Talk:Killing of Joyce Chiang

Brother
I thought Schwarzenegger was Controller of the state of Californiya... perhaps her brother is Comptroller? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.200.32.120 (talk) 03:05, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

Notability?
This is a sad story, and I'm sorry if I sound insensitive, but: is there anything about it which makes the subject particularly notable? Many people, unfortunately, disappear every year; many are never found. We don't need articles on all of them. What is it about this person that makes her important enough to have a Wikipedia biography? Robofish (talk) 01:40, 7 January 2011 (UTC)

Style
Why does this article refer to Chiang by her first name? That doesn't seem consistent with other entries. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.231.52.70 (talk) 17:08, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

Degrees
Way does this article refer to the degree Chiang earned "from the evening division of Georgetown University ... [Law Center] in 1995" as a "law degree," rather than as a J.D. degree or Juris Doctor degree? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 73.192.242.220 (talk) 22:41, 10 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Because the cited sources do not refer to it as such. One of them says "law degree", and the other doesn't mention it at all. Personally, I don't think it makes much difference, but if you want to include the less-common term (J.D.) you must cite a reliable source, and you should parenthetically explain, for the benefit of general readers, what the term means. &mdash; UncleBubba ( T @ C ) 17:13, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

Requested move 19 March 2023

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: no consensus. Two relists and no progress. (closed by non-admin page mover) — Ceso femmuin mbolgaig mbung, mellohi! (投稿) 21:03, 13 April 2023 (UTC)

Killing of Joyce Chiang → Death of Joyce Chiang – "Killing" makes it sound like she was clearly murdered. While her death was ruled a homicide, there is no definitive proof of that. John Walsh states that is possible she slipped and fell into the river while struggling with the robbers or trying to escape. In that case, her death would not be considered murder.&#32;2603:7000:26F0:74B0:6C6E:A4C9:21D4:F2DD (talk) 22:57, 18 March 2023 (UTC) This is a contested technical request (permalink). – robertsky (talk) 06:58, 19 March 2023 (UTC) — Relisting. ModernDayTrilobite (talk • contribs) 15:12, 27 March 2023 (UTC)  — Relisting. — Ceso femmuin mbolgaig mbung, mellohi! (投稿) 15:43, 3 April 2023 (UTC)
 * While I might personally agree, matters of "death"/"killing"/"murder" etc. are often contentious and need discussion. Also, you may not have heard of the principle of felony murder, which could cover an accident that occurs during the commission of a crime. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 01:09, 19 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Oppose. A reading of Killing of Joyce Chiang leaves no doubt that she was indeed killed. —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 03:47, 19 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Oppose per . 〜 Festucalex  •  talk  09:03, 19 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Support per WP:DEATHS. The autopsy did not determine a cause of death, and while police allege it was a homicide, no charges were ever filed. 162 etc. (talk) 16:33, 19 March 2023 (UTC)


 * Strong Oppose - “Killing” has no implications of murder. Her death was ruled a homicide (which is different from murder). Simply because no charges were filed does not mean she was not killed, it simply means she wasn’t murdered (in the purely legal sense).
 * Estar8806 (talk) 16:00, 27 March 2023 (UTC)
 * The forensic investigators did not rule it a homicide; the D.C. police did, in a press conference held 12 years after her disappearance. Per WP:DEATHS, "A determination of the manner of death should be made by some official authority, such as a coroner, coroner's inquest, medical examiner or similar expert person or organization".  I don't believe that a police chief, who has no relevant medical expertise, meets that definition. 162 etc. (talk) 16:23, 27 March 2023 (UTC)
 * First of all, coroners are not required to have medical training (at least in parts of the U.S., as they are elected). Medical examiners are. But don't ignore the "similar expert person". A police chief would probably fit this definition, they're trained investigators (and an "official authority"). Simply because they don't have the authority to declare someone dead or the expertise to determine an exact cause of death doesn't mean that they cannot tell a homicide apart from an accidental death or even suicide. Estar8806 (talk) 20:20, 27 March 2023 (UTC)


 * Support: The available information is murky. For more than a decade the police said it was probably suicide; then they later (possibly in response to pressure from the family and a television show host) announced they had come to a different conclusion but presented no definitive evidence and filed no charges against anyone. They didn't even confirm the details of the explanation that had been reported by others. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 17:49, 27 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Oppose. This was clearly a "killing" and is consistent with usage of our other "Killing of..." articles. Rreagan007 (talk) 19:17, 28 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Relisting comment: Still no consensus on whether a homicide happened. — Ceso femmuin mbolgaig mbung, mellohi! (投稿) 15:43, 3 April 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.