Talk:Leonard's Bakery

Continental US vs mainland US
This isn't really a big deal, but a change suggested by the GAR was to change from the wording "continental United States" to "mainland United States". This seems stilted to me. As a native English speaker, I don't think I have ever heard this phrase. Maybe the phrase is common in Hawaii, but this Wikipedia is not written in Hawaiian English and should reflect the more widely used phrasing ( data: 6,990,000 vs 158,000 ghits ). Seems to me in fact they'd be likely to use another phrase in Hawaii anyway. In my experience Hawaiians colloquially say "off-island" like Alaskans say "in the States". — Brianhe (talk) 18:22, 12 May 2015 (UTC)
 * I strongly disagree. There's nothing "stilted" about it.  I've been in Hawaii for only 14 years, and they certainly don't say "off-island" as much as they do Mainland.  Please read that article to see why there's a problem with using "continental".  Accordingly, "The word "mainland" occurs numerous times in Hawaiian law, and apparently refers to any part of the United States outside of Hawaii."  This is an article about a bakery in Hawaii, not a bakery in New York.  When Hawaii establishments (and our best food sources about Hawaii food) refer to the rest of the country, they use the term "mainland" and our article should reflect that.  You are assuming that the term "continental" is the only correct and appropriate term, and that assumption is manifestly false. Viriditas (talk) 21:59, 12 May 2015 (UTC)
 * I don't think it's a big deal either way, but it's easy enough to change a word to make someone happy. I'll add, though, that WP is not a reliable source in itself. The two WP articles used to show how Hawaiians use the phrase are unreferenced in their illuminative parts, which should be deleted from their articles as original research unless supported by a reliable, secondary source. czar ⨹   14:20, 13 May 2015 (UTC)
 * That's not original research nor is it how the term is used. I suggest you take a look-see at Google Books, Google Scholar and any scholarly search index of your liking. The term "mainland" United States is the predominant term.  Original research refers to something that can't be sourced. Viriditas (talk) 18:17, 13 May 2015 (UTC)
 * I'm referring to Those articles do not have references in the parts that you mention (otherwise they'll be deleted as original research). I am not interested in disputing the continental vs. mainland issue, just pointing out the parts that need referencing, if you're able and willing. –  czar   19:04, 13 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Again, just because something is not explicitly cited does not mean it is original research. Which of these facts are you challenging?


 * 1. Hawaii became the 50th state of the United States on August 21, 1959.
 * 2. It is the southernmost and so far, the latest state to join the Union.
 * 3. Not part of any continent, Hawaii is located in the Pacific Ocean, about 2,200 miles (3,500 km) from North America and almost halfway to Asia.
 * 4. In Hawaii and overseas American territories, for instance, the terms the Mainland or U.S. Mainland are often used to refer to the continental United States.
 * 5. The word "mainland" occurs numerous times in Hawaiian law, and apparently refers to any part of the United States outside of Hawaii.


 * I suspect that you aren't seriously challenging any of them. Viriditas (talk) 04:59, 14 May 2015 (UTC)

I've added some refs, however, while the ref I added supports my contention, it also says the following: "Although the term 'mainland' is still widely used in Hawai'i to refer to the continental United States, many Hawaiian activists and scholars prefer the term 'continent' because the 'mainland' implies a position of privilege (or at least 'continent centeredness') and hence domination. As one writer stated, 'For me, Hawai'i is the 'main land'!' However, in this article, I use 'mainland' (rather than 'continent') because outside of Hawai'i, readers sometimes misinterpret 'the continent' as meaning Europe'.'" I don't agree with this author, but it is at least one good reason to change it back to "continental United States", which I am doing now. Viriditas (talk) 06:16, 14 May 2015 (UTC)

DYK nomination

 * Did you know nominations/Leonard's Bakery czar ⨹   14:20, 13 May 2015 (UTC)