Talk:List of countries and territories by maritime boundaries

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Channel Islands[edit]

Should Guernsey and Jersey be treated as countries? I don't think so. Luis wiki (talk) 23:20, 3 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

You are right, they are not sovereign states. I am going to work on revising this by making it a list of countries and non-sovereign territories. Good Ol’factory (talk) 00:04, 4 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Questions[edit]

  1. What is the meaning of the addition "(M)" in some of the entries?
  2. How is it justified to include country pairs whose territories are much farther apart than the customary breadth of territorial waters? I see country pairs in the list that are separated by hundreds of kilometers of international waters (e.g. Egypt and Turkey, which are about 500 kms apart). These countries don't have a "boundary" with each other by any meaningful definition of the word, for all I can see. Not even a "potential" boundary, unless some time in the future the admissible breadth of territorial water claims should be extended to vastly more than it is at present. I'd strongly recommend restricting this list to cases that actually have adjacent territorial waters (as defined either by bilateral treaties or, in most cases, by application of their customarily accepted claims to territorial waters, i.e. usually either 6 or 12 nm.) Otherwise, we could just as well also include "neighbours" across the Ocean, such as Ireland and the US, which would "border" on each other in the middle of the Atlantic. Fut.Perf. ☼ 11:21, 8 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
The (M)s are remnant errors from the recent migration of data from List of countries and territories by land and maritime borders, where they had a meaning. I just haven't got around to accurately deleting them all, but I will shortly.
As for your second question, the answer is to be found in the sources provided. I didn't make up this stuff—it's from the sources. The 5 volume source is authoritative in this area of international law and is quite comprehensive. Essentially, these are the maritime boundaries that are recognized at international law. Many are recognized by treaty but all are recognized by the sources. That's the easiest answer to the question. But to attempt to answer the question about distances by giving an original research-type answer—oftentimes, there are outlying islands from countries that are close to each other and form an international maritime boundary. Other times, the maritime boundary is formed by touching Exclusive Economic Zones, which go out much further than 6 or 12 nm. The United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea changed the way international law thinks about maritime boundaries—in the old days, we were talking about a 3–12 mile limit, but this is not the way the system works anymore. Your idea of including "neighbours" across the sea I assume to be hyperbole, as it would neither be supported by the sources nor by international law in general. Cheers, Good Ol’factory (talk) 11:35, 8 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Hmm, if you want to include adjacent EEZs (or continental shelf claims), that might arguably be justified, but I think it needs to be discussed in the lead, and such cases should be marked off in the list, because such a "boundary" is really something quite different from a true boundary between sovereign territories. An EEZ is not really part of the country it belongs to in the normal sense. Fut.Perf. ☼ 11:44, 8 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I think that's probably an outdated way of thinking about this, judging by the sources. The sources make no distinction, and actually I don't know if any of them actually are exclusively EEZ boundaries. (As I suggested I was just kind of OR/guessing about your wondering. I don't recall any being defined that way, but I didn't read each one in great detail—I just kind of copied the information into chart form. I could check, but I don't know that it's worthwhile—I would tend to just go with the source anyway.) As I glance through them most of them appear to be garden variety boundaries, often with islands near to each other. Good Ol’factory (talk) 11:51, 8 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Okay, I can see your point that these sources appear to be using the notion of "maritime boundary" routinely in the sense of including EEZs and such things. If you feel it wouldn't be feasible to distinguish the different kinds in the list entries, I guess that's okay too – but can we have a clarification in the lead please? Fut.Perf. ☼ 12:02, 8 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I take back what I said about it being an outdated way of thinking about things. As I look more carefully at the sources, the EEZ/territorial sea distinction is indeed still relevant in the real world, but not so much for the information included in the WP article. These mostly all seem to be of the old, traditional types of maritime boundary—territorial seas, etc. This distinction is interesting to me, but really beyond the scope this article, I think. The real source of the problem is the lack of a good article on maritime boundaries that could be linked to. United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea is not bad, and perhaps could be referred to somehow. I'll search through the sources tomorrow for a possible definition that could be included. (I expect it might be found in an entire chapter, however....) I don't want to just make something up or pull it out of my butt, as I've tried hard to make the entire page based on the sources. Good Ol’factory (talk) 12:07, 8 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Okay, thanks a lot for your response and for the work you're putting into this. Fut.Perf. ☼ 12:22, 8 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
OK, I did some more careful looking and yes—the standard used in the sources is a maritime boundary is a boundary that would be recognized by the Convention on the Law of the Sea, so that includes territorial waters boundaries, contiguous zones boundaries, and exclusive economic zones boundaries. I've added this explanation in the second sentence of the lead. Thanks for bringing the issue to my attention; I think it's an important thing to establish up front. I'm sorry about my scatter-brained previous responses where I was trying to be helpful but really wasn't much help—it was late where I was and I wasn't working at full speed and didn't have time to look into it properly. Good Ol’factory (talk) 21:34, 8 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

No. of unique and sovereign maritime neighbours[edit]

How can France have a No. of unique and sovereign maritime neighbours of 31? I only count 24! Luis wiki (talk) 21:26, 9 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

  1. Antigua and Barbuda
  2. Australia (includes Heard Island and McDonald Islands, Norfolk Island)
  3. Barbados
  4. Belgium
  5. Brazil
  6. Canada
  7. Comoros
  8. Dominica
  9. Fiji
  10. Italy
  11. Kiribati
  12. Madagascar
  13. Mauritius
  14. Monaco
  15. Mozambique
  16. Netherlands (includes Netherlands Antilles)
  17. New Zealand (includes Cook Islands, Tokelau)
  18. Spain
  19. Papua New Guinea
  20. Saint Kitts and Nevis
  21. Saint Lucia
  22. Samoa
  23. Seychelles
  24. Solomon Islands
  25. Spain
  26. Suriname
  27. Tonga
  28. Tuvalu
  29. United Kingdom (includes Anguilla, Guernsey, Jersey, Montserrat, Pitcairn Islands, UK)
  30. Vanuatu
  31. Venezuela = 31 30 — Good Ol’factory (talk) 21:51, 9 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

That's right. I'm sorry. My mistake Luis wiki (talk) 22:03, 9 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

It's OK—I've been counting these things for a few days and it can turn the brain into knots. Good Ol’factory (talk)
Make that 30. I listed Spain twice. Good Ol’factory (talk) 01:17, 12 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Move discussion in progress[edit]

There is a move discussion in progress which affects this page. Please participate at Talk:Lists of countries and territories - Requested move and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RM bot 18:41, 17 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Northern Cyprus[edit]

Northern Cyprus is legal[edit]

1. LEGALITY AND RECOGNITION ARE TWO COMPLETELY DIFFERENT THINGS
Recognition is completely a political notion/act (as stated by Int’l Court of Justice, Kosovo 2010 decision) and has nothing to do with legality. 1/193 country recognizes Northern Cyprus; but even if 0/193 countries recognize NC, this has nothing to do with legality of NC.

The President of the International Court of Justice (ICJ) Hisashi OWADA (2010): “International law contains "no prohibition" on declarations of independence."
the International Court of Justice (ICJ) (2010): "while the declaration may not have been illegal, the issue of RECOGNITION was a POLITICAL one"

Recognition is a political, not a legal matter.

That is to say, "being recognized/not recognized does not affect legality/illegality of a country". Recognition is a political action.

SINCE NORTHERN CYPRUS IS LEGAL, ALL ITS COURTS AND LAWS ARE ACCEPTED IN THE WORLD: SEE 2 & 3 BELOW.

2. ALL LAWS OF NORTHERN CYPRUS ARE ACCEPTED IN EUROPE (EUROPEAN COURT OF HUMAN RIGHTS; ECtHR)
In Northern Cyprus, laws of Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus are valid:
ECtHR’s 02.07.2013 Decision: "...notwithstanding the lack of international recognition of the regime in the northern area, a de facto recognition of its acts may be rendered necessary for practical purposes. Thus, THE ADOPTION BY THE AUTHORITIES OF THE "TRNC" OF CIVIL, ADMINISTRATIVE OR CRIMINAL LAW MEASURES, AND THEIR APPLICATION OR ENFORCEMENT WITHIN THAT TERRITORY, may be regarded as having a legal basis in domestic law for the purposes of the Convention".

ECtHR’s 02.09.2015 Decision: "..the court system in the "TRNC", including both civil and criminal courts, reflected the judicial and common-law tradition of Cyprus in its functioning and procedures, and that the "TRNC" courts were thus to be considered as "established by law" with reference to the "constitutional and legal basis" on which they operated......the Court has already found that the court system set up in the "TRNC" was to be considered to have been "established by law" with reference to the "constitutional and legal basis" on which it operated, and it has NOT accepted the allegation that the "TRNC" courts as a whole lacked independence and/or impartiality......when an act of the "TRNC" authorities was in compliance with laws in force within the territory of northern Cyprus, those acts should in principle be regarded as having a legal basis in domestic law for the purposes of the Convention.." Note: Here, what ECtHR means by "laws in force within the territory of northern Cyprus" is the laws that TRNC published and put into implementation, as can be understood from ECtHR’s above 02.July.2013 decision.

3. UNITED STATES’ FEDERAL COURT: "TURKISH REPUBLIC OF NORTHERN CYPRUS IS A DEMOCRATIC COUNTRY"
USA Federal Court (09.October.2014): “Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus is a democratic country” "Although the United States does not recognize it as a state, the TRNC purportedly operates as a DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC with a president, prime minister, legislature and judiciary...TRNC is NOT VULNERABLE to a lawsuit in Washington" The news of the Court decision (13.10.2014); Page of the Court case (Note the Defendant: Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus!); Decision of the Court

4. THERE IS "NO PROHIBITION" ON DECLARATIONS OF INDEPENDENCE IN INTERNATIONAL LAW
The President of the Int’l Court of Justice (ICJ) Hisashi Owada, 2010: "International law contains "NO PROHIBITION" on declarations of independence."

5. NORTHERN CYPRUS BEING A COUNTRY IS NOT DISPUTED
Northern Cyprus being a country is not disputed. The definition of "country" is bigger than whether being a UN member or not. There are countries that are not member of UN. See, “country” definition in WP: A country is a region identified as a distinct entity in political geography. A country may be an independent sovereign state or one that is occupied by another state, as a non-sovereign or formerly sovereign political division, or a geographic region associated with sets of previously independent or differently associated peoples with distinct political characteristics.

That’s why, even the sources from United Nations (UN) cite Northern Cyprus as a different country: World Happiness Report 2015 of United Nations’ Sustainable Development Solutions Network (SDSN) ranked Northern Cyprus 66th among 158 countries, directly above the Republic of Cyprus, which was ranked 67th. [ http://worldhappiness.report/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2015/04/WHR15.pdf UN SDSN World Happiness Report 2015 p.27: 2012-2014 country rankings]

United Nations’ (UN) Sustainable Development Solutions Network (SDSN) World Happiness Report 2016: See “Figure 2.2: Ranking of Happiness 2013-2015 (Part 2)” North Cyprus: 62th among 157 countries; (South, Greek) Cyprus: 69th among 157 countries.
I found the above facts by googling, there are many ohters as well.Woodgridge (talk) 07:55, 4 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

There's a lot of information you've put down here (some of which is legally dubious, speaking as a person who works in international law), but bottom line for purposes of this article is that we need a consensus to change the way that the list is presented if it is to be changed. Right now, the default it that only states with fairly wide recognition are considered sovereign states for the purposes of the list, though states that don't meet that standard are still included for information purposes. Good Ol’factory (talk) 23:16, 4 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
"the default it that only states with fairly wide recognition are considered sovereign states for the purposes of the list": Sovereignty and recognition are two completely different things. Sovereignty does not depend on the number of recognizing countries (1 138/195 UN countries recognizes Palestine whereas 1/195 UN countries recognizes Northern Cyprus, but Northern Cyprus is more sovereign than Palestine. Palestine fishermen cannot fish outside of 3-mile sea area determined by Israel. Northern Cyprus search oil in south of Cyprus island (in its EEZ acc. to NC) where there is EEZ-dispute between NC and C; C cannot prevent this. 2 Cyprus is recognized by 192/193 countries but it has no sovereignty in north of Cyprus; hence, when Cyprus becomes EU-member, EU-acquis was suspended in north of Cyprus: area not under the effective control of the government of Cyprus (a phrase used by the government of C itself!). In the past, various Cyprus's citizens and polices were arrested by the polices of the government of Northern Cyprus that is fully sovereign in north of Cyprus).
The International Court of Justice (ICJ) (2010): "Legality and recognition are two completely different things. RECOGNITION is a POLITICAL issue". Even though one inclines its arguments towards "Legal Sovereignty, Northern Cyprus is again sovereign (See def'n of Legal Sovereignty", ECHR's decisions, USA Federal Court's decision etc.)". Hence, all in all, the default of list is very very wrong at all. Some novice people think "more recognition hence more legal/sovereign", and got shocked when they see ECHR's decisions and USA Federal Court decision. Once again:
Legality and recognition are two completely different things. Legality does not depend on recognition at all.
Sovereignty does not depend on recognition at all. Taiwan (22/193) is more sovereign than Palestine (138/195).
"consensus to change the way that the list is presented": It would be wise to adopt the usual Wikipedia treatment of states: 1. Full UN members 2. UN member states not recognised by at least one UN member state 3. Non-UN member states recognised by at least one UN member state 4. Non-UN member states recognised only by non-UN member states 5. Non-UN member state not recognised by any state. These 5-category is standard in WP, and removes the disputes "more recognized/less recognized" or "sovereign/nonsovereign" etc. Woodgridge (talk) 12:59, 5 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Honestly, @Woodgridge:, with what you have written above and below, you're clearly entering into WP:TL;DR zones. I would suggest you drop the stick. Your personal knowledge and advocacy of the situation is not what is important. You need to try to gain a consensus to change the way the list is presented, not convince other editors that your interpretation of the real-life situation is correct. Good Ol’factory (talk) 21:57, 5 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
@Good Olfactory: Please see Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Alexyflemming. Dr. K. 00:37, 6 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Northern Cyprus has legal sovereignty[edit]

Legal Sovereignty: Legal sovereignty is that authority of the state which has the legal power to issue final commands. It is the authority of the state to whose directions the law of the State attributes final legal force. In every independent and ordered state there are some laws which must be obeyed by the people and there must be a power to issue and enforce these laws. The power which has the legal authority to issue and enforce these laws' is legal sovereignty.

ALL LAWS OF NORTHERN CYPRUS ARE ACCEPTED IN EUROPE (EUROPEAN COURT OF HUMAN RIGHTS; ECtHR)
In Northern Cyprus, laws of Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus are valid:
ECtHR’s 02.07.2013 Decision: "...notwithstanding the lack of international recognition of the regime in the northern area, a de facto recognition of its acts may be rendered necessary for practical purposes. Thus, THE ADOPTION BY THE authorities OF THE "TRNC" OF CIVIL, ADMINISTRATIVE OR CRIMINAL LAW MEASURES, AND THEIR APPLICATION OR enforcement WITHIN THAT TERRITORY, may be regarded as having a legal basis in domestic law for the purposes of the Convention".

ECtHR’s 02.09.2015 Decision: "...the court system in the "TRNC", including both civil and criminal courts, reflected the judicial and common-law tradition of Cyprus in its functioning and procedures, and that the "TRNC" courts were thus to be considered as "established by law" with reference to the "constitutional and legal basis" on which they operated......the Court has already found that the court system set up in the "TRNC" was to be considered to have been "established by law" with reference to the "constitutional and legal basis" on which it operated, and it has NOT accepted the allegation that the "TRNC" courts as a whole lacked independence and/or impartiality......when an act of the "TRNC" authorities was in compliance with laws in force within the territory of northern Cyprus, those acts should in principle be regarded as having a legal basis in domestic law for the purposes of the Convention.." Note: Here, what ECtHR means by "laws in force within the territory of northern Cyprus" is the laws that TRNC published and put into implementation, as can be understood from ECtHR’s above 02.July.2013 decision.

UNITED STATES’ FEDERAL COURT: "TURKISH REPUBLIC OF NORTHERN CYPRUS IS A DEMOCRATIC COUNTRY"
USA Federal Court (09.October.2014): "Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus is a DEMOCRATIC COUNTRY" "Although the United States does not recognize it as a state, the TRNC purportedly operates as a democratic republic with a president, prime minister, legislature and judiciary...TRNC is not vulnerable to a lawsuit in Washington" The news of the Court decision (13.10.2014); Page of the Court case (Note the Defendant: Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus!); Decision of the Court

i.e., like any independent sovereign country in the world, Northern Cyprus is not VULNERABLE to a lawsuit in other countries (here in the above case, it is USA).Woodgridge (talk) 11:32, 5 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Northern Cyprus does not rely heavily on Turkey for its continuing existence separate from Cyprus[edit]

Northern Cyprus economy runs mainly over EDUCATION and TOURISM. In these areas, NC is self sufficient.

Education: Northern Cyprus is NUMBER 1 IN THE WORLD in "university students/total population" ratio.

The number of university students in (south, Greek) Cyprus: 38,647
2014-2015: Other countries'-citizens: 2,328 EU-citizen students: 8,669
( http://www.kibrispostasi.com/index.php/cat/58/news/194317/PageName/GUNEY_KIBRIS )
( http://www.kibrispostasi.com/print.php?news=192627 )

The number of university students in Northern Cyprus: 81,000 (in 12 universities)
2015-2016: Other countries'-citizens:21,982 TurkishCypriot:12,000 Turkey's-citizen:47,033
Total number of international students: 69014
(NC is 12th in the world!: https://www.theguardian.com/higher-education-network/blog/2014/jul/17/top-20-countries-international-students)
http://www.kibrispostasi.com/index.php/cat/35/news/174762/PageName/KIBRIS_HABERLERI

As per the students from 3rd countries, NC is 10-times bigger than Cyprus!

NORTHERN CYPRUS PARTICIPATED INTERNATIONAL ROBOCUP CHAMPIONSHIPS IN BRAZIL IN 2013 AND 2014:
Many countries could not be able to participate to the championship since they are very lag behind of Northern Cyprus in education!
http://robocupssl.cpe.ku.ac.th/teams:teams http://robotics.neu.edu.tr/

NORTHERN CYPRUS PARTICIPATED 2014 SOLAR CHALLANGE IN SOUTH AFRICA where solar-energized cars compete and race.
Many countries could not be able to participate to the championship since they are very lag behind of Northern Cyprus in education!
http://www.solarchallenge.org.za/near-east-university-solar-car-team/

NORTHERN CYPRUS has supercomputers and therefore PARTICIPATES AND CONTRIBUTES CERN EXPERIMENTS (HIGGS BOSON ETC.) IN SWITZERLAND.
http://duyuru.neu.edu.tr/?p=83555
Many countries could not be able to participate to the experiments since since it is very lag behind of Northern Cyprus in education!

There is a medicine faculty in Northern Cyprus whereas in (Greek, south) Cyprus it was still under construction in 2015!

Tourism: In 2012, no. of tourists in Northern Cyprus (whose population is 313,000): 1,166,000
From Turkey: 77% (904,000 tourists) + Others: 23% (262,000 tourists). Of the 23%, United Kingdom: 28%, Germany: 9%, Iran: 8% etc.
The no. of tourists coming from Turkey is bigger than the others does not mean NC economy heavily depend on Turkey. Geographical proximity do this. If no tourists come from Turkey, there remains 262,000 tourists as well! Also, the hotels in NC belong to Northern Cypriots, i.e. to the Northern Cyprus economy. ( http://www.dunya.com/dunya/avrupa/kktc-turizm-rakamlarini-10-yilda-2-3e-katladi-186237h.htm ).

Foreign debt: The foreign debt/GDP ratio of NC is very low compared with 193+2 UN members.Woodgridge (talk) 12:13, 5 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Factors listing Northern Cyprus as not sovereign are blatantly false[edit]

From this diff, NC was mentioned as not sovereign:
Northern Cyprus also lacks some of the indicators of legal sovereignty, relying heavily on Turkey for its continuing existence separate from Cyprus. Because of these factors, Northern Cyprus is not considered a sovereign state....
Factors listing Northern Cyprus as not sovereign are blatantly false, see above:
Northern Cyprus has legal sovereignty and
Northern Cyprus does not rely heavily on Turkey for its continuing existence separate from Cyprus.

Based on the suggestions of Good Ol’factory here, I'll wait one week. If no one objects with plausible reasoning, I'll revert. Woodgridge (talk) 22:28, 5 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I've already objected, so we need other participants to go forward if changes are to be made. I don't have a problem with some of the edits you have made, just in the proposal that we default to treating Northern Cyprus as a sovereign state for purposes of the list. My reason is that the majority of other countries that share a boundary with Northern Cyprus do not recognize that boundary as being one with Northern Cyprus, and it's in line with how we treat other states with little or no recognition. (I have no objection to including it in the list, however, and indicating what boundaries it shares with respect to its own interpretation.) I'm not interested in debating issues of Northern Cyprus's sovereignty. However, I fear that you've written so much that it's going to be difficult to attract any further comments from other editors. Good Ol’factory (talk) 22:50, 5 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • North Korea and South Korea do not recognize each other, but they are listed in the table as being the neighbors of each other. So, for example, North Cyprus and (south) Cyprus do not recognize each other, but why are not they listed in the table as being the neighbors of each other?
  • The reasonings that specify NC as nonsovereign are (1. legal sovereignty 2. heavily reliance on Turkey for existence). Which one(s) of those do you participate in? I argue like this: 33,967/81,000 university students in NC are non-Turkey; 262,000/1,167,000 tourists in NC are non-Turkey. So, without Turkey's contribution to NC, NC still exists but with less than "GDP/capita = USD 15,000" this time. The remaining still far exceeds many of 193 UN member states, i.e., NC (Turkish Cypriots) continues to exist just as they existed during 1963-1974 where there were negligable Turkey's contribution.
  • You say "I don't have a problem with some of the edits you have made, just in the proposal that we default to treating Northern Cyprus as a sovereign state". So, what about the following offer which includes the up-to-dated 2013-2015 developments, but excludes anything about sovereignty: (Is it OK for you?)
  • Offer: In 1983, Northern Cyprus declared independence from Cyprus. Northern Cyprus' sovereignty has been recognized by 1 UN member state (Turkey), and it is not a member of the United Nations, and Cyprus disputes its sovereignty, claiming that Northern Cyprus is its own territory. Northern Cyprus is a democratic country according to USA's Federal Court (13.10.2014-news; case; decision), and the laws and the court system of Northern Cyprus are deemed legal by the European Court of Human Rights (02.07.2013-decision; 02.09.2015-decision). Woodgridge (talk) 12:32, 6 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I don't see how the American federal court's ruling has any relevance to this article. Whether N.C. is a democratic country or not is not particularly relevant to any issue in the article. Similarly, with the ECHR judgment—whether the laws and court system of N.C. are legitimate and legal has no practical relevance to this article. It seems to me that it's enough to say (in the footnote) that that N.C. is not a member of the UN, that N.C.'s sovereignty is recognized by Turkey, and that all other states recognize Cyprus's claim of sovereignty over N.C. territory. That's all we need to know, and that much is enough, in my view, to treat N.C. as a non-sovereign state as far as this list goes. How N.C. is treated for the purposes of this list is not a final determination of the legal or political issues involved. I believe this should be treated differently than the Korea situation because (1) both Koreas are members of the UN, and (2) the vast majority of countries in the world recognize the sovereignty of both Koreas to be independent of one another. So they both have majority recognition and UN recognition. N.C. has neither of these. My personal view on N.C. sovereignty is I don't care. Good Ol’factory (talk) 22:33, 6 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Northern Cyprus description is set accordingly[edit]

In Wikipedia, both of the Kosovo and Northern Cyprus are "states with limited recognition". Hence, they must be acted the same in WP. This is Kosovo's description:

In 2008, Kosovo declared independence from Serbia. Although Kosovo's sovereignty has been recognized by about 65 states, it is not a member of the United Nations and Serbia disputes its sovereignty, claiming that Kosovo remains one of its provinces. The dispute has been referred to the International Court of Justice. For purposes of this list, Kosovo is considered to be a sovereign country.

Note that Kosovo's description is very very very obsolete just as that of Northern Cyprus: 1. There are 108 countries that recognize Kosovo 2. The International Court of Justice decided the referred dispute in 2010. So, it seems even the Kosovo's description is at least 6-year obsolete.

This is Northern Cyprus' current description:
Northern Cyprus declared independence in 1983, shortly after Turkey invaded the island in response to a coup d'état by Greek Cypriots that was backed by Greece. Cyprus disputes the declaration of sovereignty and considers Northern Cyprus to be part of its territory. The United Nations and the European Union also do not recognize the sovereignty of Northern Cyprus. The only sovereign state that recognizes Northern Cyprus's sovereignty is Turkey. Northern Cyprus is not considered a sovereign state for the purposes of this list and is not included in other countries' listings of neighbouring countries and territories.

The following is imitation of Kosovo's description for Northern Cyprus:
In 1983, Northern Cyprus declared independence from Cyprus. Northern Cyprus' sovereignty has been recognized by 1 UN member state (Turkey), and it is not a member of the United Nations and Cyprus disputes its sovereignty, claiming that Northern Cyprus is its own territory. Northern Cyprus is a democratic country according to USA's Federal Court (13.10.2014-news; the case; the decision), and the laws and the court system of Northern Cyprus are deemed legal by the European Court of Human Rights (02.07.2013-decision; 02.09.2015-decision). For purposes of this list, Northern Cyprus is considered to be a sovereign country.

The decisions of USA's Federal Court and European Court of Human Rights on Northern Cyprus correspond to the decision of International Court of Justice on Kosovo.Woodgridge (talk) 20:49, 5 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Black Sea[edit]

To the user from IP 2600:1700:...: I cannot find any support for the neighbors you added in the Black Sea. Ukraine's and Bulgaria's waters do not touch Georgia's (and Abkhazia's) on any map I can find. Do you have a source that says otherwise? --Lasunncty (talk) 00:55, 6 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

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