Talk:Killing of Akai Gurley

Contested deletion
This page should not be speedy deleted as an unambiguous copyright infringement, because... (it has been rewritten as initially a stub that will later be expanded) --Likeminas (talk) 18:18, 10 December 2014 (UTC)

Totally inappropriate POV and my deletion of it reverted
This sentence appears in the introduction:

"Liang accidentally discharged his gun, the bullet ricocheted off the wall and Gurley was struck once in the chest and later died from the shot.[1][2]"

I don't care how many sources you give to a statement about someone's thoughts, feelings, or intentions that is impossible for anyone to know (other than that person, of course).

Those sources cannot be reliable sources if they claim to be telepathic.

So I removed the word "accidentally", because that implies knowledge of the subject's intentions.

That edit has now been reverted.

How can serious Wikipedia editors avoid the vandalism of people who don't understand the concept of editing Wikipedia?Daqu (talk) 03:24, 25 April 2015 (UTC)


 * I believe the reason why it's designated as "accidental" is because that was what the courts ruled it as, and that is what it appeared to be. Although we can't know the true intentions of Liang without his honest admission of it, we can gather that the discharge of his firearm was accidental. If you wish to claim that it isn't, feel free to provide reliable sources confirming that it is not. ―Nøkkenbuer (talk • contribs) 16:09, 25 April 2015 (UTC)

Does Akai Gurley live there or not?
In the Backgrounds section, it says Akai Gurley "...was a resident of the Louis H. Pink Houses, where he lived with his girlfriend and two-year-old daughter." In the Shooting section, it says "...Akai Gurley was visiting his girlfriend and getting his hair braided..."

Removal of irrelevant material.
I've removed some material on relevance grounds, including a passage that seems to suggest that the killing may be justified by the posibility of the vctim being a drug dealer, which I believe falls under WP:BLPCRIME, and which certainly has BLP implications regardless. Artw (talk) 01:30, 31 January 2016 (UTC)
 * This is certainly not a biography of a living person (BLP), and other pages such as the death of Freddy Gray include the same type of information. And considering the page mentions protests by Black Lives Matter and info on white police officers being brought up also, the subject has been racial despite the motives not being so. This does not justify removal. Amerifat (talk) 02:13, 31 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Per WP:BLP the policy applies to all pages and in the case of contentious material the recently deceased, and therefore does apply here. Even if it didn't, finding a policy loophole to defame a victim in order to POV push is pretty shoddy behavior. Artw (talk) 06:25, 31 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Why should the info be included in other similar articles, and not this one? The material in the background and not the incident or court sections, therefore is certainly is not being argued as a justification for the shooting. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it should be removed, especially when it's sourced. Furthermore, it's not a living person and hasn't been for more than a year no matter how you slice it, and this is simply stating facts. Amerifat (talk)
 * See above. Artw (talk) 08:24, 31 January 2016 (UTC)
 * I have to agree with Artw on this, the arrest material is definitely irrelevant to the case. However, it is certainly the case the Death of Freddy Gray and even Death of Eric Garner includes material on their prior arrests. This article also stated "which consisted of drug dealing arrests", however, the cited article calls it "a felony drug conviction for dealing crack and multiple other arrests for lesser crimes." Personally, I would agree with deleting all of this, but considering other articles are also including this, I think we should get input from the editors on those articles about removing prior arrests. Kiwifist (talk) 05:26, 24 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Agreed, this is irrelevant. If the Gray article has similar info, maybe it should be deleted there too.  But saying it's there is a poor argument for keeping it here.    Spinner145 (talk) 13:29, 24 February 2016 (UTC)

What kind of biased foolishness is this? Why am I being told what Mr. Liang's parents do but not what Mr. Gurley's parents do? Why am I told where Mr. Liang went to §school but not where Mr. Gurley went to school? And why in the name of God do i need to know that Mr. Liang had African American friends? If you have African American friends, does that give you Carte Blanche to go out and kill random African American people who are not your friends? The author(s) of this article have their heads so far up the NYPDs nether regions it's surreal.172.56.23.112 (talk) 07:12, 10 February 2016 (UTC)

Kalema Brown172.56.23.112 (talk) 07:12, 10 February 2016 (UTC)

Oh My God the Bias!
A backgrounds section for an accidental shooting?? Details of arrest??

Who wrote this article the?

What does Akao Gurley arrest has to do with this accidental shooting? What does Officer Liang having "Black" friend have to do with this accidental shooting? What does Akai Gurley getting his hair braided have to do with this article?

What does Similarity between once case have to do with another?

This article is literally a Disrespect to Wikipedia's Standards.

To allow such a bias, agenda pushing, one side piece of content, disguise as a Wikipedia entry to remain, violate all that a non-bias source of knowledge should represent.

This article is a Disgrace! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:582:4101:5D00:38A1:6F4F:B01F:D58F (talk) 21:43, 16 February 2016 (UTC)

Completely agree here. The impression I get from this article is that the organizers of the Peter Liang protests have gone through the article, and added every argument they use, while completely ignoring any other points of view.

Also, what do the 24 drug arrests have to do with a bullet ricochet in a stairwell? Peter Liang's "black friends"?

"Most of the Chinese American population generally calls for leniency for Officer Liang." Are there any references for this?

Mdu2002 (talk) 19:45, 20 February 2016 (UTC)

Responding to this... the comment about him getting his hair braided, I think, is fair, since it gives context for him being there. The comment about Gurly's previous arrests is clearly racist. It's a common tactic to try to justify shootings by cops to list priors of the victim. It's the racial equivalent of saying a rape victim deserved it because they were wearing a red dress. It's victim blaming. Unless it has something to do with why the cop came in contact with the victim it is irrelevant and should be removed.

The similarity between the two cases might be worth mentioning if it was mentioned in the protests and a citation could be provided to it being similar. It might be better mentioned in a broader article on police shootings.

108.183.22.70 (talk) 06:17, 26 January 2022 (UTC)

Unauthorized patrols?
Kiwifist deleted the following edit:

"According to sources quoted in the New York Daily News, such patrols were unauthorized at the time ." with the note "The source didn't say the patrols were "unauthorized". During the trial, it was said that they were ordered to do a vertical, and it never came up that they disobeyed orders to not do a vertical patrol. The patrols are also still being conducted by the PD"

While the source didn't use the word "unauthorized" it did clearly state that Liang and Landau weren't supposed to be conducting vertical patrols. If there are sources contradicting this report I'm happy to consider them so we can consider whether this information edit belongs; otherwise I'd like to reinsert this edit. Thanks in advance. Spinner145 (talk) 03:01, 23 February 2016 (UTC)


 * I've expanded more with what that sources say. Kiwifist (talk) 19:06, 23 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Some sources calling the vertical patrols "routine": Some of these sources are already in the article. Kiwifist (talk) 04:34, 24 February 2016 (UTC)
 * fair enough, thanks. Also thanks for the other detail on vertical patrols.  Also I think part of this info you added was more appropriate under "shooting: than "aftermath" as it related to events before the shooting, so I moved and rearranged it somewhat.  Hopefully this is helpful.  Spinner145 (talk) 04:39, 24 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I agree. Kiwifist (talk) 05:06, 24 February 2016 (UTC)
 * I've also tried to rework the section on the Pink houses. I realize that the information there was nearly verbatim, but the two sources are coming at it from slightly different angles so the sources weren't meshing.  Hopefully my changes can help with clarity and consistency.  Spinner145 (talk) 05:15, 24 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Kiwifist, I've again tried to revise this to make the paragraph more concise and informative without deleting vital information. I'd appreciate if you could discuss here if you disagree with any of these edits.  Thanks.  Spinner145 (talk) 04:27, 26 February 2016 (UTC)
 * He cannot be ethnically from HongKong, His surname is in Chinese, not cantonese. 176.158.144.48 (talk) 08:14, 26 February 2016 (UTC)

Citations to Add
I plan on adding the following citations:


 * Nguyen, Thai-Huy1, and Marybeth1 Gasman. "Activism, Identity and Service: The Influence of the Asian American Movement on the Educational Experiences of College Students." History of Education44.3 (2015): 339-54. Eue. Web. 26 Oct. 2016.
 * Wu, J. Y. S. & Chen, T..Asian American Studies Now: A Critical Reader. New Brunswick: Rutgers University Press, 2010. Project MUSE.
 * "Asian-American groups challenge racial preferences in higher education". Washington Post. Retrieved 2016-10-26.
 * Morris, Catherine. "Asian American Groups File Federal Complaint Against Harvard." Diverse: Issues in Higher Education 32.9 (2015): 8. MasterFILE Premier. Web. 26 Oct. 2016.
 * "Asian-American groups challenge racial preferences in higher education". Washington Post. Retrieved 2016-10-26.
 * Times, Los Angeles. "Chinese social media platform plays a role in U.S. rallies for NYPD officer". latimes.com. Retrieved 2016-10-26.
 * Xu, Qiong, and Richard Mocarski. "A Cross-Cultural Comparison of Domestic American and International Chinese Students' Social Media Usage." Journal of International Students 4.4 (2014): 374-88.ERIC. Web. 26 Oct. 2016.M.nie (talk) 07:16, 26 October 2016 (UTC)

Welcome to Wikipedia, and best of luck with your school project. These citations certainly look like WP:Reliable sources, but they would be more appropriate for a different Wikipedia article, such as Affirmative action in the United States. Except for the LA Times, the rest of these citations are quite WP:OFFTOPIC for the Shooting of Akai Gurley. Thanks if you can help keep each article focused on its own subject. —Patrug (talk) 06:17, 2 November 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
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Requested move 23 October 2021

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. 

The result of the move request was: moved.

3 editors support the move per WP:DEATHS, 1 weakly opposes and 1 has proposed an alt move, which has attracted no support, so I find consensus to make the move as requested. While it is correct that WP:DEATHS is an explanatory supplement and not a policy or a guideline, it may be followed where there is consensus to do so, as there is here. (non-admin closure) Havelock Jones (talk) 15:05, 9 November 2021 (UTC)

Shooting of Akai Gurley → Killing of Akai Gurley – Per WP:DEATHS. Gurley was fatally shot by Peter Liang, who was ultimately convicted of criminally negligent homicide. 162 etc. (talk) 18:31, 23 October 2021 (UTC) — Relisting. Jack Frost (talk) 06:00, 1 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Move to Murder of Akai Gurley Clear indications that Peter Liang was convicted, so "killing" is not necessary to reflect that situation. 180.254.162.137 (talk) 04:27, 24 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Peter Liang's conviction was for manslaughter, not murder, and it was further reduced at sentencing. WP:DEATHS does not support the "murder" title for this incident. 162 etc. (talk) 18:22, 24 October 2021 (UTC)


 * Support Killing of Akai Gurley. Of the three possible titles suggested so far, that best describes the topic of the article. Even redirects from the other two each have a POV smell to them, but we should have them IMO. Andrewa (talk) 19:01, 30 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Weak oppose: There's no need to change the current title. There are lots of articles with similar titles, and "Killing of" is generally awkward and unencyclopedic in English (e.g., per comments by DeCausa at Talk:Death of Benito Mussolini), and according to several prominent dictionaries, it implies intent. This person was killed by a ricochet, and the conviction was for negligent action, not in a pre-planned killing (e.g., the event was different from the Killing of Osama bin Laden). As noted at the top of WP:DEATHS, that essay is not one of Wikipedia's policies or guidelines, as it has not been thoroughly vetted by the community. The recent campaign to change lots of article titles to "Killing of" is not helping Wikipedia. —&#8288;&#8202;&#8288;BarrelProof (talk) 15:33, 4 November 2021 (UTC)
 * This article, and many others like it with the "Shooting" title, describes an incident that is both a shooting and a killing. Both "Shooting of" and "Killing of" would seem to meet WP:CRITERIA.  However I, and many others, agree with WP:DEATHS that homicides are best titled as "Killing".  While this explanatory supplement does not have guideline status, there is a precedent to favour "Killing" for fatal shootings that are not classified as murder; see Killing of Adam Toledo, Killing of Daunte Wright, Killing of Ma'Khia Bryant, Killing of Dolal Idd, Killing of Andre Hill, Killing of Christian Hall, Killing of Tamir Rice.  162 etc. (talk) 18:29, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
 * Support move to Killing of Akai Gurley per WP:DEATHS. Combefere  ❯❯❯  Talk  02:37, 8 November 2021 (UTC)