Talk:Kobe beef

Beer
I saw a german documentary yesterday where the cattle were fed 1 bottle of beer a day to relief them of stress. In the article it is stated that this is not the case. Unfortunately i have no sources but maybe someone else got more info on that? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.88.117.149 (talk) 10:28, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

I agree. This article needs a little TLC. Cows that produce Kobe Beef are fed beer and given daily massages. There are hundreds of articles that reference this, many available in google. Here's another article about this: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/cornwall/6345289.stm -bb

This more properly belongs in the urban legend category. For a better citation, consider http://www.kobe-niku.jp/english/contents/faq/index.html -- from the Kobe Beef Marketing Association itself! In the FAQs, see the quote "Actually, however, it can be said that there have been almost no cases of cows being raised on beer" and "...massage itself neither softens meat nor increases the amount of marbling" --Larry (talk) 21:12, 30 October 2012 (UTC)

Since the link structure changed, here is a working link to the FAQ Traveling Man referred to: http://www.kobe-niku.jp/en/contents/faq/index.html --DEnigma (talk) 16:27, 15 December 2017 (UTC)

Production methods
I added a paragraph about the raising of Kobe beef based on Raymond Blanc's observations:

"The chef and restaurateur Raymond Blanc has described how Kobe beef production involves the use of confining pens which result in animals so weak that they have difficulty in walking due to the lack of exercise of their muscles. He also noted that slaughter takes place in an open dirty field, in front of animals that are about to be killed."

The source is http://oxfordsymposium.org.uk/36-os2007report/

This has been deleted by User:Traveling_Man with the reason given as "undo POV". How is it "point of view"? If the animals are confined to pens, that is a statement of fact. "POV" is if I wrote that "Kobe beef is produced using unnecessarily cruel methods". 92.21.6.103 (talk) 16:23, 17 May 2012 (UTC)

It's POV because Blanc is not a disinterested third party but has a personal stake in the matter in his business. Not to mention his quote only makes sense from a European point of view, as compared to an American point of view where slaughter methods are even more inhumane. -bb

I have a bigger issue on the quote itself. It doesn't make any sense to put it in the section that defines the criteria for Kobe Beef. If you really want to insert your pov into this article, create a new section titled something like "Controversy over Production Methods" rather than in the criteria for what qualifies Kobe Beef. It struck me as odd and out of place the moment I started reading it. -bb


 * -bb is wallowing in his own ignorance. That chip on its shoulder should be knocked off. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.32.43.224 (talk) 02:43, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

Untrue
"The proliferation of beef outside of Japan marketed as the Kobe beef is a troubling issue for Kobe beef farmers. Much like how sparkling wine may not be labeled "Champagne" unless it is produced in the Champagne region of France, the same is true in regard to "genuine" Kobe beef. Kobe beef comes from a specific breed and genetic lineage of cattle raised in the Hyogo prefecture according to the standards set by Kobe Beef Distribution and Promotion Council. This council also sets the rules regarding foreign exportation of Kobe beef and has tightly restricted trade with the exception of export to Macau and Hong Kong."

This may be true in the EU, but elsewhere you can certainly label any sparkling wine you want as Champagne. Particularly in the US, where place names are not copyrightable.169.232.131.133 (talk) 20:55, 27 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Copyrightable? I don't know. However, U.S. law DOES prevent use of the term Champagne, except in limited circumstances. See http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/5388 . --Larry (talk) 02:17, 28 December 2012 (UTC)
 * There are some presses related to them--Mujaki (talk) 14:17, 9 January 2013 (UTC)

The fraudulent labelling was at restaurants. The US Kobe beef association has not tried make such a misrepresentation. In fact, they may well have been instrumental in getting Kobe imports temporarily banned. The EU supposedly limits these place-name products to their own historical manufactures. The reality is that it's simply a weak excuse to force imports to use a nonmeaningful name. Many of these historical products are no longer made in their historical locations, yet the EU has not censured them. A good example is New Castle Brown Ale.27.33.247.140 (talk) 02:42, 15 February 2015 (UTC)

Cleanup
Thanks to some gentle prodding by an anonymous editor ("...this article is need of editing for clarity and flow..."), I've taken a few whacks at it: fixing grammar, making a few factual corrections, and moving sentences into their proper sections. However, it needs a lot more, and I'm ready to go to sleep. Any takers?--Larry (talk) 01:46, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

Remove {Cleanup|reason=this article is need of editing for clarity and flow} Tag?
I've taken a whack at the clarity/flow issues. Is it good enough to remove this tag?--Larry (talk) 19:56, 20 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Hmmm, no comments in a month and a half. Well, I guess I'll remove it.--Larry (talk) 02:15, 4 June 2013 (UTC)

Gender (cow / bullock / cattle)
I am reading contradictory descriptions about Kobe beef, as to whether it is ONLY male, or male AND female cattle. Larry Olmsted, a writer from Forbes magazine, describes Kobe beef as young, male and female (http://www.forbes.com/sites/larryolmsted/2012/04/12/foods-biggest-scam-the-great-kobe-beef-lie/). He uses cow and cattle interchangeably, as does this Wikipedia article, and cow and cattle will continue to be used somewhat interchangeably in everyday speak. But it seems that in this article more precise language is called for. This distinction is explained clearly elsewhere by others, including https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Beef&action=edit&section=37. Cow, cattle, bull, steer, heifer ... what is Kobe beef. (Master Chef (TV show) just stirred the pot yesterday (4 Sept 13) with "Kobe beef" a meat choice in the competition.)GeeBee60 (talk) 12:49, 5 September 2013 (UTC)

Cattle is a generic term, m or f. Beast is also generic in UK and Australia. Bull and steer (castrated) are m. Cow is f. Heifer is an un-calfed or virgin f, and is a sale class. Generally bulls fetch a much lower beef price, so they are nearly always castrated as calves. Range cattle herds keep a larger number of breeding bulls that have been specially purchased for the purpose. Lot herds are all cows and are artificially inseminated. Male dairy cattle are always killed, and sold as pet food. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 27.33.247.140 (talk) 02:55, 15 February 2015 (UTC)

Removing non-displayed text
I just removed some text that had been commented out -- I don't know when -- and was thus not displayed. Part of the text was written more like an opinion piece; I wasn't sure of the utility of the rest. If anyone finds any of it useful, it could be rewritten and reinserted. --Larry/Traveling_Man (talk) 21:38, 15 June 2015 (UTC)

Exports
In the history section we have: "In 2009, the USDA placed a ban on the import of Kobe beef to prevent the Japan foot-and-mouth outbreak from reaching US shores."

and in the Kobe beef in other countries section we have: "Prior to 2012, Kobe beef was not exported."

I feel like only one of these statements can be true.
 * Hi,, and thanks for your comment. I took the liberty of moving your comment to the bottom of the talk page; that is the convention for new comments. Also, please sign your comments with four tildes ( ~ ); that will add your userid to your comment. OK, now to the good stuff! You made a good catch, although technically it's a true statement because the Kobe Marketing Association had never tried to export their beef from Japan to the U.S. until 2012. However, what actually happened is that the USDA didn't just ban the import of Kobe beef, but rather all Japanese beef. The cited reference does in fact say that. In a couple of minutes, I'll change the article to reflect that. Thanks for finding that problem! --Larry/Traveling_Man (talk) 15:41, 18 February 2017 (UTC)

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