Talk:List of X characters

Annoyed
I'm attempting to edit the X Character page to add new information and reword present information for clarity. The changes are initially appearing, but someone seems to continuously change them back within a few minutes. I do not appreciate this and would prefer that whoever is doing it (be it an anonymous fan or a moderator of some sort) first of all know that what I am doing is neither attempted graffiti nor without cause, and secondly that this behavior is highly annoying. SumeragiNoOnmyouji 04:10, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

A note on Nekoi Yuzuriha's biographical information
I've changed the phrase "…which only the Dragons of Heaven and Earth can see" to "…which only others with occult powers can see" due to continuity discrepancies the first phrase has with X canon. Characters OTHER than the Ten No Ryuu and Chi No Ryuu (such as Hinoto and Yuzuriha's grandmother, and assumably, any other family members of Yuzuriha's) are able to see Inuki. This is because they possess spiritual or magical powers. The ability to see the inugami is NOT restricted solely to the Dragons of Heaven and Earth. SumeragiNoOnmyouji 04:10, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

A note on Hinoto's romantic interests
While it's true that Hinoto never explicitly declares that she loves Daisuke, Daisuke obviously loves Hinoto. Moreover, Hinoto is, at the very least, extremely fond of him and cares greatly for his well-being (as evidenced throughout the manga). Therefore, Saiki Daisuke should be taken as the CANONICAL romantic interest of Hinoto. Please stop attaching "according to some"'s to that. SumeragiNoOnmyouji 04:10, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

A note on the romanization of Kakyou's name
Although the "official" romanization (as per Viz and the Hepburn system of romanization) of Kakyou's named is "Kuzuki Kakyou", I maintain that second syllable of "Kuzuki" should remain "dzu". It is the natural voiced fricative of "tsu", and is not pronounced precisely the same as "zu", which is the fricative of "su". Moreover, Nihonshiki romanizations of this name would represent his name as "Kuduki" (as seen in the ending credits of the OVA). The natural compromise of Hepburn and Nihonshiki romanizations (and the closest representation to that ACTUAL sound heard) is "dzu". SumeragiNoOnmyouji 04:10, 3 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Some early volumes of the manga translated by Viz also renders Kakyou's surname as "Kuduki". While the pronunciation of his name is closer to "Ku'tsuki" or "Kudzuki", "Kuzuki" was likely chosen as the "official" romanization for aesthetic purposes, both audio and visually.  I think most readers of the manga would be more familiar with the "Kuzuki" spelling with over the others though, even if it sounds more like "Kudzuki" in the end, since that particular affricate is not common in the English language.

Article Size
As I've been renovating and updating this article, I noticed how long it's become. Due to its size (currently around 48 kb), I've decided to break the X Characters article up into three new articles: The Dragons Of Heaven, The Dragons Of Earth, and Supporting Characters. Please be patient while I rectify this situation. Thank you. SumeragiNoOnmyouji 02:00, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

Name analysis
Is no analysis as is, and more a simple listing of dictionary knowledge. I deleted it here and over in the other X character pages, as there's no deeper worth and no meaning to merely citing a dictionary.

Beast
Should it be mentioned that Beast was (it is implied) built on Kanoe's orders in the anime but by Satsuki herself in the manga? --12.42.50.51 15:06, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Hokuto's relationship to Subaru
In the anime version (as well as the manga of Tokyo Babylon, where they keep some Japanese words in), Hokuto is referred to as Subaru's nēsan, which means "older sister". Does this mean she's the elder twin and therefore, in class-conscious Japan, regarded as "above" Subaru, hence her bossy nature (she almost seems to act like his legal guardian at times)? Or is she just called his nēsan because she bosses him around (a sort of chicken and egg situation)? Or is nēsan also used for twin sister -- i.e. any sister who isn't younger? Dave-ros 22:16, 28 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Most likely, Subaru calls Hokuto neesan because she is the older twin of the pair.  Even though they are twins, if Hokuto was born first, she is the "older sister".  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.84.5.55 (talk) 08:07, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

Individual mugshots
The picture (presumably from the X manga) is nice, but it doesn't show who's who, so would it be okay for me to upload framegrabs of each character from the anime -- not only here, but also for the Dragons of Earth (including one from the movie version for Shogo) and at X Characters? If necessary I could make a single mosaic image for each one, in case there's a rule about not having more than one screenshot in an article... Dave-ros 19:46, 29 June 2006 (UTC)


 * I know this is probably very late, but that would be a great idea. Some characters seem to have images, while others don't and it would be a great source for anyone who just got into X and would like to see what they look like. Reitsch 04:00, 25 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Will work on it when I regain my home Internet connection (next week)! Dave-ros 15:24, 25 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Good luck on it! Reitsch 03:48, 28 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Done my best, but had some issues with which side to put pictures on -- finally decided to stick with the idea of having them looking "into" the article, where applicable. Will get on with the other X articles too... Dave-ros 18:21, 28 November 2006 (UTC)


 * It looks fantastic. Well done! It's nice to see specific characters faces for a change, rather than have them all together in a photo and figure out who's who. Reitsch 07:42, 2 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the support! Only realised too late that I should have given the pictures more descriptive names -- have only used their "familiar" names as file names!  Fortunately none was taken (though there had been a "Subaru.JPG" that had been deleted previously), but still... oh well, live and learn! Dave-ros 12:13, 2 December 2006 (UTC)


 * I think it looks great, but it's a good thing the names weren't taken ... And this may be a silly idea, but I wonder if one could post more images or is there a limit? (I'm mainly asking because posting pictures of their manga-self would be a good idea as well) Reitsch 13:47, 4 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Don't think there's a limit to images, but I think there would be an issue with regards to space on the page! In any case, aren't those the manga versions in the image at the top of the page?  It also has to be said, apart from covers the manga is black-and-white -- colourful images are generally preferable.  I imagine we can leave out movie screenshots as they look almost identical to their TV incarnations, except for characters who weren't in the TV series (like Shougo, though I had trouble finding a half-decent image of him), or who look more like their manga selves in the movie than the TV series (like Kanoe, who I may get a picture of from the movie -- she was rather more, er, conservatively-dressed in the series!).
 * However, if you could provide manga images of characters who weren't in the TV series or the movie (like the CLAMP campus guys whose names I forget), that would be greatly appreciated! Otherwise the only image I could put there would be the unnamed "chairman" from the TV series who takes on all their roles... Dave-ros 17:14, 4 December 2006 (UTC)


 * I suppose your right. It was just an idea anyway. - As for the chairman thing, the only images of him and the CLAMP campus guys are in black and white, and both the TV series and the manga have different chairman's (I think), so maybe it's just me, but it would be a bit confusing, unless we write a summary to differentiate them, but I imagine that would be unnecessary (?) Also, the only pictures I have of "Shogō Asagi" would be from his appearance in the Tsubasa Reservoir Chronicles manga :) Reitsch 07:14, 7 December 2006 (UTC)


 * As long as we have the caption "as seen in the manga", I think the black-and-white images of the CLAMP campus guys would be fine. Also, do you have any images of Sorata's shikigami Gohōdōji from the manga?  He's only seen fleetingly in episode 18 of the TV series, and it's hard to get a good shot of him, but I imagine he appears more than once in the manga? Dave-ros 11:38, 10 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Actually, concerning the Gohou Douji - though they serve the same function as shikigami, they're not the same - Gohou Douji are used by esoteric monks and shikigami by onmyouji. Also, the description you gave in the article is anime only. I don't recall its appearance in the anime, but in the manga, the Gohou Douji was constantly with Arashi until it was needed. --KagamiNoMiko 12:26, 10 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Dave-ros: Then the black and white images will have to do. The only problem is, I have zero clue on how to upload them ;) - And as far as the Sorata topic goes, I have no clue whether it's a Shikigami or Gohou Douji, but I think KagamiNoMiko might be correct in her evaluation. Also, It's really hard to find a good picture of it. I have the manga and I would have no problem scanning it, but due to my moving changes of recent, I have yet to locate my scanner. Reitsch 09:46, 12 December 2006 (UTC)


 * (Resetting back to the left-hand side) I've edited Sorata's entry to reflect what KagamiNoMiko said -- there's an entry about gohōdōji in X Terminology, but I can't link to it as someone decided to change that document so all the terms would be straightforward headers. I preferred having them as linkable headers, because then it's like lots of articles in one... but anyway, yes, a gohōdōji is just another type of summonable spirit, similar to but not the same as a shikigami.  I might put a framegrab of Sorata's one from episode 18 of the anime in the X Terminology page just for the hell of it :-P
 * As for yourself, well, good luck finding your scanner -- I think it's in the third box down in the stack behind you... no? Well, keep looking!  Once you've scanned an image, use the "Upload file" option in Wikipedia's toolbox main menu (left-hand side of the screen) to upload a picture -- should be self-explanatory from then on.  Let me know if you need any further help! Dave-ros 17:10, 12 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Sorry for the somewhat late replies, but as you may or may not know, un-packing isn't anyone's favourite past time - Anyway, thanks for setting the conversations right back to the left-hand side, otherwise it would make for interesting or awkward discussion. That aside, I just read the edited entry you posted on Sorata and I think it makes much more sense. As for the framegrab, I say go for it, if you want to ;)


 * Heh. You could be right. And I congratulate you for guessing that I had boxes behind me :) - Also, Thank you for explaining the basics on uploading a picture, since I have most of my boxes sorted out, I should find my scanner easier now. So I might just upload the picture either tomorrow or the day after. But if somethings missing or whatnot, anyone's free to edit or delete it. (Edit: Hm. I seem to be having trouble uploading the file...) Reitsch 22:36, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

Name analysis
Is no analysis as is, and more a simple listing of dictionary knowledge. I deleted it here and over in the other X character pages, as there's no deeper worth and no meaning to merely citing a dictionary.

Subaru as Kamui's love interest?
Before I start an edit war: Should Kamui's character description include the fact that it is possible to conclude from their interaction that Kamui has a crush on Subaru, even though CLAMP themselves called theirs a relationship of "sisters" in CLAMP no Kiseki? --KagamiNoMiko 10:10, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

If CLAMP themselves have stated that their relationship is no more than that of family likeness, then that's what it is. That rumor was just started by hopefuls and nothing more. CLAMP themselves never said anything to that extent, though they did mention that Fuuma and Kamui's relationship transcended that of a normal friendship, and fans already knew that Kamui without a doubt felt something for Kotori. So to add Subaru to the list would be a hope and not a fact. Now if it were Seishirou we were talking about, that's another story ;) Reitsch 02:01, 16 November 2006 (UTC)


 * They're definitely close (especially in the TV series where Subaru clearly regards Kamui as his new "special person" as he is thus able to generate a kekkai), but that doesn't necessarily mean a romantic entanglement, any more than Sherlock Holmes and Dr. Watson, or Kirk and Spock, were gay lovers. In fact, KagamiNoMiko's quote about "sisters" is interesting, as it implies Subaru now regards Kamui as an equivalent to Hokuto!
 * As an aside, anyone who's read Tokyo Babylon will tell you nothing ever actually "happens" between Subaru and Seishirou except words (aside from the latter kissing the former's hands during that meeting under the cherry tree nine years ago...). Dave-ros 17:58, 17 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Your partially correct, except, I watched the Anime and I didn't see Subaru regard Kamui as his " new special person" - he simply wanted to protect Kamui at the last moment to give him enough time to fulfill his wish. Aside that, the Anime is different from both the Manga and the Movie, therefore it doesn't follow the same flow of storyline seeing as it varies.


 * And as for Subaru and Seishirou, your right, nothing actually happens between them, but there is no need for anything to happen in order to figure out what's going on, especially when Subaru clearly states that he loves Seishirou, and just to add an after-thought, "most" fans who have both read and seen X and Tokyo Babylon can tell you that when Seishirou died, following everything that's happened between him and Subaru, it's clear that his last words were probably "I Love You" ... Reitsch 02:20, 18 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Maybe I misunderstood the TV show, but I thought a Dragon of Heaven could only create a kekkai if they had a strong desire to protect their "special person"? Hence Kamui can't create one (until the very end) because when he finally becomes a Dragon of Heaven, one of his special people dies and the other becomes the enemy... and similarly when Seishirou dies, Subaru can no longer do it until he comes to protect Kamui, again in the last episode.  Obviously that's just the TV series and not the original manga!
 * P.S. Sorry, but I indented your text a bit further, just to show separate people talking ;-) Dave-ros 14:33, 21 November 2006 (UTC)


 * I suppose everyone had their take on it. For me, I think it centered more on the desire to protect rather than because of a "special person" (although I'm sure that is one of the key factors as well) For example, both Arashi and Sorata could create a kekkai way before they met each-other, and I seriously doubt either party had a "special person" at the time, seeing as Sorata thought Arashi and only Arashi was a woman worth giving his life for. So the way I see it, it stems from the need to protect the world and it's inhabitants, and I suppose if you add the "special person" factor, that's the power boost ;) Though, I could be wrong, but that's just my interpretation of it.


 * Ah. Thanks for that. I had forgotten about adding another ":" Reitsch 23:21, 23 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Coming back from this interesting discussion - when I posed the question, I was more thinking of the way Kamui's feelings for Subaru in the manga have been interpreted as romantic by many, many readers. Should this little fact be mentioned in the article, for example in a sentence like "Though many fans long believed Kamui to have developed a crush on Subaru, CLAMP themselves said in the interview in CLAMP's Wonderworld #9 (?) that the two of them are like 'sisters'." --KagamiNoMiko 10:18, 24 November 2006 (UTC)


 * As I said similarly at the top of the page; In my opinion, this article is based on what CLAMP has shown us and mentioned in both the Manga, Anime, etc. rather than what fans interpret. However adding something along the lines of "It has been mentioned by CLAMP in a previous interview that the two are very much like sisters." ... Would be alright. Now call me biased or whatnot, but saying that "many fans" believed Kamui to have a crush on Subaru is an understatement, "some" I would believe, but not "many" - I know a-lot of people in various sites who would argue with that assertion. Of course, I won't dare to speak for them, but I'm sure if you head over to one of those sites at the *edited* forums and mention the crush on the X board, you would have loads of fans arguing about it and telling you they have nothing more than a sisterly relationship and Kamui only views and values Subaru as a close friend. And rather than start a editing war here in "Wikipedia", It would be best to leave it as is or just mention exactly what CLAMP said in the interview. Reitsch 03:48, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

Shirō Kamui article
Since Shirō Kamui exists as a separate article... what should be moved to the separate article and what should stay here? Any volunteers for the move? --KagamiNoMiko 00:46, 18 November 2006 (UTC)


 * That article ought to be merged here, if anything (assuming there's anything in that article not already in the Dragons of Heaven one), unless Kamui appears significantly outside X. Dave-ros 14:26, 21 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Kamui also appears in Tsubasa as a relatively important secondary character. Describing his role there would indeed be easier in a separate article. (For now, though, the article is on Kamui in X, and there's nothing interesting in it - it's very much a stub). --KagamiNoMiko 10:23, 24 November 2006 (UTC)


 * On a similar topic, I've been having thoughts about making an entire article for Subaru Sumeragi, since he's effectively in three works including Tokyo Babylon and this Tsubasa thing and thus suitably "deep" to have his own article. But I reckon it'd also be worthwhile for Kamui, as long as it could be expanded a bit -- and maybe just a link and a quick summary in this article. Dave-ros 13:32, 11 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Sometimes I think it would be easiest to have separate articles for every CLAMP character that has more than a short cameo in "Tsubasa" - it would certainly be helpful on the Ashura/Ashura-oh issue. -_- Problem is, I certainly don't have the energy to write enough about the characters to warrant separate articles. --KagamiNoMiko 19:20, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Yuzuriha
Yuzuriha is, thus far, the only character who has effectively forced Fūma, the Kamui of the Dragons of Earth, to stand down in battle—a feat which many of the older and ostensibly more powerful Seals, such as Kamui and Subaru, have yet to come close to matching.

I don't like this sentence, as it implies more than actually happened: Fuuma was testing her will to live and left when she proved it by giving birth to the new Inuki. Can anyone think of a good way to reword the above sentence to convey this? --KagamiNoMiko 20:19, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Fūma Monou
it seems as though he is (at the very least) strongly compelled to grant the wishes of others, if not outright-forced to

This is more interpretation than fact. It's never actually been stated why Fuuma grants grants wishes, and although I suppose this is a possible reason, I would say that, according to the last few chapters that were published, where he tells Karen that he grants others' wishes as an expression of his own wish, it's actually more likely that Fuuma enables the people he faces to attain their wish out of his own free will.

Anyway, I'm not saying it should be changed to that, but I am saying that it's not actually indicated in the manga that he's in any way forced to do it. Gekidasa (talk) 17:49, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

Furigana's too much..
This article needs to be brought into the WP:MOS-JA style guidelines. The furi needs to go and it needs some trimming (i.e. the name analysis.) --Kunzite 02:17, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Hrm, it doesn't copy and paste over well either (the ruby text). When I try to copy a single line of kanji, it picks up the kana as well...  I'm not really liking ruby. =/ -Aknorals 05:42, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Name analysis
I'm currently deleting that all, leaving this on the discussion page: Is no analysis as is, and more a simple listing of dictionary knowledge. I deleted it here and over in the other X character pages, as there's no deeper worth and no meaning to merely citing a dictionary.

Sakurazuka Seishirō
Does anything in X or Tokyo Babylon actually specifically state that the cherry tree is demonic and requires the Sakurazukamori to kill people in order to feed it, or is it an interpretation arising from the folk story that Seishirō told about corpses buried under the tree feeding it and making the cherry blossoms pink?
 * It's merely an interpretation and strongly fanon. It's never actually said why the Sakurazukamori kills, only that it's his task to protect Japan. --KagamiNoMiko 17:48, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
 * There's evidence both ways for whether he serves an actual, evil cherry tree -- needless to say, spoilers ahead:
 * Pro: Subaru remembers (in Tokyo Babylon) wandering off and finding himself under a cherry tree whose blossoms were pink while those of other nearby trees were still white; since Seishirou had just killed a little girl (as we find out in the final volume -- she must have been either the next Hitler or a relative of a previous victim), this is evidence that the tree really does exist and feeds on blood. Subaru also remembers trying to exorcise the tree, but failing (can't remember the exact details, don't have the manga to hand right now).  So unless Seishirou was drawing power from that particular tree because it happened to be close at hand, or just likes killing people under cherry trees, it suggests there is one tree in particular that gives him his power...
 * Anti: the tree appears inside Seishirou's illusions, in the middle of a black void; unless this is a psychic projection of the one "evil" tree, it suggests that the only place it really exists is in these illusions (so when Subaru was 9 he must have "wandered into" an illusion somehow). Seishirou also tells Subaru that the Sakurazukamori has "clients", suggesting that, rather than an all-knowing tree sending him on his missions, it's actually individuals who tell him e.g. this mad woman's cult is going to grow to a million members and threaten the stability of Japan, so please kill her.  Since we know Japanese politicians use Princess Hinoto and the Magami clan for their own ends, one imagines they use the Sakurazukamori too (though naturally behind the scenes).
 * Dave-ros 16:22, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Contra: The tree Subaru tries to exorcise that first meeting vanishes before the eyes of his grandmother, so it must have been an illusion. --KagamiNoMiko 08:55, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Fair point -- so I guess we can agree that the tree is just a symbol that frequently (though not always) appears when Seishirou's about to kill someone. This is also true in the TV series, unless Kakyo just happened to be being held prisoner very near that One Evil Tree... if anything, that scene (in episode 0) suggests the tree acts like a beacon!  So anyway, I reckon we should at least mention this fanon idea that he serves a particular tree, just so people like me don't keep trying to edit it in as canon? Dave-ros 17:13, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Split articles
When characters appear in more than one series, like Subaru Sumeragi and Seishirō Sakurazuka, I think the split is a no-brainer. There's just too much information to cover in one tiny entry in a list. For characters like Kamui Shirō, it'd better to wait until his entry is long enough. However, if his role in Tsubasa Chronicle is large enough, I think the split is justifiable.

I'm bringing this up because Dave-ros brought it to my attention. If anyone else has an opinion, feel free to discuss it.--Nohansen 15:07, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

Recent move
I'm gonna copy here something I said at the Project talk page back in March of this year:


 * "WP:STAND says stand-alone lists are "lists of links" or "usually consist of links to articles in a particular subject area". But most of the lists of fictional characters aren't really lists of links, but character profiles organized in a list-like format. There might be something to what the editors at Characters of Halo did. Should we rename all the Lists of anime and manga characters to "Characters of..." and treat them as articles rather than lists? After all, I remember a time when this project called for lists of characters be named "List of characters in (series)" if it is just a list, or "Characters in (series)" if it contains actual information on the characters."

So, this is "more" than a list. While the MOS reccommends that this type of articles be named "List of (series) characters", exceptions can be made (it says so at the top of the page). Also, the "List of Halo characters" became a GA after it was renamed "Characters of Halo", and I'm confident this article (with a little work) has the same chance.--Nohansen (talk) 22:09, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Romanization of Tohru Magami's name
User:TangentCube has changed the spelling of Tohru (to use the same spelling as CLAMP) Magami's name from Tōru to Tooru, reasoning that this is required to indicate a break in kanji. However, nowhere on the linked discussion page, in the MOS or the Hepburn article does it say anything about this being required. The only thing I've found is the difference made between 'ō' and 'ou', a difference which, as far as I remember, is also indicated by the hiragana used. But this does not seem to be the case with Tohru. So, for consistancy's sake (as every other name is written using macrons), I propose going back to Tōru. --KagamiNoMiko (talk) 13:46, 13 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Here's a more recent discussion on the issue of macrons between kanji: Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style (Japan-related articles). Note that everyone commenting there is in agreement that vowels broken by kanji remain separate, which is repeated in a section later on.  This is why we have an article at Motoo Furushō and not Motō Furushō, for example.  I believe the formal ANSI definition of Revised Hepburn (ANSI Z39.11-1972) also makes this distinction, though I do not have the document on hand.  (and if it is Tohru anyway, why isn't the article using that?)  —tan³ tx 18:57, 8 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Because we don't use any of the romanizations which Clamp have used on the backcovers. --KagamiNoMiko (talk) 08:51, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Satsuki Yatoji
Hello, I was reading the section about Setsuki Yatoji and I was wondering, is this character a boy or a girl? In the article it is stated that this character is a girl. However, in the trailer on the ghost in the shell DVD it is stated that Setsuki Yatoji is actually a boy. should this be ammended in the article? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Master1001 (talk • contribs) 00:39, 26 November 2009 (UTC)
 * She's called Satsuki, and she's a girl. You might not want to edit any manga/anime articles unless you've actually read/watched the series in question.--KagamiNoMiko (talk) 09:17, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

Sorry, I am new to posting, also, I meant what I said. In the trailer for the anime/movie it actually said "Beware Satsuki Yatouji, beloved of the beast" and you hear Satsuki make a sound and the narrator says "what does the beast say of him. And that is what made me believe that Satsuki is a boy.--Master1001 (talk) 01:32, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

About the unreliable sources tag
Dani Cavallaro's publications have been designated as generally unreliable sources in this discussion at the reliable sources noticeboard. Citations to her work can be replaced with more high-quality ones or removed, and the tag can be taken off once complete. — TechnoSquirrel69 ( sigh ) 20:51, 6 June 2024 (UTC)