as well, unless someone wants to comment here on why that section remains non-neutral.

Dialectric (talk) 20:39, 22 February 2008 (UTC)


 * I placed the tag at the top of the page initially, I haven't seen anything convincing that the Police Surveillance section is unbalanced or NPOV, so I'll remove the tag. MrPrada (talk) 03:03, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Lt. Governor
Bruno is pretty going to be the Lt. Governor although would this be in an acting capacity?--Trulexicon (talk) 03:56, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Neither. In his role as Temporary President of the Senate, he will perform the duties of the Lieutenant Governor -- which, Constitutionally, are a) preside over the Senate, and b) take over in the case of the Governor's incapacity.  Which, you may note, is exactly what he does now when Paterson is absent from the Senate chambers.  A perhaps unresolved question is whether he would get to cast a tie-breaking vote in the Senate in addition to his normal vote as a Senator.  Powers T 18:55, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Bruno would become Governor (not Acting Governor), if Paterson didn't complete the current term (2007-10) & Bruno was still Senate President. Is that correct? GoodDay (talk) 15:48, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
 * No, in the event he became Governor, Bruno would no longer be a member of the Senate. I don't know if that Constitutionally mandated, but as matter of practicality, there's no chance he wouldn't resign.  Powers T 22:12, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
 * That's what I mean, Bruno would become Governor (not just Acting Governor), therefore he'd ceased to be Senate President. GoodDay (talk) 15:02, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes, I must have misread your comment. Powers T 23:35, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

From Article IV, Section 6 of the NY State Constitution: The Senate leader would return to his/her office as Senate President upon special election of a new Governor/Lieutenant governor (no more than than 3 months after the vacancy of both offices).

-- Yellowdesk (talk) 01:34, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I stand completely corrected. Shoulda done my homework.  Powers T 02:15, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Sooo, if Governor Paterson doesn't complete his term? the governorship would be vacant until at least 'January 1, 2011'. Cool. GoodDay (talk) 18:27, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
 * No, read the section quoted above. A special election would be held within three months to fill the office of the Governor and Lieutenant Governor.  Powers T 20:39, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
 * But, while Governor Paterson is serving, there'll be no 'special election' for Lieutenant Governor. PS- Would you check out my concerns on the Arkansas Governors Jim Guy Tucker and Mike Huckabee? GoodDay (talk) 23:32, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

I have removed all references to Bruno being "Acting Lieutenant Governor" because no such office exists. There is no Lt. Gov. in NY until the next gubernatorial election (see Article IV, Section 6, Clause 2 of the NY State Constitution). Bruno is simply performing the duties of Lt. Gov. since there is no Lt. Gov. currently. Referring to Bruno as "Acting Lieutenant Governor" could lead to confusion regarding the issue of succession. While the Lt. Gov. became Governor when Eliot Spitzer resigned, the "temporary president of the senate" would only become Acting Governor if Governor Paterson fails to complete the current gubernatorial term. Bruno would serve as Acting Governor until the winner of a special election, which would take place at the time of the next general election that is at least three months away from the time that both the Governorship and Lt. Governorship became vacant (see Article IV, Section 6, Clause 2 of the NY State Constitution). Please do not add the term "Acting Lieutenant Governor" back into the article or into the Infobox. --SMP0328. (talk) 02:30, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

I am a native born resident of New York State, and I plan to reinstate references to Senator Bruno as being acknowledged as Acting Lieutenant Governor. He's being acknowledged as such and another article on here refers to him as Acting Lieutenant Governor. In the local television press he's being acknowledged as Acting Lieutenant Governor. So therefore I would reinstate the references here deleted by another user if I can obtain a majority vote. ESCStudent774441 (talk) 03:20, 27 March 2008 (UTC)


 * What makes things even more confusing? New York counts it's 'Acting Lt Govs' as Lt Govs - Thus the reason Paterson is listed as having been the 74th Lt Gov, not the 69th. GoodDay (talk) 15:38, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
 * My primary problem with using the term "Acting Lieutenant Governor" is that implies that if Governor Paterson fails to complete the current gubernatorial term, then Bruno would become Governor. In reality Bruno would become Acting Governor pending a special election. As for whether Paterson was the 74th or the 69th Lt. Gov., I would say he was the 69th. Also note that the media have referred to Bruno as the 75th Lt. Gov. or as "Acting Lieutenant Governor." Finally, consider this: does anyone claim that Dick Chaney is or was the 44th President, because he was Acting President twice? --SMP0328. (talk) 18:13, 18 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Any consensus on this?
 * Today changed "Acting" Lt. Gov. to "10th Majority Leader of the New York State" in the info box.  Now "10th" is silly, the list only goes back to 1939.  In the text, SMP0328 replace dit with "temporary president of the senate", and changed the section title from "Acting Lieutenant Governor" to "Performing Lieutenant Governor's duties".
 * The Lt. Gov.'s official web page http://www.state.ny.us/governor/ltgov/ now redirects to http://www.state.ny.us/governor/index.html which is the Gov.'s page.
 * The state home page http://www.ny.gov/ removed the Lt. Gov. link, which was between the Gov. and Comptroller.
 * Who controls those web pages? Is it partisan? Political, that is, as Bruno is the only Repub. in state office, right?
 * The page needs some edit. It is still has the Lt. Gov box in the footer.  But the the info box at the top has the weird "10th" edit.
 * Maybe it is all semantic. If Gov. Paterson goes out of town, will Bruno be the Acting Gov.? Or "performing the duties of governor".  I think it is exactly the same thing.
 * I am going to revert to "acting", consistent with other Wikipedia articles.
 * If the decision is to remove "acting" then change the footer and leave out "10th".
 * - Colfer2 (talk) 18:56, 18 March 2008 (UTC)


 * The reason Bruno is the 10th Majority Leader is that the current State constitution of New York was adopted in 1939. If you want to remove "10th", I have no objection, but such numbering is not uncommon. In New York the term is "temporary president of the senate" not "Acting Lieutenant Governor." If the Vice-Presidency is vacant, nobody would refer to the Speaker of the United States House of Representatives or the President pro tempore of the United States Senate as "Acting Vice-President." The infobox of the Dick Cheney article does not, and should not, have a section for the time he was Acting President, because he did not occupy the office of President. Finally, the way the article is currently worded is clearer than the version that had references to "Acting Lieutenant Governor", because "Acting Lieutenant Governor" implies that Bruno would become Governor if Governor Paterson fails to finish the current gubernatorial term. In reality, he would only be Acting Governor pending a special election that would take place this year or next year (depending on when the gubernatorial vacancy occurred). --SMP0328. (talk) 19:13, 18 March 2008 (UTC)


 * I'm dubious of "10th", your argument would apply for any office. Did the position not exits in the previous constitution?  And why didn't you fix the footer? ;) - Colfer2 (talk) 20:43, 18 March 2008 (UTC)


 * I told you why Bruno is referred to as the "10th" Senate Majority Leader. If you want to remove it, go ahead. If that's all you want, I have no objection. --SMP0328. (talk) 20:55, 18 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Do you have a cite? ;) Seriously, who refers to him as "10th"?  Anyway, fix the footer. - Colfer2 (talk) 21:17, 18 March 2008 (UTC)


 * I'm surprised there's been contentiousness over this. Though I suppose my own earlier confusion didn't help.  NY State Senator Joseph Bruno is the current Majority Leader of the NY State Senate as well as the Temporary President of that body.  None of that changed yesterday when Spitzer resigned.  The only things that changed Monday in relation to Joe Bruno: 1) He assumes the "duties" of the Lt-Governor (which involve presiding over the Senate, which he already does; and taking over in case of incapacity of the Governor, which he would anyway as next in line succession-wise); 2) He becomes second in line for the (acting) governorship instead of third.  His title did not change, nor did the location of his office or anything else.  Powers T 22:31, 18 March 2008 (UTC)


 * If anybody finds New York's numbering of its Lieutenant Governors confusing? See the numberings of Arkansas Governors. -- GoodDay (talk) 23:35, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

I would reinstate the reference to Senator Bruno as Acting Lieutenant Governor. Although there isn't a specific reference to it in the state constitution, if he's performing the duties of the Lieutenant Governorship he is acting in the position, therefore he is the de facto Acting Lieutenant Governor. I will reinstate the reference if I find support for my position. ESCStudent774441 (talk) 03:25, 27 March 2008 (UTC)


 * 1- Performing the duties of an office in an "acting" capacity is different from holding that office. Dick Cheney has twice been Acting President of the United States, but that doesn't mean he was ever the 44th President of the United States.


 * 2- Referring to Joe Bruno as "Acting Lieutenant Governor" could cause confusion regarding gubernatorial succession in New York. While the Lieutenant Governor becomes Governor if the Governor fails to finish his term, the "temporary president of the senate" would only become "acting governor" pending a special election if there was no Governor or Lieutenant Governor. So Joe Bruno is not treated as identical to a Lieutenant Governor.


 * For the above reasons Joe Bruno should not be referred to as "Acting Lieutenant Governor." --SMP0328. (talk) 03:37, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

I looked up the definition of Acting in the legal tense and put in simple terms, if you perform the powers and duties of an office, you are acting in the capacity stated. If Senator Bruno is performing the powers and duties of Lieutenant Governor without holding the actual office of Lieutenant Governor makes him even without the formal reference the de facto Acting Lieutenant Governor. It'd make sense that an Acting Lieutenant Governor would only become Acting Governor if need be. For your reference here is the Wikipedia article on the legal use of the term "Acting". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acting_(law) ESCStudent774441 (talk) 05:04, 27 March 2008 (UTC)


 * I'm telling you what the terminology that is used in the New York State Constitution. That's the terminology that should be used in the article. It's clearer than "Acting Lieutenant Governor." As I said earlier, if there's no Vice President nobody would refer to the President pro tempore of the Senate or the Speaker of the House as "Acting Vice President." When talking about the law, use the terminology the law uses. The New York State Constitution says that when there's no Lieutenant Governor his duties are performed by the "temporary president of the senate." If you want to interpret that to mean that Joe Bruno is "Acting Lieutenant Governor", that's fine, but the article should say what the law says not what some people interpret to mean. --SMP0328. (talk) 19:10, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

Hello again. Sorry for the delay, but crap happens when you attend March Term at my college. Also still left to wonder if I have diabetes or high cholesterol. Nervous about either one, but more so about the diabetes part. Anyway, if you were referring to Acting Vice President, that IS an unofficial designation for a Senate President Pro Tempore who assumes the two main duties of the Vice President in the latter's absence. For that reference go to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acting_Vice_President Keep it real, okay? Hope things stay smooth with ya. Remind me to yell at my doctor in the morning. ESCStudent774441 (talk) 22:51, 27 March 2008 (UTC)


 * My main concern is that the article should be clear in this regard. The way to do that is to use the wording used by the New York State Constitution. I wish you the best and hope you stay healthy. I'm glad we were able to have an intelligent discussion. That's not always possible with some editors. --SMP0328. (talk) 00:06, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the condolences. With the final verdict still up in the air, who knows? Got an appointment next month on the 21st with an orthopedic surgeon over my familiar curse, scoliosis and back pain up to obnoxious. Damn this hurts especially at nights. ESCStudent774441 (talk) 03:58, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

I have, more than once, reverted edits by Scanz851 that added that Joseph Bruno is "Acting Lieutenant Governor" in the Infobox. Along with the reasons I've expressed above, "Acting Lieutenant Governor" counts as original research and so it is prohibited. --SMP0328. (talk) 04:44, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

SMP0328, update on some of my medical issues. Just got my blood test back, negative for diabetes or cholesterol. But I was prescribed something for my back pain by my primary care physician at least until I see the specialist later this month. Let you know then what the end is. ESCStudent774441 (talk) 03:55, 3 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Glad to hear it you don't have diabetes or high cholesterol. Hope your back pain goes away. Since your health status isn't relevant to this talk page, contact me at my talk page when you find out more from the specialist. --SMP0328. (talk) 22:16, 3 April 2008 (UTC)


 * You're quite mistaken about original research here, SMP! What you say is your interpretation of the State Constitution (user's opinion = original research), while the newsmedia (= citable reliable sources) say "Acting Lieutenant Governor". It is not your opinion on how to interpret the State Constitution what counts, but what he is commonly referred to by the sources. That's the Wikipedia general rule. So, please do NOT REMOVE the succession box and the Lt. Gov. Template anymore. The wording of the text is not "clear" at all, except legal professionals nobody can understand what actually is happening. Besides, there above it is well pointed out that Acting has two distinct meanings, while you insist to say is has only one. Please ask some English teacher to tell you, or read it in Wikipedia's own article. Also, you deliberately confuse "acting" in case of absence and "acting" in case of vacancy, just to confuse other users (the Dick Cheney example has nothing to do with this), please stick to the real issue. And, where in the State Constitution is written that an Acting Lieutenant Governor would become Governor? You are making this up out of whole cloth. (By the way, your interpreting the State Constitution could land you in jail for "Practicing Law Without a License".) :D Kraxler (talk) 23:46, 7 April 2008 (UTC)


 * My source is the State Constitution. I am not interpreting it, I'm quoting it. You are the one making an interpretation. As for your sources, they are the media. The media many times misstate the law. Here's an article that claims that if Governor Paterson fails to finish the current gubernatorial term, then Bruno would become Governor. That's clearly wrong (see quoted provisions of the State Constitution above). So the fact that some reporters claim that Bruno is "Acting Lieutenant Governor" doesn't make it so. On Bruno's own website he refers to himself as "Temporary President of the Senate". I think the State Constitution and Joseph Bruno are betters sources for Joseph Bruno's political status than a few reporters. We can discuss reaching a compromise, but what you currently want is a misstatement of the law. --SMP0328. (talk) 00:43, 8 April 2008 (UTC)


 * 1. Let the article stand as it is now, with the succession box and the Lt. Gov. template, that's ok for me.
 * 2. No, it is not a misstatement of the law, since "performing the duties of" and "acting as" are synonym, the former is a legalese expression, the latter is plain English, it is the same; as I suggested before, ask an English teacher about it.
 * 3. Since you are not a lawyer, to say "...is a misstatement of the law." is a crime ("Practicing Law Without a License"). I suggest you do not repeat it too often... :D
 * 4. Everything I said in my previous statement is verifiable as to the Wikipedia rules, please comply with them, independent from your personal opinions and convictions. As to your "source": The State Constitution does not mention Bruno, it is your interpretation.
 * 5. Nothing is perfect, not even Wikipedia. Just imagine the newspaper had to repeat every time "Temporary President of the Senate who is now performing all the duties of the lieutenant governor's office without being legally in but actually occupying physically that office Joseph Bruno"; isn't it more practical to say (correctly, as I pointed out above) "Acting Lieutenant Governor Joseph Bruno"? I suggest you become more sociable....
 * 6. The article you mention above was written before the fact occurred, a fast and not well researched prognosis, even self-contradicting, after Paterson was inaugurated, things became a little clearer. I doubt that the New York Times would publish such gibberish...
 * 7. Bruno was "Temporary President of the State Senate" for more than a decade, the term is used (on his site and commonly) as synonym for Majority Leader of the New York State Senate. There's another hair to split.....
 * 8. Last but not least, a little History: At one time Napoleon Bonaparte appointed the famous and highly intelligent mathematician Laplace Minister of the Interior of France, see at the article on Laplace, section Political ambitions, what happened.... Kraxler (talk) 23:30, 8 April 2008 (UTC)


 * I fully agree with #1. Let the article, succession box, and that template stand as they are now. BTW, I'm engaging in Freedom of speech, which is not a crime even when the speech is about the law and that speech is by a non-lawyer. I assume #3 is a joke. ;) --SMP0328. (talk) 18:35, 9 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Yes, #3 is a joke, and anyway, let's move on to more important issues. As a member of the WikiProject New York, I have still a lot of work to do on the history of a few state offices... Kraxler (talk) 18:45, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Image deletion
Why was the image of Joseph Bruno removed? It's normal for an article about a person to have an image of that person in its infobox. Why should this article be different? --SMP0328. (talk) 18:22, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Apparently because of this? (updated) User talk:MrPrada/Archive 2. But I don't know why the reason given was G7:
 * 05:58, 20 March 2008 deleted "Image:Joebruno.jpg" (G7: One author who has requested deletion or blanked the page)
 * - Colfer2 (talk) 18:49, 20 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Is there any way to restore that image or replace it with a similar image? --SMP0328. (talk) 19:29, 20 March 2008 (UTC)


 * I don't know much about it, but there are Wikipedia editors who delete any image that does not have good reasons explaining why it should be allowed by fair use, or is not copyrighted. The most legit way would be to get a pic from Bruno's office with a letter saying it is AOK. Second would be to take the pic from Bruno's www.senatorbruno.com page and note that the page is not copyrighted.  Third would be give a bunch of reasons for the old picture.  Wikipedia seems to be in flux on this issue, when a picture is used for illustration and not commentary on the image itself.  That's for fair use of copyrighted stuff anyway.  So don't use a news picture, use something Bruno is giving out for free use. If you click [[Image:Joebruno.jpg]] it tells you about providing reasons.  If the image gets challenged and nobody improves the reasons, then it gets deleted.
 * The old picture is here, at governing.typepad.com, an un-copyrighted blog apparently put out by the copyrighted Governing magazine. Maybe Typepad did not let them copyright, and the image was theirs?  More likely it's wire service or a free publicity photo.
 * Also I updated the link to the original challenge above, which has a bunch of the kind of reasons you get for this stuff. - Colfer2 (talk) 20:39, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
 * An image doesn't need a copyright notice to be copyrighted, that is automatic. What we need is a photo with an explicit free license. Nesodak (talk) 01:23, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

Resignation & the Infobox
In light of Bruno's resignation from office, what should be done with this article's Infobox? If it needs to be updated or deleted, then someone should do so soon. --SMP0328. (talk) 17:54, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

I've updated the Infobox so that it no longer refers to Bruno as an "Incumbent". If any more updating is needed please feel free to do so. --SMP0328. (talk) 00:19, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

"Done -Iudaeus (talk) 15:45, 20 December 2008 (UTC)"

Importance rating for New York project
Since he is no longer the majority leader shouldnt this article's importance perhaps be dropped from "top" to "high"? If we kept every majority leader from here on out as "top" importance (as the new majority leader's page has been set at as well) then we'd have a lot of "top" articles and that's not consistent with what "top" should be.Camelbinky (talk) 04:49, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

Indicted
Bruno was just indicted on eight counts of corruption including mail and wire fraud, I just updated the page. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Duffy2032 (talk • contribs) 18:59, 23 January 2009 (UTC) As a result of the United States Supreme Court decision in Skilling v United States Federal Prosecutors have conceded that the case against Sen Bruno must be dismissed. The only issue is whether they will be able to try Sen Bruno again on a new indictment. Sen Bruno's attorneys are seeking to have s second prosecution barred as double jeopardy. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.87.147.135 (talk) 16:47, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

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Day of death listed twice
The day of his death is listed twice. Can the duplicate be removed? MikaelaArsenault (talk) 14:12, 7 October 2020 (UTC)
 * ✅.  Wylie pedia  @ 14:25, 7 October 2020 (UTC)

October 6
Can October 6 be removed? The article that is used as the source says that he died on the 7th. MikaelaArsenault (talk) 14:17, 7 October 2020 (UTC)
 * .  Wylie pedia  @ 14:26, 7 October 2020 (UTC)

Now it got changed back to the 6th when the articles say that he died on the 7th. MikaelaArsenault (talk) 17:05, 7 October 2020 (UTC)

Date of Death
He died on Wednesday, October 7, 2020. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.122.216.158 (talk) 15:47, 8 October 2020 (UTC)

Date of Death II
Please change the date of his death to October 7, 2020 he died on that morning. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.122.216.158 (talk) 22:24, 8 October 2020 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
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