Talk:Laser tag

some problems
have not managed to bring myself to delete the international section, which does not have a proper place here. 64.121.75.19 (talk) 09:08, 9 March 2013 (UTC) seems to have information about zone which is not really relevant to this article.. does not list the types of lasertag

LASERTAG DOES NOT USE LASERS!!!!! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.210.81.125 (talk) 23:46, 8 February 2017 (UTC)


 * consumer
 * milsim
 * outdoor
 * arena
 * diy — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.121.75.19 (talk) 09:59, 7 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Fixed Cosmogoblin (talk) 17:36, 6 May 2017 (UTC)

Lasertag wiki and news
http://www.lasertagwiki.com/ http://www.lasertag.org/news/259-ilta-researches-laser-tag-origins.html

Ok, so its been a while
wasn't it agreed that listing specific systems or arenas here was bad? now i see several just tacked in there. and when did the article..... ya know.... get retarded? OK heres what i think needs to happen... The article Lasertag needs to turn into a disambiguation (spelling?) page. because this attempting to cover indoor outdoor home and homebrew (three wildly different things) in one article thing is just getting retarded. the article seems to have gone far downhill since i was last here.  so lets here it peeps whaddya think....?

Never participated in a wiki discussion or editing, so forgive any incorrect formatting or placement of these notes, but I stumbled upon this page today on google. There is some information in the article pertaining to the tournament scenes on the various systems that needs to be sorely corrected guys.

Laser Storm has never had the most successful tournament scene in the United States, or anywhere to my knowledge, in terms of either player participation or site turnout. By all accounts, on occasions the various teams have boycotted their national tournament because they can't ever agree on playing divided vs undivided arena.....

LaserQuest, by far, has always had the most consistant and largest tournament scene in the U.S. due in overwhelming part to their support of it and corporate owned stores.

Zone Systems and Lasertron are probably next in line after LQ. The article could probably stand to mention that Lasertron had a very active tournament scene in the past, prior to the last 3 years (although it is so much better organized and run now).

Qzar, I believe, had a very large following as well before it went belly up, but I couldn't speak to actual figures with that system. I'd even be willing to bet that when Dark light was regularly having DLWC in the US, they probably got larger turnouts than Laser Storm.

I'm not trying to bash Storm or anything, but the article is pretty blatantly incorrect guys....

Some notes about the US Zone competitive scene that are incorrect in the article, since I can speak to that much better than most other systems:

1) There were very few 'corporate stores' in the US even when Ultrazone Corporate (in Las Vegas) did exist from around 1993-1999. They ran on a franchising business model and the majority of sites were (and currently are) privately owned. Las Vegas NV, Sherman Oaks CA, and Tampa FL were corporate stores back then, but not many others beyond those.

2) I wouldn't refer to 'Ultrazone' by that name in the article. I would probably use 'Zone Systems', as this is the North American distributor and what P&C Micros (the manufacturer) refers to the equipment by generally.

3) The U.S. Zone tournament scene officially ran from 1995 until about december of 2004. It has since started back up as of June of 2007, running on a current pace of about 5 major events per year at this point, with US Nationals IX taking place all next week in Washington DC.

4) If this discussion is not limited strictly to North America, I would estimate that Zone Systems actually has the largest world-wide tournament scene participation, as Australia, New Zealand, the UK, Sweden, France, and Finland in addition to the US, all have very large, very active player bases.

Not here to get in a p*ssing contest or anything, just want to provide some insight. If you need any zone systems information for the article, history-wise, I can generally provide it or get a hold of it if you want.Assassinuz (talk) 21:41, 24 June 2008 (UTC)Pete

Self-Promotion?
While I think that the Zone World Championships are great, they're hardly the only ones in the world. There are some that are really kind of small, but they do in fact attract an international crowd. The way this article is currently written, it seems like promotion--as if that's the only championships on an international scale, which is not the case (even if they are the largest). I'm not sure how to correct it, but I think some attention to the way this is presented is highly necessary so that this doesn't become promotional in nature. --Red Heron (talk) 11:43, 31 December 2014 (UTC)

Vandalism?
Recently an anonymous contributor added this information: "There are skeptics that debate the actual origins of Laser Tag, including Dr. Felix Nordstrom, once a managing member of the Federation of American Scientists Military Analysis Network (FAMSMAN), who later worked as a substitute teacher at the University of Mexico, gave his testimony at the United Nations in 1995 arguing for a critical update of Laser Tag's historical record." I have tagged it as Fact and unless the requested reference is added within the next few days, I plan to delete this highly suspicious addition. I can find no mention on the 'net of any Dr. Felix Nordstrom nor of the University of Mexico (though there is a National Autonomous University of Mexico, aka UNAM), and the whole concept that FASMAN or the UN would give half a hoot about the history of Laser tag seems quite ludicrous. I think someone is having a go at us...

Update 06 FEB 2007: Okay, I have removed it since the anonymous contributor has not resumed contact nor made any other "contributions" since adding that.

gah?
well i guess that answers my, what the holy hell happened to this page question..... well its definately alot shorter and more to the point, but it seems the remaining bits were.. murdilated? and now why do you want to get rid of Commercial Laser Tag Systems —Preceding unsigned comment added by Whateverpt (talk • contribs) 23:26, 17 September 2006


 * I don't want to "get rid of" that article so much as merge it, we don't really need two articles. I took a lot of material back, I'd like to add as much as possible back, but want to do so in a way that doesn't leave it as a disorganized mess, less drastic cleanup measures hadn't worked in the past and I haven't had the time for a rewrite. - Stephanie Daugherty (Triona) - Talk - Comment - 01:48, 21 September 2006 (UTC)


 * i disagree that the two articles don't help.. the second fufills its function quite well.. ~whatever~

Archives

 * 17 September 2006 and earlier

Current Cleanup Tasks

 * Rewrite article (in progress - Stephanie Daugherty (Triona) - Talk - Comment - 19:57, 17 September 2006 (UTC))
 * Find a way to include a listing of notable systems.
 * Properly source all information.
 * Reinsert information from Talk:Laser tag/temp.
 * Merge Commercial Laser Tag Systems back in.

Rewriting
I've started to do a rewrite of the article, since it was getting out of hand. It's been cleanup tagged since May 2006, and its been getting steadily worse. Please help by going slow in adding material back, and by properly sourcing any material you add. This article has a lot of potential, and I'd love to see it become a featured article someday! - Stephanie Daugherty (Triona) - Talk - Comment - 19:59, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

Where did the categories go?--Choz 03:57, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Wanted: Photographs
Photographs under an acceptable license would be a huge improvement to this article. (We can't support a fair use claim here, so it has to be a free license.)

I personally would like to see at least one photo of an arena interior, a photo of a player wearing equipment indoors, and someone playing outdoors.

The interior shots will be somewhat difficult due to lighting, so if a skilled photographer wants to help that would be great! - Stephanie Daugherty (Triona) - Talk - Comment - 23:06, 17 September 2006 (UTC)


 * We've got thousands of such photographs, however not all lasertag belongs to any one system. - whatever 03:29, 20 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Very much true, there are a lot of systems out there, and they are very different from each other. I'm still seriously hoping to try to get articles for as many systems as possible. - Stephanie Daugherty (Triona) - Talk - Comment - 01:37, 21 September 2006 (UTC)


 * grumble. i'll play the formatting game, you do get that people delete new subjects as soon as we get them up? ~whatever~

For some reason, there is a lot of fan zealotry in the current Laser Tag scene. That is annoying, but more importantly, totally irrelevant to a good encyclopedia article. So, why doesn't everyone who has a bias put their preferences for one type of equipment or another aside, and think about this: "What kind of picture(s) would you expect to see in a Real Encyclopedia? If you are a manufacturer, arena owner, or just hardcore fan of one brand, does it look like a fair representation of what the equipment commonly looks lik? If it does, post it; if not, don't or we'll just have to find something else.

There are several types of laser tag equipment that are relevant to this article. Images of historical value showing early equipment and arena, pictures of the most common commercial and home equipment, and those of contemporary equipment, in which way the (one again, most common) equipment has changed lately, aside from current fashion sense, such as homebuilt to Milestag spec.

I will watch and try to revert deletions of legitimate contributions as best as I can figure out in wikipedia's messy backside. --Choz 03:16, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

What I suggest is to use the pictures of the distinct systems, for nobody could say you're preffering one or another manufacturer. Megaboss 12:42, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

And for God's sake, please forget about military simulators (such as MILES system) - they have absolutely nothing to do with the current commercial systems. Megaboss 12:44, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

I don't know about anyone else here, but I prefer no system over any other, in respect to this article. In fact, I am very fond of wikipedia's neutral POV. Whatever images look most arch typical are most appropriate. If that means that Bob's Laser Stuff Inc. makes the most generic, universal and plain equipment, is that really any endorsement? This is acceptable in other wikipedia articles, as well. I would recommend that we avoid "publicity shots" or pictures and captioning that would make the brand particularly obvious to a novice approaching the article. Of course, since we have no pictures, this is all a bit theoretical.

If there are several fundementally different designs in common usage, there should perhaps be illustrations of each. And if there is more than one pic, potential perception of bias can be diffused by including equipment from different vendors.

MILES is historically significant in laser tag. It has a lot to do with current commercial systems, in a fashion. Originally it was some influence on the design of equipment, and it's implementation affected the laser tag culture (for example, its name was 'borrowed' for MILEStag). Since then, MILES2000 has borrowed a lot from the developments in the private sector, and offers very similar technical features. However, since it has a page already, it seems that mention of it should be fairly brief on the main page. --Choz 06:21, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

I'm in the middle of a deal for some REAL laser tag gear. When it get's here, I'll get some pics f it. who the hell wrote the article, btw? They go on rambling about all sorts of gear, but the term Laser Tag was coined by Worlds Of Wonder (WoW) if I remember my 80's history right - so WHY isn't it prominently listed in the article????

99.149.122.28 (talk) 18:31, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

Hello

Moderating
I don't like the way the page has been "rewritten". The "old" version was much more interesting. It's a FREE encyclopedia, and - to my mind - nobody should moderate any page the way it has been done to "Laser Tag". Not the "moderator", but the READERS may decide what information is worth publishing... (Megaboss 18:04, 8 November 2006 (UTC))

I think we are a long way from any sort of revert-war, but a lot of people expect the article to follow the flow or format of any other wikipedia article, so a bit has been temporarily lopped off, as people work to make it more of a traditional document. None of that stuff is gone, AFAIK, just bookshelved into history. Feel free, to rewrite, or snip the best of the existing work, and re-integrate it into a greater article for all of us.--Choz 03:34, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Two steps forward and...
I see there is an additional maintainer here. Goody!. And citations are beginning to appear. I've been superbusy and not keeping up with things on this page. It appears that some material has gone, and new stuff has appeared in places. Not certain how to deal with the layout, but new material seems to be be shove in, not necessarily near other similar existing material. Additionally, the factuality and relevance of some of the new material is suspect to me. I may be wrong, but I leave that to the powers of wikidom to decide.

"Guns" and "Arenas & Play Fields" need the most help for now.

Choz 08:11, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Changed Dynamic of this Page
Pre-total reconstruction of this page, the information was about 60% indoor commercial tag and 40% outdoor tag. While I have no objection to sharing the spotlight, the page has taken an almost 100% turn towards outdoor/homebrew tag, even to the point of citing commercial manufacturers of outdoor gear for sharing in a open source standard.

There's also a link to some group called the "Youth Rocketry and Laser Tag Association." I belong to several outdoor email lists and occasionally check the more important forums. I've never heard of these guys and their 'huge membership' seems to be mostly comprised of about 20-25 kids once a summer. Our indoor facility averages 80+ players an hour on most weekends and they can't even get that many for a single event in the summer. I'm going to yank this sentence for being off topic, spammy and not relevant the industry I've been involved in for years.

I have problems with other elements, too. For instance...

"The design of indoor laser tag equipment etc., etc." goes on to quote that indoor equipment is designed to be used outdoors in a very negative light. Indoor equipment 'suffers dramatically.'

While I suppose this is true, there is no similar mention of the limitations and failures of outdoor equipment when used indoors or any of the advantages of indoor, arena equipment (real time scoring, better sensor coverage, symetrical arenas, etc.).

With all due respect, the article is beginning to take a slant that's not really fair for commercial indoor gear. The reality is, commercial, indoor laser tag facilities have a longer history (excluduing military use of MILES gear) and are simply more established. The largest outdoor hobby groups get together with 30-40 people for an event. The average commercial arena runs more players and people through their facility in an hour.

Denying this reality seems to be both unfair, counter to WIKI's purpose and counterproductive to anyone seeking honest information on laser tag.

(Jebock 20:20, 9 March 2007 (UTC))


 * I think the solution to that is more thorough referencing with inline citations. That there are several "references" in the article is somewhat misleading, as the overwhelming majority of information is not actually supported by reliable sources. Little if any information that is referenced cites Wikipedia:Independent sources, and may have potential conflict of interest issues. Many of the links seem to be more promotional than informational, to be honest. I don't know much on the subject at all, so I probably won't be able to help much to improve things, but this is how I'm seeing it. Hopefully it is of some help. Dancter 20:49, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

Outdoor Equipment
The note that a "citation is needed" is unneccessary. Physics will tell us that outdoor environments contain far more "noise" light than indoor environments. Sending a signal through that interference simply requires more power. The sensor's will have to be biased down to compensate for the light differential between outdoors and indoors, and as a result, require stronger signals to "break the squelch", so to speak. I'm removing the tag. CameronB 21:16, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

EWoW standard document
Hi. Just to let you know what I am happy that you guys have linked my EWoW 8 bit Protocol document as a reference (If you check it, you will see that I wrote it).

However, please note that your statement that it is an open standard taken up by manufacturers (ie Zone Systems) isn't quite right.

The way it worked is as follows: 1. Zone systems created the protocol 2. Zone systems intended the protocol would be standard, and informed me of such intent 3. I created the document and published it.

So, rather than Zone Systems using an open standard, it is the other way around: They created the standard, I documented it. It is therefore now an open standard.

Dave Robinson Dangerous Oz 10:06, 2 April 2007 (UTC)Dangerous Oz

Lasertag Boxhill
When I came to this article it was tagged as not being in any categories. However, there were categores in the wiki source code. The code was being corrupted by a badly made comment (that wasn't closed. This comment included three links. Two were obviously related to laser tag, so I put them into an "External links" section. The third is the link above. It contains slang used in a tag game, however this slang is totally different to slang I've heard for Lazer Tag. I'm not sure it is important enough to include things that are only connected to one type of system. I'll leave it up to others to decide. If you want to create a "laser tag culture" section, you might want to use this as a reference.

Lazer tag/Laser Tag Merge
They're the same thing. We should merge those, too. Deletion Quality 16:56, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

I'd tend to disagree. Laser tag (this article) is a generic term referring to the overall genre of light-gun based games, whereas Lazer Tag is the actual brand name of a specific toy line (by Worlds of Wonder) within that genre. They probably shouldn't be merged outright unless every single specific product of that nature (like Photon) is merged into the article as well - which would make it ungodly huge. I'd say it's on par with merging the Playstation 3 article directly into video games - which would clearly be a bad idea. In any case, I'd say "laser tag" and "Lazer Tag" are distinct enough to rate separate articles, even if the latter is somewhat sparce at the moment. Hossenfeffer 03:59, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

I agree with Hossenfeffer, and for that reason, I have removed the merge tag. "Lazer Tag" is indeed a branded version by WOW, which is now marketed by Hasbro (current iteration is "Lazer Tag: Team Ops"), whereas "laser tag" (or "lasertag") just refers to the game in general (although the single word spelling of "lazertag" can refer to it generically). Brittany Ka 18:04, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

Laser Skirmish
Laser Skirmish (at least in australia) is what the outdoor laser tag scene is/is called.

I'm requesting somebody with a little better wikiskills than I create a "see also" link or something.

and anybody that can add references to Outdoor laser tag third party atricles there please do so

LINK SUPPLIERS
I've been searching for about ten years for affordable laser tag build it yourself style kits or ready made things. I'm specifically talking about guns that cost LESS than $1000+ and kits that cost LESS than $200 - $300 which are clearly massive mark ups on the actual value of this items. Further 99% of suppliers only sell to businesses and not to individuals, thus the only alternative left open to enthusiasts who are not in the US or Europe (oddly, the biggest supplier is in AU yet NONE of their 'battlefields' are located here) is the cheap shitty sega lock on style guns or other toy variants.

PLEASE RECTIFY THIS AND LIST SOMETHING, ANYTHING. Please. :( 122.107.56.47 (talk) 11:44, 8 May 2008 (UTC) here i come to lame the day, first the ilta maintains a list of used equipment for sale, and if your looking for arena lasertag on the cheap this may be the way to go.  if thats not for you, try | dark tag they were once a shining hope for the tag community, and have since gone no where, and sold out.  i digress. i've never played darktag, but it seems to be decent do-it-yourself-tag on the cheap.  AU = australia? isn't it called laser skirmish down there and like, all over the place? any way hope that works for ya. ~WHATEVER~  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.15.65.197 (talk) 17:13, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

Reference Verifiability
Disclaimer: Very new to Wikipedia standards and protocol.

It seems to me that there is a dead link for citation #6: http://www.grandparents.com/gp/events/phoenix.html?page=10 There seems to be no reference to the page in the WayBack Machine or any other archive, so I'm removing the citation.

It also seems that citation #7, #8 & #9 regarding Stratum's size: http://www.scottsdalecvb.com/listings/index.cfm?action=displayListingInit&listingID=27510&catID=1573&subCatID=20 http://www.employeenetwork.com/Stratum.htm http://www.employeenetwork.com/Stratum.htm Are merely summaries of commercial listings, and wouldn't meet the standards for proper criteria for a citation? Quite frankly, I don't discount the fact that they exist and are 13,000 sq. ft. but none of the support sources are credible.

Also, in regards to Laser Rock, I think this would serve as a better source: http://www.accessmylibrary.com/coms2/summary_0286-7082099_ITM It seems more credible as it is from Gale Research (and has less ads :P ) I'm not saying the original citation is wrong, just that this is cleaner.Eleri at&#39;Xalien (talk) 16:34, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

Stratum is not the largest laser tag arena anymore. America's Largest Laser Tag Arenas Forekicks has the largest laser tag arena in North America. They have 3 locations and each location has 15,000 square feet arena. The width is 85 feet, and the length varies between 176 feet to 180 feet. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Brightmommy (talk • contribs) 06:32, 2 May 2014 (UTC)

Editing history
The following edits should remain in this article and the reasoning behind them;

1) CURRENT: In 1982, George Carter III began the process of designing an arena-based system for playing a scored version of the game, a possibility which had initially occurred to him in 1977 while watching the film Star Wars. He opened the first Photon center in Dallas, Texas in 1984, but he was slightly preempted by the 1984 opening of Star Laser Force in Houston, TX, which was designed by Lee Weinstein, who had also been inspired by Star Wars

REVISION: In 1982, George Carter III began the process of designing an arena-based system for playing a scored version of the game, a possibility which had initially occurred to him in 1977 while watching the film Star Wars. He opened the first Photon center in Dallas, Texas in 1984, but he was slightly preempted by the 1984 opening of Star Laser Force in Houston, TX, which was designed by Lee Weinstein, who had also been inspired by Star Wars (Note: Star Laser Force was developed by Otis I Lewis of Hockley, TX and hired two computer consultants to design the prototype in the location on Rice Ave in SW Houston. Later, he hired another consultant, Lee Weinstein to improve the gun used with the equipment for the game.

The revision specifically makes a reference to the creation of Star Laser Force and its birth location.

2) CURRENT: In 1986, the first Photon toys hit the market, nearly simultaneously with the Lazer Tag toys from Worlds of Wonder and several other similar infrared and visible light based toys. The Christmas season of 1986 was the real beginning of home laser tag, and soon millions of kids would be playing laser tag with each other anyplace they could. Worlds of Wonder went out of business around 1988, and Photon soon followed in 1989, as the fad of the games wore off. Today there are laser tag arenas all over the world bearing various names and brands, as well as a large variety of consumer equipment for home play and professional grade equipment for outdoor laser tag arenas and businesses. In 1999, Stratum Laser Tag, located in Mesa, Arizona opened as the World's Largest Technotainment Laser Tag Arena. The World's Largest title was given to Stratum by the president of the International Laser Tag Association. It is 13,000 sq ft (1,200 m2). on its ground level alone and 15 levels of 90 ramps, towers, and bridges reaching heights of 20 feet (6.1 m)

REVISION: In 1986, the first Photon toys (etc, )... '''Laser Quest is privately owned and operated by Versent Corporation ULC, with the corporate office based in Mississauga, Ontario, Canada. The first Laser Quest in North America opened in 1993, and there are currently 58 Laser Quest locations in operation in Canada and the United States. The first Laser Quest Centre opened in 1989 in Manchester, England and there are now over 125 worldwide. Versent employs over 850 people across North America, thereby making it the most successful laser tag business in the world. '''

In 1999, Stratum Laser Tag (etc)...

The revision is a point in laser tag history when Versent entered the laser tag market in North America and therefore, should remain as part of the time-line of laser tag history. If in need to be re-written, so be it, but it should remain as a part of the history time-line. The link to the website has other links to show validity of the statement of LQ's history, number of centre's, etc.

I have other edits, but I believe these two take precedence. Thank you for your time. —Preceding unsigned comment added by JoeSloMoe (talk • contribs) 01:11, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

++++++

May 14, 2011 - Edited informatics about Star Laser Force as there was no proof of the claim that it opened before Photon in Dallas. There is verifiable evidence that is corroborated through numerous sources as to the opening date of Photon. The author of the article cited even stated that he could not verify Lee Weinstein's claim. Wiwki standards require information claimed needs to be sourced to verifiable information. Therefore, the claim that Star Laser Force opened before Photon was removed.

May 15, 2011 - Edited the reference to Laser Quest as (1) wasn't relevant to the beginning history of laser tag; (2) no other operating laser tag companies starting dates were included; and (3) the rest of the Laser Quest statement appeared to be propaganda; and (4) details of the specific company Laser Quest can be located at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser_Quest. -- ILTA Laser Tag —Preceding unsigned comment added by ILTA Laser Tag (talk • contribs) 02:50, 16 May 2011 (UTC)

June 17, 2011 - Updated information regarding Star Laser Force. The ILTA received a copy of the Certificate of Occupancy for Star Laser Force located at 5810 South Rice Road, Houston, TX. The CoA was issued on April 16, 1985. Certificate of Occupancy are only issued when a building has met all the building codes applicable and only then may it open to allow members of the public to enter. Since Photon Dallas opened March 24, 1984, clearly the claim of Star Laser Force having predated Photon is impossible and is now provable that Photon Dallas was the first commercial laser tag system to exist.ILTA Laser Tag (talk) 03:30, 18 June 2011 (UTC)

Removed Stratum Claim
Removed the following:

"In 1999, Stratum Laser Tag, located in Mesa, Arizona opened as the World's Largest Technotainment Laser Tag Arena. The World's Largest title was given to Stratum by the president of the International Laser Tag Association. It is 13,000 sq ft (1,200 m2). on its ground level alone and 15 levels of 90 ramps, towers, and bridges reaching heights of 20 feet (6.1 m)"

The section was removed as there was no evidence to the claim nor citation and thus violated the encyclopedic nature of Wikipedia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.226.142.4 (talk) 05:06, 21 June 2011 (UTC)

Roughhousing?
I doubt that most venues prohibit "roughhousing", since that is an American slang term that would not be understood by most. I suggest that the reference be changed to simply "physical contact".Royalcourtier (talk) 02:17, 21 February 2016 (UTC)

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Larry Takashi
Is Larry Takashi based on a real person? Drsruli (talk) 21:52, 12 February 2024 (UTC)