Talk:List of works by Akira Toriyama

Proposed merge of Akira Toriyama with List of Akira Toriyama's works
No consensus to split, and this is a poorly sourced WP:CFORK, that doesn't demonstrate why it meets the criteria for a separate list. Joseph2302 (talk) 19:40, 8 March 2024 (UTC)


 * weak support. The list is not unreasonably long and can fit within the main article, which itself is not particularly long, and its "works" section needs expanding. Ideophagous (talk) 20:46, 8 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Oppose. I think all those tables and lists are better in a separate article instead of the main page. -- Mazewaxie ( talk  •  contribs ) 22:13, 8 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Oppose: I think the page should not be merged to Akira Toriyama's article since it might need some work on this article and it might be too much in Akira Toriyama's article. DigiPen92 (talk) 08:36, 9 March 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose It fits longstanding precedent for such lists at Category:Works by artist. It also passes WP:NLIST as Toriyama himself is notable as an artist, so I don't see an evident reason to reverse the split. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 08:37, 9 March 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose per ZXCVBNM. S5A-0043 Talk 08:56, 9 March 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose per Mazewaxie Exclusive Editor  Notify Me! 10:03, 9 March 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose per the others. Also I'm gonna be bold and remove the banner in light of the overwhelming consensus here.—indopug (talk) 12:42, 9 March 2024 (UTC)

Ultimate
Alright, lets see if we can get this resolved. To start with a minor issue, I am baffled at the issue on your end, Xfansd, and would suggest that maybe your game is not up to date. (If it is, then I have no idea what the issue is and have no further useful suggestions.) Regardless, a Google search shows evidence that Toriyama's name is in the credits: IMDb, MetaCritic, Moby Games, SmashWiki (which has the Credits in order), Super Mario Wiki (Also in order), and tweets on Twitter. None of these are considered to be useable sources on Wikipedia, with the exceptions of Twitter in very select cases| and MetaCritic, which I thought was GREL, but apparently has restrictions. While none of this is useable, including MetaCritic apparently, I hope it does help to show the possibility that Toriyama is in the credits and encourage a second look.

For the more important side of this situation, I would like to point out WP:CITEIMDB as I came across it when checking IMDb's reliability at WP:IMDB. CITEIMDB implies that a name in the credits of a work should be fine as a source: "For released films, citations are typically not necessary because the film itself is implied to be the primary source." Given that both are visual media and published works, it makes sense to me to treat Ultimate's credits as a primary source. This

Regarding the claim that we should not include Ultimate because, we don't know if all of the work in Ultimate is just old designs. Honestly, as far as I know we should not be trying to determine Toriyama's contribution in Ultimate based only on what we think is the case based on my understanding of WP:NOR and WP:PSTS. Regardless of even if we do, I still struggle to see how this would require us to exclude it when we also give a general credit to the Dragon Quest series for the same artwork. --Super Goku V (talk) 06:41, 14 March 2024 (UTC)
 * As you said those are not reliable sources, most are wikis anyone can edit. But did you notice the part in the Moby Games link where it says he is "uncredited"? These are two different YouTube vids of the credits of the game, and, which you and anyone else can study multiple times like I have. I don't know why he and the other DQ creators are not in the credits, seems to me like legally they'd have to be. I am worried that I am making some kind of simple mistake, like I'm looking up the wrong game even. But I did the due diligence of literally watching the credits too many times. And it doesn't seem like there's an RS supporting the credit either. I suggested it might be because of the DLC aspect, as in maybe they don't appear in the credits until you unlock/buy/download the relevant characters. You shot that down, although now suggest the version of the game could be outdated. But that's an assumption, so that means I can assume this 2021 upload would have the relevant info for the July 2019 DQ DLC, and Toriyama is still not listed. I also found it interesting that this vid advertising the DQ characters from the official Super Smash Bros. channel does not credit Toriyama/Bird Studio either, only Square Enix, despite it specifically being written as credit for the characters seen in the vid.


 * If Toriyama did new work for the game it would have been widely reported, and you'd be able to find a reliable source for it. You also claim the credit is under the "Original Game Supervisors" section; which to me seems to refer to the games that Smash Bros. takes characters from. With no RS to state otherwise, I don't think it's a leap to state the Super Smash Bros. Ultimate credit, if it does exist, is due only to it including his old DQ designs. Therefore, it is exactly because we already give general credit to the DQ series that I just don't see any reason to give this specific game a separate entry, even if there is an RS. Cause that means it's already covered. Xfansd (talk) 23:29, 14 March 2024 (UTC)
 * (Whoops, thought I had replied to this already) Regarding the Moby Games like, I only saw a cut off version as I didn't see the "All Games" link until now.  That is Interesting and a good point as I don't get why they say that, but it is a fact that they say he is uncredited.  Regarding the credits, I didn't think about Adventure Mode having its own credits, which seems to be why we are having issues.  I have been citing the credits from the Help section in the dashboard.  I would need to finish Adventure Mode to compare on my end.
 * From my end, I don't have the DLC and am on Ver. 13.0.2. But, yeah, it was an assumption that maybe the version matters.  Though, I would not be surprised if there is more than one set of credits now.
 * As for the last part, I still think it is possible that Toriyama could have provided some new work for the game that went under the radar. But, having thought about it, it does seem to make more sense to exclude Ultimate since there is no proof that any new material was created for it.  Not to mention that Original Game Supervisors likely refers to the Dragon Quest credits.  --Super Goku V (talk) 04:51, 21 March 2024 (UTC)