Talk:Lammas

Cleanup
The paragraphs were badly out of order, so I went ahead and rearranged them into some semblance of an article, but there are still issues I don't feel qualified to tackle. I'm not sure what should go here, and what be moved to Lughnasadh; how accurate the Pagan info is; whether the names Lammas & Lughnasadh are actually related or just the traditions, etc. Lusanaherandraton 08:31, 1 August 2005 (UTC)

Youre right article says it is "loaf-mass day" and then "The name of Lammas originated from the 'Feast of Lughnasadh". OED says etym from OE hlaf-maesse loaf-mass. The christianisation of the pagan festival may be right - the name is probably old english. But I aint an expert :) HTH Saltmarsh 06:44, 7 September 2005 (UTC)

"Hlaf" means "bread" in Old English, not "loaf". The OED simple notes that the Modern English word "loaf" derives from "hlaf." Lammas means "bread-mass," not "loaf-mass." Gabriel Carpenter (talk) 15:05, 22 November 2012 (UTC)Gabriel Carpenter, Nov. 22, 2012.

Doubt very much that it is from 'Lughnasadh', it is more likely that it comes from a Germanic ceremony of the pre-Christian ANglo-Saxons. 'Gule' obviously comes from 'Jule'. DR. Martin Hesselius 16:49, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

It says it was called 'penis Day'. I highly doubt that. Someone correct with the PROPER name? -_-

The Ould Lammas Fair
The Ould Lammas Fair by Bridget Haggerty

The Ould Lammas Fair takes place in Ballycastle, Co. Antrim on the last Monday and Tuesday in August. It's one of the oldest fairs in Ireland and has been held without interruption for more than three centuries.

The Lammas Fair, or as Mr. John McAuley wrote in his famous song  ‘ the Oul' Lammas Fair’, takes place on the last Monday and Tuesday in August. The town also had a vibrant weekly market day which was founded in 1612, though it is virtually non existent today. The Lammas Fair is also famed for having an 'unbroken history', having taken place annually for the past 300 years but it origins go back to the legends and myths of Ireland.

The name of Lammas originated from the 'Feast of Lughnasadh'  or Lugh (Lu) and comes from one of the  legends of Ireland - one interpretation and there are as many as there are ways of spelling the names!, is as follows:-  Lugh was in legend a Sun God who had a mortal foster mother called Tailtiu, who in turn was a queen or princess in the firbolgs. The firbolgs (Meaning of the word is ‘Men of Bags’) were early inhabitants of Ireland and are said to have come from Greece or Spain - after settling in that country were put into servitude and forced to carry soil from the fertile plains to the higher ground. To do this they devised leather bags and became known as the ‘men of bags’ (firbolgs), eventually they became tired of this servitude and made coracles or boats from their leather bags and set sail - arriving in Ireland.

They lived here until invaded and ruled by the people of Dana (Tuatha de Danna). The Dana forced Tailtiu to clear a large area of woodland for the planting of grain and she died of exhaustion in the process. She was buried under a great mound which was called the ‘Hill of Tailtiu’ and Lugh instructed that each year a festival be held to commemorate his foster mother’s death - where there should be games and the feasting on the first fruits of the harvest. We find references in Ireland to the ‘Tailthiu Games’ and the ‘Games of Lugh’. Perhaps we can surmise that the Gillaspach or Gallaspick, son of Colla MacDonnell (who resided at kenbane Castle during the fourteenth century)and  who was killed fighting a  bull in ‘games’ in Ballycastle may have been taking part in the Lammas Fair. For the celebration of ‘Lu’ became known for games of athletic abilities too.

It is believed that the tradition of the festival of Lugh expanded into events and celebration through many cultures, we find the Lammas in Saxon times, in the West Indies and today we can find Lammas Fairs being celebrated throughout the world. With the arrival of Christianity to Ireland and its dominance as a faith, we find the festival of Lugh changing and adopting more Christian symbolisms - loaves of bread baked from the first harvest grain are placed on the church altar. The ‘Christianised’ name for the festival of Lugh becomes Lammas which means ‘loaf mass’. In medieval times we find references to the Lammastide – when craft fairs and pageants would be held. It is also thought to have been the time when Saint Catherine was celebrated - who gave rise to the term‘ The Catherine Wheel’, this came from Pagan worship when a wagon wheel would be tarred, taken to the top of a hill, set on fire and rolled down, symbolizing the decline of the Sun God ( Autumn Equinox). It is well known that the Catholic Church was never too comfortable with Saint Catherine. Feeling that she bordered too much on the side of myth, mystics and the old beliefs – they changed her day of celebration frequently and also at one point tried to de–saint her.

Today’s Lammas is a time of stalls, buying and selling, traditional music and horse trading – a local tradition exists of eating yellow candy called ‘Yellow Man’ and eating ‘Dulse’, a reddish sea weed of the variety ‘Palmaria palmata’ which has been eaten and used in medicine for centuries in Ireland. The ‘Oul Lammas Fair’ attracts people in their thousands from all over the world and is well worth a visit if your in the vicinity.

The Ould Lammas Fair by John Henry MacAuley

At the Ould Lammas Fair in Ballycastle long ago I met a pretty colleen who set me heart a-glow She was smiling at her daddy buying lambs from Paddy Roe At the Ould Lammas Fair in Ballycastle-O! Sure I seen her home that night When the moon was shining bright From the ould Lammas Fair in Ballycastle-O! Chorus At the Ould Lammas Fair boys were you ever there Were you ever at the Fair In Ballycastle-O? Did you treat your Mary Ann To some Dulse and Yellow Man At the Ould Lammas Fair in Ballycastle-O! In Flander's fields afar while resting from the War We drank Bon Sante to the Flemish lassies O! But the scene that haunts my memory is kissing Mary Ann Her pouting lips all sticky from eating Yellow Man As we passed the silver Margy and we strolled along the strand From the Ould Lammas Fair in Ballycastle-O! Chorus There's a neat little cabin on the slopes of fair Knocklayde It's lit by love and sunshine where the heather honey's made With the bees ever humming and the children's joyous call Resounds across the valley as the shadows fall Sure I take my fiddle down and my Mary smiling there Brings back a happy mem'ry of the Lammas Fair Chorus*


 * This well-known ballad was composed by John Henry "The Carver" MacAuley, the proprietor of the Bog Oak Shop in Ann Street, Ballycastle (now Dan McLister's News agency & Toy Shop). MacAuley was a bog-oak carver and from his skilled hands came all sorts of small objects such as round towers, pipe stands, ash trays, pen and ink stands, ornamental picture frames, farm animals and various designs. Born on a farm in Glenshesk, he was expected to follow in the farming tradition but when he was a child, he met with an accident which left him crippled. MacAuley was a gifted and a well known fiddle player. He also wrote a number of songs but the only one to be published was 'The Ould Lammas Fair'. He died in 1937, long before the song became popular.


 * I'm suspicious of the theory that the name "Lammas" derives from "Lughnasadh". Lammas was known as "hlaef-mass" to the Anglo-Saxons. &mdash;Ashley Y 19:54, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

Lammas and Lughnasadh
I am removing the claim that the name "Lammas" derives from "Lughnasadh". I don't see any evidence for it besides what Ronald Hutton mentions. &mdash;Ashley Y 19:58, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

Bää!
Lammas is also the Finnish word for sheep. J I P | Talk 13:28, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

LIke shavuot
I think it may have come from the festival of Shavuot but not sure, also can't say it without mentioning that its a copy Epl18

Another Lammas, Another Cleanup
I've removed a lot of repetitive and unsourced material. A good deal of it was interesting enough, but did not belong in this article so much as Irish mythology, Neopaganism or Wicca. A little expansion would be nice, so I'm going to read up on things and come back later, I think.--TurabianNights 21:38, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

How said?
How is it pronounced? Lamb-ass, or La-mass? Usually I never care for for etomology, but my brother and I both celebrate the Sabbat, yet we say it differently. Thank you, 76.171.210.88 (talk) 08:29, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Pron [læm' əs] — Preceding unsigned comment added by Moondancer (talk • contribs) 22:47, 31 July 2011 (UTC)
 * That is, /'læm.əs/ or . — Llywelyn II   12:02, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

Saturdays
So, obviously this isn't a major or common thing, but in reference to the old sense of 'silly' being blessed, holy, and fortunate, the OED has a quote calling the three Saturdays before and after Lammas "the six Silly Saturdays". Any more background about those observances? — Llywelyn II   12:02, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

Surely date is 1 of August
The opening to this article says that Lammas Day is celebrated on a day between August 1 and September 1, but my understanding is that Lammas Day always falls on the August 1. Vorbee (talk) 15:18, 29 July 2017 (UTC)

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Incorrect information
It is a pagan holiday Take Jesus fucking Christ out of it 105.213.145.58 (talk) 12:11, 26 January 2022 (UTC)


 * If you want to describe it as a pagan holiday, you will have to cite a reliable source that says that to support it. Perhaps you were confusing Lammas with Lughnasadh? -- The Anome (talk) 17:11, 26 January 2022 (UTC)

Lack of NPOV?
I don't quite know what is going on with this page. Half of it used to read like an attack on the holiday and very much lacked a NPOV. Many claims were either completely unsourced or relied on sources of dubious quality. In addition, I was unable to find the supposed quotes taken from William Hone's 'The Every-Day Book.' I don't know if the divergence from a NPOV was the result of vandalism or just an honest mistake, but I have done my best to remove the bias. I Love Fritz Haber (talk) 05:00, 29 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your edits User:I Love Fritz Haber. This article regularly experiences anonymous IP editors changing the content of the article to remove reliably sourced information and references. You happened to notice that. In the future, you can simply restore the previous version. I hope this helps. With regards, AnupamTalk 21:51, 29 July 2023 (UTC)