Talk:Kokeshi

Page contents not supported in other languages.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

子消し[edit]

I have heard that dead or stillborn children were one reason for the kokeshi doll; but, the recent edit that mentions slaughter and cannibalism is new to me.

Google shows a total of 3 hits for 子消し.

Is there any other resource on this besides the link that was posted? It seems to be a link to a junior high school project page, so it's possible that we are citing a joke made by a 13 year old... So, I commented it out for the time being.

Also, I completely removed part of the edit, referring to slaughtering of Tohoku-ites in Tokyo. Don't know if that's true or not, but even if it is, it doesn't have relevance to kokeshi as far as I can see. Neier 06:26, 5 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I've added sources for the 子消し bit (it's been published in several books), as well as a Japanese site that debunks it pretty thoroughly. Jpatokal (talk) 08:44, 11 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

71.113.46.202 (talk) 06:35, 5 December 2008 (UTC) I've never contributed to Wikipedia before, but feel compelled to comment. Is this the right place for this type of input?[reply]

When I visiting northern Japan in about 2001 or 2002, a senior Sony manager (with whom we had just finished two days of meetings) walked with me in a Kokeshi museum. He passed on oral history that had been passed to him when he was a child.

A long (unspecified) time ago, crops in northern Japan failed two years in a row. In the second winter, the townspeople put all the young children to death so the remaining food would be sufficient to keep others, presumably those able to work [my interpretation], alive through the winter. The Kokeshi dolls were objects of veneration, each acting as a proxy for a murdered infant. My understanding is that the locals kept Kokeshi altars in their homes for generations [again, my interpretation].

He also told me that historically, the dolls had abstract expressions of rage or profound sadness on their faces. Sometime during the 20th century, they gradually began to be painted with more pleasant expressions. The two c. 2000 dolls I bought (by different artists whose names I can't read) have "sad" eyes, but slightly upturned mouths. The impression is not one of downright happiness, but more like a sort of tacit amusement.

I realize this is not actual documentation, but I trust that the distinguished gentleman who told me the story was telling me the truth as he understood it. Assuming his memory was as precise as his communication and position of respect would suggest, this was probably close to the story told to him sometime in the 1930s [my estimate]. Perhaps others can confirm or deny this oral history.

Sorry, I have no account and a dynamically assigned IP address, so I'll sign below.

-Chris Wiklof, December, 2008 71.113.46.202 (talk) 06:35, 5 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Is this really appropriate?[edit]

"The word 'kokeshi' is also used in Japanese as a euphemism for 'dildo'." Is this really appropriate trivia? --Candy-Panda 00:05, 7 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I have taken the liberty to remove the euphemism statement because 1) it's inappropriate, 2) it's unnecessary, and 3) chances are, anything could be made into a euphemism and there's no reason to mention every instance on every page, especially when it's so unrelated to the subject matter. I also completely removed the cannibalism mention because I have found no evidence that it is true and because there are already established explanations for the origins and design of the kokeshi. -Nameneko 09:19, 7 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

That is what they are. This is funny. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.116.87.110 (talk) 15:28, 18 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Multiple instances of misinformation[edit]

I don't know how, when or why misinformation has crept into this article, but it's in serious need of some work. Two examples stand out to me:

  • (from the lede) "They (kokeshi) are exchanged amongst friends with written messages stored within them as tokens of friendship." This simply isn't the case. How could "messages (be) stored within them", considering the bodies are solid? I own about 80 examples of kokeshi going back to the 1920s and not one of them is hollow.
  • "Kokeshi were first produced by kijishi, artisans proficient with a potter's wheel, at the Shinchi Shuraku, near the Tōgatta Onsen in Zaō from where kokeshi making techniques spread to other spa areas in the Tōhoku Region." Again, this is nonsensical. First, because it is impossible to turn a tall piece of wood on a potter's wheel; wheels have no provisions for securely anchoring a wooden blank and using a chisel anywhere except perhaps very close to the surface of the wheel, would be impossible. And second, because -- other than at the coasts -- the Tohoku region is not a traditional thrown-pottery area; that was only produced in the lowlands where clay was plentiful. The kokeshi-producing areas of the Tohoku region are mountainous and forested, lacking in clay. Consequently, potters' wheels would not have been used in the kokeshi-producing areas.

Neither of these claims are sourced. If no one has any compelling reasons why these should be left in (and can adequately source them), I'm going to remove them. Bricology (talk) 08:11, 10 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I just caught a third error: under "Types", it states ""Creative" kokeshi (新型こけし shingata-kokeshi?) allow the artist complete freedom in terms of shape, design and color and were developed after World War II (1945)". There's no source listed for this claim, and it's wrong again; "shin'gata" simply means "new-style". "Shin'gata kokeshi" are usually a cutesy girl form characterized by a separate black turned-wood "bob" hairstyle that's attached to the head; these kokeshi are almost invariably the products of factories mass-producing them for big retailers (many of them aren't even made of wood). Actual "creative" (i.e., artisanal, experimental, individualistic) kokeshi are referred to as "sosaku-kokeshi" (創作こけし). Bricology (talk) 08:38, 10 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified[edit]

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 3 external links on Kokeshi. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 18 January 2022).

  • If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
  • If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 23:27, 11 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Kokeshi[edit]

Je to aj bábika z hororu as the god's will 188.112.70.19 (talk) 21:19, 3 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Kokeshi&oldid=1202515840"