Talk:Josh Lyman

Cuz it was annoying me
Does anyone know the episodes in which Josh does not appear?

Did they mention Josh in the "flashback" episode? On the other pages, we read of Toby teaching at Columbia, Will's seat in the House, C.J. marrying Danny, and so on, but there's no mention of Josh's future here. I didn't see that episode, but I can't imagine that they wouldn't mention him. (arevolvingonob)


 * I just checked a transcript of the show. Never mind. (arevolvingonob)


 * Yah. They did not mention him because he seems to be in some position of power relative to the new president, but they don't want to divulge who that is or what he is doing. Rlove 17:42, 17 December 2005 (UTC)


 * All Josh did was mention that the President was there. He could have just been a library invitee like everyone else, or, yes, he could have arrived shortly before Santos and is announcing Santos' arrival. I don't think the thought is that maybe it's Vinick and Josh is working with him. Plus if we saw Josh there, there'd be the invariably "So, how's your wife, Donna?" Which they don't wanna give away.

Josh doesn't appear in "The Last Hurrah" (because he and Donna have gone away on a Sam Seaborn-ordered vacation). Also, the "flashback" at the opening of the Bartlet Library was filmed after Season 7 concluded (hence no Leo McGarry) when the Santos victory was known - that's why it was Josh introducing the arrival of the President. DermottBanana (talk) 03:21, 27 November 2008 (UTC)DermottBanana

Josh Lyman Rove
I was watching Frontline's report on Karl Rove and I alsways thought that Josh Lyman was to Matt Santos as Karl Rove was to George W. Bush - the architect and campaign leader/manager. --Blue387 21:53, 24 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Well, I'm not sure about that, but he is analagous to Karl Rove in that Rove is the current Deputy White House Chief of Staff, a position Josh held for most of the series.

Rahm Emmanuel
Sorkin has repeatedly stated that no characters are really based on any real life people. Any statement that a person makes saying Josh, Sam, whoever is based on George Stephanapolous, Rahm Emmanuel, or whoever, really ought to be taken as false. I'm removing that.

"Paul Begala spoke about NBC's "The West Wing," the character loosely-based on him as well as his own experiences in the real West Wing.
 * Do you have any proof of him saying this? While of course Josh and Sam are not completely based real people, but are inspired by real politcians and events. If you do a Google search (with for example Sam Seaborn and Stephanopoulos, you will find many references especially pointing out the obvious similarities between Sam and George Stephanopoulos, or C.J. and Dee Dee Meyers. Sorkin has met both personally (the latter was also a consultant for the show) and while he may not have conciously based his characters on them, I'm sure he also did not completely pull his ideas out of thin air, but subconciously let certain aspects of them flow into the characters. Here's something from the West Wing Episode Guide:

When my mom saw the show, she said, 'Son, please tell me you weren't the one who left his pager with the hooker," Begala said, showing the crowd his pager. "Only my mom could think I was the character played by Rob Lowe. So I told her it was George Stephanopoulos and Georgie tells his mom it was me.


 * No surprise that there are arrogant politicians who like to think Sorkin thinks they're so great that Aaron Sorkin would base a character on them. Sorkin has specifically said he based no characters on people, including Bartlet himself who so many seem to feel is a Clinton clone.

"Begala: Caucuses about people" by Greg Jerrett January 15, 2004 Daily Nonpareil"

--newsjunkie 15:34, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

I'd say that whether the character was based on Rahm Emanuel or not, they've certainly given him a lot of his traits. Also, a few fairly obvious nods: Well, nothing conclusive, but I think it's quite conceivable that Josh Lyman might not have been originally based on Rahm Emanuel, but has since been developed strongly in that direction. Of course for so many reasons, Sorkin was going to say the characters weren't based on anyone in particular, regardless of whether they were or not. No brainer. Even so, none of that's justification for inclusion, and I'm not sure that one throwaway line in a Rolling Stone piece is really a strong enough source. *shrug* -- Gid 01:38, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Josh Lyman sent a congressman a dead fish ("Constituency of One"). Rahm Emanuel sent a pollster a dead fish.
 * Josh Lyman wanted to be a ballerina when young ("Ways and Means"). Rahm Emanuel used to be a ballerina.


 * I'm inclined to think that Sorkin did get at least some inspiration for Josh from Rahm Emanuel. But, unless we can get a quote from Sorkin or one of the show's producers, your guess is as good as mine and so the Rahm Emanuel comparison is original research. --Hnsampat 01:54, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

Sister's death
I don't remember the details but I know it was revealed that Josh's sister died when they were children and the event was a defining moment in his life. Should be mentioned in the article. MK2 01:34, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Done --- fdewaele 19 May 2006, 10:44 (CET)

Biography
This article reads rather like it's trying to be the biography of a real person rather than an article about a character. DJ Clayworth 17:24, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

Apperance in the Last Hurrah?
I'm pretty sure Josh is in the The Last Hurrah (The West Wing): doesn't he take a holiday at the end of the episode? --Gunny01 04:25, 15 April 2007 (UTC)


 * No, he takes his vacation at the end of the one before that, "Transition." --Hnsampat 15:02, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

Out of universe assertion of note
If someone beats me to it, please note that most of the trivia section is more relevant to the article than the rest, as that seems to be the only place where the article's topic isn't being discussed in an excessively in-universe manner. MrZaius talk  23:59, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

Relationship with Donna
I've been working, among other things, on cleaning up the section on Josh and Donna's relationship. I've gotten rid of the bullet points, rewritten everything in the proper tense, added some out-of-universe perspective and retooled the information on their relationship between seasons one and four, but I've only seen a handful of season five and six episodes (I admit it, I'm a Sorkin purist) so I'm not going to be much use condensing/editing/referencing the development of the relationship between seasons five and seven. Anybody else want to give it a shot?

I've also added a to-do list to the talk page; feel free to contribute/ignore as you see fit. :) Shoemoney2night (talk) 05:02, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

Relationship with Amy
This relationship is not even mentionned ! 77.207.24.153 (talk) 00:02, 14 March 2009 (UTC)

Legislative Affairs
The character of Josh Lyman was also Director of Legislative affairs. I don't know if that is implicit in his Deputy COS role or not, but at a glance I didn't see it mentioned anywhere. Can anyone talk to this topic? Comes.amanuensis (talk) 14:03, 21 September 2010 (UTC)

Amy Gardner
This is the best article ever - but here's a note that it desperately needs a section on Amy Gardner. --202.93.162.3 (talk) 05:55, 16 November 2011 (UTC)

Lack of Reliable Sources
I suggest that reference citations to other Wikipedia articles describing episodes of the West Wing are not reliable sources. They are simply descriptions of something that never existed, thus violating in-universe. We should remember that Josh Lyman is fictional, he never lived, so in depth discussion of his actions in a world that also never existed in inappropriate. Please refer to the article "What Wikipedia is not" for discussion of notability and indiscriminate informationCatherinejarvis (talk) 18:00, 28 January 2013 (UTC)

Waaaay too loooong
It's not a lack of reliable sources that is the problem - it's just that the article reads like a teenager's fan site. Since when did everything a guy does get into a Wikipedia article? And since we're talking about a fictional character, why is his biography so much longer - in actual words - than the biography of Bradley Whitford?Princetoniac (talk) 23:59, 7 March 2013 (UTC)