Talk:Leicester/Archive 1

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Archive 1

Recent titles won by local teams

The Guinness Premiership article suggests that Tigers did not win (the then Allied Dunbar Premiership) in 1998. Anybody have a source for this information? Guinness 23:38, 30 October 2005 (UTC)

Leicester First

Anyone got a reference on the first roundabout fact. I can't find any info on it.

Jimmmmmmmmm February 23 2006 22:47

I think I found this on bbc.co.uk somewhere, but can't find it again now. I'll have a look again when I get more time. I also saw the information in http://waterheat.tripod.com/id1.html (or more specifically google's cache of this page). Guinness 18:24, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
Also found the same here, although it doesn't claim to be an authorative source http://www.answers.com/topic/clock-tower-leicester Guinness 18:29, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
And another one http://www.webplay.org/themes_leic_why2.php Guinness 18:31, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

Ethnic minorities

There appears to be a Typo as to the year when Leicester is expected to have a non-white majority. Under General Information: "non-white . . . census in 2011." and in the history, Post WWII it says: "Leicester is expected by 2012 . . ."

What is it? 2011 or 2012?

The following is someones opinion, he leaves no source: "Dubious honour" is not NPOV, and although Leicester may have a non-white majority in a few years, it's also probable that white people will remain the largest ethnic group.

That was me, and it's simple arithmetic (I shouldn't have written "probably"). The CRE estimate is that by 2011, 50% of the city's population will be ethnic minorities[1], which means 50% will not be. Since there are several ethnic minority groups, the non-minority group (i.e. white people) will still be the largest group. --ajn (talk) 21:03, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Featured Article

This has been nominated as a featured article but has been turned down. Apparently is to listy and the intro isn't long enough. Anyone who can help me sort this, I would love to see this make the main page. Jimmmmmmmmm 10:47 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Famous people

George Fox, as far as I can tell, has no connection with the city itself - born in the county. Lady Jane Grey is I suppose a little more justifiable, given that her home is visible from the city. What's Alastair Yates's connection? There's a list at University of Leicester which needs to be raided (Philip Larkin, Alec Jeffreys, etc). --ajn (talk) 09:17, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Quite a lot of the 'Famous Leicesterians' are from outside of the city. I'm not sure what the convention is for this sort of list - would it be better to move some of them to a section on the Leicestershire page? --Mike2121212 18:37, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

Photos

I'm going to go and take a bunch of photos of stuff in the city centre.

So far I have on the list - Cathedral, the Market, Clock Tower and probably Gallowtree Gate and Humberstone Gate, Universities, the Station, the Guildhall, Jewry Wall, the River, the Shires, the Haymarket, St Martins', the Town Hall. Anything else?


Go for New Walk Museum, the Westcotes buildings like Pex, National Space Centre, the Jain Temple and the Phoenix.

How about photos of the magazine, St Mary de Castro, the old remains of the castle next to Newarke House museum, the train station and the view down London Road with Bradgate Park in the distance.

Maybe you could get some of Spencfield Lane near Downing Drive and/or some pics of inside the Shires. I was wondering if you could also get one or two of the area near Abbey Park and Bradgate Street, not to far away. The the idea for the National Space Center is a great idea. Cheers - Storms991- 1/3/06

  1. What about Abbey Park? The festival should be on soon (or have we missed it)? StormCloud 12:26, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

Urban area?

Somebody put the urban area figure for Leicester as 441.000. I know this figure came from the ONS urban areas headcount thingy, but I'm almost certain it is wrong, as it appears to count Leicester's urban area twice. A more reliable figure is about 330.000. what does anyone else think. G-Man * 15:42, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

The city itself has a population of 280k according to the city council website, 319k according to the government. Adding up the figures there gives a population of 416601, the 441213 is from here, I'm assuming the "missing" 25k is from various little villages. The figure doesn't seem unreasonable if you are including Oadby, Wigston, Glenfield, Thurmaston, Birstall, Leicester Forest East, various bits of other suburbs which poke out into the county and some of the surrounding towns (Kirby Muxloe, Cosby, Groby, Whetstone, Ratby), all of which are in the Leicester Urban Area. Where is your "more reliable" 330k coming from? --ajn (talk) 15:59, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Waste Management

Suggest the page has an extra section about waste management and recycling in the city. Snowman 17:17, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

"Closest cities and towns"

Is there really any need for this information? Especially considering that a few of the places listed aren't even that close (>100 miles) 87.114.128.39 16:34, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

Yup. It's pointless and it's gone. Atraxus 16:03, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

Polish

The following link discusses the post war immigrations of Poles into Leicester. [2] In the 1960's, Leicester underwent development under the creative vision of a Polish architect, likely to be the architect mentioned in the article. I think this should be mentioned in the Leicester article. I know little about it, I think it should be noted, and would benefit from further development from Leicester Wikipedians.

--Minotaur500 20:06, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Leicester/Leicestershire

There seems to be a lot of content being added to both this and the Leicestershire article recently, resulting in considerable duplication. This article links to the one about the county, so can I suggest that content added here should be specific to the city. Thanks.--Michig 14:07, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

Demographics

Unlike most articles about towns and cities, Leicester does not contain a section on demographics, this is an extremely important section, describing the people of the city. Also the fact that Leicester is soon to become the only place in Europe where indigenous people are a minority, has not been made much of a point of, and is intertwined in the history section for some reason. Someone please consider the addition of a demographics section, which will include age, gender and most importantly for Leicester - ethnicity. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.107.203.212 (talk) 20:36, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

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BetacommandBot (talk) 23:01, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

History

I know the market and Gallowtree Gate mark the location of the old city walls, but were these the same as the Roman walls? I've removed the claim about Roman street layout until we can find some evidence. I've also chopped some of the history section around and will do more tonight - there's lots of good stuff there but it needs rearranging and I'll also look up one or two books and pamphlets I have at home. --Andrew Norman 16:12, 13 May 2005 (UTC)

There seems to be some confusion as to whether the martyrs mentioned in Bede are from Caerleon, Chester or Leicester. It seems all three places had cults of Mithras and their latin names were similar: Legionum Urbs was the name for both Chester and Caerleon, and Legoria was Leicester's name. Which might explain why it isn't clear which is the place mentioned. I'm using a translation of Bede by Rev. William Hurst, in 1814, other translations might have different answers. Can anyone help by giving some information which could sort this out? It might be that the information I've added about the martyrs Aaron and Julius should be moved to the Caerleon/Chester pages or reproduced there (with a caveat saying that it is only "possibly" the location for the martyrs of course). --Amatire 15:12, 14 November 2005 (UTC)

Added short section on Civil War. Richard Holmes (military historian) War Walks program showed there are still cannon ball marks on the Newarke. JRPG (talk) 09:34, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

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Dialect

I just want to point out, that the section of "Dialect" on the Leicester page is completely untrue. As someone who lives in Leicester, I have never heard of people talking like what is describe in the segment. "Chisit" is not even heard of. The terms, or colloquialisms aren't even used. If someone is going to make an edit on the town I live in, at least make it true, and STATE your references. I believe the dialect part should be deleted. No one speaks like that. And, Ratby isn't pronounced as "Ratbeh" by the whole. It is just pronounced as Rat-bee. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.68.84.105 (talk) 13:34, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

Countytownness

I was under the impression that Leicester hadn't been the County town of Leicestershire for some while - and that Glenfield had that honour. Does anyone know for certain? -- Morwen

The headquarters of the County Council is County Hall, Glenfield, Leicester, LE3 8RA. Looking at the map, County Hall is (just) outside the boundaries of the City of Leicester, which is a unitary and is not administered by the County Council. So I guess the "honour" belongs to the parish of Glenfield rather than to Leicester. The "old counties" traditionalists might disagree. --rbrwr
I think, sociologically, the debate is whether the county town is the administrative centre of the region, or the commercial/religious/'traditional' centre. Having lived in Glenfield for most of my life, I can honestly say that it is neither a commercial or religious centre! County Hall is self contained, many employees do not live in Glenfield, and do not use what limited services are provided. So, personally, I would find it more accurate the describe Glenfield as the "administrative centre" rather than the county town. --TJWUK01

Taken from the history section:

It was then called after Lir, the British sea-god, who became the King Lear of the legend on which Shakespeare based his tragedy. "He (King Lear) it was", wrote Geoffrey of Monmouth in the 12th century, "that builded the city on the River Soar, that in the British is called Kaerleir, but in the Saxon Leicester (Leirchester)."

This doesnt make much sense, whats it on about G-Man 01:03, 28 Mar 2004 (UTC)

I believe it is saying that, according to this legend, Leicester was founded by King Lear and hence was called Leirchester (The Roman Town of Lear). The fact that this was written by Geoffrey of Monmouth immeadiate disqualifies it as fact, in my opinion.
I think the true origin of the name may come from the ancient name of the River Soar. In 753, the town was known as 'Legro Ceaster' (in other words, Roman Fort on the River Legro). Legro Ceaster is recorded later, followed by Legra Ceaster. By the Doomsday Book, the town was referred to a Ledecestre. In my opinion, this is a more plausable evolution of the name than the one stated by Geoffrey of Monmouth. It is concievable, of course, that the River Legro was named after a celtic god called Lir - but King Lear had nothing to do with it. --TJWUK01


I feel that the picture of the Clock Tower was better as the main picture than the view of Leicester city centre. The Clock Tower is one of the main features in Leicester. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sirrod2000 (talk • contribs) 16:51, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

Population

In 2001 Leicester was reported to be 9th biggest city in England with 400,000+ inhabitants - now it's 19th with 200,000 odd - what happened to that 200,000 people?

The population of the city itself id c.290,000. The population of the 'urban area' which includes areas around the city is 400,000 plus.--Michig (talk) 07:39, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

Online Community

LeicesterTalk.net is designed to provide more information on leicester and inhabitants, Leicester people can also share their opinions/interests/advice on a number of things related to leicester.

I challenge that it should be considered an external link OR that the other links of similar sites should be removed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.9.168.255 (talk) 14:28, 27 December 2009 (UTC)

I agree with the user at 86.9.168.255 Chevymontecarlo. 17:13, 26 April 2010 (UTC)
It is an unofficial forum and thus not allowed per WP:EL. Nouse4aname (talk) 10:59, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

Article balance

This article is totally top heavy on music. The section reads partly like a tourism guide. By comparison, very little is written about local industries. --Kudpung (talk) 09:12, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

I agree, and I am basically a music person on Wikipedia. This section needs editing down to a sentence, at most two per decade. There is no grounds for all the redlink bands in and albums in the 2000s section. I remain sceptical that we have to mention every music venue and frankly Leicester also has more than rock music and that needs to be mentioned too. I am a bit busy right now, but if someone else doesn't edit down I will try to get back for a cleanup, providing citations where available some time later on.--SabreBD (talk) 10:25, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

Largest city in the Region

Two points:

  1. This article is about the city of Leicester, not the Urban area, which is completely different, so comparing the Urban Area figures with others is irrelevant to the discussion of which city has the largest population.
  2. There is a source cited in the Demography section [3] that confirms that the latest figures for Leicester's population (289,700) are greater than those for Nottingham's (286,400).

If anyone has a source that shows that this has since changed, please present it here, otherwise leave the article alone.--Michig (talk) 16:50, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

The article actually says "with 441,213 living in the wider Leicester Urban Area," in the intro, so the question of Urban Area populations obviously isn't irrelevant. I don't think most serious people believe Leicester is bigger than Nottingham and I am from Derby, so have no axe to grind in that debate! Clearly the intro needs to distinguish between the narrow local authority population figure and the more generally accepted Urban Areas comparison, which it currently attempts to do anyway only to then make a false statement! Jamesinderbyshire (talk) 08:51, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
I don't think the Urban areas as defined by the government have any accepted meaning outside of ONS statistics. They are 'drive to work areas' rather than continuous conurbations. If you look at some of the towns and villages that were included in the Nottingham Urban Area, a large part of those figures comes from areas that are not part of the 'city' by any means. Looking at the cites themselves, by population, Leicester is the largest.--Michig (talk) 14:53, 27 December 2009 (UTC)
Looking around at cities in the UK on Wikipedia generally, there is frequently a point-scoring debate between various "rival" cities as to their populations - this seems to be a matter of ego or competition in some cases. Against that background it is surely better to have some objective criteria and the only trustworthy one is the ONS, since most other media sources IME turn out to be either confused, vague or wrong in subtle or less subtle ways. So then it's a case of which ONS source table/definition you take. In the case of Unitary Authorities like Leicester, you can use the Unitary Authority data, but that doesn't stand up very well as a national comparitor, since some Unitaries are essentially agglomerations of rural districts. Another possibility is local authority, but that is just hopeless as a "quick and dirty" count of "headline city population" which is what we are talking about in this instance. For example, Manchester comes out as smaller than Bristol on that criteria! So that just leaves Urban Areas, which was defined for this very purpose by ONS as a headline-comparitor for what people think of as a "city". Obviously in individual cases there are judgement calls about what makes up the contiguous urban conglomeration, but when you get in close and analyse them (as I have done) you will often find the ONS have it about right. In this case, it also tallies with the generally-held view that Nottingham is the largest city in the East Midlands, with Leicester second. Jamesinderbyshire (talk) 15:30, 27 December 2009 (UTC)
Well, no, the urban area figures are for just that - urban areas. Hence we have a figure for the West Midlands urban area that is far higher than the Birmingham population - surely you wouldn't argue that the urban area is Birmingham (which makes up less than half of the area in terms of population)? Leeds and Bradford are both distinct cities, but the ONS lumps them together as the West Yorkshire Urban Area - clearly the urban area here doesn't relate to a single city either. When we are writing about urban areas as defined by the ONS we use the urban area figures. When we are talking about cities we use whatever official figures are available that relate specifically to those cities, and the urban area figures simply don't fall into that category.--Michig (talk) 15:43, 27 December 2009 (UTC)
Well, yes actually. To many members of the public, "Birmingham" is what they call what is to demographers known as the West Midlands UA and "Manchester" is what the public often calls the Greater Manchester UA. This is and always has been a minefield of different interpretations and half-truths, which is precisely one of the reasons why the ONS attempt to create objective measurements of city and conurbation sizes. However, if it matters to have a figure that "proves" that Leicester is bigger than Nottingham, there is no reason why the article shouldn't list LA, Unitary and Urban populations. It's just the case that Nottingham Urban Area sprawls more than Leicester, which is a compact city by comparison. Jamesinderbyshire (talk) 16:03, 27 December 2009 (UTC)
If there is confusion between Birmingham and the West Midlands, then an encyclopedia should clarify the issue by making it clear that urban areas and cities are not the same thing.--Michig (talk) 16:22, 27 December 2009 (UTC)
It does. Do you now accept that UAs do have a meaning? That's the point we're discussing, isn't it? Jamesinderbyshire (talk) 17:06, 27 December 2009 (UTC)
Urban Areas do have a meaning but they are in no way the same as cities, so an Urban Area population figure should never be used as the population figure for a city. Therefore relative sizes of Urban Areas are not a valid measure of which city has the largest population. That is the point we are discussing, unless I am mistaken.--Michig (talk) 17:14, 27 December 2009 (UTC)
Which official definition do you take then to mean "city"? Are you in fact taking local authority boundaries as the definition of "city"? Jamesinderbyshire (talk) 09:55, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
In Leicester's case, the unitary authority boundary and the official limits of the city are one and the same. We can only use official figures for the pupose that that they were compiled - if you think the article needs rewording, please propose an alternative to "In 2006, the population of the Leicester unitary authority was estimated at 289,700, the largest in the East Midlands, whilst 441,213 people lived in the wider Leicester Urban Area. Leicester is the 10th most populous settlement in the United Kingdom using the 2001 census definitions and the urban area is the fifteenth largest conurbation in the UK, the second largest city in the region behind the Nottingham Urban Area.", the current wording, which is entirely factual, apart from the last 'city' which should be removed as the figures are for Urban Areas.--Michig (talk) 10:01, 28 December 2009 (UTC) - I've removed that 'city' for clarity.--Michig (talk) 10:02, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
I'm not proposing a change to the article as it stands - I thought you were? I wrote the most recent change to the current UA section that you quote. However, your assumption that there are "official limits of the city" is where you are going wrong. There is no "official city" definition in the UK. You are thinking of local authority boundaries which are not "cities" and it is not encyclopedic to use the term "city" when you in fact mean "unitary authority" or some other unit of local government. In fact, it is deliberately confusing, because, as discussed, many people think of a "city" as a far more nebulous concept meaning (in fact) contiguous urban area. So that takes us back to the ONS's attempt to resolve this muddle with their excellent, referencable and verifiable Urban Areas dataset. Jamesinderbyshire (talk) 12:47, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
If you look at how the Nottingham Urban Area figure is calculated you will see that it includes several areas that by any other definition are not part of Nottingham, including the towns of Ilkeston, Eastwood, Heanor, Hucknall, Long Eaton, etc. - it makes no sense to treat a figure for the urban area as a figure for the city of Nottingham.--Michig (talk) 11:46, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
I have to say it looks to me as though you are trying to prove a POV view that Leicester is in some way bigger than Nottingham. Nottingham Urban Area is defined the way it is by the principal statistical authority in Britain, the ONS, as is Leicester. Are you saying that you are more knowledgeable than the ONS? Even if true, it would be irrelevant, as you are not a quotable source. But just on your argument, I think it's a hard sell that Long Eaton for example is not part of the Nottingham urban conurbation - try driving between the two - there are no gaps! Have a good day. Jamesinderbyshire (talk) 12:47, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
Leicester is only bigger than Nottingham using official population figures within the city boundaries - I'm not trying to prove any 'POV view', you're the one pushing the POV that Urban Area = city. Long Eaton is the most closely coupled of the above towns to Nottingham. I think you'd struggle to make a case for Ilkeston or Heanor being contiguous with Nottingham. The ONS definition of urban area is not the definition of a city, plain and simple, it is what it is, and you can look at the ONS website for the definition. If your happy with the article as it is, despite yout assertion above that it makes a 'false statement', your whole argument seems pointless, so let's not waste more time on it.--Michig (talk) 13:07, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
The thing i don't understand that even on wiki, nottingham has a larger population. Even using the "official" population figures for the city boundary nottingham has 306,700 which is more than leicester — Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.43.48.136 (talk) 14:03, 21 April 2012 (UTC)
Nottingham had a lower population until the 2010 estimates that were published last year. The article has now been updated to reflect this. --Michig (talk) 14:27, 21 April 2012 (UTC)

Large deletion from Mayor of Leicester and dump here

this raises WP:FORK and WP:POV issues]. If "Mayor of Leicester" cannot include information on Mayors from 1250 to 2011, then the article needs a rename to Mayor of Leicester after 2011. In ictu oculi (talk) 04:27, 24 December 2012 (UTC)

Music

This looks mainly like personal opinion and experience.Chemical Engineer (talk) 11:37, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

Leicester karate

I'd like to add details about leicester karate association to the sports page, I wrote up a brief article but it was deleted. I was asked to cite references for the European champions. Please see these articles from the Mercury:

http://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/Karate-England-ups-Leicester-Karate-Association/story-19452322-detail/story.html

http://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/Karate-Leicester-squad-shine-Euro-test/story-13894717-detail/story.html

and from the Wadokai England Site

http://fewkarate.com/docs/40FEW%20Champ%20Results.pdf

Please reinstate my article. Thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Blackbeltsuze (talk • contribs) 16:09, 24 January 2014 (UTC)

External link -Corah industrial history website.

Firstly greetings Noq. I will admit that having spent a lot of time documenting the tragic end of British United Shoe Machinery, I was thrilled to find Corah's had an interesting industrial history website. In fact I'd rather a lot more on Leicester's industrial history and a lot less on 1 hit wonder pop stars ..but I digress. I really couldn't see a problem with the link given it's educational & non-commercial content. I'm sure I'm missing something. Regards JRPG (talk) 22:09, 27 January 2014 (UTC)

Climate

The climate looks amazing! An average high of 26c in August. Is this correct? Donkfest1 (talk) 17:13, 31 March 2014 (UTC)

Pronunciation

Given that UK English is largely non-rhotic is the current pronunciation given correctly? It looks to be written in the way that Americans might pronounce Leicester, Massachusetts, i.e. with the "r" pronounced, which is not likely to be "correct" in the UK?--Jimbo Wales (talk) 02:06, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

I think you are probably right. To be honest I am not very good on the various pronunciation keys, so have left them alone, but I have fixed the link to the audio file so at least anyone unfamiliar can check. I think I am right in saying that Leicester Mass tends to have a strong -ur sound at the end, whereas in England it is a softer -a sound (easiest to spot in Leicester Square) and the r is not emphasised.--SabreBD (talk) 10:44, 5 September 2011 (UTC)
Ok, we both agree, and it seems no one else is here to disagree. Now, which of us is brave enough to try to figure out how to fix it?--Jimbo Wales (talk) 17:41, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
It looks like this is quite easy to fix. The last syllable rhymes with Worcester. The pronunciation of both the English and the American of that place have very similar endings. Minima© (talk) 17:51, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
That is correct. Surprised to find our esteemed Leader here at English backwater Les-ter having a bash at pronouncing it, should we be flattered or just marvel at your all-consuming obsession with accuracy? :) Jamesinderbyshire (talk) 18:23, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
Jimbo, the consensus between UK, US, and Aus editors when we set up the IPA key was that we would have a single transcription for all dialects. (As much as possible. We unfortunately didn't figure out a way to include Scottish.) Now, anyone who speaks a non-rhotic dialect will drop the ar automatically, so we hardly have to tell them to. However, if they speak "true" RP (as defined by the British Library), they do have an ar there, even though RP is non-rhotic. (See linking R.) Also, if we leave out the ar, a rhotic speaker won't know if they're supposed to pronounce it or not. There are a number of place names where an orthographic R is not pronounced even in rhotic accents.
Of course, we can always mark it as the local or UK pronunciation. Usually we don't bother. If UK, we might want to say "most of UK, but not RP".
We get complaints every once in a while about this (also from Americans who object to using British vowels), but no consensus to change. I've suggested using a superscript R, /lɛstəʳ/, as some dictionaries do, but have been voted down. — kwami (talk) 19:42, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
I'm curious what the symbols achieve that the audio clip doesn't. It looks very official, but then how many readers understand it? Nev1 (talk) 19:46, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
Not many, but it's an endless source of (to the rest of us) entirely obscure feudings between IPA-fans! Jamesinderbyshire (talk) 19:47, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
Wow, you're from the UK? I thought it was only Americans who were too insular to learn the IPA, just as we are with metric and evolution. Almost all of the complaints we get that the IPA is unintelligible come from Yanks.
A sound file is fine. You can use it to replace the IPA, or add it in: the IPA template supports the addition of a sound file.
As for the benefit, sometimes my browser (FF) won't play WP sound files. Also, it's nice to see the pronunciation while reading the article without the interruption of having to go to another screen to listen to it. — kwami (talk) 19:55, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
I haven't seen many complaints about the question of using IPA or not, only endless petty-dogfights over the vagaries of how to pronounce English County names and the like - these generally take the form of the British seeing off American interlopers. I'm sure it's terribly fascinating to those in the know. I hadn't even heard of it before I came to WP. And not only am I English but from the next County along! Jamesinderbyshire (talk) 19:59, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
That's why I suggested superscript ar, as some British dictionaries do. (I think Wells does.) People seem to get very upset when a pronunciation isn't specifically in their dialect, even though we need to be accessible to everyone. It would be different if people were pushing for local pronunciations, even if that didn't tell you and me how we should pronounce it in our dialects (which after all is what most people want to know), but often they don't want it in local English, they're adamant it be in their English. So an American sometimes gets upset that New York isn't in "American", even though the British-accessible transcription is closer to what New Yorkers actually say. Likewise Brits sometimes get upset that a British place like Oxford has an R in it, even though the local accent is rhotic. It's a lot like the fights over metric vs. Imperial. — kwami (talk) 20:08, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
And if you don't know IPA, how do you use a dictionary? I know American dictionaries all have their own funky transcriptions, but I thought in the UK it was all IPA. Certainly the OED. Even Canada's switched over. — kwami (talk) 20:12, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
Well, I guess I was exaggerating slightly in that I know it vaguely - however, I am arrogant enough to feel I already confidently know how to pronounce all of the words in the dictionary and therefore rarely if ever consult those funny little symbols after the Headword - aha - my mistake! As for the Local/Regional/National/RPs/Global/US/Other People's [insert your variant here] Englishes, the sheer mind-bogglingness of it leads me to the inexorably conclusion that it is better to pretend that bit in each WP article simply is not there. Jamesinderbyshire (talk) 20:30, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
The copy of the Chambers Dictionary I have uses the word spelt out followed by IPA pronunciation. Nev1 (talk) 20:15, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
If y'all have ideas on how to adjust the transcription to avoid the dog fights, I'd like to hear them. The problem with having different transcriptions for different dialects, besides the fact we're already pushing up against WP:NOTADICTIONARY, is the clutter: how many dialects would we have to transcribe before everyone feels they're adequately represented? — kwami (talk) 20:29, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
I have no idea why we don't follow the OED on this and simply use /(r)/ in this situation. It's completely standard and completely compatible with {{IPAc-en}}. — LlywelynII 14:10, 10 December 2014 (UTC)

Comment Whatever else is done, it might be useful to provide a link to Forvo for those interested in multiple audio examples. I don't know of anything similar, and I find it very useful to compare dialects. /ˈlɛstər/ is the IPA according to Dictionary .com but I would prefer multiple IPAs (with superscripts denoting source, such as OED), for words which vary greatly. One size does not fit all. 75.59.229.4 (talk) 16:09, 25 September 2011 (UTC)

Except that this word does not vary greatly. Everyone pronounces it the same, given their accent. — kwami (talk) 19:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
Which is the point. You don't know what you don't know. 75.59.229.4 (talk) 17:06, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
I'd like to +1 having superscript 'r'. Having the normal 'r' there doesn't reflect the pronunciation of the people who live there -- or the pronunciation of anyone who has heard it pronounced. :) - Francis Tyers · 11:56, 22 February 2012 (UTC)
Completely against the idea of outsourcing our treatment or bothering to make pronunciation guides a standard part of our external links section. What should be SOP is that we only include bare bones pronunciation guides for bizarre words (such as this one), nothing at all for others, and have a link in headword or the see also to wiktionary, where it's perfectly appropriate to include or link to any linguistic details you fancy. — LlywelynII 14:10, 10 December 2014 (UTC)

Soar

See Talk:River Soar. If we can find a source that explains the classical form and development of its name, we should explain it in a sentence or two here, at River Soar, and at Ratae. — LlywelynII 22:49, 12 December 2014 (UTC)

Annexing stuff

Have an interesting old map here. It shows the following entities

Of these, the Friths, Gilroes, New Found Pool are listed on visionofbritain.org.uk as "extra-parochial areas"

Morwen - Talk 22:56, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

Don't see an map here ... anyway, there is a problem with the main page as there was a third boundary change which took place after 1935. The statement on the main page that the current boundaries were created by the rearrangements in 1935 is incorrect!! (See first paragraph under the heading 20th Century.) I have been "googling" to try to get the date of the third and to date (2015) final change this evening so far without success. I think it may have been in the mid sixties, but don't quote me. The changes were not as dramatic as with the two previous boundary extensions, but most notably added Eyres Monsell to the south of the city. This area was not included with the changes in 1935. John2o2o2o (talk) 21:39, 23 May 2015 (UTC)

Okay, I've got it now. There were very minor adjustments to the boundary in 1936 and 1939, but a major adjustment to Leicester's boundary was made on 1st April 1966 under the "Leicester Order 1966". See http://www.visionofbritain.org.uk/unit/10042744 for full details. Essentially the then city gained a net additional 462 acres (if I can add up). In 1969 a very minor adjustment involving one acre was made to the city's boundary with Wigston and that is it to date. I will amend the main page to reflect the fact that the city boundary underwent it's last major changes in 1966 and not in 1935 as stated previously. John2o2o2o (talk) 22:06, 23 May 2015 (UTC)

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slightly unrelated, but worth a look

This article is about Harold Hurst a resident of this town. "Hurst, the son of a village builder, was a man of modest means and background. Born in 1880, his family hailed from Leicester, England, where his family had roots stretching back for some three centuries.

Determined and dedicated, he left school at age of fifteen and worked as a carpenter, and learned a bit of chemistry on the side. By the age of 20, he had - against all odds - earned a scholarship at prestigious Oxford, eventually winning honors in physics despite no mathematical training."

"From 1951 to 1956, Hurst, then in his seventies, published a series of papers describing his findings. These findings roiled the scientific community and invited both criticism and praise." [http://www.dailyreckoning.com/Writers/Mayer/Articles/DR031005.html] The last article under this link.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.135.26.221 (talk) 00:08, 20 March 2005‎ (UTC)

Following Berean Hunter's recent tidying ..and applying the spirit of WP:NORUSH, I think this is relevant to Harold Edwin Hurst. Unlike the UK article, the German article says he was born in Leicester as does this. I'll expand the English article & add to the Leicester page JRPG (talk) 08:39, 30 August 2015 (UTC)

Pronunciation

I see that there has been an edit war here, about whether the pronunciation of "Leicester" is /ˈlɛstər/ ⓘ or /ˈlɛstə/ ⓘ. The former has won, and is now sourced to Merriam Webster – which has a sound rendering, by a North American speaker, which does indeed include an audible "r". But that is not how English people pronounce it. English speakers do not use an "r" sound in the city's name, though Scots do. Maproom (talk) 08:49, 30 August 2015 (UTC)

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Not too long

Leicester is an English city , which is far more famous than its current size suggests. As long as the references are OK can't I see any point which doesn't belong in an encyclopedia. If it is longer than the articles of London, Paris or Rome - or New York for that matter - then (IF it's the case) it is the other articles which possibly are too short. I haven't read the article from start to end, but provided there is no OR included - or topics of no relevance, can I not see the point with the "possibly too long flag". I think this article well can serve as a paragon for similar articles about well-known old cities. Not only in the UK but world wide. If an article about a tiny unusual insect is longer than the article about the Blue Whale (the largest animal on Earth), then it may well be the Blue Whale article that's too short. Not necessaraly , but probably. This article also shows how alive our world-wide Wikipedia is. Only for extremely good reasons ought articles without errors be limited in length. And Leicester was known o me (in southern Scandinavia, Scania already before I was ten years old. We do not even know for certain when its first corner stone was laid, thousands years of history. That's worth a lot, I think. Boeing720 (talk) 10:04, 2 March 2016 (UTC)

The article stands at 6,519 words which is about right at the moment. It's a substantial article, but I wouldn't say too long. For context the tag was added by User:LibStar when the article was over 9,000 words long. Since then Libstar did some excellent work pruning excessive detail, POV, and highlighting where references are needed. I think the next stage in this article's development is sourcing what is currently there. Nev1 (talk) 17:36, 2 March 2016 (UTC)
thanks Nev. I think the tag can go now but the history section potentially be shortened. LibStar (talk) 21:42, 2 March 2016 (UTC)

Introduction feedback

Introduction could really do with expanding. Ideally should summarise all aspects of the article. I suggest including some notable facts, history and recent development, as well as broadening the current content. Sheffield's is a nice example. Rob984 (talk) 01:20, 26 July 2016 (UTC)

Incomprehensible

I removed the following text
(A s.a. 942), Ligera- (A s.a. 914, 921; B, C s.a. 942), Ligere- (D s.a. 914), Ligre- (C s.a. 914), and Ligran-ceastre (D s.a. 918).
from the article. It is utterly incomprehensible to the non-specialist. What is "s.a."? What is "A s.a. 942"? Was this supposed to be a reference? A reference which did not get enclosed in a <ref></ref> block?
Maybe I am dense but this was totally obscure to me. If you know what this means, please say so, in simple, plain, English. Post that to the article. Thanks, Nick Beeson (talk) 17:36, 18 June 2016 (UTC)

They refer to different versions of the Anglo-Saxon Chronicle. The numbers (914, 942 etc) are years. I agree it's far too specialist for a general historical introduction, though the information that the name of the town was variously recorded as 'Ligera-, Legra-, Ligere-, Ligre- and Ligran-ceastre' is probably of interest, and I don't think there's any harm in just referencing the Anglo-Saxon Chronicle. If people really want to go and research early names of Leicester they can get a copy and find the relevant bits with the index I suppose.
Markaeologist (talk) 19:06, 3 April 2017 (UTC)

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IP edits without a summary or source.

@146.198.112.199: Numerous edits from a US based I/P have been made to this page. Whilst no edit appear to be obvious vandalism I have absolutely no idea why they have been made or how they can be verified. Reluctantly, I will revert them and encourage him to reinstate them with a source and an edit reason.
JRPG (talk) 10:05, 28 June 2017 (UTC)

Just to clarify that this anonymous 'US user' is actually based in Leicester or the surrounding environs, their ISP is really BT PlusNet who obtained some IP ranges from the US Infonet ISP business a while back, however this transfer has not been updated on some of the WhoIs geolocation db's. The user appears to have a particular penchant for population demographic articles and data, such as Leicester Urban Area, List of settlements in Leicestershire by population (user added a huge regional demographic table of partial interest to the article there), and List of Welsh principal areas by population (hugely complicated table-see the history), along with less intensive changes on other mainly local (to Leics) articles.
I've had to warn, as well as correct and change several pages that the user has worked on, as you state they appear to be good faith edits but no references were ever really given and in some of the cases above has seriously over-complicated the data. The user appears to be relatively intelligent judging from the data tabulation, coding and writing style, but with a lack of understanding over how to edit (saves every micro change for example), and accounting for the data.
User has been warned by others @ User_talk:146.198.8.24, User talk:86.163.229.76, User talk:86.182.119.39, User talk:217.43.205.14 and interestingly at User talk:146.198.112.194 where the user actually responded, albeit somewhat cryptically, and User talk:146.198.112.199 where with your assistance, he was finally banned for a day.
The Leicester page still has a number of changes which were introduced by the user such as alphabetic referencing letters within the demographic detail of the infobox, and the particularly large map.
The Equalizer (talk) 13:25, 4 July 2017 (UTC)
Oh yes. Don't want the Wales page looking completely incomprehensible! Thanks. Deb (talk) 17:42, 4 July 2017 (UTC)
It appears the user has transmuted into 146.198.27.166 as there have been more mainly demographic and other Leics related edits - JRPG has added on their talk page a very eye-catching welcome section listing wiki standards, as well as a request again for summaries as there have been typically none. I was going to post a warning as looking back on a few Leics articles over at least a couple of years, there have been many similarly styled confusing updates to demography articles and sections, and I fear the user is ignoring best practices for the site. Still no refs either so there is some original research. We shall see... The Equalizer (talk) 01:56, 11 July 2017 (UTC)

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Semi-protected edit request on 27 August 2018

'Leicester' might be understood as a simplification of the Anglo-French/NormanFrench proposition "L'y-ha-la-centre-de-las-terres". 2A02:C7F:4077:E400:E103:63AC:743E:D539 (talk) 03:42, 27 August 2018 (UTC)

 Not done - unsourced (unsurprisingly) - Arjayay (talk) 14:40, 27 August 2018 (UTC)
Good, the suggestion is nonsensical. Markaeologist (talk) 10:10, 19 November 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 22 April 2018

The distance to London is 89.1 miles, not 102 miles, as verified by this source.[1]2.24.174.19 (talk) 15:57, 22 April 2018 (UTC) 2.24.174.19 (talk) 15:57, 22 April 2018 (UTC)

Of all of Wikipedia's articles on English cities, not one other lists the distance to London. That's probably because it isn't clear to readers whether "distance to London" signifies the straight-line distance or the driving distance. There's no simple fix to the ambiguity, so I just went and deleted the parameter. Altamel (talk) 20:09, 22 April 2018 (UTC)
That isn't what the source shows, I've just checked: it says "163.44 km, 101.55 mi, 88.25 nmi" - that is, about 88 nautical miles, but about 102 (statute) miles. Markaeologist (talk) 10:21, 19 November 2018 (UTC)

Industrial Era. The note "citation needed" concerning the arrival of the railway in 1832 has I think be dealt with by note 37 following. Can this Citation needed be removed?" Spinney Hill (talk) 11:28, 28 May 2018 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ https://distancecalculator.globefeed.com/UK_Distance_Result.asp?fromplace=Leicester%2C%20UK&toplace=London%2C%20UK&dt1=ChIJc2y3SatCd0gRuJy0byodFZo&dt2=ChIJdd4hrwug2EcRmSrV3Vo6llI

Should Brantano still be listed

As I understand it, Brantano went into receivership in 2017. Unless there is still some head office activity, eg managing the european subsidiaries, I think the reference to Brantano should be deleted.FreeFlow99 (talk) 09:19, 2 August 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 6 November 2019

Add Galaxy Radio to Leicester local media https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leicester#Local_media The radio station is mentioned at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Leicester#Galaxy_Radio P2523870 (talk) 12:13, 6 November 2019 (UTC)

 Done Fish+Karate 10:39, 18 November 2019 (UTC)
== Semi-protected edit request on 12 November 2019 ==

Leicester Advertiser

Leicester Advertiser is a regional newspaper in the counties of Leicester, Coventry, Warwickshire, and Hinckley and Nuneaton, that offers cheaper advertising than the typical mainstream tabloids for local businesses, it also offers a free online advertising service accompanying the paper adverts in the situation that their social media outputs are not effective and an additional form of advertising from the tangible paper.

The Leicester Advertiser also provides a free design and redesign service for ads that are put into their paper.

The company is situated in Coventry. PO Box 4999, Coventry, CV6 5SF Under the company company 'ADVERTISER PUBLISHING LIMITED'[1] with director SCOTT, Matthew Malcolm. [2]

Early History

Established since 2008 [3], the Leicester Advertiser are a family owned, independent publisher who published a tabloid sized, full colour, monthly publication that can be picked up by the general public. Small, local businesses are able to advertise their business repeatedly at affordable prices.

Editions

There are four editions to The Advertiser, one for each county that it is released to; Coventry Advertiser, Leicester Advertiser, Warwickshire Advertiser, Hinckley and Nuneaton Advertiser.

Distribution

The Advertiser can be picked up in selected supermarkets like : ASDA, Tesco, Morrison's, and Sainsbury's.

The paper is also distributed in most petrol stations, fish and chip shops, cafes, and other outlets in the local areas.

References

  1. ^ https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/06684680
  2. ^ https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/officers/QNjtNso7BGOfF4P7m7QQCnoFW0I/appointments
  3. ^ https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/06684680/filing-history?page=2

[1] [2] [3] [4] P2406994 (talk) 12:35, 12 November 2019 (UTC)

 Not done No article, which suggests newspaper is not notable enough for inclusion. The four references provided are two which provide confirmation a thing exists, and two self-published references. This is not reliable third-party sources demonstrating notability/suitability for inclusion. Fish+Karate 10:44, 18 November 2019 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ https://www.LeicesterAdvertiser.net
  2. ^ https://www.leicesteradvertiser.net/files/media_pack.pdf
  3. ^ https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/06684680
  4. ^ https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/officers/QNjtNso7BGOfF4P7m7QQCnoFW0I/appointments

Semi-protected edit request on 13 November 2019

Please add the radio station, Eava FM to the Local Media section. 146.227.239.14 (talk) 11:10, 13 November 2019 (UTC)

 Not done Please provide a reference. Fish+Karate 10:44, 18 November 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 13 November 2019

Please add the radio station EAVA FM to the Local Media section. http://eavafm.com/ P2528684 (talk) 11:13, 13 November 2019 (UTC)

 Not done Please provide a reference. Fish+Karate 10:44, 18 November 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 13 November 2019

Please add "Leicester Media Online is a news media company based in Leicester[1]" to the category "Local media". P2514634 (talk) 11:18, 13 November 2019 (UTC)

 Not done Please provide a reference other than the company's own. Fish+Karate 10:44, 18 November 2019 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ www.leicestermedia.online

Semi-protected edit request on 13 November 2019

Please add the news agency Pukaar News to the "Local Media" category. This is the link to their website: https://www.pukaarnews.com/ Ellenk00 (talk) 11:21, 13 November 2019 (UTC)

 Not done Please provide a reference other than the company's own. Fish+Karate 10:44, 18 November 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 27 November 2019

Please add the radio station EAVA FM to the local media list. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Leicestershire_College - under Belgrave campus section http://www.eavafm.com/ P2528684 (talk) 12:19, 27 November 2019 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. as above. - ChrisWar666 (talk) 16:37, 27 November 2019 (UTC)

Local Media.

It is said that "the local university" has a radio station. Which of the two local universities please? Can anyone tell us?Spinney Hill (talk) 09:12, 16 March 2020 (UTC)

"Honoured Citizens of Leicester"

What's this all about? And none of the sources work anyway. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:14, 10 March 2020 (UTC)

Two of the links do work. These appear to have been non-notable people who have done notable things. They have been "received" by the Lord Mayor-the honour appears to be short of honourary freedom of the city.Spinney Hill (talk) 09:18, 16 March 2020 (UTC)

sources about religion in Leicester

There's AFD still ongoing towards deletion of Religious denominations in Leicester, which was formerly named Places of worship in Leicester, although it did not list any places. It was instead a partial list of religions of the world, with assertions those ones were ever practiced in Leicester, though it was not a complete list of even that. Some editors suggest that the current "Religion" section of this article might be expanded.

The following publications were purported to be sources there, and/or were purported to be relevant; maybe some of them might be useful here in the future:

  • Betteridge, Rev. A. A., A Brief History of Free Churches in Leicestershire and Rutland (Unpublished paper), Public Record Office, Leicester
  • Places of Worship in the City of Leicester, Leicester Council of Faiths, 2004
  • Richard Alexander McKinley (1958). A History of the County of Leicester: the city of Leicester. Oxford University Press. Retrieved 28 July 2013.
  • Earthly Kingdoms: A Report on Leicester Churches Both Past and Present. Victorian Society, Leicester Group. 1987.
  • Moore, Andre (2008). Where Leicester Has Worshipped. ISBN 978-0-9533628-2-0. Retrieved 2013-07-26.
  • Church of England building review 2015, and
  • Interactive Map of Places of Worship in Leicester (is a catalogue/directory which was an external link there.

Also there were some inline citations to what appear to be lesser works, which i am not copying over. Some might think recycling the title "Places of worship in Leicester" for a new list really on that title might be useful in the future; I am not sure. If the "Religion" section here grew really large, then maybe. But there exist Leicester or Leicestershire sections in several "List of DENOMINATION churches in the United Kingdom" already, could be linked instead. Hope this helps. --Doncram (talk) 05:59, 22 April 2020 (UTC)

Demography

Currently the demography session is way too much concentrated on "how many people" lives in and comparing with Nottingham and other cities.

However the striking charactistic of Leicester demography is it's peculiar diversity, why higher than anywhere else.

This should go first, and even in the short summary of the article description. Lobianco (talk) 14:17, 28 June 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 13 March 2021 -> fix a typo in "Demontfort University" (it should be "De Montfort University")

In the section "Local Media", please fix the typo in "De Montfort University" (this university was never called "Demontfort University").

Many thanks. 82.16.3.229 (talk) 19:31, 13 March 2021 (UTC)

 Done Thanks for catching the typo. RudolfRed (talk) 20:26, 13 March 2021 (UTC)

New Lord Mayor

The new Lord Mayor is Deepak Bajaj https://www.leicester.gov.uk/your-council/about-us/the-lord-mayor/ I’m just a very occasional user, who’s not bothered to register, so can’t make the change with the article being semi-protected. Can someone more dedicated make the change? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.0.250.199 (talk) 22:28, 27 May 2021 (UTC)

Messianic 'Synagogue' has closed and reference needs to be removed

In the section 'Religion' can someone edit the reference to Leicester having three synagogues, one Orthodox, one Progressive and one Messianic? The Messianic closed two years ago. I should know as I closed it!

The amended text should read: The city is home to places of worship or gathering for all the faith groups mentioned and many of their respective sub-denominations. In the case of Judaism, for example, with only 0.1% declaring it as their faith, the city hosts two active synagogues: one Liberal and one Orthodox.


Rabbiscott (talk) 14:09, 25 June 2021 (UTC)

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