Talk:List of culture heroes

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"Mythology"

Really? This is about as blatant of a violation as one can get. Not only dose "Mythology" single handedly dismisses national findings as "myth", but every religion as well. The entire article needs rewording gently. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.181.114.227 (talk) 03:21, 1 November 2010

You misunderstand the definition of myth. My doesn't mean that something is illegitimate or false. Myths are stories passed down culturally through generations, regardless of their truth. Most religions are, by academic definition, are mythology. Read the Mythology page. DiegoAma (talk) 16:03, 27 April 2018 (UTC)

The Abrahamic religions should not be seen as myths...
These things, whether true or not, are documented in books and aren't passed down generation to generation by stories and other means. They can be seen as literary works but not really as myths. 1907AbsoluTurk (talk) 04:13, 11 August 2011 (UTC)
 * They are myths (in the academic definition of the word). Also, their teachings/stories actually were passed down generation to generation before finally being written down. The teachings/stories of all other Religions went through the same process (like the Vedas of Hinduism and the Homeric poems of the ancient Greece, for example). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.176.205.162 (talk) 14:11, 6 November 2011 (UTC)


 * After many years of gently trying to educate people on the term "mythology" right here on wikipedia, I find it sobering that this is still an issue. Some people obviously do not think it is necessary to read the very content they are complaining about even superficially. --dab (𒁳) 07:52, 9 May 2013 (UTC)


 * Except Jesus and Mohammed. Both belong to List of founders of religious traditions and not here. Ugog Nizdast (talk) 00:10, 7 July 2016 (UTC)

The historicity of Jesus has been questioned and a lot of relevant traditional material on his person may indeed be unhistorical. The historicity of Muhammad does not concern questions on his existence (which is generally accepted) but points to the fact that most primary sources on him are not in fact contemporary to his era and may contain legends, myths, and literary inventions. In other words, we know far less about them than what the traditional narratives say.

I am more concerned with the fact that this list fails to mention any real source. The one source in the entire article discusses the relationship between culture heroes and trickster, not what defines these particular figures as culture heroes. Original research? Dimadick (talk) 19:02, 10 July 2016 (UTC)

Check Again
this part should be refreshed because considering for instance Davy Crocket was a real person and there is no mths listed on his link about him that this needs some serious editing ill help a bit but I wont do it all -Hephaestus59 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hephaestus59 (talk • contribs) 18:17, 11 March 2014 (UTC)

Let me add that this topic is in relation to cultural heroes, which includes to: religion, mythology, folklore, literature and history. Any person or character, whether if they are real or fictitious, can be regarded as cultural, as all five of the above mentioned genres have influence on culture. Though I personally feel that religion and mythology should be included as the same in certain cases, as one person's religion is another person's mythology, and both should be respected equally. That said, if the Greek culture's religion is regarded as mythology, then all other cultures' religions should be as well, and if any of the modern religions' are regarded as religion and not mythology, then so should all the rest. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.111.15.175 (talk) 06:35, 19 July 2014 (UTC)

a lot of entries here are heroes, not culture heroes
a culture hero is supposed to be credited with invention or discovery. But a lot of people listed here are significant as ancestors or warriors, not inventors/discoverers. E.g. see Robin Hood, Horsa, Achilles, Susanoo among many others. 76.119.30.87 (talk) 19:30, 18 August 2014 (UTC)

Bob Dylan: Mistake or unusual vandalism?
Bob Dylan seems a tad out of place on this list. I'm going to remove the very real, still living folk music hero from the list, though I have no doubt that he wasn't, arguably, a culture hero to the subculture of Haight-Ashbury in the 1960s (I'm only half joking here).

But I'm wondering if there's an actual US cultural hero with a similar name to Bob Dylan? As in, the cultural figure the original author may have intended to list. (You probably get the idea). I'm American, but no one is really coming to mind. Cheers! Caitlin.swartz (talk) 19:32, 24 April 2019 (UTC)ParamediCate

Superman?
Maybe I'm a little confused as to the definition of a cultural hero, but Superman seems a bit out of place here. As I understand things, Superman is obviously a fictional character, rather than a legend passed down for centuries. My children know about Superman, but I never considered telling his story -to them- as an American legend. I am going to remove the entry, so I do apologize if my understanding of cultural heros is off (but anyone can add The Man of Steel back to the list, so it's not a huge deal) Caitlin.swartz (talk) 19:45, 24 April 2019 (UTC)ParamediCate

After reading another discussion on this Talk page, I'm going to leave Superman on the list for now. But it seems like the description section of this page may need some clarification. I'm, obviously, unqualified to clarify the topic, as I do not really understand what a cultural hero is at this point.

Please discuss here, if you would like!

Caitlin.swartz (talk) 19:49, 24 April 2019 (UTC)ParamediCate

I should note that I have read the culture hero page as well. I'm mostly just confused by the discussions found on this Talk page. It seems that there's some dispute between this group of editors regarding the definition. (I realize I look ridiculous talking to myself over here ;) ) Caitlin.swartz (talk) 20:01, 24 April 2019 (UTC)ParamediCate

"needs re-write" tag
I am going to remove this tag, as the discussions on a rewrite are not in-depth enough to really justify a full re-write, the tag is pretty old, and anyone can add it back if they would like. I hope that no one takes offense to my removal of the tag (at least after reading this discussion page).

It seems that the "complete re-write" tag was added by some editors who disagree with a few (or several) of the items on the list. But a full rewrite seems unnecessary and excessive. It seems like we really need to get on the same page, via discussion and research, about the most accurate definition of a culture hero/myth/folklore. And that we need to carefully edit the leed such that it doesn't suggest any particular cultural legend/myth is false. No one can prove or disprove these sorts of philosophical beliefs and stories.

There seems to be a lot of debate over the term "mythology"/"myth". Perhaps we should clarify this in the leed paragraph? It also seems like we need to clarify if verified historical figures may be included and whether or not religious texts, namely of the "big three religions"/ the Abrahamic religions (Torah,Quran, Christain Bible, etc), qualify as verifiable evidence that a person did exist. Though, this may be a discussion which is impossible in which any form of consensus is possible.

It seems prudent to use the academic definition of a cultural myth, rather than the general definition, as Wikipedia is an encyclopedic work. Though, it's important to understand that the academic term originally arose in an overall cultural which was much more religious, in terms of the Abrahamic religions. As such, the original academic terms relating to myth and folklore may have indeed been discrediting other belief systems. But we do not live in that world anymore.

Because the English Wikipedia predominantly has editors from the Western world, it's no surprise to see debate about the inclusion of the Abrahamic religions; in relation to the confusion of the definition of "myth". In my opinion, neglecting to add these religions seems very ethnocentric, as the absence is basically saying "This is the correct belief, and all other folklore/beliefs are absolute hogwash."

I recognize that discussing cultural folklore is a very delicate situation, as it's easy to inadvertently belittle another person's faith or belief system. But being truly neutral requires neither verifying nor discrediting any particular myth/legend; we just need to state that the legend exists or has existed.

I'll do a little research and work on the leed section. But it would be great to have an expert on folklore/mythology/classics go through this article!

Thank you for reading this very long discussion page :) Caitlin.swartz (talk) 20:55, 24 April 2019 (UTC)ParamediCate