Talk:Lionel Messi/Archive 13

Semi-protected edit request on 5 October 2017
In section popular culture there is a photograph labeled Leo Messi portrayed on mural in Milan. This mural depicts Zlatan Ibrahimović not Messi. Jan.twarog (talk) 06:27, 5 October 2017 (UTC)
 * It's Messi. You've inadvertently insulted the artist. Just on the subject of Zlatan there is actually one of him further up. CABrett (talk) 06:41, 5 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Yes check.svg Done Sparkling Pessimist   Scream at me!  06:42, 5 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Edit-undo.svg Undone: Per CABrett  Sparkling Pessimist   Scream at me!  06:47, 5 October 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 8 October 2017
Lionel Messi's Nephew Is Named Kadin Allen Williams and Is Currently Living In New Zealand Kadin9875432345678 (talk) 00:52, 8 October 2017 (UTC)


 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Further, please show that the alleged nephew is notable enough to be mentioned. —C.Fred (talk) 00:56, 8 October 2017 (UTC)

YOU ARE FUNNY.How can u just say anybody is messi's nephew.If u can view that kadin is messi's nephew,pls can u explain how kadin is messi's nephew Silver baby (talk) 14:05, 26 October 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 7 November 2017
change "Towards the end of the season, Barcelona played four Clásicos in the span of 18 days. A league match on 16 April ended in a draw after a penalty from Messi."

to

"Towards the end of the season, Barcelona played four Clásicos in the span of 18 days. A league match on 16 April ended in a draw after a penalty from Messi.during that game ,Messi sent the ball into the real madrid fans due to his frustration " Reddevils92 (talk) 14:27, 7 November 2017 (UTC)
 * ❌ - as it is unsourced and rather trivial - Arjayay (talk) 15:01, 7 November 2017 (UTC)

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Semi-protected edit request on 1 December 2017
Please change the part where it mentions Messi's appearances and goals for Barcelona. These numbers are so outdated. Change his appearances from 395 to 600. Also, change his goals from 361 to 523. The source for this information is Barcelona's official website. The website link is https://www.fcbarcelona.com/football/first-team/news/2017-2018/leo-messi-600-appearances-games-barca-playbuzz-statistics Joel211999 (talk) 18:48, 1 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Question for you. Right underneath that, below the collapsed "Honours section," it says "Senior club appearances and goals counted for the domestic league only and correct as of 27 November 2017." Do the numbers 395 and 361 comply with that?  City O f  Silver  19:06, 1 December 2017 (UTC)
 * ❌ as explained above, we do NOT list total appearances in all competitions in the infobox, only appearances and goals for the domestic league = Arjayay (talk) 18:14, 2 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Obnoxious question: was my guess right? Did the requester here apparently miss the "Senior club appearances and goals counted for the domestic league only" stuff? I feel like I've seen these sorts of requests and changes before and if I know what the issue is, I can respond a bit more definitively in the future.  City O f  Silver  18:19, 2 December 2017 (UTC)
 * User:CityOfSilver - that is not an "Obnoxious question", your answer was absolutely correct, but having read the link provided - which clearly includes all appearances - and waited (almost) 24 hours without any response, I thought it could be marked as answered, to remove it from the pending list - The poster can always re-activate the request if they wish to reply. - Arjayay (talk) 18:27, 2 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Awesome, thank you.  City O f  Silver  18:29, 2 December 2017 (UTC)

Trofeo Alfredo Di Stéfano
This award that wins the Best La Liga Player of the Season isn't on the page. Messi has 5 of it (2009, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2015 and 2017).

[https://twitter.com/LaLiga/status/942769572129763328 ¡Doblete de Leo Messi en los #PremiosMARCA2017! on Twitter]

-🇦🇷 ARG Jococapito00 (talk) 15:24, 18 December 2017 (UTC)

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Lead section
We have articles on Lionel Messi, Diego Maradona, Pelé, and probably other footballers all stating some variation of them being widely considered the greatest in history or of all time. At Talk:Cristiano Ronaldo, it was proposed to use the same language after Ronaldo's recent Ballon d'Or and subsequent hype. The very fact that we have at least three articles making the same claim, not to mention the perpetual "greatest of all time" debates that occur in every sport, suggests that all these articles should say: "widely considered to be one of the greatest ever" or equivalent to comply with WP:NPOV. It is obviously a fiercely debated topic and stating any one player as "the greatest" is non-encyclopedic. I have accordingly made this change but I am obviously open to establishing a consensus for the preferred language. Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 19:16, 30 December 2017 (UTC)


 * I don’t know why Ronaldo’s and Messi’s pages should mirror one another. There are several articles that mention how Messi is considered the greatest ever. SonqreQ (talk) 14:41, 31 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Are you saying there aren't similar articles that say Ronaldo is the best ever? – PeeJay 14:59, 31 December 2017 (UTC)

There are similar articles saying the same about ronaldo as well. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.111.233.230 (talk) 15:13, 31 December 2017 (UTC)

Of course there are articles that state Ronaldo is the best, but there aren’t enough to warrant him being “widely regarded” as the best ever. Whereas, Messi has an abundance of articles and quotes to support this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by SonqreQ (talk • contribs) 16:35, 31 December 2017 (UTC)

That's not something u can really measure, and ronaldo is also "widely regarded", and also Di stefano, Garrincha, Zidane, Beckenbauer, Maldini, Ronaldo da lima and so.. "The best" is always going to be an opinion. U can edit and say "widely regarded as the greatest of all time, but that fits to about 10 players. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.111.233.230 (talk) 18:15, 31 December 2017 (UTC)

84.111.233.23 I doubt speaking to you will be any different than speaking to a brick wall. — Preceding unsigned comment added by SonqreQ (talk • contribs) 19:33, 31 December 2017 (UTC)

I don't know why did u assume that, but your comment makes the doubt you're talking about mutual. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.111.233.230 (talk) 21:59, 31 December 2017 (UTC)

Pele, Maradona and Messi are widely regarded as the greatest, Ronaldo is not and only has a few articles to defend such a claim. Maradona, Pele and Messi have an abundance of articles to cite. This is so obvious that it is comical that it even needs pointing out. O&#39;Flannery (talk) 23:57, 31 December 2017 (UTC)

This is much more than just a number of articles, and articles are basically another personal opinions, cause in terms of statistics and acheivements players like Zidane and C.ronaldo are clearly among the best players of all time. I can see that u don't agree, and i respect your opinion, but there isn't really a thing like one single "best of all time". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.111.233.230 (talk) 00:36, 1 January 2018 (UTC)

I agree that there are many that are considered to be among the best players of all time, Cruyff, Garrincha, Di Stefano etc. The point is that there are only three players that are routinely described as the greatest of all time, Maradona, Pele and Messi. It seems obvious that these three players should be described differently to the others as they are widely considered to be above the rest. O&#39;Flannery (talk) 01:40, 1 January 2018 (UTC)

Sorry, i don't agree with u. I heard countless people before saying other names than the 3 u mention as an answer to the question "best of all time". I think you're too much influenced by what media tell u, there are more than 3 players for that matter as a fact, and u can't just ignore opinions of millions of people around the world, just because it doesn't adjust perfectly to what some articles, or the media taught you.(those articles are basically just another personal agendas of people). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.111.233.230 (talk) 11:40, 1 January 2018 (UTC)

You 'heard' countless people saying other names? Well that is different, I am talking about footballers, ex footballers, managers and football writers consistently naming those three players as the greatest. Of course there will always be debate, but I am finding it difficult to see how you are unaware of this general consensus. For a long, long time Pele and Maradona were held up as the two greatest, with Messi now joining them. O&#39;Flannery (talk) 13:04, 1 January 2018 (UTC)

U can't just ignore so many people's opinions, and footballers/ ex footballers/ managers/ football writers's opinions doesn't matter more than other people, just as much as not every footballer becomes a good manager. U can't decide which one knows better, and which one doesn't, so your point doesn't change the fact that "best of all time" is an unmeasurable title. And u also forget one thing - footballer's personality (or at least the way their peronality is portrayed to the masses), is a huge factor in this discussion. some players are so arrogant, that other footballers just wouldn't give them the courtesy of saying great things about them, just on the account of their controversial personality - so it's not really a way to measure.

I am assuming that the above comment is by the user with no name 84.111.233.230. If you consider everyone's opinion to be equally valid then there really is no hope. According to your logic, someone who perhaps has watched three football matches in their entire life is equally qualified to make accurate claims about the greatest ever players, as someone who has played professionally for many years, or who has written about football for decades. Please see how foolish such an attitue is. O&#39;Flannery (talk) 13:47, 1 January 2018 (UTC)

It seems that u don't want to accept the fact that "the best" is not something that can be measured, and there are a lot of people who saw football for decades and still doesn't think the best of all time is one of the 3 u mentioned. in any case it would always be an opinion, even if u don't agree, and the whole discussion is about keeping the entries encyclopedic, and not uneven. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.111.233.230 (talk) 13:59, 1 January 2018 (UTC)
 * There's nothing un-encyclopedic about saying that many in the sport consider [x] to be the greatest of all time on multiple pages. We're not saying that all of them are the greatest or even that all of them are considered the greatest by most, just by many. And they are all considered by many people (whose opinions on this matter) to be the greatest of all time. That's factual, logical, encyclopedic, and very, very relevant to their respective articles.
 * Just as an idea, would it make sense to create an article on this topic? Something like Greatest football player of all time where we can discuss all of them, which "greatest" accolades they've received, which people think which person is the greatest, etc.? -- irn (talk) 14:42, 1 January 2018 (UTC)
 * I agree, irn, I fail to see the problem with saying 'many in the sport consider [x] to be the greatest if all time' on multiple pages. I am not sure if 84.111.233.230 is fully understanding what the complaint is.O&#39;Flannery (talk) 22:59, 1 January 2018 (UTC)
 * @84.111.233.230, the more sources that agree, the stronger the case can be made for certain claims. Do you understand this? O&#39;Flannery (talk) 18:06, 1 January 2018 (UTC)

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Messi ONE of the greatest of all time?!?!?!
Before it said on his Wikipedia page that he was "regarded by many as THE greatest of all time". I don't see why this has been changed to one of the greatest of all time. There is wide agreement that Messi is the best of all time, even though this is based on subjective opinions. However there is SO many famous people (experts, former players, legends of the game) who thinks that Messi is THE greatest such as Henry, Lampard, Gerrard, Pirlo, Gattuso, Wenger, David Silva, Luis Enrique, Pele, Rooney, Guardiola, De Boer, van Persie, Roberto Rivelino, David Luiz, Zlatan, Klopp, Mourinho, Aguero, Ronaldo Nazario, Boateng, Gary Lineaker, Ronaldinho, Joe Hart, Ian Wright, Manuel Pellegrini, Diego Simeone, Nasri, Seedorf, Zabaleta, Laudrup, Milner, Cruyff, Cassano, Robben, Xavi and Chiellini. Of course there is MANY more who thinks that Messi is the greatest. There is also a wide agreement between football experts that Messi should be remembered as the greatest of all time. This was recently said at the ESPN studios: "Now why is it that coaches and ex players when asked about Messi vs Ronaldo will always shake their head and say: Is this even a discussion? Becuase Messi is at a different level as a footballer". There is so many more people who thinks that Messi is the greatest, especially in comparison to Ronaldo. Messi wins every fan vote between the two, often with votes of between 60-70 %. People who thinks Ronaldo is the greatest is basically only Real Madrid and Manchester United fans and coaches and players that Ronaldo has played with/plays with. However, many of these STILL thinks Messi is the greatest for instance Mourinho, Gago, Berbatov, Rooney and James Rodriguez. Therefore I think it is very unfair that Messi will be put in the same category as for example Ronaldo as only one of the greatest of all time. There is so many more who thinks that he is THE greatest and I therefore think his page should be rewritten to what it said before: "and regarded by many as the greatest of all time".

Sincerely, Erik — Preceding unsigned comment added by Erik0609 (talk • contribs) 00:02, 3 January 2018 (UTC)

Messi is not the only who is regarded as the greatest, he is one of several players who are considered by many as the greatest, so if the wording is changed, it should be changed for the others as well. U say there's a wide acceptance, but it's a matter of opinion, and there are a lot of people who don't accept with your opinion, not less than those who do accept, so it doesn't say much. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.111.233.230 (talk) 09:12, 3 January 2018 (UTC)

Numerous, numerous citations suggesting he is. Same for Maradona. Swig8998 (talk) 21:03, 9 January 2018 (UTC)

Summary (goals) on the top of the page
Why are only domestic league goals accounted in the summary? Shouldn't be the 500+ he did for barcelona? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.77.111.111 (talk) 23:56, 11 January 2018 (UTC)
 * I don't know why, but that's how it is for all footballers, per the WikiProject Football style guideline. -- irn (talk) 00:34, 12 January 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 21 January 2018
Barcelona150 (talk) 18:50, 21 January 2018 (UTC) Lionel Messi was born and raised in Rosario,Argentina until 13 when he moved to Barcelona ❌ That information is already in the article. Black Kite (talk) 18:51, 21 January 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 25 January 2018
Under individual records it states that Messi currently has the record for most La Liga assists with 146, however Transfermarkt currently has it listed with 170 Dpriest442 (talk) 23:15, 25 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Sir Joseph (talk) 17:08, 29 January 2018 (UTC)

Adding a new language
Hello,

I was wondering about adding a Telugu language version of this page. I am relatively new at contributing to Wikipedia, so it would be appreciated if someone can tell me how to add a new language to a semi-protected page.

Thanks — Preceding unsigned comment added by Anumulaj (talk • contribs) 21:01, 7 February 2018 (UTC)
 * You wouldn't be adding a new language to a protected page. Rather, you would be creating a new page in the Telugu Wikipedia. Every language of Wikipedia is its own community with its own set of norms (although they all have many aspects in common, like the five pillars), so I can't speak too much to the Telugu Wikipedia. But you should be able to go to te:Lionel Messi and start the article yourself, if that's what you're looking to do. Cheers, -- irn (talk) 21:55, 7 February 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 13 February 2018
Change the international team years from "2005-" to "2005-2016" and "2016-" as Messi did retire from international football for a bit. ref=www.bbc.com/sport/football/36637591 Harrisonnigkui (talk) 00:32, 13 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: The events are well-covered in the body text. Not every status change can be accommodated in infoboxes and having an end date and restart date in the same year would present less useful information to the reader, not more.  Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 05:08, 13 February 2018 (UTC)