Talk:List of Fullmetal Alchemist characters

Proposed merges
Making a place to discuss all of the proposed merge discussions. To keep things neat, there is one section for each proposal. -- AnmaFinotera  (talk · contribs) 18:23, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Homunculi of the Fullmetal Alchemist manga

 * Support, as with the anime there are only seven. The main thing with both lists of Homunculi is a need to clean up, source, and combine so that the manga descriptions are given more emphasis, with only major anime differences mentioned. This is more in keeping with our MoS. -- AnmaFinotera  (talk · contribs) 18:39, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Support, per previous comments.Tintor2 (talk) 19:14, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Support - with all of them the same save Pride, Sloth, and Wrath in the anime and manga, it's not that difficult a merge. Sephiroth BCR  ( Converse ) 05:34, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Homunculi of the Fullmetal Alchemist anime

 * Support, there are only seven. With some clean up to make the descriptions briefer, these should be easily mergable here. -- AnmaFinotera  (talk · contribs) 18:39, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Support, per previous comments.Tintor2 (talk) 19:14, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Support - see above. Sephiroth BCR  ( Converse ) 05:34, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

State Military characters of the Fullmetal Alchemist manga

 * Note: first item copied from Talk:State Military characters of the Fullmetal Alchemist manga to keep discussions together -- AnmaFinotera  (talk · contribs) 18:23, 9 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Oppose The list article proposed to hold the characters is already at 58 kbs, and this page like its anime counterpart is stable. They may need some trimming, but I don;t think they need merging. TomStar81 (Talk) 18:14, 9 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Actually, they first need trimming, then merging. However, all of the merge discussions should take place at Talk:List of Fullmetal Alchemist characters, so I've copied this over there. -- AnmaFinotera  (talk · contribs) 18:23, 9 June 2008 (UTC)


 * The merge has already been performed; everything worthy of transference was added to this article (List of Fullmetal Alchemist characters) when it was created. Redirecting the other seven lists to retain their history is all that's left to do. ~SnapperTo 18:43, 9 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Support, per previous comments.Tintor2 (talk) 19:14, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Support - seems to have already been performed though. Nice fait accompli. Sephiroth BCR  ( Converse ) 05:34, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Oppose. It certainly needs a trim, but anyone can do that. The military is important enough to the storyline that it needs one of these, it'd be like merging List of Hollows in Bleach with the main Bleach list. I can trim it myself if you guys want, but it should stay. Belgium EO (talk) 08:01, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Which actually is being discussed. Importance to the storyline is irrelevant beyond the characters that we're including, and a large amount of these characters simply need to be cut. As it stands, it's a clearly fails WP:NOT and WP:NOTE, and a merge into the main page while taking solely the essential characters is necessary. Sephiroth BCR  ( Converse ) 08:54, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Okay, Hollows was a bad comparison. Soul Reapers would be better, and indeed the consensus to merge that one was dropped immediately (by yourself, if I'm not mistaken) due to the fact that merging the Soul Reaper list would make the main list extremely long. The military members serve approximately the same role, and even if we stuck to "bare bones essential movers of the plot", that still means Mustang, all his subordinates, both Armstrongs, Ross and Brosh, Grumman, Yoki, Miles, Buccaneer, Kimblee, and possibly Raven, Grand and the four Chimeras. It would look very unsightly. Belgium EO (talk) 03:12, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
 * On second thought, after seeing how neat this page is now... vote changed. Support all. Belgium EO (talk) 05:40, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Very well, but... If you`re thiking placing graphics is wrong, I won`t be opposed, despiting my inner preferences. And, why have you done a comparation with List of Hollows in Bleach?MagnusLordN (talk) 20:18, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

State Military characters of the Fullmetal Alchemist anime

 * Support, it seems be have large fancruft and repeated characters from other lists.Tintor2 (talk) 19:13, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Support - per above. Sephiroth BCR  ( Converse ) 05:34, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I'd actually support this one. It's pretty much a straight copy of the other one plus Archer and Thunderbolt, who could easily be relocated to the main list with much more finesse than merging the larger manga list would take. Belgium EO (talk) 03:16, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Oppose for reasons stated in my other oppose vote/comment. TomStar81 (Talk) 01:06, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Minor characters of Fullmetal Alchemist

 * Support, repeated info from other character articles.--Tintor2 (talk) 19:13, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Support - although the majority of the characters should be removed, as they're not necessary to mention. Sephiroth BCR  ( Converse ) 05:34, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Minor characters of the Fullmetal Alchemist manga

 * Support, overdetailed characters exlplained in this one.--Tintor2 (talk) 19:13, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Support - although the majority of the characters should be removed, as they're not necessary to mention. Sephiroth BCR  ( Converse ) 05:34, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Minor characters of the Fullmetal Alchemist anime

 * Support, several one-episode overdtailed characters.--Tintor2 (talk) 19:13, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Support - although the majority of the characters should be removed, as they're not necessary to mention. Sephiroth BCR  ( Converse ) 05:34, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Pinako is missing
Like, entirely. She's more important than half of the characters there. Somebody should fix this. 80.221.173.126 (talk) 06:46, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Anime only and main characters
I can understand combining these pages together, but as the source material, the manga has to be treated as the primary focus. A separate heading should be created at the bottom for characters exclusive to other media, which is also the only place where differences in homonculi should be noted. Also, main characters should be grouped together at the top, and a new section should be created under "Amestris" in place of "Alchemists" and "Other". Jbetteridge (talk) 23:48, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
 * No, we generally don't do grouping by media, nor do we break differences in media down to section. Yes, the manga should be the primary focus, but the list is properly organized using clear divisions from the series, or for series where those are lacking, using the neutral divisions of protagonist, antagonist, and supporting characters. Differences in the depiction of a character certainly belong in that character's single session, with the primary work (the manga in this case) providing the bulk of the description, and the differences in depiction noted towards the end of their section. Anime only characters should be included in the appropriate group, at the end of that group's list, with the appropriate notation in the first sentence of their summary. -- AnmaFinotera  (talk · contribs) 01:39, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

Explanation of edit
In anticipation of a future revert, I would like to explain my recent minor edit to the section on the character, Rose. Though it is implied that Rose is raped by a soldier in the anime, this little "fact" is not definite because:
 * 1) Rape is never explicitly mentioned.
 * 2) We are unaware of just how long Ed has been away from Lior. If he has been away for under nine months, then the baby certainly cannot be hers as it doesn't seem to be a prematurely born infant.
 * 3) Would Rose keep the baby of her rapist, anyway?

It is therefore safer to say in the article that it is implied she was raped. Wolf ODonnell (talk) 09:32, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

Movie characters
I notice that no characters introduced in the movies (Dietlinde Eckhart, Alfons Heiderich, Fritz Lang) are listed on this page. Is there a reason it's been left out, or has the page simply not been updated with movie information? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.28.192.172 (talk) 09:17, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Because they are minor, unnotable characters. They are likely mentioned on the individual movie pages, but for the franchise as a whole, they don't warrant mention beyond in relation to major points in other's sections, being essentially "one-shot" characters. -- AnmaFinotera  (talk · contribs) 13:42, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Should Father Cornello be included in the list. Although he didn't have much of a role in the manga, his overall presence in the anime is a bit more effective in the plot.Evilgidgit (talk) 11:59, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

Repeated characters
The problem of the Homunculi is that some of them are repeated a lot in the article; for example king bradley is explained twice and also selim. Could Wrath (manga) and Pride (anime) be simply redirected to King Bradley while Selim or Pride be also redirected?Tintor2 (talk) 01:14, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
 * That's something that really needs to be fixed. There should be one section for each character, and there should be one article per notable character (rather than one for manga, one for anime). That's part of the merges proposed above, which all seemed to have support but no idea if they were actually done. -- AnmaFinotera  (talk · contribs) 01:31, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
 * They were all well done. But the problem is that in Wrath and Pride we have explanations of 2 characters that is a bit confusing considering Bradley is explained three times.Tintor2 (talk) 01:37, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
 * It's not really a problem that can be avoided; Bradley has a different alias in the anime and manga, and Selim has an alias in only one of the two. You could transfer some of the Wrath/Pride commonalities to Bradely's section to lighten the load, but there's always going to be some level of redundancy. ~SnapperTo 03:20, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

Olivier?
Why has her name been changed back to Olivier? That is obviously a male name, it should be Olivia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.161.44.183 (talk) 04:25, 19 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Because her name IS Olivier, not Olivia per the official English releases. We use those names, not what folks think it "should" be. -- AnmaFinotera  (talk · contribs) 04:48, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

New character post
"The Truth appears only in the manga. It is a near-featureless humanoid mass of white surrounded by black Kirby dots that guards the Gate of Truth and demands tolls from alchemists who try to enter it. The being has a very sadistic personality, mocking and laughing at those who will willingly trade away some of their bodies for a glimpse of the omniscient knowledge housed beyond the Gate.  As the body part paid as a 'toll' dissolves away from the alchemist, it forms on the body of the Truth.  The Truth's only normal facial feature is its wide toothy mouth, which is visible only when contorted into a massive grin.  The Truth's name is derived from a brief conversation with Edward, where it also identifies itself as 'the One,' 'the All,' 'the World,' 'God,' and 'Truth.' However, in subsequent conversations it is referred to simply as 'the Truth.'" I would like to include a new character article for The Truth, but my post keeps getting deleted. Here is my article, and if it is decided that it is too unimportant to add I will stop trying to put it in. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.58.199.114 (talk • contribs) 23:35, September 24, 2008
 * Note, I removed the section because I found it to be more original research rather than something supported by the manga, and that while at least partially relevant to Edward and Alfonse's sections, I do not think as a whole it is a notable "character" for having its own section. -- AnmaFinotera  (talk · contribs) 04:39, 25 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Point taken. I will stop trying to post.  Sorry if it looked like I was starting an edit war, my computer sometimes does funny things when I try to edit Wikipedia, and I thought it was a personal system glitch until I saw the warning. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.58.199.114 (talk • contribs) 23:42, September 24, 2008
 * No problem. :) If you add something and then don't see it, though, check the article history first to see if another editor removed it. If it was removed, the edit summary will explain why. -- AnmaFinotera  (talk · contribs) 04:45, 25 September 2008 (UTC)
 * And now that this being has appeared in the new anime? What now?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.161.204.81 (talk) 14:40, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Having appeared for five seconds does not make too much notable.Tintor2 (talk) 18:58, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

Merges
I have tagged Maes Hughes, Lin Yao and Izumi Curtis to merge them here. None of these articles pass notability and have other issues. Dante, Hohenheim and Father may also be merged but I ll see how these go. Regards.Tintor2 (talk) 17:21, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Support all. No demonstrable notability for any of those. -- AnmaFinotera  (talk · contribs) 17:53, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Support Lin Yao and Izumi Curtis. Neutral for the moment about Hughes, as a quick search reveals massive fan reactions to his storyline, in-amonngst which there's a chance some reliable sources supporting his notability can be found. Will keep sifting if I have time. —Quasirandom (talk) 19:42, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Yesterday I merged Lin and Izumi. Maes Hughes has a lot of overdetailed info and there is nothing of notability.Tintor2 (talk) 17:49, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

Homunculi
I realize this has the potential to snowball and go very wrong, but can't we put just a little information about the powers of some of the manga-version homunculi, particularly Sloth and the worn-down Envy? I've tried, and keep getting deleted out. Speaking of Envy, as we now know that every manga-version Homunculus was created from Father, and, conversely, from the Philosopher's Stone of Xerxes, I will alter the part of the article that refers to Envy's stone as the sole product of that incident. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.58.199.114 (talk) 03:47, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
 * In regards to parasite Envy's abilities: What little abilities there are should be covered by the "parasite" descriptor.
 * In regards to Sloth's abilities: If I'm looking at the right revision, it's kind of speculation-ish. Is he resistant to damage? Yes to a certain extent. Does he gain immunity? That's pushing what has been shown in the manga.
 * In regards to stones: ... Huh. I remembered Father and Envy being made from different countries. I'll fix that. ~SnapperTo 19:39, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

Sigh...this is the second time my revisions have been undone en-masse. Look, while I agree in hindsight that many of the cuts were indeed composed of "too many details," some of them (such as May's crush on Al and Scar's brother's discoveries) were both short and important to character relationships and plot, certainly more so than the mention of May and Ed fighting over which one is taller which was left untouched. Some of the edits were even focused on condensing, correcting, and improving data, such as the now-fixed description of Envy's philosopher's stone. Now, I realize it's probably a lot easier to spot a few mistakes and undo all changes than to go through it all, but please. Don't just get rid of it *all* like *that*....Gads, now I sound like a whiner. Anyway, unless told otherwise, I'll keep my mitts off this page for now. User:68.58.199.114 03:18, 17 December 2008

Length issue
The list is becoming very long (97 kylobites) and it still needs several va refs, other anime refs, and expansion of conception (if available) and reception (lots of reviews available). Should we remove some minor characters and trim some parts? The question is which characters? Pinako s section is very short, but she appears a lot in the series. Regards.Tintor2 (talk) 16:27, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I cut out 4kb. See what you can do with that. ~SnapperTo 04:20, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I expanded reception, conception, refs, and other stuff. However, the page is 100 kylobites. Any idea?Tintor2 (talk) 15:05, 29 December 2008 (UTC)
 * If it's long, there's sometimes not a whole lot you can do about it. WP:SIZE is a guideline for a reason. Some of the character sections (namely the ones with articles) will eventually need expansion, so this is looking at 110-120K. — sephiroth bcr  ( converse ) 18:03, 29 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Especially with the upcoming new anime and the manga still being released. I was thinking of some moves of characters, but I have doubts since in the manga Knox, Fu and other guys can do some important parts in the series so I did not do that.Tintor2 (talk) 22:24, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

Character question
Who's the guy in this scene? The clip's from 4:01-4:08 Zeta Nova 02:16, 06 January 2009 (UTC).
 * Some guy friend of Izumi. Removed link from YouTube per Youtube. Tintor2 (talk) 14:06, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

Minor characters
While I was working on List of Fullmetal Alchemist episodes, I realized that while minor characters from the anime like Mugwar (or is it Magwar?) and Psyren (or is it Psiren?) don't have blurbs, minor characters from the manga, like Buccaneer have blurbs. Is this intentional? N OCTURNE N OIR ( m • t • c ) 21:56, 10 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Appearing in one episodes each of them, makes unneeded to show a section about them.Tintor2 (talk) 23:32, 10 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Since the anime is completed, it's easy to determine what anime characters don't need sections. Since the manga is still ongoing, what might be minor characters still have a chance to move up the importance scale. Buccaneer, for example, has seen a recent surge in activity. When the manga nears its finish superfluous characters will start to be cut. ~SnapperTo 04:15, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Alrighty. I was just having trouble deciding what I should wikilink since some people don't exist... Ah, oh well, I'll let someone else clean up behind me :D N OCTURNE N OIR  ( m &bull; t &bull; c ) 05:07, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Hey I got another question: who does Fletcher? It only says his brothers' voice actors. Can any of you please try to find out their names? Thank you. =^-^= I am an oktau and a baka at times but deny proven facts and you got a fight. 01:15, 19 April 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dragonmaster88 (talk • contribs)

Cast for series 2
Anime News Network have posted a list of the cast for series 2here. Aside from Ed and Al, a quick glance suggests it's all different Dandy Sephy (talk) 09:28, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

Scar and Alkahestry
While cleaning up some grammar and sentence structure things, I noticed how some paragraphs would go in depth about Scar, even when the paragraph wasn't about Scar. In one case (Ishbal), I considered removing it completely because it was utterly irrelevant to go into such detail about the one character and his history when the article was supposedly about the culture/race. I was surprised to find that Scar doesn't actually have his own paragraph, so I made one myself so that he could have his own. His information is mish-mashed here and there within other paragraphs and I attempted to compile it all together and cite the appropriate references and such. Please feel free to edit/organize as seen fit (you'll find it underneath "Ishbal"). If you would please discuss any edits that are made here so that I may understand the reasoning as to why.

Also, as of the 2nd episode of the new Brotherhood series: Funimation has decided to translate rentanjutsu (煉丹術) as Alkahestry. I've already gone through and made the appropriate additions wherever I've seen rentanjutsu, but I just thought I'd let everyone know. About midway through the second episode, Hughes passes Mustang the report on Isaac McDougal, the Freezing Alchemist from the first episode, and Mustang responds "Xingese Alkahestry?" (per Funimation's subtitles). If you actually listen to the Japanese, however, he does say rentanjutsu; I've provided the appropriate citations wherever I've added alkahestry, so whatever thoughts, just post 'em up here! Thanks -- Watemon (talk) 22:15, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

Suggestion for listing voice actors
Propose a change on how to better list the actors for those characters appearing in the anime (both series, for those that apply). Like the above discussion, I'm putting this all in one box so that it's A) easier to find, and B) to keep the discussion organized. -- Watemon (talk) 21:19, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

Rie Kugimiya voices him in Japanese, and Aaron Dismuke in the English adaptation. 1 Yūko Satō voices her in Japanese, and Laura Bailey in English. 2 Kimblee is voiced by Yuji Ueda in the Japanese series, and by Eric Vale in the English adaptation. His voice in the new series is provided by Hiroyuki Yoshino. 3
 * Currently, most paragraphs list the actors at the end of paragraphs as such:

Edward is voiced by Romi Paku and Vic Mignogna in the Japanese and English versions, respectively. 4 Toru Okawa and Travis Willingham voice Mustang in the Japanese and English versions, respectively. 5
 * Also, another way actors are listed:

My position: the way we currently list the actors at the ends of each characters' paragraph (for those that apply) isn't consistent throughout all characters. The language tends to be different, and I think we could make it better, as an encyclopedic reference source.


 * Looking back on an older version of this article 6 7 8, I found that the actors were listed underneath the character subheadings, just before the description:

I personally think listing the actors in this way is much better: it provides relevant information at-a-glance without necessarily having to read through the whole paragraph, and it removes the question of language and syntax. Organizationally it also looks much better. We can go ahead and make these changes if everyone agrees to it, no sense in repeatedly reverting edits if someone disagrees.12 -- Watemon (talk) 21:19, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

1st suggestion Zolf J. Kimblee
 * The problem for the latest (voice template) is that some of these characters are having more than 2 voice actors with the new tv series which most of these are new.Tintor2 (talk) 23:03, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Definitely see your point. We could probably easily add designation between the two series. Here's an example below, may or may not be too cluttered I don't think, but again I still think it's a better option than the one above. -- Watemon (talk) 23:50, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Voiced by: 1st series - Yuji Ueda (Japanese), Eric Vale (English) 2nd series - Hiroyuki Yoshino (Japanese)


 * Im not still not pretty convinced. That would take some unnecesary space. However, until now, all the only characters featured list from manga and anime (List of Naruto characters) uses prose instead of the voiced template.Tintor2 (talk) 00:14, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
 * So is the amount of space the primary consideration? If so I can think of other options. Primarily I'm hoping to make it more consistent, while also establishing some sort of consensus. Also, is it preferred that edits we make in this article be consistent with other articles in the anime/manga sub-group? Is it a preference that the voice actors be listed in prose? I feel these are valid questions because mainly I'm considering consistency and organization of data, and I simply want to make sure I have the proper considerations in mind. But if I'm wrong, I'm wrong, no big deal! -- Watemon (talk) 01:12, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

''1st suggestion (revised) Zolf J. Kimblee
 * Voiced by 1st series: Yuji Ueda (Japanese), Eric Vale (English) — 2nd series: Hiroyuki Yoshino (Japanese)


 * Mmmh. I think this should be discussed in the Wikiproject. I dont know when it was decided to use the prose for voice acting.Tintor2 (talk) 01:16, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Well I checked the Wikiproject page, and they don't seem to have a guideline on how to particularly list the voice actors (I will later check additional lists). The project did have guidelines for series and character articles, but none for Lists. There may be a bit of wiggle room for us to work with. Another acceptable alternative may be to create a table listing all characters and their voice actors. Would consolidate all the space into another subsection, maybe concluding the List of Characters. What do you think? (1st Jap/Eng : 2nd Jap/[Eng]) -- Watemon (talk) 02:33, 29 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Given we have a featured character list (List of Naruto characters, I suggested we go with what that uses - namely "Naruto's seiyū in the original Japanese anime is Junko Takeuchi, and he is voiced by Maile Flanagan in the English adaptation", or something along those lines Dandy Sephy (talk) 03:35, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I understand this point, but it sounds more like we're using the Naruto list as a guideline for what not to do, when it's supposed to serve as an example of what you can do, not necessarily deter us from using methods that the Naruto article doesn't use. I'm not trying to be stubborn, I'm just saying it's kind of unfair to say there are things we can't do because Naruto's doesn't do it, and not because what I hope to do is unacceptable. If there is some particular reason that my attempt to be bold is logistically wrong, I'll accept, I just don't think we're giving it a fair discussion. I hope I'm not being too persistent! -- Watemon (talk) 05:51, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Hmm I didn't actually spot that Tintor2 had actually referred to it previously. However, when we have a proven example, is there any need to do anything different? Featured articles and lists are there as examples of what could/should be done after all. List of Bleach characters (B Class) follows the same pattern too. So far I'm not seeing a good argument for dropping prose. A table certainly isn't a good idea. I agree with Tintor2, it needs addressing in the project as it affects more articles then just this one. Dandy Sephy (talk) 11:56, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Actually, I think the Bleach list is worse than Naruto's. There is absolutely no sense of grammatical or organizational consistency between any number of the characters. Yes we have a proven example, but that example is not solely proven nor exceptional because of the manner with which they listed their voice actors. It's not a need to do anything different than the "proven example", it's a need to improve this article. It just so happens my proposal is different than what could be done. Yes we could do it that way, but why not explore the options? We're too hung up on that, is what I'm saying. My argument for dropping the listing of actors from within the prose, is so that the list of items can be isolated from the actual paragraph in order to a) make that information easier to identify at-a-glance, and b) help improve the overall prose and grammar of each individual paragraph (some of which suffer at editors' attempts to add on 2+ voice actors as an after-thought following the summary). Disregarding that Naruto doesn't do it this way, for the sake of discussion: why is this not acceptable? Do you feel that this is already sufficiently done in the list's present form? Do you feel that it is irrelevant and not necessary to do so? (I swear my feelings won't be hurt if that's how you feel. Just get someone to agree with you, if that's the case and I'll shut up!) Yes this needs to be addressed in the project, however at present moment it's not and doesn't presently affect this conversation. So can we at least discuss this in a speculative manner? I had thought that was the point of the talk page: the proposal and discussion of edits before edits are actually made. What's the worst that could happen -- We decide to change it, request a review, the project says "no, do it the 'Naruto' way" and we change it back? At least in that way the question is addressed and given a precedence/ruling. We'll never know otherwise if we don't at least discuss it. -- Watemon (talk) 12:27, 29 April 2009 (UTC)


 * We are discussing it aren't we? Anyway, this isn't the place really, as I said, this affects more then this article so should be raised at WP:Anime Dandy Sephy (talk) 12:37, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Check out this section on Characters sections in main articles from their Manual of Style. They do make a mention of the anime voices tag. Grant it, they're speaking particularly about main articles, this is a start in terms of where they stand on how to list voice actors. What do you take from this? I'm still perusing their talk page for any possibly already-existing topic on listing voice actors. -- Watemon (talk) 13:56, 29 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Note: discussion is now at Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style (anime- and manga-related articles).Tintor2 (talk) 15:57, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

Greed's chimeras
I split this up, the section was getting too big, and Martel is too important of a dramatic character to clump in with the other ones like that. Tyciol (talk) 00:07, 5 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Marta is only a bit important in the first anime. In the manga, she is as important as the other chimeras. I cut some parts of the section.Tintor2 (talk) 01:08, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

2nd Series References
It's becoming a trend for editors to add references to events in the 2nd series that have yet to happen (i.e. Shou Tucker being killed by Scar before the episode had aired, or most recently General Armstrong's appearance).

Yes, the 2nd anime will more closely follow the manga (more particularly the later volumes after Maes Hughes' death), HOWEVER, just because it is likely that we'll see (currently) manga exclusive characters in the 2nd anime series or know how certain events may very well play out, doesn't mean we can say that characters appear in or events were depicted in the 2nd series before any of those episodes have aired. Please refrain from referencing the 2nd series if the 2nd series hasn't actually yet depicted what is being referenced.

Also, if everyone else could keep an eye out for these references as they occur. -- Watemon (talk) 16:22, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

I agree. Until some event happen in the 2nd anime, it shouldnt be mentioned.Tintor2 (talk) 16:26, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

Envy: S/he?
I trust when he added that the Anime Profile book refers as female. However, the Hohenheim (Fullmetal Alchemist) and Dante (Fullmetal Alchemist) articles refer to Envy (in the first series) as a son. However, I'm confused: it's the anime profile book that refers to Envy she. ~ Itzjustdrama ? C 22:51, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Now I don't personally own a copy of the profile books, but I would suggest that if there is any sort of discrepancy between the profile book and the anime, that we go with the anime. Within the plot itself, we know that Envy's TRUE form was created from the SON of Hohenheim and Dante (again, per the anime). If whoever was writing the profile books overlooked this plot detail because they were in some way unfamiliar with the story in its entirety, than it would be a darn shame to have the wikipedia article be incorrect as well. Within prose, I say refer to Envy as HE because we know this to be fact within the plot line, otherwise, I think it is worth noting the ambiguity behind his gender, and even noting that the profile books list Envy as such (if someone could verify this). Watemon (talk) 07:11, 28 May 2009 (UTC)


 * I agree.Tintor2 (talk) 13:08, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Alright, thanks. I never watched the anime myself. ;P ~ Itzjustdrama ?  C 23:11, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

Marta, Tintor
About this, is it really fair to call this character 'minor'? She's the focus of several episodes as a companion, and reveals critical information. In the very least these characters need their own bullets. I didn't make the article notably bigger, just more distinctive. Even if you don't want them to have sections (this is very valuable for redirecting their unique names eh? In the very least they should have their own bullets. Right now they're all lumped together in a huge 'chimeras' paragraph which is not easily legible. I can understand combining Bido/Dorchet/Loa because there's not much written, but a lot's written about her, how about at least a bullet? Hers is one of the more brutal scenes, easily comparable to Hughes in impact of demonstrating the homunculi's attitude. Tyciol (talk) 00:22, 14 July 2009 (UTC)


 * The sections are very short. There is nothing notable to expand and adding more info would be WP: Fancruft or undue weight.Tintor2 (talk) 01:11, 14 July 2009 (UTC)


 * I would have to concur -- in both anime incarnations, her death is the same, and it's worth noting that she receives more minor focus in the 1st anime series, there's not much to go off of that wouldn't come off as in-universe and such. Watemon (talk) 05:36, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Character Page Priority
So remind me again why Father, Dante, Hohenheim, and Winry all have pages? Hohenheim and Father are very unimportant (Non existant in Father's case) in the anime, while Dante is non existant in the manga. We know next to nothing about Father or Hohenheim due to them having been explored so little, which makes me question how you even managed to make full pages for them in the first place. Winry. . .Has no relevance whatsoever to the plot and is quickly overshadowed by other characters, quite honestly. The characters I'd propose get articles are Envy and King Bradley for their important status in both the anime and manga. They're more recurring and are much more defined then Dante/Father anyway. Father's case may change as we finally get to his fight in the manga, but at the present I don't see the logic behind it.

I agree entirely with the above poster. Hohenheim and Winry are both very minor characters in comparison to the likes of Envy who is, quite probably, the main antagonist of the entire anime series and a major character in the anime. Bradley is another case of this, being a very large character plotwise in both the anime an the manga. As the above poster also mentioned, Father is not at all relevant to the anime series whereas Dante isn't relevant to the manga. In my honest opinion, the characters that REQUIRE articles first should be the major players in both the anime and manga series. Either these articles should be removed permenantly (if the users here have no plans of making pages for more notable characters), or at least accompanied by pages for the more plot relevant characters. User:MarthTrinity —Preceding undated comment added 06:19, 22 October 2009 (UTC).


 * Importance of the series is not what counts for having an article. The reason why Winry has an article is because she passes WP:Notability. Even Riza Hawkeye could have her own article with the reception she has, but I'm a bit lazy to do it. I couldn't find reception for Hohenheim and Father, so I think both of them could be merged.Tintor2 (talk) 12:28, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

Etcetera
Just pointing out, for the sake of getting it out there... "Sheska"'s name is actually spelled "Sciezka". At least that's how it appears in text in Fullmetal Alchemist: Dual Sympathy, the Nintendo DS game. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Xelrog T. Apocalypse (talk • contribs) 10:10, 26 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Here we use the English primary media's names (in this case the manga). It seems her name is Sheska in the English manga.Tintor2 (talk) 13:14, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

The spelling of Ling Yao's name?
It is a fact that Ling Yao's name is spelt "Ling" and not "Lin", as many people misspell his name due to an error in the English VizMedia translations of the volumes. In Volume 9, Chapter 35: Scapegoat ('The Sacrificial Lamb' in Viz), "Ling Yao W1582" [ILLEGAL LINK REMOVED] is written on his jail bracelet, drawn by Arakawa herself, yet the translation of his name in the speech bubble is "Lin". The official spelling of his name is on the commercial titles of Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood, written in English [ILLEGAL LINK REMOVED], and is also on the official Japanese website (http://www.hagaren.jp/) under the characters section.

My editing of this was remarked as VANDALISM! I provided plenty of evidence, yet the person who marked my edit as vandalism provided very little against. —Preceding unsigned comment added by ElfenNyu (talk • contribs) 19:43, 27 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Your edit is considered vandalism - introducing deliberate factual errors. You have already been told why it was wrong, but repeated the inappropriate edits after multiple warnings and notes. Lin Yao's name is spelled Lin. Viz is the licensor, and they can choose it however the heck they desire. We go with the official English spelling of the primary work (as you have already been told), which per Viz is Lin. What is used in Brotherhood is irrelevant. What is used on illegal scanslation sites is BEYOND illegal (and do not link to such sites on Wikipedia). -- AnmaFinotera  (talk · contribs) 20:13, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

Okay, next time I'll take a photograph instead. How come you have not removed the official Hagaren site? It goes against what you're saying. And how is Photobucket illegal...? --ElfenNyu (talk) 21:47, 27 October 2009 (UTC)


 * By the way, Arakawa has wrote most characters' names in the latest character guidebook. There she uses Lin Yao. May Chang, Kimblee and Olivier have the same way of writing as the one used in this article although Fu and Lan Fan are different (Lan Fan is written "Ranfun" and Fu "Who") so it seems that Viz wanted to correct the names used in earlier volumes. The Hagaren site is not illegal as it's official.Tintor2 (talk) 21:50, 27 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Hagaren is the official licensed. Obviously the copyright owners can't violate their own copyright. That's basic common sense. The photobucket link was also not a licensed nor fair use copy. Don't post photos of illegal scanslations either - its the same difference. Scanslations are never valid nor appropriate sources/links on Wikipedia. -- AnmaFinotera  (talk · contribs) 22:09, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

Might i add that there is also a similar inconsistency in this and other related articles about the whole Xerxes/Cselkcess thing.

Isn't the policy to go with the official English spelling. In the FUNimation anime, it is clearly pronounced and spelled "Ling". And seeing how pretty much every other anime on this site goes by the "official" spelling, it's only right that this does the same. Buh6173 (talk) 07:20, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Official English manga name is Lin Yao.Tintor2 (talk) 18:24, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

Maybe a spoiler warning??
Hey Just wanted to say thanks for ruining the ending about Ed I have one episode left to see, GEEZ...have the decency to put a spoiler alert or something at the top. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.140.123.206 (talk) 22:23, 6 July 2010 (UTC)


 * You may to read Spoiler.Tintor2 (talk) 22:27, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

Ling Yao, Hoenheim, and Father
I wanted to know if it's alright for me to make a seperate article for Ling Yao, as I've found plenty of reception and he's pretty important in the series. Also, I've noticed that Hoenheima and Father don't have a reception section posted, so I'm going to add some to their articles, if that's alright.Redbird 41 (talk) 01:13, 26 April 2011 (UTC)


 * The correct name would be "Lin Yao" per Viz's and Arakawa's names and it would be better to first work in the article first in a sandbox and then make the article (most importantly to be sure it passes wp:notability). The role in the series is not notable for wp:notability, but third party sources about how the character was received (I noticed that even Hawkeye would be able to have a nice reception section).Tintor2 (talk) 01:20, 26 April 2011 (UTC)


 * It's done. I put it in the sandbox as is customary. Also, I know that his actual name is Lin Yao, it just doesn't sound right. Needless, to say that in the suggested article I'd refer to him as Lin Yao. Yes, Hawkeye would have a nice reception section. She's very popular and popular characters in general, are focused on in reviews and such. That's why it was so easy to gather reception info on Lin. I could add to the suggested article if necessary.Redbird 41 (talk) 00:53, 28 April 2011 (UTC)


 * Good. The use of abilties and personalities section has been nowadays discarded by the manual of style due to the focus on in-universe info, and so it should be done like Ed's, Mustang's or Winry's articles that are divided in appearances sections.Tintor2 (talk) 01:34, 28 April 2011 (UTC)


 * I see. I don't remember making an personalities section, but I'll check and I'll get rid of the abilities section. I used Scar's article as the model so that should be changed as well. Also, I have many references, but I'm only going to put them in if the article passes inspection because it takes a long time. I have trouble with images and character info boxes though. Also, should an article on the Homunculi be made? Father's the primary antagonist of the series, but as a collective they're very major antagonists too. And I'm sure we could find many reviews for a reception section.Redbird 41 (talk) 02:06, 28 April 2011 (UTC)
 * I don't know if it would be necessary. Maybe a third opinion from the project would help.Tintor2 (talk) 02:09, 28 April 2011 (UTC)
 * What won't be necessary? The article on Lin? The article on the Homunculi? Or both?Redbird 41 (talk) 02:57, 28 April 2011 (UTC)
 * I'd support an article for the character. The reception history is looking good and it's clear that he's been a very important character throughout the series series. The article is pretty well written with very few mistakes. I'd support this article, so long as you read and review it, and you have the references to back it up. Also, the Homonculi are very important to the series. An article on them as a group would be beneficial.STFX1046190 (talk) 03:09, 28 April 2011 (UTC)
 * I support the creation of Lin's article, but I'm not sure about the homunculi. It would a list of only seven characters, (thus a very short list), and if we try to expand it, it would to go to overdetailed. Just take a look at how detailed is List of hollows in Bleach. It'd be better to avoid something like that.Tintor2 (talk) 15:10, 28 April 2011 (UTC)
 * You make a good point about the Homunculi article. Anyways, I'll wait a while (probably a few weeks or a month) so that people can put in their opinion, and if the majority thinks it would be alright then I'll create it. I'll also check back here as much as possible.Redbird 41 (talk) 01:07, 29 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Consensus is not determinated by number of people, but guidelines. Besides being a small list of only seven characters, it will expand in-universe style as it would need to be expanded to avoid being a stub article.Tintor2 (talk) 01:16, 29 April 2011 (UTC)
 * I know that. I'm just saying that when they reach a general consensus on wether or not the article should be made I'll make it or not. So long as it's following the guidelines, and a consensus is reached.STFX1046190 (talk) 23:49, 1 May 2011 (UTC)

Lin has received both praise and criticism from various publications. Lin consistently places high on the popularity polls. Lin placed 9th on the most recent poll, and Greed/Lin placed 13th on the most recent poll. and praised his humanity and humility. While initially feeling that his character felt “forced” Chris Beveridge praised the combination of Greed and Ling and says that Greeling continues to be a “fascinating character to watch” and praised his development over the course of the show. Christopher Homer of the same site praised Lin’s jovial and sneaky personality. He went on to note the character’s deception saying, “Once his eyes open, you know you’d better start running.” He says that Lin becoming the new Greed “brings us a brilliant and fun battle within” praising the struggle between Lin and Greed for control of Lin’s body. Theron Martin of ANN.com praised Lin’s introduction to the series saying that it “expands a setting that was originally relatively limited for as worldly as its story was.” Chris Beveridge praised the Greedling character saying, “those two are becoming even more intertwined as time goes on” and that it “adds to the intrigue” of the character. Erin Finnegan of Anime News Network noted that the characters from Xing were “Chinese stereotypes” and pointed out that, “Lin has lines for eyes most of the time”. Lin Yao has appeared in other Fullmetal Alchemist merchandise including action figures. STFX1046190 (talk) 00:02, 7 June 2011 (UTC)


 * There are some similar comments like Lin/Greed part, so they could be joined and reworded than "he says". It could be better to move it to a sandbox.Tintor2 (talk) 01:39, 7 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Do you mean to take all of the parts about Greed/Lin and put them together? I would have put it in the sandbox, but if I did that it would be erased a few minutes later.STFX1046190 (talk) 04:12, 7 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I meant like creating your own sandbox like User:STFX1046190/sandbox.Tintor2 (talk) 11:45, 7 June 2011 (UTC)
 * So is that good enough for a reception section or not?STFX1046190 (talk) 23:17, 7 June 2011 (UTC)
 * While there is enough content, it needs fixes and citations for polls part.Tintor2 (talk) 01:07, 8 June 2011 (UTC)
 * The poll results are from Volume 24, Chapter 94, page 4.STFX1046190 (talk) 01:55, 9 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Chapter 94 was actually from volume 23 and the page has to be the one from the volume, not the one from the chapter.Tintor2 (talk) 02:00, 9 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I knew that chapter 94 was in Volume 23. I accidently typed in 24 and the page number for the volume is page 92.STFX1046190 (talk) 03:26, 9 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Also, someone said that Ling was his official name, not Lin. This is what they said and do you know if it's the truth or not.

I think you're a bit confused about how translations work. Arakawa has nothing to do with them, that's Viz's job. As for Ling's name, she does not call it Lin. Translations for names mostly come from eyecatches that are not translated by Viz, FUNimation, or any other English company. The eyecatch names are written in English by the Japanese writers. Therefore they carry much more weight than translations, and are what we use. Fullmetal Fan 22:48, June 9, 2011 (UTC)

STFX1046190 (talk) 23:33, 9 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Who am I replying to? Fullmetal Fan or STFX1046190? Is this another user? Nevertheless, the three official character manga guidebooks actually use the word "Lin Yao" and not "Ling Yao".Tintor2 (talk) 01:41, 10 June 2011 (UTC)
 * You were replying to me. I was just quoting that person. Also, while I understand why the Homunculi as a whole can't have a page, is it possible that I could make one for King Bradley and Envy because they show up everywhere and they could probably have a nice reception section too. Same thing with Hawkeye. — Preceding unsigned comment added by STFX1046190 (talk • contribs) 08:09, 15 August 2011 (UTC)

The anime should carry absolutely zero weight when translating something. The only things that count are the manga, databooks, or the mangaka. Gune (talk) 01:34, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

We need to add Basque Grand
He wasn't in either the anime or manga for long, but he did have an impact on the story, like with the raid on Ishbal. We need to add him under the Alchemists section. 66.168.179.100 (talk) 08:22, 13 July 2011 (UTC)


 * What impact? Nothing changed in the war. Besides a section about him would sure be short.Tintor2 (talk) 14:42, 13 July 2011 (UTC)


 * While I can understand why Basque Grand wouldn't be added to the Alchemists Section, shouldn't Grumman and to a lesser extent Raven be added to the State Military Section?STFX1046190 (talk) 20:19, 15 August 2011 (UTC)


 * I don't remember too much about them, but wasn't Grumman the elder who leaded the attack against father alongside Mustang's forces? That guy may be notable, but I think Raven had really little screentime.Tintor2 (talk) 20:24, 15 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Grumman was Mustangs Mentor and he worked with Mustang and helped lead the rebellion against Wrath, like you said. After Bradley dies he became the Fuhrer of Amestris. Raven was the General that Mustang tried get as an ally. He was also the guy that the Briggs soldiers and Armstrong used to get information about the Fuhrer's plans.STFX1046190 (talk) 18:41, 16 August 2011 (UTC)


 * I know. The problem is that with such little information, the sections would be really small.Tintor2 (talk) 19:42, 16 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Well, I've already said that I wasn't sure about Raven, but I'm pretty sure he could have a big enough section. However, even if we don't make one for Raven I believe that Grumman should have a section. He was an important enough character and a section for him would be good. I'm not going to put one up for him though, unless you say it's okay since you seem to understand the rules of wikipedia a lot better then me. So I'll just wait.STFX1046190 (talk) 00:27, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I'd say Grumman is okay considering his large actions. Raven had really small cameos during the time Bradley was revealed as a homunculus and later appeared to talk with Armstrong, which ended in his dead.Tintor2 (talk) 00:31, 17 August 2011 (UTC)

Is Greed an antagonist or protagonist?
Greed, for most of the manga and 2003 anime, was definitely against the antagonists (both Dante and Father). So shouldn't he be removed from the antagonist section? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wrath X (talk • contribs) 14:43, 29 November 2011 (UTC)


 * Noted. But he still was against the Elric brothers for the majority of the series and it isn't until the last seven volumes from the manga that he became a supporting character.Tintor2 (talk) 15:10, 29 November 2011 (UTC)

A major character missing
Where is Truth? The colorless, enigmatic entity that took Edward's arm and leg, Al's whole body, and did other things vital to the story. He (it?) is a major part of the plot line and needs to be added. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tigerlotus (talk • contribs) 03:43, 13 February 2013 (UTC)


 * Already discussed. He only appears for few pages and there's almost nothing to write about it.Tintor2 (talk) 13:10, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

Ishval vs. Ishbal
Unfortunately, while I agree with most of the recent changes, there seems to be some disagreement on the use of the words Ishval or Ishbal. Per WP:MOSANIME, we are using the Viz manga names (as this is the primary work). Viz originally translated Ishbal as Ishval, but later spellings corrected it and this is the one that has been used for most of the articles. Since we are following the original story and second anime, Funimation opted to use the (incorrect, I think) Ishval spelling. So, given that we use the manga names (as with One Piece, etc.), should we use Ishbal (the corrected name) or Ishval? Comments are welcome. Lord Sjones23 (talk – contributions) 02:55, 10 October 2014 (UTC)


 * Was the manga spelling retroactively applied after a certain year? If so, that would indicate that Viz wants the Ishbal spelling to be used throughout. Otherwise check if they went with a different translator for the later volumes. For the anime-specific articles, use the spelling appropriate for those seasons. It seems that both spellings are acceptable, especially if you see both spellings in the same manga volume (yes, I've seen that with Talk:List of Rosario + Vampire characters). The details can be footnoted if Ishbal is not a main term in an article. -AngusWOOF (talk) 05:37, 10 October 2014 (UTC)


 * Wow, I didn't realize they switched so early. Viz switches from Ishval to Ishbal between volumes 3 & 4 (same translator and English adapter throughout whole series). Its simple in my opinion; go with Ishbal, except in the second anime's articles. Xfansd (talk) 16:13, 10 October 2014 (UTC)

In the manga, there's a map that shows it as "Ishval." It is commonly mistranslated because there is no "v" sound in Japanese, so because it sounded like a "b" that's what it was replaced with, contrary to the "v" in the spelling. This error was fixed for the Brotherhood anime because of this translating mistake, so it is safe to say that Ishaval should probably be the right translation that should be said. Sasrrs (talk) 01:48, 14 April 2016 (UTC)

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Fuhrer President
When I watched the show, King Bradley is referred to as the "Fuhrer President" as his role... but this isn't mentioned her on this page. Its mentioned on the FMA wiki - https://fma.fandom.com/wiki/King_BradleyDeathlibrarian (talk) 08:05, 24 September 2019 (UTC)
 * First, we use the names/terms from the official English release of the original medium, which is the manga. So the fact that you heard it in the "show", or anime adaptation, isn't that important. But I just checked and the manga uses "Führer President", so I added it. Xfansd (talk) 21:15, 24 September 2019 (UTC)