Talk:Kobe beef/Archive 1

Beef in Japan
Just because Lucies Farm has permission to reprint from Beef in Japan on the WWW, doesn't give Wikipedia permission to use the same material directly. I'm afraid that, as informative as it may be, that whole 80% or so of the article has to go, until someone can rewrite it in non-copyright-violating form (and preferably more specific to Kobe beef, less about general Japanese cattle husbandry, which belongs in a separate article).

Unless, of course, you get permission with a GFDL-compatible agreement from Prof. Longworth to let us have it. I doubt that Lucies Farm would have the legal right to grant us that themselves (even though they rather wrongly claim a copright for themselves at the bottom of that page). -- John Owens (talk) 20:50, 2005 August 22 (UTC)

Error in article
In the article it says true Kobe beef in not exported from Japan, but I just paid $165 last night for a kobe steak dinner at MIX in Mandalay Bay Las Vegas. The staff explained to me that it was flown in from Japan and was not domestically raised.
 * You got ripped off, Japan exports NONE of its Kobe Wagyu product. The Wagyu in the USA is produced primarily for export as well, since the highest grades and quality are sent to Japan for the high prices they are willing to pay.

This article is written by a drunk man trying to impress a girl at a restaurant
From the article: "this beef is always at least several grades higher than USDA Prime." This statement is incoherent. USDA Prime is definitionally the highest grade. And grading just measures the marbling of beef. Its not some sliding scale of deliciousness.
 * Concur. What are the grades higher than USDA Prime? (Several grades implies that there are more than one.) Perhaps it could be reworked to indicate that the meat is still highly marbled, without resorting to superlatives. --Steelviper 16:18, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Technically its not correct, but the point of the matter is in comparison if you use a more definative grading scale such as the Aussie "Marbling Score" Scale, the Wagyu products tend to grade significantly higher. A USDA Prime tends to grade at the bottom of the MS Scale, with scores around MS2 to MS3, but the general Wagyu product would grade more in the range of MS 5-7 and the MS8-10 product is ALL exported from Australia (AND THE US) to Japan.
 * Australian marbling is 1-9. Anything considered over 9 is rated 9+.  Japanese marbling scores go 1-12.  Check page 8   As an aside if you're Australian you can get 9+ beef at the new Rockpool in Melbourne so not all of it is going to Japan.  I also know that several US restaurants are also serving Aussie 9+. Jaydjenkins 05:33, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

well, since it's exported, i guess it no longer qualifies as kobe steak when you ate it.

i was unaware that beef could be used in sashimi as stated in your article - surely this is a mistake?
 * At least check the sashimi article before deleting the link to it. John Reed Riley 04:03, 16 August 2006 (UTC)


 * I casually happened upon this entry and found one seemingly drunken boast that i had to delete.. AND IM DRUNK! --Kvuo 05:19, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

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I was under the impression Kobe beef is an accepted export of Japan. Is this incorrect? Is this because the population of Japan will pay more for this beef than the rest of the world? If so, can we include this in the article? K thx. - Anonymous 11:53, 07 September 2006 (UTC)

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No it's not. The Japanese have a tendency to not export their finest things on purpose, not just beef or food in general. The idea is for you to go there in person to experience it. It's a sad but true fact.

Lex

Kobe Bryant factoid
I deleted the mention of Kobe Bryant being named after beef, since Kobe is a relatively common African-american name that has a completely different etymology from Kobe beef.- Moshe Constantine Hassan Al-Silverburg | Talk 07:35, 13 October 2006 (UTC)


 * His parents did in fact name him after the Japanese beef after seeing Kobe beef on the menu of a Japanese restaurant prior to his birth.

--TheAznSensation 23:42, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

Kobe Beef section question
I'd like to add a link to FAQs about Kobe beef, other than the one by Morgan Ranch, which sells something they call Kobe Beef, but which, in fact, is legally not. I won't slam Morgan Ranch in public though! Would this be alright? Friday33 16:52, 12 November 2006 (UTC)Friday33
 * I would go further and say that if the Morgan Ranch link is providing incorrect information about Kobe Beef, then it should be removed. I was personally thinking about adding a section to talk about some of the improper use of the phrase "Kobe Beef" in the US.  If the FAQ is more specific about Wagyu beef from Kobe and you feel that it is a non-trivial source then add it! Jaydjenkins 05:22, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

More information
This article needs information about how the cows are raised/treated, the treatment of the beef, etc. 69.138.26.126 15:49, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I think what the article really needs is a treatise on the perception of Kobe beef in the West. As a japonologist, I have been asked many times (and I believe many of the people that seek out this article are interested in this as well) about the 'legend' of Kobe beef and the alleged massaging of the cows and whatnot. I usually tell people that a lot of info about Japan, the Japanese and their ways is immensely exaggerated, but to tell the truth, I have no idea whether Kobe cows really do get massages or not. I would appreciate more info on this from somebody more knowledgable. TomorrowTime 18:14, 30 June 2007 (UTC)


 * There are also rumors that Kobe cattle are fed on veal of all things. No idea if this is true or not, but a section on Kobe beef folklore or rumors would be quite useful, as well as any confirmed details of the actual practices that are known.  Prom77 03:34, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
 * It's an unreliable rumors because the Japanese goverment prohibited breeding of cattle with MBM. (Ref.飼料及び飼料添加物の成分規格等に関する省令)--Mujaki 16:32, 17 October 2007 (UTC)


 * This article is interesting but seems to suggest only cows that need nursing back to health are given beer? http://luciesfarm.com/artman/publish/article_39.php 78.86.95.7 (talk) 17:14, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

Regarding how the cows are treated, I also think the article should include how the cows are slaughtered. I stayed away from Kobe beef for a while based on some rumors I heard about them being treated inhumanly, similar to veal. I was told that they are hung upside down, their throats slit and they are left to bleed to death, a very slow painful death. The reason they do this is to keep the muscles from constricting, therefore producing a more tender meat. Is this true?71.193.3.121 (talk) 05:21, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

Sure, why not? It makes them taste better. Treated inhumanly? Are they human? They are bread to eat. What's humane about that? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 210.79.174.227 (talk) 21:54, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

Actually, the cows are treated in the same manner as veal; they are imprisoned in a small cage for years. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ceevichee (talk • contribs) 21:00, 7 November 2009 (UTC)

Neutrality: "Kobe-style" beef
I had a concern about the following recently-added statement.
 * After all beef imports from Japan were banned for 4 years (when Mad Cow Disease was discovered there), many unscrupulous retailers began heavily marketing the US-raised beef as "Kobe-style" (while charging amounts impossibly low for true Kobe), in order to support the meat's consumer base. The ranchers claim any differences are largely cosmetic.

The citation listed does not support this harsh rebuke against U.S. beef. Although purists may dislike the leveraging of the "Kobe" name is there anything actually illegal or even objectively unethical based on any standard business practices that can be cited?

The "impossibly low" comment similarly seems to be an unsupported dig.

--Mcorazao 03:16, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I have no idea of the content. But I think the "impossibly low" comment is not a dig because Kobe beef is impossibly more expensive than foreign beef such as U.S. beef in Japan too.--Mujaki 16:55, 25 July 2007 (UTC)


 * I agree about the POV aspect. I've made a few changes to hopefully fix that up. That a look at it and if you're happy, you can remove the POV tag. Ka-ru 08:40, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

That's why my so-called $28 "Kobe Burger," which I had over the weekend, tasted a bit off. WTF~! TheAsianGURU (talk) 21:50, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Pedigree certificate
Someone has just added the following text:

"The restaurants in Japan that serve Kobe Beef take their tradition very seriously. In the best restaurants in Kobe you will find certificates covering the particular cow that you are eating. This certificate will read like a pedigree of a prized pet outlining the name, conception date, age of the particular cow, and will have a "nose print" (similar to a large finger print) for verification."

Really, I have never heard of this. I've eaten at one or two very reputable Kobe beef restaurants in Kobe and never encountered this. It sounds a lot like a hoax. I have removed it based on it be unsourced and sounding fantastical. If anyone can come up with a valid reference, then it can be added back to the article. Ka-ru 18:06, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Wagyu restrants (yainiku, sukiyaki, shabu shabu and steak), known as "牛肉トレーサビリティ法の対象店", post the numbers of beefs on the wall. The comsumer can know the informations of the beef by the number on the internet. (Ref. 牛肉トレーサビリティ by MAFF) I saw the numbers in some kobe beef restrants. And Kobe beef restrants and butcher's shops get certificate of the kobe beef. (Ref.神戸ビーフが届くまで) It seems that some restrants and shops inform the certificate to prove validity.--Mujaki 11:15, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

Yes this is true about the certificates. I work at a restaurant in San Francisco, one of the few that serve real kobe beef (miyazaki beef in our case) and we do have the certificate for every cow including name, weight, age at slaughter, muzzle print, parent's names and weights, everything. It's not a hoax. It should be available at any restaurant (in america at least) that serves real kobe beef (by the way ours is $95 for a 5 ounce steak!) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.181.1.216 (talk) 17:28, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

Kobe Bryant
OK, there have been a number of edits recently, pretty much all by one-off edits from IP addresses (not regular wiki editors) adding that Kobe Bryant is named after Kobe beef. I've removed them as they've been added as I don't really see this as relevant to this article. It's a relevant fact for the Kobe Bryant article, but for someone looking up this article, the fact that a basketballer's father named his son based on a restaurant menu is no relevance to the actual beef. What are people's opinion on this? Shouldn't this article just be about the beef? Ka-ru (talk) 08:25, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, I think many people don't mind that that Kobe Bryant is in See also section by WP:N; For example, he became a Kobe Ambassador because his name refers to Kobe beef ( Kobe city office, Kobe Shimbun). Incidentally, Japanese edition makes reference to Kobe Bryant and Steven Spielberg in See also section.--Mujaki (talk) 14:25, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Kobe Bryant's name may be spelled KOBE which is the romanized spelling for Kobe Japan, however the pronounciation of his name is not the way you say Kobe. Obviously his parents were ignorant of this fact. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 210.79.174.227 (talk) 21:57, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

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Beer
I got here from the Beef page which talked about how beer was used to feed the cows for Kobe Beed and this page contradicts that. The pages should probably be made to match with a source. 163.231.6.68 (talk) 17:44, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

Castrated Cow?
Really? Tell me how you castrate a cow. This article lacks a certain credibility.150.101.155.85 (talk) 02:04, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
 * See the discussion on the use of the term "cow" on page Cattle. At least some sources recognize "cow" as also having a non-sex-specific meaning. --Larry (talk) 03:23, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
 * OK, It seems that you CAN castrate a cow if you are an american. It just doesn't have the right ring about it somehow. A bit like milking a bull which is always a dangerous thing no matter which dictionary you use.150.101.155.85 (talk) 03:35, 25 May 2010 (UTC)