Talk:Lieder eines fahrenden Gesellen

Title
I've moved Spiegl's comments on the translation of the title to the end of the article--they seemed a bit unweildy right at the start, and it's probably too fine a point to bother the reader with so early on. I've also removed the comment, apparently included to support the idea that Songs of a Travelling Journeyman is a better translation than the usual Songs of a Wayfarer, that "The subject-matter of the songs has little to do with travelling": this is true, of course, but the songs also have little to do with being a journeyman, so it seems a bit irrelevant (if the title must reflect the content of the songs, then Songs of a Lovesick Whiner may be best). By the way, if we could source Spiegl's comments exactly, that would be good (were they made in one of his books? an article? a broadcast?). --Camembert


 * Other sources besides Spiegl have the same comment about Geselle. Mitchell (Gustav Mahler:The Wunderhorn Years, p 120) takes the translation for granted in his Mahler in translating several contemporaneous Mahler letters also (from a Google book search...) Expect other examples easy to find?... Schissel | Sound the Note! 16:08, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Adding "Travelling" to "Journeyman" seems like overkill to me. Wouldn't "journeyman-man" be even more literal? ;-) Sparafucil (talk) 22:49, 8 July 2014 (UTC)

Verb tenses
I just listened to this on PBS. In this text (fourth song) Mein Gesell' war Lieb und Leide! Auf der Straße stand ein Lindenbaum, I believe that "war" is past tense, and the PBS translation had it so. I think I heard the soloist sing "steht" instead of "stand", which I believe should be present tense. Yes, see http://www.lieder.net/lieder/get_text.html?TextId=10696 I guess that gives me the right to change that one word... Disclaimer: My German knowledge is elementary and from a long time ago, so I hesitate to change the translation.50.47.203.172 (talk) 06:01, 7 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I've sung both ways; it's one of the discrepancies between the piano and the orchestra versions. E. Ezust's site gives the original "steht" as in the piano version; the [1897 publication] changed it to "stand". Sparafucil (talk) 22:00, 8 July 2014 (UTC)

Author?
I looked this atricle up to find out who wrote the words. I think it says that Mahler himself wrote them but, if so, I think this should be spelled out. Bukovets (talk) 13:31, 8 July 2014 (UTC)
 * It's pretty well spelled out but could be in the lead, I agree. Sparafucil (talk) 22:49, 8 July 2014 (UTC)

First song cycle?
"Lieder eines fahrenden Gesellen ('Songs of a Wayfarer') is Gustav Mahler's first song cycle. While he had previously written other lieder, they were grouped by source of text or time of composition as opposed to common theme." This begs the question of whether Das klagende Lied (Mahler) is a cycle. just on the basis of WP:lead I removed it until a secondarily-sourced discussion in the body of the article can be added.

As much a questions as a comment
I've always thought "Songs of a Wayfarer" had a melancholy feel to it (and thus reflects the music), perhaps because I grew up familiar with the folk song "I Am a Poor Wayfaring Stranger." There is something lonely and isolated about the lone traveler on foot -- a very Germanic romantic notion. Journeyman brings more to mind an apprentice, workman, a craftsman. I rather like to think of the songs as the companion of this traveling fellow, that is all he has as company, solace, expression on his solitary sojourn. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:252:D7B:5E20:66B9:E8FF:FED4:B608 (talk) 17:18, 17 June 2016 (UTC)