Talk:List of fatalities from aviation accidents

Osvaldo Hurtado
I believe the line "Osvaldo Hurtado	 ECU	1981	President of Ecuador	Beechcraft Super King Air	Ecuador	flew into mountain" is in error. The page on Hurtado says he became president in 1981 after the death of Jaime Roldós Aguilera who died in a plane crash.

Prince Gustav Adolf of Sweden & Kennedys
Prince Gustav Adolf of Sweden died in a crash in 1947 (see Grace Moore). I do not like to put him in a group with terrorists or "Others"; nor do I like to create a new group.

I think its funny the Kennedy's get their own section.

Sebastjan

Alphabetical v chronological
Are these supposed to be ordered alphabetically or chronologically? - Evil saltine 05:44, 3 Sep 2003 (UTC)
 * By occupation. Inside occupation, alphabetically. Jay 09:05, 8 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Heli crashes
Should helicopter crashes be included?
 * I don't see why not. --Wik 07:08, Sep 4, 2003 (UTC)
 * Yes. Example - Francis Gary Powers. ShelbyBell (talk) 00:51, 22 February 2012 (UTC)

bin Laden & JFK Jr.
There's a certain urban folklore quality to the notion that Osama bin Laden's father died in a plane crash. I'm not expressing doubt (at least not here), I just find it interesting.

Incidentally, JFK Jr. is listed under both Politics and Other. Which is it? --Calieber 16:52, 17 Oct 2003 (UTC)

Douglas Bader
Surely Douglas Bader should Get a Special section for himself. He wasn't killed, but both his legs had to be amputated and he is now famous. Or is ther a page for famous people injured in air crashes. 86.131.234.128 09:41, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

Uruguay rugby team, 1973, Andes
I remember there was a Uruguayan rugby team crashing in the Andes, on their way to Santiago de Chile. Survivors survived several months in the mountains, through cannibalism. But I don't know enough facts. Anyone? -DePiep 12:26, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Andes flight disaster is the article. I'll use it here. -DePiep 12:28, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Sort order
Some sections are sorted alphabetically by first name, some by last name, some there is no order. I personally prefer by last name...anyone else want to weigh in with their preference before I start sorting? Akradecki 16:20, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Confused me ! I support your comment Akradecki and would agree it should all be sorted on last name. MilborneOne 22:48, 11 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Just another thought - anybody know why some entries give nationality and others dont ? MilborneOne 22:53, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

notability
I propose that, since this is supposed to be a list of well known people, one of the main criteria is that they already have their own WP article. This is essentially a similar criteria to one already in place over at List of notable accidents and incidents on commercial aircraft. Akradecki 14:56, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Vic Morrow
Vic Morrow wasnt actually on an aircraft that crashed. He was killed BY a crashing aircraft (helicopter). Just wanted to clarify that. TruthCrusader 20:26, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

Space programs

 * Near the end of the list, Apollo 1 is listed. Eh?  Do we really think Apollo 1 should be included as an aviation accident?  It was a ground test, in a space capsule that was never intended to be launched.  I'm going to remove it from the list, but I'd be interested in hearing from anyone who disagrees. —Cleared as filed. 02:42, 12 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Challenger and Columbia astronauts could possibly be added. ShelbyBell (talk) 22:59, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

9-11
Were there any deaths of people that wikipedia finds notable due to the 9-11 attacks? I think they should be included. 161.185.151.150 (talk) 21:18, 15 December 2009 (UTC)


 * A good sign would be if they have a wikipedia article and the notability is not just 9-11. Although strictly speaking it was not an accident. MilborneOne (talk) 22:11, 15 December 2009 (UTC)


 * I agree with MilborneOne, the 9/11 attacks weren't accidents. They were incidents, but far from being accidental, they were quite intentional. You could argue that United Airlines Flight 93 was an accident, as it didn't reach its intended destination, but there are no victims of United 93 on this list anyway. Julianhall (talk) 11:09, 31 May 2011 (UTC)

On a separate note, can anyone explain why the three 9/11 planes that did reach their destinations (American Airlines Flight 11, United Airlines Flight 175 and American Airlines Flight 77) are listed as Controlled flight into terrain, when the article itself describes CFIT as "an accident in which an airworthy aircraft, under pilot control, is unintentionally flown into the ground, a mountain, water, or an obstacle." (bold added myself for emphasis)? These were clearly intentional. Julianhall (talk) 11:09, 31 May 2011 (UTC)


 * I am now going to remove the CFIT entries from the 9/11 fatalities in the absence of anyone disagreeing with the point i made above. Julianhall (talk) 12:16, 24 November 2011 (UTC)

Billy Mays
Did he not get hit on the head with luggage in a aviation accident, or is that not a full crash. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.67.63.165 (talk) 03:19, 1 March 2010 (UTC)

Separate list by alphabetical sections, or leave whole
YSSYguy had separated the list into alphabetical sections to make editing it easier. I understand it's difficult to edit a long list such as this and I see why he did it. However, this is a sortable list. Once it's separated, the full list can't be sorted by any of the other columns. To my mind, the article exists for the benefit of the reader, not the editor. I most certainly don't want to start a war over this, and I'd like to see some discussion on it. Thanks! Ironass (talk) 14:37, 2 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Minor point YSSguy just reverted it to what it was before Ironass changed it to a complete list. It is a lot easier to find people in alphabetic sections as most people will be looking for a name. I actually dont see any value in the table being sorted complete or divided. MilborneOne (talk) 16:26, 2 June 2011 (UTC)

This list was much better without the alphabetical sections. People looking for a specific name would have no trouble finding it in the original, sortable list. On the other hand, people looking for the first victim or most recent victims can no longer sort by date. Ironass is correct. All the sort columns are rendered useless with this arrangement. The separate sections for groups are logical and should be retained. The alphabetical divisions for individuals should be removed. (ShelbyBell (talk) 06:56, 4 July 2011 (UTC))

Page move
Dont see any consensus for the page being re-named I shall move it back later but give time for somebody to provide a link to a discussion on the topic, thanks. MilborneOne (talk) 11:51, 4 July 2011 (UTC)

I changed the title to satisfy complaints in the 9-11 discussion section above. The title "List of aviation fatalities" expands the scope beyond "accidents" to include all aviation accidents and incidents. I found this solution preferable to deleting names from the list. (ShelbyBell (talk) 09:33, 9 July 2011 (UTC))


 * It also expands the list to include hundreds of combat deaths! in aviation terms the 9-11 was an accident but if that is in debate then the names should be removed rather than widen the scope of the list. Or you could gain a consensus here to add incidents as a List of fatalities from aviation accidents and incidents may be better, see what others think. MilborneOne (talk) 09:40, 9 July 2011 (UTC)


 * I can agree with "List of fatalities from aviation accidents and incidents". (ShelbyBell (talk) 07:09, 10 July 2011 (UTC))
 * It would seem a reasonable compromise if nobody else objects. MilborneOne (talk) 18:41, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

I reverted a page move by MDEVER802 (was "List of notable people killed in aircraft crashes"). Not all fatalities were a result of crashes (decompression, falls, etc.). If MDEVER802 wants to include "notable" in the proposed title ("List of notable fatalities from aviation accidents and incidents"), I don't object. I would point out that "notable human fatalities" is specified in the text and it may not be necessary to lengthen an already unwieldy title. I favor using the phrase "aviation accidents and incidents" because it is an ICAO phrase and has an associated wikipedia article. It does not limit the cause of death to a "crash". My vote remains "List of fatalities from aviation accidents and incidents". ShelbyBell (talk) 09:18, 27 July 2012 (UTC)
 * We dont use "notable" because by default they must be to be in wikipedia, also the term crashes is a bit tabloid so we normally avoid. The consensus last year was List of fatalities from aviation accidents and incidents did we not move it at the time of consensus? Anyhow I still support it as well. MilborneOne (talk) 17:41, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

Oklahoma State
Maybe someone can add this
 * http://espn.go.com/womens-college-basketball/story/_/id/7250025/oklahoma-state-cowboys-coach-kurt-budke-assistant-miranda-serna-killed-plane-crash

I don't have all the info handy, will try to come back if no one else adds it-- SPhilbrick  T  16:55, 23 November 2011 (UTC)


 * I have added Budke and Branstetter to the list. MilborneOne (talk) 19:18, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

1980 us amateur boxing team dies in Poland shoudl be added
USA Boxing Remembers the Victims of the 1980 Plane Crash; On March 14, 1980, the sport of amateur boxing and the world tragically lost 22 members to a plane crash near Warsaw, Poland. The fourteen boxers and eight staff members aboard the flight, which killed a total of 77 people, were en route to an international event in Poland at the time of the crash.

The team was traveling from New York to Warsaw to compete in two dual events in Cracow and Katowice when the Polish IL-62 jetliner went down just a half a mile from Warsaw's Okecie Airport.

Sunday, March 14, 2010 marked the 30th anniversary of the tragic accident and USA Boxing would like to acknowledge those team members and the sacrifice they made for their country and the love of the sport. Those lost on March 14, 1980 will never be forgotten. http://usaboxing.org/news/2010/03/15/usa-boxing-remembers-the-victims-of-the-1980-plane-crash/34586

Junior was my Uncle. William Balint ```` — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.206.222.240 (talk) 17:03, 22 January 2012 (UTC)


 * Info at LOT Flight 7 MilborneOne (talk) 19:37, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

BLP concerns about this article
BLP policy is fairly clear that recently deceased people are covered by it too in matters that may raise concerns for their survivors. See WP:BDP. My concern is that many of the entries on this page are about fairly recent events. Altho I am not at this time making this a formal RfC, I would like to hear what you all think about how this applies when it comes to referencing events, especially when the cause is listed as pilot error. Stating without reference that an accident was caused by pilot error is an area, I think, where significant concern could be raised among the pilot's survivors and without references, I fear that we may be exposing the Project to some possible liabilities. Comments? Gtwfan52 (talk) 08:40, 8 February 2013 (UTC)


 * I dont really see a problem and I am not sure why you would need an RFC as all entries should be referenced, yesterday or fifty years ago they should all have a citation. MilborneOne (talk) 20:40, 8 February 2013 (UTC)


 * I agree. The problem is that many in this article don't.  And as I said above, unreferenced material about people that could be construed as defamatory is a potential serious problem for Wikipedia.  If it is said here that an accident was caused by pilot error, without attribution, and it wasn't....I think you can see what I mean. Gtwfan52 (talk) 20:49, 8 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Ok, here is a real easy example. The very first entry on Aaliyah.  It is referenced to a dead link at NTSB.  A search of the NTSB site turns up a press release saying that information will be released by Bahamian authorities.  I have no clue as to how to find that, but I am guessing someone does.  After the reference, so presumably unattributed, it states that the pilot was drunk.  That is the kind of thing I am talking about.  Yesterday, someone made an entirely unreferenced entry about the crash that killed Ricky Hendrick, attributing it to pilot error, no reference.  I hope you see what I am talking about.  This is an informative article, but it seems that it is a high maintenance article, and it could use some clean-up, for the safety and integrity of the  Project and the Foundation.  I do not know how to find all the sources on an article like this.  I am asking that someone who does please take a serious look, clean up the unreferenced stuff, and maybe add an edit note or something to discourage addition of unreferenced material?  I just came here to read it and was struck by the number of unreferenced entries.  Thanks! Gtwfan52 (talk) 21:04, 8 February 2013 (UTC)


 * I have removed the drunk bit and added the new referecne, not an excuse but a lot of the entries are linked to referenced article which is probably why people have not bothered to add references. Still dont see a big problem but I will have a look through the article but it may take a few days. Dont think we need a note as having referenced content is standard procedure. If you see any that really concern you either remove them (and perhaps make a note here so we can have a look at them) or tag them as citation needed. MilborneOne (talk) 22:16, 8 February 2013 (UTC)

thanks! Gtwfan52 (talk) 22:22, 8 February 2013 (UTC)

Cause/Circumstance
Many of the causes/circumstances listed are actually links to the accident itself, unlike earlier tables where the primary cause/circumstance is summarized Cabman267 (talk) 01:35, 26 November 2013 (UTC)

Update request
Among the passengers of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 were delegates en route to the 20th International AIDS Conference in Melbourne, including Joep Lange, a former president of the International AIDS Society, which organized the conference. Many initial reports erroneously indicated 100 delegates to the conference were aboard, but this was later revised to six. Also on board were Dutch senator Willem Witteveen, Australian author Liam Davison, and Malaysian actress Shuba Jay. Sander.v.Ginkel (talk) 14:41, 30 July 2014 (UTC)


 * Any victim who is already notable by having a wikipedia article can be added to the article. MilborneOne (talk) 18:55, 30 July 2014 (UTC)


 * I removed the artifical group "Malaysia Airlines Flight 17" we dont normally create a group of individuals for an accident as that is all in the related article, they have no connection other than the sad demise of MH17. MilborneOne (talk) 22:44, 30 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Yes I understand that. Thank you for letting me know. Sander.v.Ginkel (talk) 22:47, 30 July 2014 (UTC)

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Flag question
The flags shown for Abdul Rahim Ghafoorzai of Afghanistan and Frederick Banting, Bill Barilko and George Beurling of Canada (along with the Saskatchewan Roughriders) are the current flags for these two countries, not the flags that were in use when these accidents occurred. Should the flags that are shown in this table be the ones in use when these accidents occurred? Bunkyray5 (talk) 00:53, 8 November 2017 (UTC)
 * I agree with you, the flag should represent those in use at the time of the accident. This practice is already in place for those accidents involving citizens of Nazi Germany, where the red flag with the swastika is shown.  I see no reason not to continue that practice.  Ironass (talk) 16:34, 8 November 2017 (UTC)

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Requested move 22 December 2019

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. 

The result of the move request was: no consensus to move the page to the proposed title at this time, per the discussion below. Dekimasu よ! 06:01, 29 December 2019 (UTC)

List of fatalities from aviation accidents → List of fatalities from aviation accidents and incidents – For consistency with other articles on this topic which use "accidents and incidents" in the title. 64222368Z260O (talk) 00:07, 22 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Support – seems like a sensible idea to me. I'm all for consistency, unless there are good reasons not to implement it. --Deeday-UK (talk) 11:13, 22 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Oppose - If there are some fatalities, and that's the topic of this article, it is an accident. Wykx  (talk) 11:20, 22 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Oppose. By definition, if there is a fatality it is an accident and not an incident. Therefore, there is no incidents listed here. -- Tavix ( talk ) 20:28, 22 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Just to note that some incidents (like terrorism or hijacks) can have fatalities. MilborneOne (talk) 20:31, 22 December 2019 (UTC)
 * If there is a fatality, it's an accident. Per the article: an accident is...an occurrence associated with the operation of an aircraft, which takes place from the time any person boards the aircraft with the intention of flight until all such persons have disembarked, and in which a) a person is fatally or seriously injured... -- Tavix ( talk ) 20:40, 22 December 2019 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.